US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9883

On February 11 2018 06:40 Plansix wrote:
I enjoy the conservative mindset that race and gender don’t matter any more, and any alternative viewpoint is an effort to exploit race or gender for personal gain.

On February 11 2018 06:52 Biff The Understudy wrote:

I don't think you believe what you are saying. I assume you know very well that the point of liberals has nothing to do with an "anti white agenda".

The difference between liberal and conservatives is that conservatives pretend that everyone has equal chances and that there is no correction to be made towards minorities (the consequence being that if a minority is doing horribly it's probably because of some inherent flaw of them - maybe that was even the starting point? - but that's not even the point). It's not that your skin colour or gender determine who you are, it's that it affects the opportunities you will have in life.

Liberals consider that the our society is still unfair, that you still have it harder if you are black, or gay, or a woman, and that it needs to be rectified.

We can disagree on that point but don't insult our intelligence with such a ridiculous strawman of the left wing position, please.

On February 11 2018 07:07 NewSunshine wrote:

That's the fallback. Whenever it gets down to it and identity politics gets too intense, suddenly race and gender never mattered, and haven't been a problem in ages, because as a country we "moved on". So when the pundits at Fox News see that Team USA is the most diverse it's ever been, that must mean that minorities are somehow making the team off the back of being a minority alone, and that it couldn't be because they earned their spot.

Because those beliefs don't contradict the message at all.

On February 11 2018 09:16 sc-darkness wrote:
Good news that two Koreas talk to each other, but why don't US approve that? Is it because they don't want unified Korea? Is it skepticism that talks will help?

On February 11 2018 06:52 Biff The Understudy wrote:

I don't think you believe what you are saying. I assume you know very well that the point of liberals has nothing to do with an "anti white agenda".

The difference between liberal and conservatives is that conservatives pretend that everyone has equal chances and that there is no correction to be made towards minorities (the consequence being that if a minority is doing horribly it's probably because of some inherent flaw of them - maybe that was even the starting point? - but that's not even the point). It's not that your skin colour or gender determine who you are, it's that it affects the opportunities you will have in life.

Liberals consider that the our society is still unfair, that you still have it harder if you are black, or gay, or a woman, and that it needs to be rectified.

We can disagree on that point but don't insult our intelligence with such a ridiculous strawman of the left wing position, please.

On February 11 2018 09:16 sc-darkness wrote:
Good news that two Koreas talk to each other, but why don't US approve that? Is it because they don't want unified Korea? Is it skepticism that talks will help?

On February 11 2018 09:16 sc-darkness wrote:
Good news that two Koreas talk to each other, but why don't US approve that? Is it because they don't want unified Korea? Is it skepticism that talks will help?

On February 11 2018 09:26 GoTuNk! wrote:


Not really. I would say "Liberals consider that the our society is still unfair, that you still have it harder if you are black, or gay, or a woman", while conservatives would agree this is true most times, but not always, and more important, the draw backs of correcting percieved injustices are usually worse than the benefits.

On principle, past injustices are not corrected with current injustice, or as someone said so eloquently at some point,
"The best way to stop discrimination by race or gender, is by stopping to discriminate by race or gender."

On February 11 2018 09:31 GreenHorizons wrote:


Literally no one thinks it's true all the time. No one will tell you wealthy black people have it worse than poor white people. But they'll also tell you that you can clean that poor white guy up and send him to the Forest Lake Club but the wealthy Black guy still isn't welcome.

It would be great if we could just flip a switch on discrimination, anyone with any understanding of it knows we can't though.

On February 11 2018 11:25 LegalLord wrote:
The flu has been particularly shitty this year though. Got it about a month ago and I’m still not 100% sure I’m over it. Heard that a nontrivial number of younguns died from it.

On February 11 2018 10:12 Simberto wrote:


Indeed. The simple solution would be if everyone simply stopped discriminating against people. And everyone would be happy if that happened. But it quite apparently does not happen. So instead of wishing it would, one needs to find more effective ways of doing things.

People still have very different views of an otherwise identical person based on the colour of their skin, their sex, or their sexuality. And just hoping that that stops does not make it stop. (If you do not believe that, just observe yourself when a person of an uncommon skin colour (in your location) takes the seat opposite of yours in the tram, and compare that reaction to how you react when a person of your own skin colour takes that seat)

The same argument could be used to get rid of any military whatsoever. Because the only point of having a military is to fight other peoples military. So the simple and effective way of saving enormous amounts of resources worldwide would be for everyone to stop having a military. I find it weird that the same people who champion this way of solving things with regards to conflicts based on discrimination within a nation do not want to use it for conflicts between nations.

On February 11 2018 09:20 OuchyDathurts wrote:


The country is run by children is the answer. Odds are this goes nowhere, but there's no reason to not be encouraging and helpful to the situation other than being a petty child.

The United States intelligence community has been conducting a top-secret operation to recover stolen classified U.S. government documents from Russian operatives, according to sources familiar with the matter. The operation has also inadvertently yielded a cache of documents purporting to relate to Donald Trump and Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election.

Over the past year, American intelligence officials have opened a secret communications channel with the Russian operatives, who have been seeking to sell both Trump-related materials and documents stolen from the National Security Agency and obtained by Russian intelligence, according to people involved with the matter and other documentary evidence. The channel started developing in early 2017, when American and Russian intermediaries began meeting in Germany. Eventually, a Russian intermediary, apparently representing some elements of the Russian intelligence community, agreed to a deal to sell stolen NSA documents back to the U.S. while also seeking to include Trump-related materials in the package.

The CIA declined to comment on the operation. The NSA did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

The secret U.S. intelligence channel with the Russians is separate from efforts by former British intelligence officer Christopher Steele to obtain information about Trump and his ties with Russia. Steele worked with Fusion GPS, an American private investigations firm that was first hired by Republican and later Democratic opponents of Trump to dig up information on him during the 2016 campaign.

By contrast, the more recent secret negotiations began after Trump’s election and have been conducted by U.S. intelligence officials working with intermediaries who mainly operate in Europe. When American intelligence officials initiated efforts to broker a communications channel in 2017, however, their primary objective was to recover stolen NSA documents, not to obtain material about Trump.

At the time, the NSA was desperate to recover documents that intelligence officials believed Russia had obtained through a mysterious group known as the Shadow Brokers. The group stole highly secret NSA hacking tools and began releasing them on the internet in the summer of 2016. The Shadow Brokers theft of the hacking tools devastated morale at the NSA, putting its custom-built offensive cyber weapons out in the open. It was as if a bioweapons laboratory had lost some of its most deadly and dangerous viruses. U.S. officials wanted to identify which NSA documents the Shadow Brokers had stolen, so they could determine how badly the agency had been damaged by the theft.

But once the communications channel opened, the Russians on the other side offered to sell documents related to Trump along with the stolen NSA documents.

A Russian who has been acting as a go-between for other Russians with access to Russian government materials has sought payment for the materials he is offering. In an extensive interview with The Intercept in Germany, the Russian intermediary provided detailed information about the channel. When contacted by The Intercept for this story, the American intermediary declined to comment.

On February 11 2018 15:16 a_flayer wrote:

Agreed, as long as you acknowledge that this attitude towards peace on the Korean peninsula has not been substantially different under Obama, Bush or Clinton. The US only wants peace on their non-negotiable conditions, or else. Kind of like with Japan in '45.



Meanwhile, this should give the conservatives some fodder against the intelligence community:


Source

On February 11 2018 08:15 a_flayer wrote:

Meanwhile, reasonable people consider that it is probably a lot easier to be successful if you grow up in a well-connected rich black family compared to growing up in a disconnected poor white family whilst still being aware that for historical reasons there are relatively more disconnected poor black people and at the same time not ignoring blatant systematical racism such as white supremacists in law enforcement.

On February 11 2018 09:26 GoTuNk! wrote:


Not really. I would say "Liberals consider that the our society is still unfair, that you still have it harder if you are black, or gay, or a woman", while conservatives would agree this is true most times, but not always, and more important, the draw backs of correcting percieved injustices are usually worse than the benefits.

On principle, past injustices are not corrected with current injustice, or as someone said so eloquently at some point,
"The best way to stop discrimination by race or gender, is by stopping to discriminate by race or gender."