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Ukraine Crisis - Page 288

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There is a new policy in effect in this thread. Anyone not complying will be moderated.

New policy, please read before posting:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21393711
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22703 Posts
March 13 2014 16:56 GMT
#5741
On March 14 2014 01:53 PaleMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2014 01:49 m4ini wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:46 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:45 Acertos wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:42 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:31 m4ini wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:29 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:27 SilentchiLL wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:26 fleeze wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:25 SilentchiLL wrote:
[quote]

Could you please tell us why you actually hate that so much?
You keep on saying we're occupied, but I'd like to hear something a bit more substantial or maybe why you hate being "occupied" so much.


i hate that another country can violate our constitution heavily without consequences. see NSA and spying.

also: our constitution is worth NOTHING if it can be circumvented that easily.


The NSA could have spied on us without their troops here, so what else?


its called dictatorship when you live under Big Brothers hand

wanna tell me smthing about democracy again?


Yeah, democracy in germany doesn't work, we didn't get to vote if a foreign country may spy on us, totally a dictatorship.


i've also heard most of german gold is stored in USA
and some time ago Germany asked "what about my gold, USA"

could you remind me what happened?

let me sum it up:

- you have foreign armed troops in you territory
- all your country negotiations are known to 3rd party (which has 50k armed troops on you territory)
- your country gold is stored in anoter country (which has 50k armed troops on you territory and knows everything you think)
- your country does everything another country asks

this is democracy you say - i say you are hostage

Sorry but you are not making any sense anymore, Idk where you got your quote about germany's gold.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-dollar-collapse-where-is-germanys-gold/5321894


This actually contradicts your "puppet-statement". If you think hard, you may find out why. I'm not full of hopes though - let's just get back to ukraine.


puppet tries to break free, and i wish it best luck

back on topic

Ukraine will suffer for years now, cause west ukrainians hate east ukrainians and vice versa
there will be blood
but not in Crimea, cause Russia will protect it

Made all the more Ironic by there not being any violence between east and west, or even hatred, before the Russian invasion.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
oo_Wonderful_oo
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
The land of freedom23126 Posts
March 13 2014 16:57 GMT
#5742
On March 14 2014 01:56 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2014 01:53 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:49 m4ini wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:46 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:45 Acertos wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:42 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:31 m4ini wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:29 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:27 SilentchiLL wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:26 fleeze wrote:
[quote]

i hate that another country can violate our constitution heavily without consequences. see NSA and spying.

also: our constitution is worth NOTHING if it can be circumvented that easily.


The NSA could have spied on us without their troops here, so what else?


its called dictatorship when you live under Big Brothers hand

wanna tell me smthing about democracy again?


Yeah, democracy in germany doesn't work, we didn't get to vote if a foreign country may spy on us, totally a dictatorship.


i've also heard most of german gold is stored in USA
and some time ago Germany asked "what about my gold, USA"

could you remind me what happened?

let me sum it up:

- you have foreign armed troops in you territory
- all your country negotiations are known to 3rd party (which has 50k armed troops on you territory)
- your country gold is stored in anoter country (which has 50k armed troops on you territory and knows everything you think)
- your country does everything another country asks

this is democracy you say - i say you are hostage

Sorry but you are not making any sense anymore, Idk where you got your quote about germany's gold.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-dollar-collapse-where-is-germanys-gold/5321894


This actually contradicts your "puppet-statement". If you think hard, you may find out why. I'm not full of hopes though - let's just get back to ukraine.


puppet tries to break free, and i wish it best luck

back on topic

Ukraine will suffer for years now, cause west ukrainians hate east ukrainians and vice versa
there will be blood
but not in Crimea, cause Russia will protect it

Made all the more Ironic by there not being any violence between east and west, or even hatred, before the Russian invasion.


Ooph dude, you never was on Ukranian football stadiums, i guess.
To say that there wasn't any violence between East and West :D
LiquidLegends StaffFPL 25 #1 | tfw I cast games on-air | back-to-back Liquibet winner
Saryph
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1955 Posts
March 13 2014 16:57 GMT
#5743
And as this thread has shown, east and west seem to be coming together against their common foe, the invaders from Russia.
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
March 13 2014 16:58 GMT
#5744
On March 14 2014 01:57 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2014 01:56 Gorsameth wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:53 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:49 m4ini wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:46 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:45 Acertos wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:42 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:31 m4ini wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:29 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:27 SilentchiLL wrote:
[quote]

The NSA could have spied on us without their troops here, so what else?


its called dictatorship when you live under Big Brothers hand

wanna tell me smthing about democracy again?


Yeah, democracy in germany doesn't work, we didn't get to vote if a foreign country may spy on us, totally a dictatorship.


i've also heard most of german gold is stored in USA
and some time ago Germany asked "what about my gold, USA"

could you remind me what happened?

let me sum it up:

- you have foreign armed troops in you territory
- all your country negotiations are known to 3rd party (which has 50k armed troops on you territory)
- your country gold is stored in anoter country (which has 50k armed troops on you territory and knows everything you think)
- your country does everything another country asks

this is democracy you say - i say you are hostage

Sorry but you are not making any sense anymore, Idk where you got your quote about germany's gold.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-dollar-collapse-where-is-germanys-gold/5321894


This actually contradicts your "puppet-statement". If you think hard, you may find out why. I'm not full of hopes though - let's just get back to ukraine.


puppet tries to break free, and i wish it best luck

back on topic

Ukraine will suffer for years now, cause west ukrainians hate east ukrainians and vice versa
there will be blood
but not in Crimea, cause Russia will protect it

Made all the more Ironic by there not being any violence between east and west, or even hatred, before the Russian invasion.


Ooph dude, you never was on Ukranian football stadiums, i guess.
To say that there wasn't any violence between East and West :D


That's not what he meant though, football in general is not the thing you point at if it comes to "peaceful gatherings".
On track to MA1950A.
oo_Wonderful_oo
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
The land of freedom23126 Posts
March 13 2014 17:00 GMT
#5745
On March 14 2014 01:58 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2014 01:57 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:56 Gorsameth wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:53 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:49 m4ini wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:46 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:45 Acertos wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:42 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:31 m4ini wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:29 PaleMan wrote:
[quote]

its called dictatorship when you live under Big Brothers hand

wanna tell me smthing about democracy again?


Yeah, democracy in germany doesn't work, we didn't get to vote if a foreign country may spy on us, totally a dictatorship.


i've also heard most of german gold is stored in USA
and some time ago Germany asked "what about my gold, USA"

could you remind me what happened?

let me sum it up:

- you have foreign armed troops in you territory
- all your country negotiations are known to 3rd party (which has 50k armed troops on you territory)
- your country gold is stored in anoter country (which has 50k armed troops on you territory and knows everything you think)
- your country does everything another country asks

this is democracy you say - i say you are hostage

Sorry but you are not making any sense anymore, Idk where you got your quote about germany's gold.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-dollar-collapse-where-is-germanys-gold/5321894


This actually contradicts your "puppet-statement". If you think hard, you may find out why. I'm not full of hopes though - let's just get back to ukraine.


puppet tries to break free, and i wish it best luck

back on topic

Ukraine will suffer for years now, cause west ukrainians hate east ukrainians and vice versa
there will be blood
but not in Crimea, cause Russia will protect it

Made all the more Ironic by there not being any violence between east and west, or even hatred, before the Russian invasion.


Ooph dude, you never was on Ukranian football stadiums, i guess.
To say that there wasn't any violence between East and West :D


That's not what he meant though, football in general is not the thing you point at if it comes to "peaceful gatherings".


Every population has their radicals though, i find it hard to blame whole population for bunch of people with different views.
LiquidLegends StaffFPL 25 #1 | tfw I cast games on-air | back-to-back Liquibet winner
PaleMan
Profile Joined October 2002
Russian Federation1953 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-13 17:09:51
March 13 2014 17:02 GMT
#5746
On March 14 2014 01:56 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2014 01:53 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:49 m4ini wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:46 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:45 Acertos wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:42 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:31 m4ini wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:29 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:27 SilentchiLL wrote:
On March 14 2014 01:26 fleeze wrote:
[quote]

i hate that another country can violate our constitution heavily without consequences. see NSA and spying.

also: our constitution is worth NOTHING if it can be circumvented that easily.


The NSA could have spied on us without their troops here, so what else?


its called dictatorship when you live under Big Brothers hand

wanna tell me smthing about democracy again?


Yeah, democracy in germany doesn't work, we didn't get to vote if a foreign country may spy on us, totally a dictatorship.


i've also heard most of german gold is stored in USA
and some time ago Germany asked "what about my gold, USA"

could you remind me what happened?

let me sum it up:

- you have foreign armed troops in you territory
- all your country negotiations are known to 3rd party (which has 50k armed troops on you territory)
- your country gold is stored in anoter country (which has 50k armed troops on you territory and knows everything you think)
- your country does everything another country asks

this is democracy you say - i say you are hostage

Sorry but you are not making any sense anymore, Idk where you got your quote about germany's gold.


http://www.globalresearch.ca/u-s-dollar-collapse-where-is-germanys-gold/5321894


This actually contradicts your "puppet-statement". If you think hard, you may find out why. I'm not full of hopes though - let's just get back to ukraine.


puppet tries to break free, and i wish it best luck

back on topic

Ukraine will suffer for years now, cause west ukrainians hate east ukrainians and vice versa
there will be blood
but not in Crimea, cause Russia will protect it

Made all the more Ironic by there not being any violence between east and west, or even hatred, before the Russian invasion.


well you clearly not having a clue

just for the info

its 9 may of 2011 in Lviv

so called "banderovtsy" kicking and insulting WW2 veterans and their relatives


i'll explain
in the east Ukraine 9th of May is one of the biggest and respected holydays (end of WW2)
in the west part of Ukrain some ppl call it Day of Sorrow and hate it cause they think their granfathers lost a war together with their allies - nazi germans
Pure fan
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5080 Posts
March 13 2014 17:18 GMT
#5747
Wow I never thought I'd see globalresearch.ca used as a source lol.

in the west part of Ukrain some ppl call it Day of Sorrow and hate it cause they think their granfathers lost a war together with their allies - nazi germans


and some people hate it because it represents the re-imposition of genocidal soviet rule, but hey, nazis!
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
March 13 2014 17:27 GMT
#5748
Hm.

The intermittently close relationship between Bandera, the OUN and Nazi Germany have been described by historians such as David Marples as "ambivalent", tactical and opportunistic, with both sides trying to exploit the other unsuccessfully.


To be honest, i don't really know much about bandera, but what i read about him, well.. The thing people ("pro-russians") here seemingly forget is, why he actually collaborated with the nazi-regime. One might ask, what would he have done if there wasn't the soviet-threat.

One thing though:

The Soviet Union actively campaigned to discredit Bandera and all other Ukrainian nationalist partisans of World War II.


So i'm a bit indifferent now, it's certainly not as black and white as Pale or Zeo want to paint it here.
On track to MA1950A.
PaleMan
Profile Joined October 2002
Russian Federation1953 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-13 17:29:09
March 13 2014 17:27 GMT
#5749
On March 14 2014 02:18 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Wow I never thought I'd see globalresearch.ca used as a source lol.

Show nested quote +
in the west part of Ukrain some ppl call it Day of Sorrow and hate it cause they think their granfathers lost a war together with their allies - nazi germans


and some people hate it because it represents the re-imposition of genocidal soviet rule, but hey, nazis!


so that is good reason to beat up their fellow ukrainians, right?
Pure fan
DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5080 Posts
March 13 2014 17:32 GMT
#5750
On March 14 2014 02:27 PaleMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2014 02:18 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Wow I never thought I'd see globalresearch.ca used as a source lol.

in the west part of Ukrain some ppl call it Day of Sorrow and hate it cause they think their granfathers lost a war together with their allies - nazi germans


and some people hate it because it represents the re-imposition of genocidal soviet rule, but hey, nazis!


so that is good reason to beat up their fellow ukrainians, right?


according to certain russian partisans two in particular right here at TL, it is good reason for pro-russian gangs to beat up their fellow ukrainians.
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
March 13 2014 17:33 GMT
#5751
On March 14 2014 02:27 PaleMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2014 02:18 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Wow I never thought I'd see globalresearch.ca used as a source lol.

in the west part of Ukrain some ppl call it Day of Sorrow and hate it cause they think their granfathers lost a war together with their allies - nazi germans


and some people hate it because it represents the re-imposition of genocidal soviet rule, but hey, nazis!


so that is good reason to beat up their fellow ukrainians, right?


So by your logic, because some retards beat some other dudes up, they're all nazis. What are all russians then, after they burned the tatars restaurants/cars then?

Point being: you got radicals on both sides.
On track to MA1950A.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
March 13 2014 17:34 GMT
#5752
On March 14 2014 02:27 PaleMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2014 02:18 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Wow I never thought I'd see globalresearch.ca used as a source lol.

in the west part of Ukrain some ppl call it Day of Sorrow and hate it cause they think their granfathers lost a war together with their allies - nazi germans


and some people hate it because it represents the re-imposition of genocidal soviet rule, but hey, nazis!


so that is good reason to beat up their fellow ukrainians, right?

It's a good reason to have resentments against someone who called the fall of the Soviet Union 'the biggest tragedy of the 20th century" when your family died during the Holodomor, as did millions of other Ukrainians, especially in the agricultural focused West - Ukraine. It's funny how quick you are to imply that people sympathize with fascists, while for many people in the Ukraine the Soviet rule was equally bad.
rapistzerg
Profile Joined August 2009
37 Posts
March 13 2014 17:37 GMT
#5753
On March 14 2014 02:27 m4ini wrote:
Hm.

Show nested quote +
The intermittently close relationship between Bandera, the OUN and Nazi Germany have been described by historians such as David Marples as "ambivalent", tactical and opportunistic, with both sides trying to exploit the other unsuccessfully.


To be honest, i don't really know much about bandera, but what i read about him, well.. The thing people ("pro-russians") here seemingly forget is, why he actually collaborated with the nazi-regime. One might ask, what would he have done if there wasn't the soviet-threat.

One thing though:

Show nested quote +
The Soviet Union actively campaigned to discredit Bandera and all other Ukrainian nationalist partisans of World War II.


So i'm a bit indifferent now, it's certainly not as black and white as Pale or Zeo want to paint it here.


Just what this thread needed - some Nazi apologism.
kukarachaa
Profile Joined February 2011
United States284 Posts
March 13 2014 17:38 GMT
#5754
On March 14 2014 01:55 SilentchiLL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2014 01:53 PaleMan wrote:
but not in Crimea, cause Russia will protect it


Weren't there already several incidents of ethnic russians in Ukraine beating people up?
If I remember correctly atleast one of them was posted here.


Well there has been gun attack on pro-Russian protesters in Kharkov, one of them was wounded in the back. Haven't heard of any other serious incidents.
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
March 13 2014 17:40 GMT
#5755
On March 14 2014 02:37 rapistzerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2014 02:27 m4ini wrote:
Hm.

The intermittently close relationship between Bandera, the OUN and Nazi Germany have been described by historians such as David Marples as "ambivalent", tactical and opportunistic, with both sides trying to exploit the other unsuccessfully.


To be honest, i don't really know much about bandera, but what i read about him, well.. The thing people ("pro-russians") here seemingly forget is, why he actually collaborated with the nazi-regime. One might ask, what would he have done if there wasn't the soviet-threat.

One thing though:

The Soviet Union actively campaigned to discredit Bandera and all other Ukrainian nationalist partisans of World War II.


So i'm a bit indifferent now, it's certainly not as black and white as Pale or Zeo want to paint it here.


Just what this thread needed - some Nazi apologism.


Cute, a toon. There's no apologism needed, i cited wikipedia and historians. I even said i don't know much about bandera.

Get outta here.
On track to MA1950A.
Roman666
Profile Joined April 2012
Poland1440 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-13 17:41:15
March 13 2014 17:40 GMT
#5756
On March 14 2014 02:27 m4ini wrote:
Hm.

Show nested quote +
The intermittently close relationship between Bandera, the OUN and Nazi Germany have been described by historians such as David Marples as "ambivalent", tactical and opportunistic, with both sides trying to exploit the other unsuccessfully.


To be honest, i don't really know much about bandera, but what i read about him, well.. The thing people ("pro-russians") here seemingly forget is, why he actually collaborated with the nazi-regime. One might ask, what would he have done if there wasn't the soviet-threat.

One thing though:

Show nested quote +
The Soviet Union actively campaigned to discredit Bandera and all other Ukrainian nationalist partisans of World War II.


So i'm a bit indifferent now, it's certainly not as black and white as Pale or Zeo want to paint it here.

OUN and UPA were bad. Read up on Volhynia genocide/ethnic cleasings if you want to know what Shukhevych and him alike did back then. That does not mean that Soviets were better though.
PaleMan
Profile Joined October 2002
Russian Federation1953 Posts
March 13 2014 17:41 GMT
#5757
On March 14 2014 02:34 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2014 02:27 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 02:18 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Wow I never thought I'd see globalresearch.ca used as a source lol.

in the west part of Ukrain some ppl call it Day of Sorrow and hate it cause they think their granfathers lost a war together with their allies - nazi germans


and some people hate it because it represents the re-imposition of genocidal soviet rule, but hey, nazis!


so that is good reason to beat up their fellow ukrainians, right?

It's a good reason to have resentments against someone who called the fall of the Soviet Union 'the biggest tragedy of the 20th century" when your family died during the Holodomor, as did millions of other Ukrainians, especially in the agricultural focused West - Ukraine. It's funny how quick you are to imply that people sympathize with fascists, while for many people in the Ukraine the Soviet rule was equally bad.



it was a great hunger in Russia, Ukraine and Kazakhstan - millions and millions died, it wasn't specifically pointed towards ukrainians
Pure fan
Roman666
Profile Joined April 2012
Poland1440 Posts
March 13 2014 17:43 GMT
#5758
On March 14 2014 02:41 PaleMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2014 02:34 Nyxisto wrote:
On March 14 2014 02:27 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 02:18 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Wow I never thought I'd see globalresearch.ca used as a source lol.

in the west part of Ukrain some ppl call it Day of Sorrow and hate it cause they think their granfathers lost a war together with their allies - nazi germans


and some people hate it because it represents the re-imposition of genocidal soviet rule, but hey, nazis!


so that is good reason to beat up their fellow ukrainians, right?

It's a good reason to have resentments against someone who called the fall of the Soviet Union 'the biggest tragedy of the 20th century" when your family died during the Holodomor, as did millions of other Ukrainians, especially in the agricultural focused West - Ukraine. It's funny how quick you are to imply that people sympathize with fascists, while for many people in the Ukraine the Soviet rule was equally bad.



it was a great hunger in Russia, Ukraine and Kazakhstan - millions and millions died, it wasn't specifically pointed towards ukrainians

That is an outright lie. I suggest you to read up what Holodomor really was instead of saying such BS.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-13 17:45:55
March 13 2014 17:44 GMT
#5759
On March 14 2014 02:41 PaleMan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2014 02:34 Nyxisto wrote:
On March 14 2014 02:27 PaleMan wrote:
On March 14 2014 02:18 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Wow I never thought I'd see globalresearch.ca used as a source lol.

in the west part of Ukrain some ppl call it Day of Sorrow and hate it cause they think their granfathers lost a war together with their allies - nazi germans


and some people hate it because it represents the re-imposition of genocidal soviet rule, but hey, nazis!


so that is good reason to beat up their fellow ukrainians, right?

It's a good reason to have resentments against someone who called the fall of the Soviet Union 'the biggest tragedy of the 20th century" when your family died during the Holodomor, as did millions of other Ukrainians, especially in the agricultural focused West - Ukraine. It's funny how quick you are to imply that people sympathize with fascists, while for many people in the Ukraine the Soviet rule was equally bad.



it was a great hunger in Russia, Ukraine and Kazakhstan - millions and millions died, it wasn't specifically pointed towards ukrainians

The majority of victims where Ukrainians. How does it millions of dead Ukrainians and their children help that people in Kazakhstan died too? Also the important part is it wasn't just a hunger. It was a man made catastrophe induced by collectivization, deportation and other policies put in place by the Soviet Government.
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
March 13 2014 17:47 GMT
#5760
On March 14 2014 02:40 Roman666 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 14 2014 02:27 m4ini wrote:
Hm.

The intermittently close relationship between Bandera, the OUN and Nazi Germany have been described by historians such as David Marples as "ambivalent", tactical and opportunistic, with both sides trying to exploit the other unsuccessfully.


To be honest, i don't really know much about bandera, but what i read about him, well.. The thing people ("pro-russians") here seemingly forget is, why he actually collaborated with the nazi-regime. One might ask, what would he have done if there wasn't the soviet-threat.

One thing though:

The Soviet Union actively campaigned to discredit Bandera and all other Ukrainian nationalist partisans of World War II.


So i'm a bit indifferent now, it's certainly not as black and white as Pale or Zeo want to paint it here.

OUN and UPA were bad. Read up on Volhynia genocide/ethnic cleasings if you want to know what Shukhevych and him alike did back then. That does not mean that Soviets were better though.



Thanks for pointing that out, didn't know about these incedents - reading up at the moment.

On track to MA1950A.
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