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On May 10 2014 23:39 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2014 23:08 Ghanburighan wrote:
Details about tomorrow's `referendum':
This is especially bad:
Hardly surprising to be honest. If they found 100k of these, I guess there is still about 2.9m left somewhere. Afterall the results will have to say 99.5% in favor, right?
Putin calling for a delay of it, USA and EU condemning the election, insufficient time and unbiased information for the people and several small hints that the election will be completely opaque and without any credible observers. This is just another brick in the wall. Of course russian media have a reason, claiming the voting started early:
source
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So much for fair votes i suppose. Guess no need to discuss after the referendum for "riggedness" etc, like we had to on the crimea referendum - it's pretty clear now that the outcome tomorrow will most likely be bullshit.
Voting in moscow, how can that be official anyway? Wouldn't they need some kind of russian approval to hold "votes" there?
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On May 10 2014 23:53 Mc wrote:@Ghan nice link you posted ( votes)Are the guys dead? Seems like : plastic bags on head + not moving = suggests dead.
Its unlikely they are dead, the video starts of by someone of camera saying why you keep moving around while laughing.
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The vote itself is ridiculous. Administrative regions aren't sovereign. People can't just occupy buildings and claim independent republics left and right.
Well obviously they can, but no country would accept that as legitimate.
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Well obviously they can, but no country would accept that as legitimate.
Well.. We'll see about that. There's countries who gladly accepted the crimea referendum, i don't see why russia would act different on this one.
Maybe they'll prove me wrong.
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On May 11 2014 00:41 Nyxisto wrote:
The vote itself is ridiculous. Administrative regions aren't sovereign. People can't just occupy buildings and claim independent republics left and right.
Well obviously they can, but no country would accept that as legitimate.
Some countries accepted the Crimean referendum as legitimate, but we all know it was fake. Even the Kremlin released numbers that were massively different just recently about it (only 30% of people participated, and only 50-60% of those people voted in favor, as opposed to the claims of 97% approval with 80%+ participation), but they still accepted them into their country.
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Sure, the usual suspects accepted the vote as legitimate. If Russia thinks Syria and North Korea are great partners for the 21st century, well then that's their decision. The really troublesome part is that Russia is practically rendering international diplomacy that has been build up over decades meaningless. The Western nations can't enforce anything against Russia so everyone's just sitting there "yeah, I guess we don't accept the referendum" while Russia is gobbling up territory and weird satellite states are popping up all over ex-soviet territory.
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On May 10 2014 21:17 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2014 21:13 sgtnoobkilla wrote:On May 10 2014 18:58 kukarachaa wrote:
Red cross official statement, some members were detained for a couple hours, everyone is unharmed. Harmed or not, there is still no legal precedent for the separatists to arrest them for any period of time. Separatists are arresting/intimidating anyone how is foreign with seemingly no regard for affiliation or reason. It perfectly fits into the picture they are painting of themselves.
Being openly Ukrainian is even worse than being foreign, the former are being beaten, kidnapped, tortured and killed.
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On May 11 2014 00:54 Saryph wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2014 00:41 Nyxisto wrote:
The vote itself is ridiculous. Administrative regions aren't sovereign. People can't just occupy buildings and claim independent republics left and right.
Well obviously they can, but no country would accept that as legitimate. Some countries accepted the Crimean referendum as legitimate, but we all know it was fake. Even the Kremlin released numbers that were massively different just recently about it (only 30% of people participated, and only 50-60% of those people voted in favor, as opposed to the claims of 97% approval with 80%+ participation), but they still accepted them into their country.
No idea where you took these numbers from. But reality is that the vast of majority of ppl in Crimea wanted it and happy now, its just a fact. Well maybe only way for you to verify it, would be to visit Creamea youself and ask ppl. You can theorize forever.
But you dont speak russian, and also so far from the region, so you cant get first source information. So western media and other ppl can manipulate your opinion as they want. So you are easy to jump on "russia-hate" train.
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On May 11 2014 02:06 promiseme wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2014 00:54 Saryph wrote:On May 11 2014 00:41 Nyxisto wrote:
The vote itself is ridiculous. Administrative regions aren't sovereign. People can't just occupy buildings and claim independent republics left and right.
Well obviously they can, but no country would accept that as legitimate. Some countries accepted the Crimean referendum as legitimate, but we all know it was fake. Even the Kremlin released numbers that were massively different just recently about it (only 30% of people participated, and only 50-60% of those people voted in favor, as opposed to the claims of 97% approval with 80%+ participation), but they still accepted them into their country. No idea where you took these numbers from. But reality is that the vast of majority of ppl in Crimea wanted it and happy now, its just a fact. Well maybe only way for you to verify it, would be to visit Creamea youself and ask ppl. You can theorize forever. But you dont speak russian, and also so far from the region, so you cant get first source information. So western media and other ppl can manipulate your opinion as they want. So you are easy to jump on "russia-hate" train.
http://www.president-sovet.ru/structure/gruppa_po_migratsionnoy_politike/materialy/problemy_zhiteley_kryma.php
Okay, Let's post it again! Is that source Russian enough?
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Russian Federation1953 Posts
i already explained about that council - opposition heavens, they will say anything to please USA and EU
by the way - their "reseach" based only on claims they did this research
no data about how many ppl were polled, where, when etc.
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oh yeah, the 'council under the President of the Russian federation' the well known vassal of the Western imperialists! There really is no hope for you PaleMan
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Russian Federation1953 Posts
On May 11 2014 02:31 Nyxisto wrote:
oh yeah, the 'council under the President of the Russian federation' the well known vassal of the Western imperialists! There really is no hope for you PaleMan
we have democracy here, surprize for you!
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Paleman, so why are the articles on http://www.president-sovet.ru generally pro-Russian? I actually looked at them, and they in general voiced the Kremlin's viewpoint...
It's really pathetic when someone has to resort to actual *lies* to support their point of view.
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On May 11 2014 02:32 PaleMan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2014 02:31 Nyxisto wrote:
oh yeah, the 'council under the President of the Russian federation' the well known vassal of the Western imperialists! There really is no hope for you PaleMan we have democracy here, surprize for you!
No you don't. As a german it's quiet easy to tell the difference between what soviet "democracy" is or what real democracy is because we have about 16 million people who witnessed former and about 66 million people who witnessed the latter.
I don't have any problem with a country being not democratic because I don't think it is the best for every country at least at this time but it pisses me off that people pretend do be democratic when even their own government says that they aren not. It's an abuse of the own population and I don't get why people are fine with that.
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On May 11 2014 02:49 Influ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2014 02:32 PaleMan wrote:On May 11 2014 02:31 Nyxisto wrote:
oh yeah, the 'council under the President of the Russian federation' the well known vassal of the Western imperialists! There really is no hope for you PaleMan we have democracy here, surprize for you! No you don't. As a german it's quiet easy to tell the difference between what soviet "democracy" is or what real democracy is because we have about 16 million people who witnessed former and about 66 million people who witnessed the latter. I don't have any problem with a country being not democratic because I don't think it is the best for every country at least at this time but it pisses me off that people pretend do be democratic when even their own government says that they aren not. It's an abuse of the own population and I don't get why people are fine with that.
Because they'd rather lie(to themselves) than admit that they're living in a shitty country, many people from the GDR are like that.
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I don't think there is a reason to call a country shitty just because it has not the same democratic structures like for example we have in Germany but i understand what you mean.
Putin once said himself that Russia isn't made for democracy and I don't think western europeans have the right to look down on that the same as I think Russians don't have the right to look down on democratic nations as weaklings and abuse them.
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On May 11 2014 03:00 Influ wrote:
I don't think there is a reason to call a country shitty just because it has not the same democratic structures like for example we have in Germany but i understand what you mean.
Putin once said himself that Russia isn't made for democracy and I don't think western europeans have the right to look down on that the same as I think Russians don't have the right to look down on democratic nations as weaklings and abuse them.
No one is abusing these countries tho. That's the narrative the people have in their heads, because they can't handle the cognitive dissonance that would occur if they'd admit that the fault is within the system they're living in and that would mean that they're partly responsible for it and that they'd need to fix it. So every time something is not going so well they're pointing their fingers at the US, the EU or the Freemasons because these are the real evil guys who keep everyone from being happy and rich.
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So Dmitry Rogozin, who is the Deputy Prime Minister of Russia (and head of the Military-Industrial Commission) is on the list of sanctioned persons. He was trying to leave Transnistria and the Romanian government refused to allow him to use their airspace. He then decided to try to fly over Ukrainian airspace and was turned around by Ukrainian fighter jets.
Anyway, he sent out some interesting messages which you really have to wonder about:
The link in that leads to this message:
Dmitry Rogozin · @DRogozin
10th May 2014 from TwitLonger
Upon the US request Romania has closed its air space for my plane. Ukraine doesn't allow me to pass through again. Next time I'll fly on board TU-160
By the way a TU-160 is a Russian strategic bomber.
as well as this one:
Twitter is stupid and everything, but it really seems unprofessional for a deputy prime minister to make such threats, especially considering the circumstances.
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Romanian MFA already demanded clarifications, or rather the promised "explanations".
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EPT
