News: Two Women Claim Texas Jailers Ran a 'Rape Camp' Behind Bars
Two female inmates have sued a Texas county and three former jailers for running what they said was a “rape camp” at the county jail.
“These forced acts of lasciviousness included, but are not limited to, forcing female inmates to repeatedly perform oral sex on male guards, forcing female inmates to repeatedly masturbate the male guards, the male guards masturbating in view of the female inmates, male guards forcing digital penetrative sex acts in the female inmates’, forcing female inmates to engage in sexual sex acts with other female inmates, including but not limited to forcing female inmates to have oral sex with each other, among other things.”
“In addition to the repeated sexual assaults, numerous female inmates were sexually harassed. Certain male guards would strip the female inmates of their clothing and provide only shaving cream to conceal their genitalia. Certain male guards would sometimes force the female inmates to shower in front of them while instructing them to shave their vaginas. In other instances, while detailing their degenerate sexual fantasies, the jailers would pin the girls against a wall, grope their persons, verbally berate them, digitally rape their vagina and/or anus, then force them to perform oral sex.”
The court document alleged that the guards would “facilitate their carnal impulses” by withholding food and water, physically abusing the women, threatening them and taking away privileges.
I think this is one sadly overlooked aspect of modern society, women in the penal system. I can only imagine what other atrocities happen in other prisons given that they seem to be regulated by themselves and are not prone to media scrutiny unless something really drastic happens.
CORPUS CHRISTI, Texas (CN) - Texas jailers ran a "rape camp" where they "repeatedly raped and humiliated female inmates," and forced them to masturbate and sodomize male guards, and one another, two women claim in court. J.A.S. and J.M.N. sued Live Oak County and its former jailers Vincent Aguilar, Israel Charles Jr. and Jaime E. Smith, in Federal Court. All three guards were arrested in August 2010 and charged with sexual assault, the Beeville Bee-Picayune reported at the time. The newspaper did not identify the victims. Smith and Aguilar are in Texas state prisons today, according to the complaint, which says defendant Charles is living in Bee County. Live Oak is a sparsely settled county in south central Texas. Its seat is George West. "Beginning sometime in 2007 to at least August of 2010 the Live Oak County Sheriff's office ran a 'rape camp' known as the Live Oak County Jail," the complaint states. "In this facility, numerous jailers, all employed by the Live Oak County Sheriff's Office, repeatedly raped and humiliated female inmates over an extended period of time. These forced acts of lasciviousness included, but are not limited to, forcing female inmates to repeatedly perform oral sex on male guards, forcing female inmates to repeatedly masturbate the male guards, the male guards masturbating in view of the female inmates, male guards forcing digital penetrative sex acts in the female inmates', forcing female inmates to engage in sexual sex acts with other female inmates, including but not limited to forcing female inmates to have oral sex with each other, among other things. "In addition to the repeated sexual assaults, numerous female inmates were sexually harassed. Certain male guards would strip the female inmates of their clothing and provide only shaving cream to conceal their genitalia. Certain male guards would sometimes force the female inmates to shower in front of them while instructing them to shave their vaginas. In other instances, while detailing their degenerate sexual fantasies, the jailers would pin the girls against a wall, grope their persons, verbally berate them, digitally rape their vagina and/or anus, then force them to perform oral sex. "In order to facilitate their carnal impulses, these guards would withhold food and water, engage in physical abuse, restrict privileges and verbally and emotionally abuse the women - even threaten to kill them in order to compel their compliance." J.A.S. says she was arrested on marijuana possession charges in July 2010, and transferred to the Live Oak County Jail after a brief stay at the Jim Wells County Jail. "Not long after she was transferred, she was approached by a jailer known to her only as 'Jesse,'" the complaint states. "He warned plaintiff to stay away from defendants Aguilar and Smith. Naively, she asked why and he emphasized, 'trust me, stay away from them. I can't tell you why, I'd lose my job.' "Sometime later, while waiting at the facility nurses' station, defendant Aguilar approached plaintiff and touched her on her shoulder and back. The nurse on duty observed this happening and told defendant Aguilar to stop. In fact, the abuse was so widespread and pervasive that defendant Aguilar felt comfortable enough to ask Ms. Smith if he could touch her vagina, right in front of the jail nurse. "Another incident occurred later involving both defendant Smith and defendant Aguilar. Both men forcibly and inappropriately touched plaintiff. During the incident, defendant Aguilar kissed plaintiff and attempted to penetrate her. Only when plaintiff defended herself by slapping defendant Aguilar's face did he relent." J.A.S. claims the guards knew where to take inmates to avoid having their sexual assaults recorded by the jail's "grossly ineffective" camera system. During her pre-trial incarceration, the three guards had their way with her, she says. "Defendants Aguilar, Smith and Charles all assaulted plaintiff in numerous ways over the course of several incidents. As they told it to plaintiff, she 'belong[ed] to [them]' and was their 'sex slave or whatever they wanted her to be,'" the complaint states. "Plaintiff was forced to perform various sexual acts on defendants Charles, Aguilar and Smith, including oral sex and manual stimulation - whatever time permitted for their amusement. These incidents also included their own lewd acts on themselves, including masturbation where plaintiff was forced to conceal their ejaculate by way of ingestion. "These and similar acts occurred so frequently that plaintiff cannot account for the number of assaults she was forced to endure - during any given attack, there would be from one (1) to three (3) different guards present who were participating or watching plaintiff being denigrated. "Finally, several incidents took place wherein plaintiff was forced to perform sexual acts on another female inmate, plaintiff [J.M.N.]. Specifically, one night defendants Aguilar and Smith provided razors and shaving cream to plaintiffs. They made the women strip naked and told them to shave their pubic hair. Next they made the women put 'shaving cream bikinis" on each other as they looked on. "Once that was accomplished, the women were directed to rinse off and that the guards would return. When defendants Aguilar and Smith returned [J.A.S.] and [J.M.N.] were told to give them 'a show.' "The defendants made the women perform oral sex on each other, touch and grope each other, penetrate each other's vaginas with their fingers, all while the guards soaked it in, grinning and flicking their tongues out at the humiliated women. As if forcing these two women to perform pornographic sex acts on each other was not enough, defendants Aguilar and Smith then forced the women to stop and come to the door to touch their penises and allow the guards to grope and penetrate their persons. "After defendants Aguilar and Smith concluded their session with [J.A.S.] and [J.M.N.], defendant Smith came back later that night and forced [J.A.S.] to perform oral sex on him. "To make matters even more tragic, the charge of possession of a controlled substance, for which [J.A.S.] was being detained, was dismissed and the case was dropped upon her release from custody." J.M.N. says she was booked into Live Oak County Jail in July 2010. "Upon introduction with [J.M.N.], defendant Aguilar remarked that she 'look(ed) wild' and that he could not wait to (have sex with) her. He pinned her against a wall face first then rubbed up behind her, grabbing her breasts and breathing into her ear while rubbing his face along the nape of her neck. From that point forward, things only got worse ... "Throughout her stay, [J.M.N.] was repeatedly sexually assaulted by defendants. For the first several weeks these assaults were in the form of the guards placing their hands through the food slot in the cell door and forcing her to lower her pants and undergarments and then anally and vaginally penetrating her with their hands. They would also make [J.M.N.] show the guards her breasts, buttocks and/or vagina or the guards would withhold food, drink, essential hygiene items, threaten to harm her or take away privileges." (Parentheses and ellipsis in complaint.) J.M.N. says the assaults escalated until the night the guards forced her to perform sex acts on J.A.S. The women seek punitive damages for civil rights violations, assault and intentional infliction of emotional distress. They are represented by Ronald W. Armstrong II of San Antonio.
On June 18 2013 09:05 bobsire wrote: I wouldn't mind being a guard at this prison
Wow, what a classy guy you are.
Anyway, it's hard to comment on these sorts of stories when you have no idea whether they are telling the complete truth or just making the whole thing up trying to get money, or maybe just exaggerating some bad experiences. Who knows. Maybe this is worthy of discussion once a verdict is reached.
On June 18 2013 09:05 bobsire wrote: I wouldn't mind being a guard at this prison
Wow, what a classy guy you are.
Anyway, it's hard to comment on these sorts of stories when you have no idea whether they are telling the complete truth or just making the whole thing up trying to get money, or maybe just exaggerating some bad experiences. Who knows. Maybe this is worthy of discussion once a verdict is reached.
I already reported him as soon as I could. Ban is a little late...
On June 18 2013 09:15 datcirclejerk wrote: Anyway, it's hard to comment on these sorts of stories when you have no idea whether they are telling the complete truth or just making the whole thing up trying to get money, or maybe just exaggerating some bad experiences. Who knows. Maybe this is worthy of discussion once a verdict is reached.
On June 18 2013 09:11 rezzan wrote: one part of my brain says, "theyre in prison for a reason, they only get what they deserve"
and at the sametime i dont know what to think. justified or not. hmm.. ive heard worse in guantanamo bay.
Nope. They're in prison. Being jailed is what they deserve for however long the courts decided. You dont get abuse someone even when they're a criminal. Not every person in prison is a mass murderer or rapist, most aren't. No part of it is justifiable.
Stanford Prison experiment. The banality of evil. Considering how much people talk about rape occurring in prisons, I'm not surprised by these gruesome events, though disgusted.
I would love to say that I am both shocked and disgusted, but shit like this doesn't even surprise me anymore, so just disgusted for now. I think a news story about a well-run prison in the US would probably make me shit my pants.
Again not much to discuss (unless one counts extrapolated debates about the prison system as a whole as discussion relevant to this article) at this point, but yeah it's very sad, a fact made more depressing by the fact that I would be more surprised by a well-run prison than one in which more atrocious acts are being committed.
Thought this might be more about female-female rape, which I thought would be more interesting, sociologically speaking.
Found this, and was disappointed. I was under the (perhaps naive) impression that male guards were generally supposed to be used more remotely and only in conjunction with female guards at female prisons (somewhat similar to doctor's offices). I would imagine there is a severe shortage on female COs, though. Pretty disgusting, and I'm not really sure what can be done about it besides hire more female guards, which probably isn't a realistic option.
I actually somehow had the idea that there were only female guards in prisons for women. Lol that's how naive I am haha. But honestly this would somewhat limit that kind of shit.
On June 18 2013 09:32 HardlyNever wrote: Thought this might be more about female-female rape, which I thought would be more interesting, sociologically speaking.
Found this, and was disappointed. I was under the (perhaps naive) impression that male guards were generally supposed to be used more remotely and only in conjunction with female guards at female prisons (somewhat similar to doctor's offices). I would imagine there is a severe shortage on female COs, though. Pretty disgusting, and I'm not really sure what can be done about it besides hire more female guards, which probably isn't a realistic option.
On June 18 2013 09:25 MountainDewJunkie wrote: I would love to say that I am both shocked and disgusted, but shit like this doesn't even surprise me anymore, so just disgusted for now. I think a news story about a well-run prison in the US would probably make me shit my pants.
Agree. The fucking interwebs has really shredded the humanity away from me.
On June 18 2013 09:34 ZenithM wrote: I actually somehow had the idea that there were only female guards in prisons for women. Lol that's how naive I am haha. But honestly this would somewhat limit that kind of shit.
On June 18 2013 09:32 HardlyNever wrote: Thought this might be more about female-female rape, which I thought would be more interesting, sociologically speaking.
Found this, and was disappointed. I was under the (perhaps naive) impression that male guards were generally supposed to be used more remotely and only in conjunction with female guards at female prisons (somewhat similar to doctor's offices). I would imagine there is a severe shortage on female COs, though. Pretty disgusting, and I'm not really sure what can be done about it besides hire more female guards, which probably isn't a realistic option.
In most of the Western world, female prison guards exclusively guard female prisoners.[3] Until the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the 1972 Equal Employment Opportunity Act, this was true in the United States.[4] Men usually worked in perimeter posts, such as gate posts, rather than having direct contact with female prisoners. Male employees previously had restricted positions.
On June 18 2013 09:26 Chrispy wrote: Just curios but as there seems to be no mention of full on rape (ie penile insertion), what do you think is the reasoning behind this?
Terrible situation, I thought it was commonplace for female guards to guard female prisons.
To the guy thinking this was in any way shape or form justifiable: WTF?
If the guards "finish" after this form of rape the female inmates have incontrovertible (relatively speaking) physical evidence of their abuse.
If this is true, then that is way messed up. It doesn't really matter at all what hose women did to get put in jail, rape is a horrible horrible thing to have happen to any one. I feel it will be hard to prove if it I'd true of not though.
Rape occurs even in male prisons...I don't find this kind of thing surprising at all. Prison guards aren't exactly model citizens, so it's not above them to abuse their positions.
I wouldn't expect that kind of shit from Canadians....
Why not?
I dunno, usually we're decent people.
I think he meant "Aren't people from other countries (read: USA) usually decent as well?" :D
Edit: I'm confused that people are surprised about this. I mean if you put male jailers in prisons for women, that would be one of the first concerns I would have. What surprises me is that apparently 40% of jailers in prisons for women are male in the US, which is kind of absurd, but I guess you have no choice :/
I wouldn't expect that kind of shit from Canadians....
Why not?
I dunno, usually we're decent people.
I think he meant "Aren't people from other countries (read: USA) usually decent as well?" :D
I don't know, I guess I was just mostly expressing my disappointment. But I'll admit that on average I expect more from Canadians, we're usually more progressive. It kind of looks bad when 2 of "us" in a row joke about how it would be awesome to rape female inmates.
On June 18 2013 09:34 ZenithM wrote: I actually somehow had the idea that there were only female guards in prisons for women. Lol that's how naive I am haha. But honestly this would somewhat limit that kind of shit.
On June 18 2013 09:32 HardlyNever wrote: Thought this might be more about female-female rape, which I thought would be more interesting, sociologically speaking.
Found this, and was disappointed. I was under the (perhaps naive) impression that male guards were generally supposed to be used more remotely and only in conjunction with female guards at female prisons (somewhat similar to doctor's offices). I would imagine there is a severe shortage on female COs, though. Pretty disgusting, and I'm not really sure what can be done about it besides hire more female guards, which probably isn't a realistic option.
In most of the Western world, female prison guards exclusively guard female prisoners.[3] Until the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the 1972 Equal Employment Opportunity Act, this was true in the United States.[4] Men usually worked in perimeter posts, such as gate posts, rather than having direct contact with female prisoners. Male employees previously had restricted positions.
Hmm... that's essentially the way I was thinking it worked. Perhaps this case is just an except, or just plain not true.
Stick cameras everywhere and have an unrelated agency make rounds on all prisons to review these tapes & interview detainees, etc, etc, a couple times per year. Problems like this won't happen. The catch: it will probably cost a lot. We get what we pay for!
On June 18 2013 10:03 FallDownMarigold wrote: Stick cameras everywhere and have an unrelated agency make rounds on all prisons to review these tapes & interview detainees, etc, etc, a couple times per year. Problems like this won't happen. The catch: it will probably cost a lot. We get what we pay for!
So much money is being spent on the jails in America anyways, I think that would be a good idea to have more thorough inspections via agencies and such.
On June 18 2013 09:24 Bagration wrote: Stanford Prison experiment. The banality of evil. Considering how much people talk about rape occurring in prisons, I'm not surprised by these gruesome events, though disgusted.
I was about to reference the same thing. Terrible but this happens but sadly it's not all that surprising when you know the psychology behind it.
On June 18 2013 10:03 FallDownMarigold wrote: Stick cameras everywhere and have an unrelated agency make rounds on all prisons to review these tapes & interview detainees, etc, etc, a couple times per year. Problems like this won't happen. The catch: it will probably cost a lot. We get what we pay for!
Essentially that's like hiring guards to watch over the guards. I like it :D
On June 18 2013 09:53 Dreamer.T wrote: Rape occurs even in male prisons...I don't find this kind of thing surprising at all. Prison guards aren't exactly model citizens, so it's not above them to abuse their positions.
Even? Rape has long been completely institutionalized in male prisons, and people make fun of male prison rape instead of expressing concern for it the way they instantly do when women are the victims.
There's a reason why the term "rape culture" was first coined to describe prison rape, before the phrase was misappropriated by others...
On June 18 2013 10:03 FallDownMarigold wrote: Stick cameras everywhere and have an unrelated agency make rounds on all prisons to review these tapes & interview detainees, etc, etc, a couple times per year. Problems like this won't happen. The catch: it will probably cost a lot. We get what we pay for!
Essentially that's like hiring guards to watch over the guards. I like it :D
On June 18 2013 09:24 Bagration wrote: Stanford Prison experiment. The banality of evil. Considering how much people talk about rape occurring in prisons, I'm not surprised by these gruesome events, though disgusted.
I was about to reference the same thing. Terrible but this happens but sadly it's not all that surprising when you know the psychology behind it.
The Stanford prison experiment is commonly cited, but it was so flawed that its results are irrelevant. Small sample, no control, experimenter effects and plenty of ways for confirmation bias to come into play, etc. Another thing that goes unmentioned is that a third of the guards in the experiment were sadistic to begin with, and they convinced the other guards to participate.
Having said that, that's probably what's happening here too. A few rotten apples to spoil the barrel.
This story sounds pretty extreme, though. I wouldn't be surprised if they were making it up, and if they weren't, how long has it been going on? Why has it gone unreported?
Apparently all three guards were charged criminally with sexual assault in 2010 by two women who were not the ones suing in this case. While I can't find any decent information on that case, even to see what the verdicts were or if it's still ongoing, I have not seen anything suggesting the plaintiffs in this lawsuit involved themselves in the criminal case.
More or less, two women accused these three guards or sexually assaulting them in 2010. Now, in 2013, two new women are stepping forward and are suing the guards, and the county, for money for being sexually assaulted in the same time period.
I'm trying to figure out why these women would file a civil suit now, but would not involve themselves in the criminal case three years ago. However, it's not really a good reason to discount their story.
Or I could be completely wrong...as I said, info on the 2010 charges are annoyingly hard to find.
On June 18 2013 10:12 Brett wrote: I like how so many people have immediately assumed that the claim is truthful...
Even if it was true, it wouldn't be surprising at all, and has probably been done before. Otherwise why would we want specifically female guards rather than male guards to guard women?
On June 18 2013 09:24 Bagration wrote: Stanford Prison experiment. The banality of evil. Considering how much people talk about rape occurring in prisons, I'm not surprised by these gruesome events, though disgusted.
I was about to reference the same thing. Terrible but this happens but sadly it's not all that surprising when you know the psychology behind it.
The Stanford prison experiment is commonly cited, but it was so flawed that its results are irrelevant. Small sample, no control, experimenter effects and plenty of ways for confirmation bias to come into play, etc. Another thing that goes unmentioned is that a third of the guards in the experiment were sadistic to begin with, and they convinced the other guards to participate.
Having said that, that's probably what's happening here too. A few rotten apples to spoil the barrel.
This story sounds pretty extreme, though. I wouldn't be surprised if they were making it up, and if they weren't, how long has it been going on? Why has it gone unreported?
That's what I'm wondering.. how in the hell is all that going on for any amount of time without being reported lol
It will be interesting to see how this turns out. I know in the prison system, the things described happen often for pay. Women will be "bi"-sexual (when really they are straight or gay) for pay in prison to send home extra money or to use the extra money in the canteen and such. It's a fairly dangerous game though, It will be interesting to see how this case goes, if the plaintiffs are telling the truth then they will win, if they are embellishing this, it will turn into a false rape situation and the case will go to pieces.
On June 18 2013 10:12 Brett wrote: I like how so many people have immediately assumed that the claim is truthful...
Even if it was true, it wouldn't be surprising at all, and has probably been done before. Otherwise why would we want specifically female guards rather than male guards to guard women?
Because men are all sorts of stupid and gullible around pussy and it would be a security liability?
On topic, don't go to prison - you get raped, it apparently applies to women now as well.
i don't understand why phuns on dead people are ok on tl but if it is rape and someone is joking its not. This thread has literally no discussion potential. A man with power will abuse it that is just how humans work so this isn't surprising at all, but the inmates probably can't win a trial if the guards all say it never happend the system is just very biased like that. There are quite often reports that police violence cases that go to court are almost never won for the claimant and i doubt it will be much different for guards.
On June 18 2013 09:26 Chrispy wrote: Just curios but as there seems to be no mention of full on rape (ie penile insertion), what do you think is the reasoning behind this?
Terrible situation, I thought it was commonplace for female guards to guard female prisons.
To the guy thinking this was in any way shape or form justifiable: WTF?
Why am I not surprised that something like this has happened in Texas
On June 18 2013 09:24 Integra wrote: I'm surprised they managed to do this, doesn't jails in US have rather strict controls so that crap like this cannot happen?
So naïve
In the US, prisons are listed on the stock market and rent out prison labor to boost corporate profits. What controls?
I really hope that some sort of "action, law, or change" happens with the prison system to prevent prison rape universally for men and women, because it's sad that it needs to be a woman who is raped for prison rape to get exposure. Male rape has long been a problem in the US prison system and hasn't been addressed adequately.
On June 18 2013 10:51 DonKey_ wrote: I really hope that some sort of "action, law, or change" happens with the prison system to prevent prison rape universally for men and women, because it's sad that it needs to be a woman who is raped for prison rape to get exposure. Male rape has long been a problem in the US prison system and hasn't been addressed adequately.
there already is a law. its ineffective. there is also a law that makes prisons liable for rapes in their prison to some extent. its effectiveness is questionable.
I think one thing that's causing this problem is that far too many people look at prisoners as "less than human". I personally know a number of people who, upon hearing about something like this will just say "Well, that's what you get for committing a crime. If you don't like it, don't get sent to prison."
If we want to eliminate the problem we first have to rid our society of the idea that someone who has made a mistake in their life is less than human. Only then will our country care enough to properly scrutinize our jails.
On June 18 2013 09:26 Chrispy wrote: Just curios but as there seems to be no mention of full on rape (ie penile insertion), what do you think is the reasoning behind this?
Terrible situation, I thought it was commonplace for female guards to guard female prisons.
To the guy thinking this was in any way shape or form justifiable: WTF?
On June 18 2013 10:51 DonKey_ wrote: I really hope that some sort of "action, law, or change" happens with the prison system to prevent prison rape universally for men and women, because it's sad that it needs to be a woman who is raped for prison rape to get exposure. Male rape has long been a problem in the US prison system and hasn't been addressed adequately.
there already is a law. its ineffective. there is also a law that makes prisons liable for rapes in their prison to some extent. its effectiveness is questionable.
Then we should make changes? I don't see why one ineffective law should stop us from looking for an effective solution.
On June 18 2013 10:51 DonKey_ wrote: I really hope that some sort of "action, law, or change" happens with the prison system to prevent prison rape universally for men and women, because it's sad that it needs to be a woman who is raped for prison rape to get exposure. Male rape has long been a problem in the US prison system and hasn't been addressed adequately.
there already is a law. its ineffective. there is also a law that makes prisons liable for rapes in their prison to some extent. its effectiveness is questionable.
I think one of the problems is that inmates are in an extremely vulnerable position being incarcerated and it's just far to easy for guards to take advantage of them. It's just far to easy for guards to use their power to keep such crimes secret, and if the inmate reports it they can just deny it and say that the inmate is lying. Sometimes I just think prison guards and police officers have too much power.
Nevertheless, this is troubling. Life behind is a mystery to most people and things like this have a hard time getting out to the people who can do something about it.
On June 18 2013 11:03 Lockitupv2 wrote: I have a hard time believing in forced oral sex.
I mean, wouldnt the girls just bite down on it?
Nevertheless, this is troubling. Life behind is a mystery to most people and things like this have a hard time getting out to the people who can do something about it.
If there's a gun pointed at your head, do you bite or swallow?
On June 18 2013 11:03 Lockitupv2 wrote: I have a hard time believing in forced oral sex.
I mean, wouldnt the girls just bite down on it?
Nevertheless, this is troubling. Life behind is a mystery to most people and things like this have a hard time getting out to the people who can do something about it.
The OP says the following:
The court document alleged that the guards would “facilitate their carnal impulses” by withholding food and water, physically abusing the women, threatening them and taking away privileges.
If the inmates had "[bitten] down on it" as you suggest, then the guards would have beaten them, or continued withholding food and water. When a guy who's armed and is bigger than you says they'll beat you if you don't suck on it, you're probably not going to want to "bite down on it".
On June 18 2013 11:03 Lockitupv2 wrote: I have a hard time believing in forced oral sex.
I mean, wouldnt the girls just bite down on it?
Nevertheless, this is troubling. Life behind is a mystery to most people and things like this have a hard time getting out to the people who can do something about it.
If there's a gun pointed at your head, do you bite or swallow?
Good luck shooting someone after your dick was just bitten off.
You 3 wouldnt happen to be women, would you? It would hurt them more than they could ever hurt you. They cant shoot the prisoner, that much is obvious.
On June 18 2013 11:03 Lockitupv2 wrote: I have a hard time believing in forced oral sex.
I mean, wouldnt the girls just bite down on it?
Nevertheless, this is troubling. Life behind is a mystery to most people and things like this have a hard time getting out to the people who can do something about it.
If there's a gun pointed at your head, do you bite or swallow?
Good luck shooting someone after your dick was just bitten off.
That's true, but the point of the gun is the deterrent factor, with the goal in mind that they won't bite in the first place from fear.
On June 18 2013 11:10 Rainbow Cuddles wrote: Can we not have this kind of stuff on TL? Even the title is triggering
The last time I checked, TL was supposed to be a place where any topic can be discussed objectively, in a level headed manner. Not a place where we pretend bad things don't happen, and only talk about how nice the world is. Correct me if I'm wrong on this one please.
Maybe i am naive, but i always assumed that in prisons there are systems in place that prevent that sort of stuff from happening. Like people from a different organisation regularly checking up on prisoners, cameras, things like that. Especially cameras, i just assumed that prisons are basically full of them.
I also assumed that there were female guards for female prisoners. Not that that would make a rape situation impossible, but a lot more unlikely.
On June 18 2013 11:15 Simberto wrote: Maybe i am naive, but i always assumed that in prisons there are systems in place that prevent that sort of stuff from happening. Like people from a different organisation regularly checking up on prisoners, cameras, things like that. Especially cameras, i just assumed that prisons are basically full of them.
I also assumed that there were female guards for female prisoners. Not that that would make a rape situation impossible, but a lot more unlikely.
What makes you think that would make it a lot more unlikely?
Because most women are not sexually attracted to women. Most men are. Thus all other things (like the chance of a guard wanting to rape a prisoner) etc... being the same, you have a far higher chance of having a group of men conspire to rape female prisoners then a group of women, simply based on the fact that heterosexuals are a large majority of people.
... Every day there is some new shock story in General. While this is somewhat horrifying and very unfortunate, isolated cases like these do not necessarily equate to some larger trend. If there was a trend of rape in women's prisons, that would constitute "news" or warrant a discussion. To me, this is just another bunch of sickos and we can't really draw any conclusions or meaningful discussion from it.
What I mean is this - I live in the Bronx, every night there is a news story about some robbery or stabbing or what have you. While those things are shitty, they are not news, nor do they warrant any real discussion beyond the local police station and courthouse. If there was a trend of robberies increasing, then that would be worth discussing.
On June 18 2013 11:19 Simberto wrote: Because most women are not sexually attracted to women. Most men are. Thus all other things like the chance of a guard wanting to rape a prisoner etc... being the same, you have a far higher chance of having a group of men conspire to rape female prisoners then a group of women, simply based on the fact that heterosexuals are a large majority of people.
Heterosexuals are a large majority of people, but female prison guards is a skewed subset of that group.
On June 18 2013 11:10 Rainbow Cuddles wrote: Can we not have this kind of stuff on TL? Even the title is triggering
Triggering what?
Memories of assault or rape?....
I don't think think TL has ever been a safe haven for victims though, so I don't see a reason to change the title, we could get rid of all the " insert gamertag was raped" or "insert team name is raping" first, and take a good step forward though.
On June 18 2013 11:10 Rainbow Cuddles wrote: Can we not have this kind of stuff on TL? Even the title is triggering
Triggering what?
Public discussion/description of rape can be a trigger to panic attacks etc to people have been raped. When posting sensitive things like this it is generally wise to spoiler tag everything under a big "trigger warning" label.
On topic, this is one of the most horrific things I've seen come out of a civilized nation in quite some time. I hope the fallout from this is severe, and leads to proper legislation to stop rape in the penal system.
On June 18 2013 11:10 Rainbow Cuddles wrote: Can we not have this kind of stuff on TL? Even the title is triggering
Triggering what?
Memories of assault or rape?....
I don't think think TL has ever been a safe haven for victims though, so I don't see a reason to change the title, we could get rid of all the " insert gamertag was raped" or "insert team name is raping" first, and take a good step forward though.
Becoming a "safe space" (read: politically correct feminist echo chamber) is not a good step forward.
On June 18 2013 11:10 Rainbow Cuddles wrote: Can we not have this kind of stuff on TL? Even the title is triggering
Triggering what?
Public discussion/description of rape can be a trigger to panic attacks etc to people have been raped. When posting sensitive things like this it is generally wise to spoiler tag everything under a big "trigger warning" label.
On topic, this is one of the most horrific things I've seen come out of a civilized nation in quite some time. I hope the fallout from this is severe, and leads to proper legislation to stop rape in the penal system.
How is this more horrific than the male prison rape problem which has long been known and publicly joked about?
On June 18 2013 11:03 Lockitupv2 wrote: I have a hard time believing in forced oral sex.
I mean, wouldnt the girls just bite down on it?
Nevertheless, this is troubling. Life behind is a mystery to most people and things like this have a hard time getting out to the people who can do something about it.
If there's a gun pointed at your head, do you bite or swallow?
They could still bite it off though, if the guards shot them and killed the prisoners they'd have to give a reason, and the guard would be most likely going to the ER for having his dick bit off. If it happened more than once(which it obviously prolly would) it'd be kinda hard not to put 2+2 = 4 imo.
On June 18 2013 11:10 Rainbow Cuddles wrote: Can we not have this kind of stuff on TL? Even the title is triggering
Triggering what?
Memories of assault or rape?....
I don't think think TL has ever been a safe haven for victims though, so I don't see a reason to change the title, we could get rid of all the " insert gamertag was raped" or "insert team name is raping" first, and take a good step forward though.
Becoming a "safe space" (read: politically correct feminist echo chamber) is not a good step forward.
On June 18 2013 11:10 Rainbow Cuddles wrote: Can we not have this kind of stuff on TL? Even the title is triggering
Triggering what?
Public discussion/description of rape can be a trigger to panic attacks etc to people have been raped. When posting sensitive things like this it is generally wise to spoiler tag everything under a big "trigger warning" label.
On topic, this is one of the most horrific things I've seen come out of a civilized nation in quite some time. I hope the fallout from this is severe, and leads to proper legislation to stop rape in the penal system.
How is this more horrific than the male prison rape problem which has long been known and publicly joked about?
Well, at least hopefully, the case of male rape in prison isnt brought about intentionally by the direct actions of the guards. At least thats a moral distinction. You put criminals into a confined space your going to get beatings, rapes and murders-- theres no realistic way of stopping that. But there is a way of ensuring the guards arent adding to those figures.
Sunprince, I think the difference is that fellow male prisoners are raping one another, whereas in this case it was the guards that were abusing the prisoners. I don't think it's possible to always intervene on the first example, but guards raping prisoners should never happen in the first place.
On June 18 2013 11:10 Rainbow Cuddles wrote: Can we not have this kind of stuff on TL? Even the title is triggering
Triggering what?
Memories of assault or rape?....
I don't think think TL has ever been a safe haven for victims though, so I don't see a reason to change the title, we could get rid of all the " insert gamertag was raped" or "insert team name is raping" first, and take a good step forward though.
Becoming a "safe space" (read: politically correct feminist echo chamber) is not a good step forward.
On June 18 2013 11:23 Larkin wrote:
On June 18 2013 11:17 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On June 18 2013 11:10 Rainbow Cuddles wrote: Can we not have this kind of stuff on TL? Even the title is triggering
Triggering what?
Public discussion/description of rape can be a trigger to panic attacks etc to people have been raped. When posting sensitive things like this it is generally wise to spoiler tag everything under a big "trigger warning" label.
On topic, this is one of the most horrific things I've seen come out of a civilized nation in quite some time. I hope the fallout from this is severe, and leads to proper legislation to stop rape in the penal system.
How is this more horrific than the male prison rape problem which has long been known and publicly joked about?
Well, at least hopefully, the case of male rape in prison isnt brought about intentionally by the direct actions of the guards. At least thats a moral distinction. You put criminals into a confined space your going to get beatings, rapes and murders-- theres no realistic way of stopping that. But there is a way of ensuring the guards arent adding to those figures.
There's no realistic way stop it but honestly you can do a great deal to prevent it in many cases.
On June 18 2013 11:03 Lockitupv2 wrote: I have a hard time believing in forced oral sex.
I mean, wouldnt the girls just bite down on it?
Nevertheless, this is troubling. Life behind is a mystery to most people and things like this have a hard time getting out to the people who can do something about it.
If there's a gun pointed at your head, do you bite or swallow?
They could still bite it off though, if the guards shot them and killed the prisoners they'd have to give a reason, and the guard would be most likely going to the ER for having his dick bit off. If it happened more than once(which it obviously prolly would) it'd be kinda hard not to put 2+2 = 4 imo.
That's a small comfort for the person who is dead. Most people would rather swallow than die, even if they get to go down hurting their aggressor.
On June 18 2013 11:03 Lockitupv2 wrote: I have a hard time believing in forced oral sex.
I mean, wouldnt the girls just bite down on it?
Nevertheless, this is troubling. Life behind is a mystery to most people and things like this have a hard time getting out to the people who can do something about it.
If there's a gun pointed at your head, do you bite or swallow?
They could still bite it off though, if the guards shot them and killed the prisoners they'd have to give a reason, and the guard would be most likely going to the ER for having his dick bit off. If it happened more than once(which it obviously prolly would) it'd be kinda hard not to put 2+2 = 4 imo.
I agree with you, but when you're in that situation on your knees with a gun pointed to your head, knowing that they can pull the trigger, fear sets in which is the true deterrent imo.
On June 18 2013 11:10 Rainbow Cuddles wrote: Can we not have this kind of stuff on TL? Even the title is triggering
Triggering what?
Memories of assault or rape?....
I don't think think TL has ever been a safe haven for victims though, so I don't see a reason to change the title, we could get rid of all the " insert gamertag was raped" or "insert team name is raping" first, and take a good step forward though.
Becoming a "safe space" (read: politically correct feminist echo chamber) is not a good step forward.
On June 18 2013 11:23 Larkin wrote:
On June 18 2013 11:17 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On June 18 2013 11:10 Rainbow Cuddles wrote: Can we not have this kind of stuff on TL? Even the title is triggering
Triggering what?
Public discussion/description of rape can be a trigger to panic attacks etc to people have been raped. When posting sensitive things like this it is generally wise to spoiler tag everything under a big "trigger warning" label.
On topic, this is one of the most horrific things I've seen come out of a civilized nation in quite some time. I hope the fallout from this is severe, and leads to proper legislation to stop rape in the penal system.
How is this more horrific than the male prison rape problem which has long been known and publicly joked about?
Well, at least hopefully, the case of male rape in prison isnt brought about intentionally by the direct actions of the guards. At least thats a moral distinction. You put criminals into a confined space your going to get beatings, rapes and murders-- theres no realistic way of stopping that. But there is a way of ensuring the guards arent adding to those figures.
On June 18 2013 11:28 Kamais Ookin wrote: Sunprince, I think the difference is that fellow male prisoners are raping one another, whereas in this case it was the guards that were abusing the prisoners. I don't think it's possible to always intervene on the first example, but guards raping prisoners should never happen in the first place.
To respond to both of you, that's actually not the case. A substantial portion of male prison rape is carried out by facility staff.
It happens all the time, but it's apparently only a problem when female inmates are the victims. Male disposability at its finest.
Nothing new, but still disgusting. If it's true, those guardians will end up in prison too, which is kinda ironic. Hopefully the debate will lead to increased controls.
On June 18 2013 09:11 rezzan wrote: one part of my brain says, "theyre in prison for a reason, they only get what they deserve"
and at the sametime i dont know what to think. justified or not. hmm.. ive heard worse in guantanamo bay.
they are in prison to protect society from them, nothing else. Nobody deserves to be raped. Yes, Guantanamo is imo one of the two or three big publicly known stains of the American history. Doesnt make stuff like this any better, just because it's more common.
On June 18 2013 11:10 Rainbow Cuddles wrote: Can we not have this kind of stuff on TL? Even the title is triggering
Triggering what?
Memories of assault or rape?....
I don't think think TL has ever been a safe haven for victims though, so I don't see a reason to change the title, we could get rid of all the " insert gamertag was raped" or "insert team name is raping" first, and take a good step forward though.
Becoming a "safe space" (read: politically correct feminist echo chamber) is not a good step forward.
On June 18 2013 11:23 Larkin wrote:
On June 18 2013 11:17 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On June 18 2013 11:10 Rainbow Cuddles wrote: Can we not have this kind of stuff on TL? Even the title is triggering
Triggering what?
Public discussion/description of rape can be a trigger to panic attacks etc to people have been raped. When posting sensitive things like this it is generally wise to spoiler tag everything under a big "trigger warning" label.
On topic, this is one of the most horrific things I've seen come out of a civilized nation in quite some time. I hope the fallout from this is severe, and leads to proper legislation to stop rape in the penal system.
How is this more horrific than the male prison rape problem which has long been known and publicly joked about?
Well, at least hopefully, the case of male rape in prison isnt brought about intentionally by the direct actions of the guards. At least thats a moral distinction. You put criminals into a confined space your going to get beatings, rapes and murders-- theres no realistic way of stopping that. But there is a way of ensuring the guards arent adding to those figures.
On June 18 2013 11:28 Kamais Ookin wrote: Sunprince, I think the difference is that fellow male prisoners are raping one another, whereas in this case it was the guards that were abusing the prisoners. I don't think it's possible to always intervene on the first example, but guards raping prisoners should never happen in the first place.
To respond to both of you, that's actually not the case. A substantial portion of male prison rape is carried out by facility staff.
It happens all the time, but it's apparently only a problem when female inmates are the victims. Male disposability at its finest.
I honestly did not know guards also raped men in prisons, I'm surprised. If that's the case, I don't think one is worse than the other, in an objective equality standpoint, both are awful and should not be happening.
On June 18 2013 11:10 Rainbow Cuddles wrote: Can we not have this kind of stuff on TL? Even the title is triggering
Triggering what?
Memories of assault or rape?....
I don't think think TL has ever been a safe haven for victims though, so I don't see a reason to change the title, we could get rid of all the " insert gamertag was raped" or "insert team name is raping" first, and take a good step forward though.
Becoming a "safe space" (read: politically correct feminist echo chamber) is not a good step forward.
On June 18 2013 11:23 Larkin wrote:
On June 18 2013 11:17 Lockitupv2 wrote:
On June 18 2013 11:10 Rainbow Cuddles wrote: Can we not have this kind of stuff on TL? Even the title is triggering
Triggering what?
Public discussion/description of rape can be a trigger to panic attacks etc to people have been raped. When posting sensitive things like this it is generally wise to spoiler tag everything under a big "trigger warning" label.
On topic, this is one of the most horrific things I've seen come out of a civilized nation in quite some time. I hope the fallout from this is severe, and leads to proper legislation to stop rape in the penal system.
How is this more horrific than the male prison rape problem which has long been known and publicly joked about?
Well, at least hopefully, the case of male rape in prison isnt brought about intentionally by the direct actions of the guards. At least thats a moral distinction. You put criminals into a confined space your going to get beatings, rapes and murders-- theres no realistic way of stopping that. But there is a way of ensuring the guards arent adding to those figures.
A subtle problem in all of this though is that, prison rape is not a discussion until it is a male raping a female.
Prison guards have been raping inmates for quite some time in male prisons.
Edit: Interestingly enough a quick Google search of "prison guard rapes prisoner" brings up this article about 4 times as much as any other involving male raping male, female raping female, or female raping male.
On June 18 2013 11:03 Lockitupv2 wrote: I have a hard time believing in forced oral sex.
I mean, wouldnt the girls just bite down on it?
Nevertheless, this is troubling. Life behind is a mystery to most people and things like this have a hard time getting out to the people who can do something about it.
If there's a gun pointed at your head, do you bite or swallow?
They could still bite it off though, if the guards shot them and killed the prisoners they'd have to give a reason, and the guard would be most likely going to the ER for having his dick bit off. If it happened more than once(which it obviously prolly would) it'd be kinda hard not to put 2+2 = 4 imo.
Yes, in theory it would work, but attacking someone who has that kind of power over you is still a very risky move for the individual woman, and something that most people in that situation probably wouldn't have the guts to do (I know I wouldn't).
those sick fucks who were temp banned/warned on the first page should be perma-banned. fucking pigs. those are some of the most disgusting posts I've seen on this website. they should be ashamed of themselves.
if those guards did what they are accused of doing, they should be imprisoned for a very, very long time, if not indefinitely.
EPT
