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On May 10 2014 04:05 PaleMan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2014 03:55 hunts wrote:On May 10 2014 03:31 Cheerio wrote:On May 10 2014 03:22 soujiro_ wrote:
maybe the priest happen to run in front of a checkpoint or was a provocateur so he was still running after 7 shots or what? I think he's being sarcastic and saying that to show how silly the pro russian propaganda people's statements usually are. At least I sincerely hope so. I'm curious why the separatists still fight after the last agreement, I guess putin only publically said he wanted the fighting to stop for now and in private told them to keep doing it to make the government look like the bad guys for his propaganda machine. On a side note, I really wish I could still read/write russian since there are so many more sources in russian writing than just audio. those 2 cars - yeah, happy family drives 2 cars at once and cars are of caliber of "some businessman with security" class at least in Russia when you see 2 cars like these in your rear-view mirror on the road u beetter take right side of the road, cause there are some "serious" men inside and definitely not happy family
so what's your point exactly? "Serious" businessmen don't have families? Or they just don't take them along when they go places?
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Russian Federation1953 Posts
On May 10 2014 04:16 Cheerio wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2014 04:05 PaleMan wrote:On May 10 2014 03:55 hunts wrote:On May 10 2014 03:31 Cheerio wrote:On May 10 2014 03:22 soujiro_ wrote:
maybe the priest happen to run in front of a checkpoint or was a provocateur so he was still running after 7 shots or what? I think he's being sarcastic and saying that to show how silly the pro russian propaganda people's statements usually are. At least I sincerely hope so. I'm curious why the separatists still fight after the last agreement, I guess putin only publically said he wanted the fighting to stop for now and in private told them to keep doing it to make the government look like the bad guys for his propaganda machine. On a side note, I really wish I could still read/write russian since there are so many more sources in russian writing than just audio. those 2 cars - yeah, happy family drives 2 cars at once and cars are of caliber of "some businessman with security" class at least in Russia when you see 2 cars like these in your rear-view mirror on the road u beetter take right side of the road, cause there are some "serious" men inside and definitely not happy family so what's your point exactly? "Serious" businessmen don't have families? Or they just don't take them along when they go places?
my point: give me evidence about family
for example i think there were some Ukrainian Army commanders in there - how about that?
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On May 10 2014 04:22 PaleMan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2014 04:16 Cheerio wrote:On May 10 2014 04:05 PaleMan wrote:On May 10 2014 03:55 hunts wrote:On May 10 2014 03:31 Cheerio wrote:On May 10 2014 03:22 soujiro_ wrote:
maybe the priest happen to run in front of a checkpoint or was a provocateur so he was still running after 7 shots or what? I think he's being sarcastic and saying that to show how silly the pro russian propaganda people's statements usually are. At least I sincerely hope so. I'm curious why the separatists still fight after the last agreement, I guess putin only publically said he wanted the fighting to stop for now and in private told them to keep doing it to make the government look like the bad guys for his propaganda machine. On a side note, I really wish I could still read/write russian since there are so many more sources in russian writing than just audio. those 2 cars - yeah, happy family drives 2 cars at once and cars are of caliber of "some businessman with security" class at least in Russia when you see 2 cars like these in your rear-view mirror on the road u beetter take right side of the road, cause there are some "serious" men inside and definitely not happy family so what's your point exactly? "Serious" businessmen don't have families? Or they just don't take them along when they go places? my point: give me evidence about family for example i think there were some Ukrainian Army commanders in there - how about that?
That's called the devil's proof fallacy. The article states it was a man, woman, and child. Following your logic I believe that putin is actually hitler resurrected as a zombie, prove to me that he isn't. do you see how silly that kind of claim is?
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Russian Federation1953 Posts
On May 10 2014 04:24 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2014 04:22 PaleMan wrote:On May 10 2014 04:16 Cheerio wrote:On May 10 2014 04:05 PaleMan wrote:On May 10 2014 03:55 hunts wrote:On May 10 2014 03:31 Cheerio wrote:On May 10 2014 03:22 soujiro_ wrote:
maybe the priest happen to run in front of a checkpoint or was a provocateur so he was still running after 7 shots or what? I think he's being sarcastic and saying that to show how silly the pro russian propaganda people's statements usually are. At least I sincerely hope so. I'm curious why the separatists still fight after the last agreement, I guess putin only publically said he wanted the fighting to stop for now and in private told them to keep doing it to make the government look like the bad guys for his propaganda machine. On a side note, I really wish I could still read/write russian since there are so many more sources in russian writing than just audio. those 2 cars - yeah, happy family drives 2 cars at once and cars are of caliber of "some businessman with security" class at least in Russia when you see 2 cars like these in your rear-view mirror on the road u beetter take right side of the road, cause there are some "serious" men inside and definitely not happy family so what's your point exactly? "Serious" businessmen don't have families? Or they just don't take them along when they go places? my point: give me evidence about family for example i think there were some Ukrainian Army commanders in there - how about that? That's called the devil's proof fallacy. The article states it was a man, woman, and child. Following your logic I believe that putin is actually hitler resurrected as a zombie, prove to me that he isn't. do you see how silly that kind of claim is?
considering how blatant Kiev and Avakov can lie, I don't believe em anymore
earlier Avakov said that in Odessa "pro-russian separatist" burned THEMSELVES in those house
yeah, sure
now family rides in 2 jeep cars - gimme a break
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Two identical jeeps with tinted windows, try to run through a military check point in a conflict zone. Call me paranoid, but it seems to me there is a hell of lot more to this story, than a family going on vacation.
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Russian Federation1953 Posts
On May 10 2014 04:34 kukarachaa wrote:
Two identical jeeps with tinted windows, try to run through a military check point in a conflict zone. Call me paranoid, but it seems to me there is a hell of lot more to this story, than a family going on vacation.
exactly
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On May 10 2014 04:34 kukarachaa wrote:
Two identical jeeps with tinted windows, try to run through a military check point in a conflict zone. Call me paranoid, but it seems to me there is a hell of lot more to this story, than a family going on vacation.
There is. According to the rumors the incident happened in the night around 2:00 AM. The family was leaving Ukraine and heading to Russia fearing the escalation of conflict. Presumably they had a large sum of money. They passed the first block post and didn't stop. On the next one their cars got shot down. But those are rumors.
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I am ashamed to admit it, but I unfortunately do agree with Paleman - two very expensive jeeps with tinted windows makes it somewhat surprising that it was a family riding in the car. I have no idea which story is true, but I could see it go either way, and unless I see some more reliable sources, I'll lean towards the Russian side.
I believe there is some false propaganda coming from *some* of the Ukrainian side. It would be surprising, given the emotions/conflict and the fact that Russia is lying out of it's ass, that some Ukrainian's wouldn't counter with their own propaganda/lies. Or maybe just pass off rumours as fact in the news.
Clearly it's not right to spread false propaganda, but this doesn't really change the situation. Russia is clearly trying to destabilize Ukraine and provoke ethnic violence. The separatists are a bunch of violent thugs, and some of them are murderous criminals. Ukraine's army acting against them is justified, but will unfortunately result in the death of civilians and will farther alienate a large amount of E. Ukrainians. The situation in E. Ukraine sucks right now, and the chief culprit is Russia for which it deserves alienation, sanctions, and the bad reputation that it has garnered through out the world.
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Good article on (Ukrainian and Russian views of) the roll of western tax havens in Ukrainian and Russian corruption and how it's hurting the old cold war image of the west as supporters of democracy and freedom.
How offshore finance sunk western soft power
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On May 10 2014 04:29 PaleMan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2014 04:24 hunts wrote:On May 10 2014 04:22 PaleMan wrote:On May 10 2014 04:16 Cheerio wrote:On May 10 2014 04:05 PaleMan wrote:On May 10 2014 03:55 hunts wrote:On May 10 2014 03:31 Cheerio wrote:On May 10 2014 03:22 soujiro_ wrote:
maybe the priest happen to run in front of a checkpoint or was a provocateur so he was still running after 7 shots or what? I think he's being sarcastic and saying that to show how silly the pro russian propaganda people's statements usually are. At least I sincerely hope so. I'm curious why the separatists still fight after the last agreement, I guess putin only publically said he wanted the fighting to stop for now and in private told them to keep doing it to make the government look like the bad guys for his propaganda machine. On a side note, I really wish I could still read/write russian since there are so many more sources in russian writing than just audio. those 2 cars - yeah, happy family drives 2 cars at once and cars are of caliber of "some businessman with security" class at least in Russia when you see 2 cars like these in your rear-view mirror on the road u beetter take right side of the road, cause there are some "serious" men inside and definitely not happy family so what's your point exactly? "Serious" businessmen don't have families? Or they just don't take them along when they go places? my point: give me evidence about family for example i think there were some Ukrainian Army commanders in there - how about that? That's called the devil's proof fallacy. The article states it was a man, woman, and child. Following your logic I believe that putin is actually hitler resurrected as a zombie, prove to me that he isn't. do you see how silly that kind of claim is? considering how blatant Kiev and Avakov can lie, I don't believe em anymore earlier Avakov said that in Odessa "pro-russian separatist" burned THEMSELVES in those house yeah, sure now family rides in 2 jeep cars - gimme a break
LMFAO. "Considering how blatant kiev and avakov can lie" Yet you watch your russian propaganda and refuse to ecnknowledge how many of their stories are blatantly made up, and those that aren't completely fake are a complete twist on reality anyway.
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On May 10 2014 04:54 Dapper_Cad wrote:Good article on (Ukrainian and Russian views of) the roll of western tax havens in Ukrainian and Russian corruption and how it's hurting the old cold war image of the west as supporters of democracy and freedom. How offshore finance sunk western soft power
Really good article. It probably should back up some of those huge numbers, but it's a problem regardless if it's a trillion or 20 trillions dollars. It seems like Western countries/politicians forget about morals until shit gets really bad.
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On May 10 2014 04:48 Mc wrote:
I am ashamed to admit it, but I unfortunately do agree with Paleman - two very expensive jeeps with tinted windows makes it somewhat surprising that it was a family riding in the car. I have no idea which story is true, but I could see it go either way, and unless I see some more reliable sources, I'll lean towards the Russian side.
Which is? A family can't ride two expensive cars, so that makes the story false?
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I don't get it. The story is that the russian armed seperatists are setting up armed checkpoints on roads and gunning people down.
Anyhow, those cars are pretty normal, it makes sense that a family that owns 2 cars fleeing the area and loaded with valuables would want to run through checkpoints.
Edit: Btw cheerio, you need to make it clearer if your picture represent the family or the priest.
Edit: Yes, you should link article please.
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It just seems suspicious to me. I did say that it go either way and we have no evidence- you didn't post the article. So without evidence, I just go with my gut feeling. As I said, it could go either way with it. Also I explain in the later part of my post (which you didn't quote), why I feel that it's possible that it was false information. And just because I hate what the Russians/separatists are doing, doesn't mean I have to believe everything coming from the pro-Ukraine side - I support them, but it's a complex/emotionally tense and violent situation - bound to be exaggerated/made-up things said from both sides.
Could you link the article/evidence?
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On May 10 2014 03:55 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2014 03:31 Cheerio wrote:On May 10 2014 03:22 soujiro_ wrote:
maybe the priest happen to run in front of a checkpoint or was a provocateur so he was still running after 7 shots or what? + Show Spoiler +I think he's being sarcastic and saying that to show how silly the pro russian propaganda people's statements usually are. At least I sincerely hope so.
I'm curious why the separatists still fight after the last agreement, I guess putin only publically said he wanted the fighting to stop for now and in private told them to keep doing it to make the government look like the bad guys for his propaganda machine. On a side note, I really wish I could still read/write russian since there are so many more sources in russian writing than just audio.
Interpretermag's Ukraine liveblog is your friend.
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Russia’s actions in Ukraine clearly violate the Geneva ConventionsDavid B. Rivkin Jr. and Lee A. Casey are partners in the Washington office of Baker & Hostetler; they served in the Justice Department under presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush. While Russia’s aggression against Ukraine tramples the United Nations charter, Moscow gets a free ride on its other transgressions of international law. Few have focused, for instance, on how Russia’s military operations in Ukraine violate the 1949 Geneva Conventions. The failure to challenge this misconduct is profoundly wrong and damages the integrity of this whole body of law. Read the rest here.
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On May 10 2014 05:03 Mc wrote:Really good article. It probably should back up some of those huge numbers, but it's a problem regardless if it's a trillion or 20 trillions dollars. It seems like Western countries/politicians forget about morals until shit gets really bad.
Tax havens and tax evasion are getting more and more frawned upon in EU and USA. Don't get me wrong, there are countries whose economy is build around tax evasion and transfer prizing but it is getting easier to track those purporting it in these "interconnected tubes"-times.
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On May 10 2014 02:30 mortales wrote:
When you don't know whom to blame think about who has profit from it. I am not very interested in politics and don't have much details, but I don't see who could have run all this but USA (it obviously couldn't run by itself, would be too naive to think so) and I don't see what profit Russia could get from taking a part in this conflict. I mean, it obviously doesn't worth it condsidering only material things.
What is it about the old USSR mindset that convinces people that the US suddenly wants any part of Ukraine and its horde of ex-soviet turnip farmers?
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On May 10 2014 05:54 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2014 02:30 mortales wrote:
When you don't know whom to blame think about who has profit from it. I am not very interested in politics and don't have much details, but I don't see who could have run all this but USA (it obviously couldn't run by itself, would be too naive to think so) and I don't see what profit Russia could get from taking a part in this conflict. I mean, it obviously doesn't worth it condsidering only material things. What is it about the old USSR mindset that convinces people that the US suddenly wants any part of Ukraine and its horde of ex-soviet turnip farmers?
you gotta understand, the USA not only bestrides the world like a colossus, it also is so godly that all other countries and peoples simply cannot act on their own initiative, they can only react to the machinations of the USA. and they have no interests of their own or motivation to pursue them independent of the USA. USA starts everything, USA responsible for everything, people of the world unite to stop USA controlling everything because obviously it does. that is how powerful and hungry for control the USA must be to accept what the "USSR mindset" says.
at least until their rage gets loose then the USA is a bunch of weak fat stupids.
(if the USA really possessed such power then i'm pretty sure the past ten years of world history would be well kind of very different)
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On May 10 2014 06:04 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2014 05:54 Jormundr wrote:On May 10 2014 02:30 mortales wrote:
When you don't know whom to blame think about who has profit from it. I am not very interested in politics and don't have much details, but I don't see who could have run all this but USA (it obviously couldn't run by itself, would be too naive to think so) and I don't see what profit Russia could get from taking a part in this conflict. I mean, it obviously doesn't worth it condsidering only material things. What is it about the old USSR mindset that convinces people that the US suddenly wants any part of Ukraine and its horde of ex-soviet turnip farmers? you gotta understand, the USA not only bestrides the world like a colossus, it also is so godly that all other countries and peoples simply cannot act on their own initiative, they can only react to the machinations of the USA. and they have no interests of their own or motivation to pursue them independent of the USA. USA starts everything, USA responsible for everything, people of the world unite to stop USA controlling everything because obviously it does. that is how powerful and hungry for control the USA must be to accept what the "USSR mindset" says. at least until their rage gets loose then the USA is a bunch of weak fat stupids.
You have it the other way round, if some countries tell their people long enough that thinking by yourself is evil, they start believing it, and also think that freethinking is impossible in other countries as well.
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EPT
