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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9803

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
mustaju
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Estonia4504 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-30 12:00:45
January 30 2018 11:59 GMT
#196041
I recently came across this in an Estonian culture publication. It seems to provide a quite thorough counter-argument to the claim that the protests at the US universities regarding controversial speakers is a major issue. It seems rather well-sourced as well. It did not address the violence accompanying some events however, but since this seems to come up so often, maybe it is interesting to other people too. I did not see it posted, so apologies if it's spam.
Source
WriterBrows somewhat high. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndFysO2JunE
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
January 30 2018 12:10 GMT
#196042
I think the culture wars in the US are hitting peak crazy right now:

farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18826 Posts
January 30 2018 12:14 GMT
#196043
That tweet doesn't even make any sense and I would hesitate before using it as an example of anything other than hyperbolic twitter folk. The NYT has its issues trying to straddle what it considers the center, but come on.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21667 Posts
January 30 2018 12:19 GMT
#196044
So, the NYT is a fake liberal news and a white supremacist pro Trump paper.

I am very confused right now.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
January 30 2018 12:20 GMT
#196045
On January 30 2018 21:14 farvacola wrote:
That tweet doesn't even make any sense and I would hesitate before using it as an example of anything other than hyperbolic twitter folk. The NYT has its issues trying to straddle what it considers the center, but come on.


She's a popular liberal writer, you tell me.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18826 Posts
January 30 2018 12:29 GMT
#196046
Popular according to whom? Her credentials are basically "someone who has their own website and sometimes writes leftwing shock articles."
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Dan HH
Profile Joined July 2012
Romania9118 Posts
January 30 2018 12:30 GMT
#196047
On January 30 2018 21:19 Gorsameth wrote:
So, the NYT is a fake liberal news and a white supremacist pro Trump paper.

I am very confused right now.

Basically conservatives get mad at editorials written by left-leaning NYT columnists and liberals get mad at editorials written by right-leaning NYT columnists.
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
January 30 2018 12:50 GMT
#196048
On January 30 2018 21:29 farvacola wrote:
Popular according to whom? Her credentials are basically "someone who has their own website and sometimes writes leftwing shock articles."


Popular enough to be have 340k twitter followers, and have been published mulitple times by NBC, Globe and Mail, Al jazeera, Foreign Policy, Politico, the Guardian, the New York Times, a bunch of outlets you haven't heard of I'm sure.
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
January 30 2018 12:53 GMT
#196049
Not sure if this means that NYT is doing a excellent job at balancing their editorials or that they just have bad columnists.
Neosteel Enthusiast
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-30 12:54:46
January 30 2018 12:54 GMT
#196050
This article nails for me the whole grotesque sideshow this presidency has become:

The Useful Idiocy of Donald Trump

The problem with Donald Trump is not that he is imbecilic and inept—it is that he has surrendered total power to the oligarchic and military elites. They get what they want. They do what they want. Although the president is a one-man wrecking crew aimed at democratic norms and institutions, although he has turned the United States into a laughingstock around the globe, our national crisis is embodied not in Trump but the corporate state’s now unfettered pillage.

Trump, who has no inclination or ability to govern, has handed the machinery of government over to the bankers, corporate executives, right-wing think tanks, intelligence chiefs and generals. They are eradicating the few regulations and laws that inhibited a naked kleptocracy. They are dynamiting the institutions, including the State Department, that served interests other than corporate profit and are stacking the courts with right-wing, corporate-controlled ideologues. Trump provides the daily entertainment; the elites handle the business of looting, exploiting and destroying.

Once democratic institutions are hollowed out, a process begun before the election of Trump, despotism is inevitable. The press is shackled. Corruption and theft take place on a massive scale. The rights and needs of citizens are irrelevant. Dissent is criminalized. Militarized police monitor, seize and detain Americans without probable cause. The rituals of democracy become farce. This is the road we are traveling. It is a road that leads to internal collapse and tyranny, and we are very far down it.

The elites’ moral and intellectual vacuum produced Trump. They too are con artists. They are slicker than he at selling the lies and more adept at disguising their greed through absurd ideologies such as neoliberalism and globalization, but they belong to the same criminal class and share many of the pathologies that characterize Trump. The grotesque visage of Trump is the true face of politicians such as George W. Bush, Bill and Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. The Clintons and Obama, unlike Bush and Trump, are self-aware and therefore cynical, but all lack a moral compass. As Michael Wolff writes in “Fire and Fury: Inside the Trump White House,” the president has “no scruples.” He lives “outside the rules” and is “contemptuous of them.” And this makes him identical to those he has replaced, not different. “A close Trump friend who was also a good Bill Clinton friend found them eerily similar—except that Clinton had a respectable front and Trump did not,” Wolff writes.

...

Yes, the elites wish Trump would act more presidential. It would help the brand. But all attempts by the elites to make Trump conform to the outward norms embraced by most public officials have failed. Trump will not be reformed by criticism from the establishment. Republican Sens. Jeff Flake of Arizona and Bob Corker of Tennessee, who denounced Trump, saw their approval ratings plummet and have decided not to run for re-election. Trump may have public approval of only 39 percent overall, but among Republicans the figure is 78 percent. And I don’t think those numbers will decrease.

The inability of the political establishment and the press to moderate or reform Trump’s egregious behavior is rooted in their loss of credibility. The press, along with political and intellectual elites, spent decades championing economic and political policies that solidified corporate power and betrayed and impoverished American workers. The hypocrisy and mendacity of the elites left them despised and distrusted by the victims of deindustrialization and austerity programs. The attempt to restore civility to public discourse and competency to political office is, therefore, fruitless. Liberal and establishment institutions, including the leadership of the two main political parties, academia and the press, squandered their moral authority. And the dogged refusal by the elites to address the engine of discontent—social inequality—ensures that they will remain ineffectual. They lay down the asphalt for the buffoonery of Trump and the coming tyranny.

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/useful-idiocy-donald-trump/
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18826 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-30 13:05:06
January 30 2018 13:00 GMT
#196051
On January 30 2018 21:50 tomatriedes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2018 21:29 farvacola wrote:
Popular according to whom? Her credentials are basically "someone who has their own website and sometimes writes leftwing shock articles."


Popular enough to be have 340k twitter followers, and have been published mulitple times by NBC, Globe and Mail, Al jazeera, Foreign Policy, Politico, the Guardian, the New York Times, a bunch of outlets you haven't heard of I'm sure.

I'm sure she appreciates the website hit and exposure.

That Hedges article, while a bit over the top, is pretty on point in terms of what is being done through Trump. It'll be many years before the damage can be undone, if ever.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-30 13:08:05
January 30 2018 13:07 GMT
#196052
that article atreides posted seems inapt to me; feels like an overreach on its attacks on the elites. seems more like an anti-everyone rant/venting. I wonder what policies they actually propose.
it's starting points on trump are decent, but then it just gets out there.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7888 Posts
January 30 2018 13:14 GMT
#196053
On January 30 2018 21:53 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Not sure if this means that NYT is doing a excellent job at balancing their editorials or that they just have bad columnists.

The fact that hysterical twats from both side call it all kind of names is a badge of honour for the NYT.

The NYT really shows that you can have a clear political leaning and remain fair, balanced and smart. I have read newspapers daily since I was 12 and this is certainly the best one I have found.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
January 30 2018 14:33 GMT
#196054
I just want this investigation to be over so I can know if we're turning into Russia, or Trump is being removed.
Life?
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
January 30 2018 14:47 GMT
#196055
On January 30 2018 21:10 tomatriedes wrote:
I think the culture wars in the US are hitting peak crazy right now:

https://twitter.com/sarahkendzior/status/957411344688603136

That’s just the radical left wing. Hearing both sides is white supremacy.

The normal left wingers think it’s all some shade of racism, but know it’s foolish to go full race card politics.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 30 2018 14:47 GMT
#196056
On January 30 2018 22:14 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 30 2018 21:53 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Not sure if this means that NYT is doing a excellent job at balancing their editorials or that they just have bad columnists.

The fact that hysterical twats from both side call it all kind of names is a badge of honour for the NYT.

The NYT really shows that you can have a clear political leaning and remain fair, balanced and smart. I have read newspapers daily since I was 12 and this is certainly the best one I have found.

Many people also don’t understand that the news and editorial departments are completely separate and don't interact. At many papers they often are at odds with each other.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
January 30 2018 14:57 GMT
#196057
So, is Trump going to waffle vaguely about the Nunes memo, reference it ominously and deceptively in his State of the Union, then release it in 5 days, at which point the right wing media will simply say "the memo is out and implicates Rosenstein" rather than comment on its content?

Or will he actually release the memo he's been demanding released before he gets to spin it, undoubtedly inaccurately because he is an incompetent buffoon, at the State of the Union?
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
January 30 2018 14:58 GMT
#196058
On January 30 2018 21:54 tomatriedes wrote:
This article nails for me the whole grotesque sideshow this presidency has become:

Show nested quote +
The Useful Idiocy of Donald Trump

The problem with Donald Trump is not that he is imbecilic and inept—it is that he has surrendered total power to the oligarchic and military elites. They get what they want. They do what they want. Although the president is a one-man wrecking crew aimed at democratic norms and institutions, although he has turned the United States into a laughingstock around the globe, our national crisis is embodied not in Trump but the corporate state’s now unfettered pillage.

Trump, who has no inclination or ability to govern, has handed the machinery of government over to the bankers, corporate executives, right-wing think tanks, intelligence chiefs and generals. They are eradicating the few regulations and laws that inhibited a naked kleptocracy. They are dynamiting the institutions, including the State Department, that served interests other than corporate profit and are stacking the courts with right-wing, corporate-controlled ideologues. Trump provides the daily entertainment; the elites handle the business of looting, exploiting and destroying.

Once democratic institutions are hollowed out, a process begun before the election of Trump, despotism is inevitable. The press is shackled. Corruption and theft take place on a massive scale. The rights and needs of citizens are irrelevant. Dissent is criminalized. Militarized police monitor, seize and detain Americans without probable cause. The rituals of democracy become farce. This is the road we are traveling. It is a road that leads to internal collapse and tyranny, and we are very far down it.

The elites’ moral and intellectual vacuum produced Trump. They too are con artists. They are slicker than he at selling the lies and more adept at disguising their greed through absurd ideologies such as neoliberalism and globalization, but they belong to the same criminal class and share many of the pathologies that characterize Trump. The grotesque visage of Trump is the true face of politicians such as George W. Bush, Bill and Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. The Clintons and Obama, unlike Bush and Trump, are self-aware and therefore cynical, but all lack a moral compass. As Michael Wolff writes in “Fire and Fury: Inside the Trump White House,” the president has “no scruples.” He lives “outside the rules” and is “contemptuous of them.” And this makes him identical to those he has replaced, not different. “A close Trump friend who was also a good Bill Clinton friend found them eerily similar—except that Clinton had a respectable front and Trump did not,” Wolff writes.

...

Yes, the elites wish Trump would act more presidential. It would help the brand. But all attempts by the elites to make Trump conform to the outward norms embraced by most public officials have failed. Trump will not be reformed by criticism from the establishment. Republican Sens. Jeff Flake of Arizona and Bob Corker of Tennessee, who denounced Trump, saw their approval ratings plummet and have decided not to run for re-election. Trump may have public approval of only 39 percent overall, but among Republicans the figure is 78 percent. And I don’t think those numbers will decrease.

The inability of the political establishment and the press to moderate or reform Trump’s egregious behavior is rooted in their loss of credibility. The press, along with political and intellectual elites, spent decades championing economic and political policies that solidified corporate power and betrayed and impoverished American workers. The hypocrisy and mendacity of the elites left them despised and distrusted by the victims of deindustrialization and austerity programs. The attempt to restore civility to public discourse and competency to political office is, therefore, fruitless. Liberal and establishment institutions, including the leadership of the two main political parties, academia and the press, squandered their moral authority. And the dogged refusal by the elites to address the engine of discontent—social inequality—ensures that they will remain ineffectual. They lay down the asphalt for the buffoonery of Trump and the coming tyranny.

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/useful-idiocy-donald-trump/

The article gets some things right. Its a little too conspiratorial on the roots. The DC elites are more incompetent than slick con artists. America is also not doomed to despotism. It’s just in a fight against a shade of it that’s very rooted in Washington politics and left/liberal population.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 30 2018 15:08 GMT
#196059
It is sort of hard to by the argument that the “elites” are liberal when Republicans have dominated DC for a decade and a half. The rot in Washington is equally spread, but there are simply more Republicans there.

Also that article over uses the term elite, which is not an accurate description of the average house representative. It is a throw away term used to paint them all as “over educated” and out of touch.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain17983 Posts
January 30 2018 15:11 GMT
#196060
On January 31 2018 00:08 Plansix wrote:
It is sort of hard to by the argument that the “elites” are liberal when Republicans have dominated DC for a decade and a half. The rot in Washington is equally spread, but there are simply more Republicans there.

Also that article over uses the term elite, which is not an accurate description of the average house representative. It is a throw away term used to paint them all as “over educated” and out of touch.

From where danglars is standing most republicans are "left" and "liberal"
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