They have that too. Fascism is in essence ultranationalism + victim complex + authoritarian government + murderous intent against the people who "wronged" you. That's basically what we have here.
To be quiet honest, that sounds a bit like you're describing russia. You have the victim complex (the west! the WEST!), you obviously have an authoritarian government, the murderous intent, well.. Maybe not official from the kreml, but we all know that people in russia do want to pay back the US for whatever - and ultranationalism? I'd say yes, you might disagree - but at least in terms of nationalism there should be no discussion.
Would you say russia is a fascist country?
That's basically what makes it so ridiculous. Sure the Ukrainian government is not the best government the world has ever seen, but the whole fascist critique coming from Russia, which is ruled by the same person for what, 16 years now?(including the funny tandem maneuver) Who speaks of 'holy Russian soil' when talking about Crimea and is renationalizing Russia's economy as well as fighting liberalism/a civil middle class like it's a disease. Come on.
They have that too. Fascism is in essence ultranationalism + victim complex + authoritarian government + murderous intent against the people who "wronged" you. That's basically what we have here.
To be quiet honest, that sounds a bit like you're describing russia. You have the victim complex (the west! the WEST!), you obviously have an authoritarian government, the murderous intent, well.. Maybe not official from the kreml, but we all know that people in russia do want to pay back the US for whatever - and ultranationalism? I'd say yes, you might disagree - but at least in terms of nationalism there should be no discussion.
Would you say russia is a fascist country?
That's basically what makes it so ridiculous. Sure the Ukrainian government is not the best government the world has ever seen, but the whole fascist critique coming from Russia, which is ruled by the same person for what, 16 years now?(including the funny tandem maneuver) Who speaks of 'holy Russian soil' when talking about Crimea and is renationalizing Russia's economy as well as fighting liberalism/a civil middle class like it's a disease. Come on.
They have that too. Fascism is in essence ultranationalism + victim complex + authoritarian government + murderous intent against the people who "wronged" you. That's basically what we have here.
To be quiet honest, that sounds a bit like you're describing russia. You have the victim complex (the west! the WEST!), you obviously have an authoritarian government, the murderous intent, well.. Maybe not official from the kreml, but we all know that people in russia do want to pay back the US for whatever - and ultranationalism? I'd say yes, you might disagree - but at least in terms of nationalism there should be no discussion.
Would you say russia is a fascist country?
That's basically what makes it so ridiculous. Sure the Ukrainian government is not the best government the world has ever seen, but the whole fascist critique coming from Russia, which is ruled by the same person for what, 16 years now?(including the funny tandem maneuver) Who speaks of 'holy Russian soil' when talking about Crimea and is renationalizing Russia's economy as well as fighting liberalism/a civil middle class like it's a disease. Come on.
Looks like russian provocateur to me. Yelling things at those guys, calling them names, and advancing on them as a crowd. On top of that You can hear the guy talking about people being wounded but can't see any, and you can see some guy walking just fine then falls and throws what he's carrying without any shots being fired, so I have to question the legitimacy of that video.
The soldiers where at the risk of being overtaken by a hostile mob, the one who got shot was running at them directly. But what the f*** were they doing over there? Did they really need to cross the avenue right there at that very moment? It was pretty much guaranteed that some idiot would run at them asking to be shot. That's not how you deescalate.
That video sems...very wierd? The guy in blue running over rolled over at the third shot, presuming that the previous shots were warning shots, and it doesn't really look like he has been shot at all, and then the video decides to focus on the soldiers retreating, with that man mysteriously disappears, as if he wouldn't be the focus of any video being shot.
When you don't know whom to blame think about who has profit from it. I am not very interested in politics and don't have much details, but I don't see who could have run all this but USA (it obviously couldn't run by itself, would be too naive to think so) and I don't see what profit Russia could get from taking a part in this conflict. I mean, it obviously doesn't worth it condsidering only material things.
What are you talking about mortales. So, you don't have much details or interest, yet you have a speculation? Running what exactly? You don't seem very clear on anything.
On May 10 2014 02:30 mortales wrote: When you don't know whom to blame think about who has profit from it. I am not very interested in politics and don't have much details, but I don't see who could have run all this but USA (it obviously couldn't run by itself, would be too naive to think so) and I don't see what profit Russia could get from taking a part in this conflict. I mean, it obviously doesn't worth it condsidering only material things.
Russia took over Crimea. Russia has never directly critizised the rebels in the east, while massively critizising the government in Kyiv. The russian media have been extraordinarily partisan to the point of propaganda. Russian citizens from Russia have in several instances been identified among the rebels. Lavrov has several times reiterated that an "attack on russian citizens abroad is an attack on the Russian Federation".
Stopping EUs expansion and keeping NATO out of Ukraine and keeping Ukraine as a state from being indepted to other parties has been Putins mantra. Russia wants a government in Ukraine who listens to Russias demands and that is not happening atm. Same is true if Poroshenko gets elected.
Splitting Ukraine is the only solution for Russia, whether through a negotiated heavy federalisation or spawning a new country by force. Saying that Russia could not get anything out of participating lacks considerably in contextual understanding.
Yep, what Russia has to gain here looks rather obvious. Russia has been creating frozen conflicts for a very long time now. Ukraine is hamstrung , can't associate with the West as they planned to and Putin is a happy camper right now.
It's basically the consequence of Russia's failure to modernize the country. All they have to maintain their sphere of influence are resource exports on which their neighbouring nations heavily depend and the threat of military force
No, but the USA can exploit Ukraine's massive grain output to fuel the downfall of the great Russia!!! CIA is clearly behind the coup and installing the fascist junta. Just look at all the aid the US gave to Ukraine since the downfall of communism. Also Snipers! Also Fire! Die Fascists.
On May 09 2014 19:27 Cheerio wrote: Under Lugansk two Toyota FJ Cruiser cars were sprayed with gunfire after failing to stop at separatist's checkpost. A female and male driving the cars (husband and wife) were shot dead. Their 10 year old daughter who was in one of the cars was hospitalized and is in a critical condition.
On May 09 2014 21:26 Cheerio wrote: Separatists killed a priest in Konstantinovka (Donetsk oblast) according to Donetsk news source OstroV chief editor, Sergey Garmash. + Show Spoiler +
According to a local rumor the priest lived near the separatistic blockpost and went to talk sense into them. They didn't want to listen
Information was confirmed by General Prosecutor Office in Kyiv. Images of cars: + Show Spoiler +
The priest was a local 44 year old Otec Pavel of a local Orthodox church, he was shot eight times. According to Sergey Garmash he was shot by chechens [who are predominantly Muslim].
A demotivator on a Lugansk internet community page (around 22,5 thousands members), which says: Didn't think I would live to see Germany beg Russia not to wage war against Ukraine.
On May 10 2014 03:22 soujiro_ wrote: maybe the priest happen to run in front of a checkpoint or was a provocateur
so he was still running after 7 shots or what?
I think he's being sarcastic and saying that to show how silly the pro russian propaganda people's statements usually are. At least I sincerely hope so.
I'm curious why the separatists still fight after the last agreement, I guess putin only publically said he wanted the fighting to stop for now and in private told them to keep doing it to make the government look like the bad guys for his propaganda machine.
On a side note, I really wish I could still read/write russian since there are so many more sources in russian writing than just audio.
On May 10 2014 03:22 soujiro_ wrote: maybe the priest happen to run in front of a checkpoint or was a provocateur
so he was still running after 7 shots or what?
I think he's being sarcastic and saying that to show how silly the pro russian propaganda people's statements usually are. At least I sincerely hope so.
I'm curious why the separatists still fight after the last agreement, I guess putin only publically said he wanted the fighting to stop for now and in private told them to keep doing it to make the government look like the bad guys for his propaganda machine.
On a side note, I really wish I could still read/write russian since there are so many more sources in russian writing than just audio.
actually this propaganda (as always though) from Cheerio looks silly
those 2 cars - yeah, happy family drives 2 cars at once and cars are of caliber of "some businessman with security" class at least in Russia when you see 2 cars like these in your rear-view mirror on the road u beetter take right side of the road, cause there are some "serious" men inside and definitely not happy family
i don't know anything about that priest situation but i know you must take Kiev-Avakov-Cheerio propaganda with a grain of salt
On May 10 2014 03:22 soujiro_ wrote: maybe the priest happen to run in front of a checkpoint or was a provocateur
so he was still running after 7 shots or what?
I think he's being sarcastic and saying that to show how silly the pro russian propaganda people's statements usually are. At least I sincerely hope so.
He was being sarcastic, but not in the way you hope.
On May 10 2014 03:22 soujiro_ wrote: maybe the priest happen to run in front of a checkpoint or was a provocateur
so he was still running after 7 shots or what?
I think he's being sarcastic and saying that to show how silly the pro russian propaganda people's statements usually are. At least I sincerely hope so.
I'm curious why the separatists still fight after the last agreement, I guess putin only publically said he wanted the fighting to stop for now and in private told them to keep doing it to make the government look like the bad guys for his propaganda machine.
On a side note, I really wish I could still read/write russian since there are so many more sources in russian writing than just audio.
actually this propaganda (as always though) from Cheerio looks silly
those 2 cars - yeah, happy family drives 2 cars at once and cars are of caliber of "some businessman with security" class at least in Russia when you see 2 cars like these in your rear-view mirror on the road u beetter take right side of the road, cause there are some "serious" men inside and definitely not happy family
i don't know anything about that priest situation but i know you must take Kiev-Avakov-Cheerio propaganda with a grain of salt
It would appear russian propaganda is the only one you don't take with any salt. If the family was taking 2 cars all it says to me is they were trying to flee the terrorist controlled area and go somewhere safer that is still controlled by the government. Also this isn't russia, if they were pro russian they probably wouldn't have had a reason to flee the russian terrorist controlled zone. Nor did they have any security, as is evident by the fact that it was only the 3 of them, and they were murdered by the pro russian terrorists without being able to put up any resistance.
EPT![[image loading]](http://news.liga.net/upload/resize_cache/iblock/2bb/380_230_2/2bbfd06bfa1322a17b323453ef3b242e.jpg)
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