|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On January 13 2018 05:37 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 05:19 Ghostcom wrote:
Well last year it was like 502 Norwegians that immigrated last year so it's not like they are flocking to the place.
EDIT: Bullshit about science only being cutting edge in the US. Plenty of cutting edge research happening elsewhere, including Norway. And US academia is really not preferable due to the publish or perish bullshit going on. Collaborations can take you plenty far. You can say that but then you look at MIT and the southern California schools doing crazy stuff with rockets. Europe isn't really that interested in rocket tech and MIT is the cutting edge.
You can bring up rockets, I can bring up other fields in which Europe blows US out of the water (e.g. a Danish company supplies NASA with instruments to measure magnetic fields to be placed in satellites). Fact remains that plenty of cutting edge is being carried out in the US and plenty is being carried out in Europe or other parts of the world. Australia blows us all out of the water when it comes to treatment of spinal injuries.
This is not to discredit what the US does, but you can easily stay in Norway and have an absolute brilliant career.
|
On January 13 2018 05:47 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 05:43 Ghostcom wrote:On January 13 2018 05:20 Mohdoo wrote:On January 13 2018 05:18 KwarK wrote:
Probably for the best that you're not in HR Mohdoo because I don't think "look, we have so many qualified applicants that I figured I could still get a variety of well qualified candidates if I narrowed the selection to just white men while saving everyone a lot of time" would fly. lol why are you pretending I am applying racial filters to job hiring? I specifically said education level. You're being a little silly today. On January 13 2018 05:19 Ghostcom wrote:
Well last year it was like 502 Norwegians that immigrated last year so it's not like they are flocking to the place.
EDIT: Bullshit about science only being cutting edge in the US. Plenty of cutting edge research happening elsewhere, including Norway. And US academia is really not preferable due to the publish or perish bullshit going on. Collaborations can take you plenty far. What specific branch of science do you work in? You don't need to work in academia to work in stem. Don't forget all the tech companies based in the US. Intel's entire R&D thrust is in the US for a reason. Certain countries here and there have good work being done in little areas here and there, but by and large, your ability to grow and advance as a scientist is significantly greater in the states. There's a big difference between a country being in 90 percentile and being at the top. The gap is still really, really big today. As I said, Norway does some good work. So do lots of countries. But the opportunities in the US are incomparably better. I'm in medical sciences. My father and sister is in chemistry. Best friends are in biology and physics. US does some things well, but they are far away from being anywhere near as ahead as you believe. As I've said, I'm sure all of them do great work. It's not about whether you do well. It is about the difference between 90 and 100. A ton of people chase 100. Your career can "cap out" in a way in Norway that is simply won't unless you're Einstein in the US.
Denmark is literally world leading in my field, my sister's field and my father's field. You are delusional.
EDIT: I'm done with this pissing contest. Have a good night.
|
On January 13 2018 05:50 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 05:47 Mohdoo wrote:On January 13 2018 05:43 Ghostcom wrote:On January 13 2018 05:20 Mohdoo wrote:On January 13 2018 05:18 KwarK wrote:
Probably for the best that you're not in HR Mohdoo because I don't think "look, we have so many qualified applicants that I figured I could still get a variety of well qualified candidates if I narrowed the selection to just white men while saving everyone a lot of time" would fly. lol why are you pretending I am applying racial filters to job hiring? I specifically said education level. You're being a little silly today. On January 13 2018 05:19 Ghostcom wrote:
Well last year it was like 502 Norwegians that immigrated last year so it's not like they are flocking to the place.
EDIT: Bullshit about science only being cutting edge in the US. Plenty of cutting edge research happening elsewhere, including Norway. And US academia is really not preferable due to the publish or perish bullshit going on. Collaborations can take you plenty far. What specific branch of science do you work in? You don't need to work in academia to work in stem. Don't forget all the tech companies based in the US. Intel's entire R&D thrust is in the US for a reason. Certain countries here and there have good work being done in little areas here and there, but by and large, your ability to grow and advance as a scientist is significantly greater in the states. There's a big difference between a country being in 90 percentile and being at the top. The gap is still really, really big today. As I said, Norway does some good work. So do lots of countries. But the opportunities in the US are incomparably better. I'm in medical sciences. My father and sister is in chemistry. Best friends are in biology and physics. US does some things well, but they are far away from being anywhere near as ahead as you believe. As I've said, I'm sure all of them do great work. It's not about whether you do well. It is about the difference between 90 and 100. A ton of people chase 100. Your career can "cap out" in a way in Norway that is simply won't unless you're Einstein in the US. Denmark is literally world leading in my field, my sister's field and my father's field. You are delusional.
This isn't uncommon. Japan is freakishly good at making photoresist. Is Japan a world leader in chemistry? Definitely not. There are all sorts of niches around the world. Even China is really good at particular stuff.
|
On January 13 2018 05:40 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 05:31 Herpin_Along wrote:On January 13 2018 05:19 Mohdoo wrote:On January 13 2018 05:16 NewSunshine wrote:On January 13 2018 05:12 Mohdoo wrote:
Norwegians are doing just fine. They'd LIKE to live here, but let's not pretend they are suffering right now. Even then, I don't see a whole lot of reason why someone living in Norway would want to come to America. They have UHC, actual maternity/paternity leave, actual work-life balance with shorter work-weeks than we do, less crime, and a much better education system. Maybe if they just really can't stand the cold? Anyone working in science should want to leave Norway for the US immediately. Norway is kind of a joke when it comes to scientific advancement. So is most of the world compared to the US. Japan only has a single scientific journal worth using for more than wiping your own ass. Assuming they are looking to be on the cutting edge or whatever. But as a whole, living in Norway will significantly disable your career progress compared to working in the states. Dude wtf are you talking about, host country "prestigious scientific journals" is such a silly way to evaluate performance in science. At the least a bit better of a metric would be pubs per capita, but that's not even very good due to lack of info on the strength of the publications. See here for a brief ranking of per-capita publications, anyways: https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/18767/research-publications-per-capitaA better metric might incorporate the quantity of citations of those publications or maybe even something like technological patents, but in either case "scientific strength", like most poorly defined yet complex issues, is a difficult thing to quantify. But in the field I work in Scandinavian countries do just fine and are leaders in a lot of areas of research that are particularly applicable for them. Publications per capita aren't relevant. Just look at China. I don't think many countries manage to be as much of a joke in the international chemistry community than China. You're focusing on the wrong thing. # of Nobel prizes would be a lot closer to showing reality. No one cares if you published. People care if you publish something special. In terms of becoming a truly distinct, globally recognized researcher, no one comes close to the US. For people (unlike me) who are focused on reaching the top of the mountain, there is no other place to be than the US.
Sure, so lets look at Nobel Prizes per capita
US is 15th.
Norway is 6e.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_laureates_per_capita
But hey, its all bullshit metrics anyway.
|
On January 13 2018 05:53 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 05:40 Mohdoo wrote:On January 13 2018 05:31 Herpin_Along wrote:On January 13 2018 05:19 Mohdoo wrote:On January 13 2018 05:16 NewSunshine wrote:On January 13 2018 05:12 Mohdoo wrote:
Norwegians are doing just fine. They'd LIKE to live here, but let's not pretend they are suffering right now. Even then, I don't see a whole lot of reason why someone living in Norway would want to come to America. They have UHC, actual maternity/paternity leave, actual work-life balance with shorter work-weeks than we do, less crime, and a much better education system. Maybe if they just really can't stand the cold? Anyone working in science should want to leave Norway for the US immediately. Norway is kind of a joke when it comes to scientific advancement. So is most of the world compared to the US. Japan only has a single scientific journal worth using for more than wiping your own ass. Assuming they are looking to be on the cutting edge or whatever. But as a whole, living in Norway will significantly disable your career progress compared to working in the states. Dude wtf are you talking about, host country "prestigious scientific journals" is such a silly way to evaluate performance in science. At the least a bit better of a metric would be pubs per capita, but that's not even very good due to lack of info on the strength of the publications. See here for a brief ranking of per-capita publications, anyways: https://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/18767/research-publications-per-capitaA better metric might incorporate the quantity of citations of those publications or maybe even something like technological patents, but in either case "scientific strength", like most poorly defined yet complex issues, is a difficult thing to quantify. But in the field I work in Scandinavian countries do just fine and are leaders in a lot of areas of research that are particularly applicable for them. Publications per capita aren't relevant. Just look at China. I don't think many countries manage to be as much of a joke in the international chemistry community than China. You're focusing on the wrong thing. # of Nobel prizes would be a lot closer to showing reality. No one cares if you published. People care if you publish something special. In terms of becoming a truly distinct, globally recognized researcher, no one comes close to the US. For people (unlike me) who are focused on reaching the top of the mountain, there is no other place to be than the US. Sure, so lets look at Nobel Prizes per capita US is 15th. Norway is 6e. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_laureates_per_capitaBut hey, its all bullshit metrics anyway.
Per capita doesn't determine the quality of work being churned out by a country. That is more of a reflection of the fact that they are a much more educated people. It is about # of total achievements. It is apples to oranges because Norway simply doesn't have the money to do as much as the US does. The US is 60x the size of Norway. Norway would have to be freaks of nature to keep up with the US in nobel prizes.
Countries like Norway tend to get hyper specialized because once someone achieves something big, people flock. That's why, as Ghostcom pointed out, they have amazing magnetic sensing. Once someone does something major, people flock.
There are all sorts of examples of this around the world. Like Japan and photoresist.
EDIT: Also worth pointing out I would choose to work in my field in Norway rather than the US. The question was why someone from Norway would move to the US. I pointed out the whole "chase the top" dream that many people here have. I think it is dumb. But it is indeed true that if you are looking to surround yourself with leaders in a field, the US is mostly the place to go.
|
All right, that is enough American Exceptionalism for one day. We do cool stuff, just like everyone else. There are plenty of reasons not to come to America, including American citizens and our lack luster public education system.
|
Maybe a way to put it is that the US is a pretty good choice no matter what field you're interested in given the sheer size of the country's academic and research system.
|
On January 13 2018 06:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
Maybe a way to put it is that the US is a pretty good choice no matter what field you're interested in given the sheer size of the country's academic and research system.
But only in Massachusetts and New Jersey. Anywhere else is pretty much an educational backwater.
|
On January 13 2018 06:08 Plansix wrote:
All right, that is enough American Exceptionalism for one day. We do cool stuff, just like everyone else. There are plenty of reasons not to come to America, including American citizens and our lack luster public education system.
Most of whats being discussed is whats wrong with america by mostly non Americans. Its hardly American exceptionalism to say that the USA isn't a shithole and actually has good things about it.
On January 13 2018 06:14 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 06:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
Maybe a way to put it is that the US is a pretty good choice no matter what field you're interested in given the sheer size of the country's academic and research system. But only in Massachusetts and New Jersey. Anywhere else is pretty much an educational backwater.
I mean I get Mass but who ever heard of Jersey and thought "thats a good place to live"?
|
On January 13 2018 06:14 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 06:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
Maybe a way to put it is that the US is a pretty good choice no matter what field you're interested in given the sheer size of the country's academic and research system. But only in Massachusetts and New Jersey. Anywhere else is pretty much an educational backwater.
Which is why the whole argument is sort of silly. America is pretty impressive when paired against Norway. We are way less impressive when paired against all of Europe.
|
On January 13 2018 06:16 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 06:08 Plansix wrote:
All right, that is enough American Exceptionalism for one day. We do cool stuff, just like everyone else. There are plenty of reasons not to come to America, including American citizens and our lack luster public education system. Most of whats being discussed is whats wrong with america by mostly non Americans. Its hardly American exceptionalism to say that the USA isn't a shithole and actually has good things about it. Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 06:14 LegalLord wrote:On January 13 2018 06:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
Maybe a way to put it is that the US is a pretty good choice no matter what field you're interested in given the sheer size of the country's academic and research system. But only in Massachusetts and New Jersey. Anywhere else is pretty much an educational backwater. I mean I get Mass but who ever heard of Jersey and thought "thats a good place to live"?
If we put aside Chris Christie and the obscenely high property taxes, New Jersey is a great place to live 
|
On January 13 2018 06:17 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 06:14 LegalLord wrote:On January 13 2018 06:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
Maybe a way to put it is that the US is a pretty good choice no matter what field you're interested in given the sheer size of the country's academic and research system. But only in Massachusetts and New Jersey. Anywhere else is pretty much an educational backwater. Which is why the whole argument is sort of silly. America is pretty impressive when paired against Norway. We are way less impressive when paired against all of Europe.
Have you ever thought that terrain wise Europe is like america flipped. Like Spain is like Florida and Germany is like the American northwest? Scandinavia is there and new england is england man. I guess that makes texas our Italy tho.
|
On January 13 2018 06:21 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 06:17 Plansix wrote:On January 13 2018 06:14 LegalLord wrote:On January 13 2018 06:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
Maybe a way to put it is that the US is a pretty good choice no matter what field you're interested in given the sheer size of the country's academic and research system. But only in Massachusetts and New Jersey. Anywhere else is pretty much an educational backwater. Which is why the whole argument is sort of silly. America is pretty impressive when paired against Norway. We are way less impressive when paired against all of Europe. Have you ever thought that terrain wise Europe is like america flipped. Like Spain is like Florida and Germany is like the American northwest? Scandinavia is there and new england is england man. I guess that makes texas our Italy tho.
Italy is Rhode Island and no one can tell me otherwise. Both are lawless lands with pretty good food.
Edit: But there is no California in the Europe. There is no weird ass county that is way to big for its own good and sort of resents being as huge as it is.
|
On January 13 2018 06:27 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 06:21 Sermokala wrote:On January 13 2018 06:17 Plansix wrote:On January 13 2018 06:14 LegalLord wrote:On January 13 2018 06:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
Maybe a way to put it is that the US is a pretty good choice no matter what field you're interested in given the sheer size of the country's academic and research system. But only in Massachusetts and New Jersey. Anywhere else is pretty much an educational backwater. Which is why the whole argument is sort of silly. America is pretty impressive when paired against Norway. We are way less impressive when paired against all of Europe. Have you ever thought that terrain wise Europe is like america flipped. Like Spain is like Florida and Germany is like the American northwest? Scandinavia is there and new england is england man. I guess that makes texas our Italy tho. Italy is Rhode Island and no one can tell me otherwise. Both are lawless lands with pretty good food. Edit: But there is no California in the Europe. There is no weird ass county that is way to big for its own good and sort of resents being as huge as it is.
Maybe Austria is the northwest and Germany is cali?
|
|
|
|
|
On January 13 2018 06:32 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 06:27 Plansix wrote:On January 13 2018 06:21 Sermokala wrote:On January 13 2018 06:17 Plansix wrote:On January 13 2018 06:14 LegalLord wrote:On January 13 2018 06:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
Maybe a way to put it is that the US is a pretty good choice no matter what field you're interested in given the sheer size of the country's academic and research system. But only in Massachusetts and New Jersey. Anywhere else is pretty much an educational backwater. Which is why the whole argument is sort of silly. America is pretty impressive when paired against Norway. We are way less impressive when paired against all of Europe. Have you ever thought that terrain wise Europe is like america flipped. Like Spain is like Florida and Germany is like the American northwest? Scandinavia is there and new england is england man. I guess that makes texas our Italy tho. Italy is Rhode Island and no one can tell me otherwise. Both are lawless lands with pretty good food. Edit: But there is no California in the Europe. There is no weird ass county that is way to big for its own good and sort of resents being as huge as it is. Maybe Austria is the northwest and Germany is cali?
I don’t’ know who would be more upset by that comparison, California or Germany. And its hard to envision California without the menace of the Pacific ocean.
On January 13 2018 06:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 06:16 Sermokala wrote:On January 13 2018 06:08 Plansix wrote:
All right, that is enough American Exceptionalism for one day. We do cool stuff, just like everyone else. There are plenty of reasons not to come to America, including American citizens and our lack luster public education system. Most of whats being discussed is whats wrong with america by mostly non Americans. Its hardly American exceptionalism to say that the USA isn't a shithole and actually has good things about it. On January 13 2018 06:14 LegalLord wrote:On January 13 2018 06:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
Maybe a way to put it is that the US is a pretty good choice no matter what field you're interested in given the sheer size of the country's academic and research system. But only in Massachusetts and New Jersey. Anywhere else is pretty much an educational backwater. I mean I get Mass but who ever heard of Jersey and thought "thats a good place to live"? If we put aside Chris Christie and the obscenely high property taxes, New Jersey is a great place to live
I don’t want to hear any bitching about property taxes. And New Jersey is a very pretty state once you get pass the part that New York pooped all over.
|
On January 13 2018 06:32 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2018 06:27 Plansix wrote:On January 13 2018 06:21 Sermokala wrote:On January 13 2018 06:17 Plansix wrote:On January 13 2018 06:14 LegalLord wrote:On January 13 2018 06:12 ticklishmusic wrote:
Maybe a way to put it is that the US is a pretty good choice no matter what field you're interested in given the sheer size of the country's academic and research system. But only in Massachusetts and New Jersey. Anywhere else is pretty much an educational backwater. Which is why the whole argument is sort of silly. America is pretty impressive when paired against Norway. We are way less impressive when paired against all of Europe. Have you ever thought that terrain wise Europe is like america flipped. Like Spain is like Florida and Germany is like the American northwest? Scandinavia is there and new england is england man. I guess that makes texas our Italy tho. Italy is Rhode Island and no one can tell me otherwise. Both are lawless lands with pretty good food. Edit: But there is no California in the Europe. There is no weird ass county that is way to big for its own good and sort of resents being as huge as it is. Maybe Austria is the northwest and Germany is cali?
Austria is probably less ethnically homogenous than the Northwest
|
|
|
I forget which person you are: are you being serious or facetious?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
