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On January 12 2018 02:10 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2018 01:00 bo1b wrote:On January 12 2018 00:51 Plansix wrote:
Poorly thought out protest as universities is a post WW2 American tradition and nothing new. Funny enough, Nixon is the one who really started to slam the higher education for being overly “liberal” and filled with hippies. It is a narrative that pre-dates most of us. I'm sure that the Ancient Romans had their version of it too. Hey, you made the claim that the far left and wild, unreasonable protests was somehow a new thing in universities in the US. I just pointed out that the 1960s and 1970s existed people made the exact same argument. That argument is almost 70 years old at this point. If not older.
I made the claim we're seeing more of it in recent years, I didn't make the claim it was a brand new thing. Just like the person I was talking to didn't make the claim the far right was a brand new thing either.
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On January 12 2018 09:44 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2018 02:10 Plansix wrote:On January 12 2018 01:00 bo1b wrote:On January 12 2018 00:51 Plansix wrote:
Poorly thought out protest as universities is a post WW2 American tradition and nothing new. Funny enough, Nixon is the one who really started to slam the higher education for being overly “liberal” and filled with hippies. It is a narrative that pre-dates most of us. I'm sure that the Ancient Romans had their version of it too. Hey, you made the claim that the far left and wild, unreasonable protests was somehow a new thing in universities in the US. I just pointed out that the 1960s and 1970s existed people made the exact same argument. That argument is almost 70 years old at this point. If not older. I made the claim we're seeing more of it in recent years, I didn't make the claim it was a brand new thing. Just like the person I was talking to didn't make the claim the far right was a brand new thing either.
I rather doubt what we're seein gnow is stronger than what the SDS was doin gback in those days. and there's also a difference between it occurring more, and "seeing it more"; part of the thin gnow is that certain elements of the right have made a point of trumpeting such instances to rally support for themselves, thus making them seem more common than they actually are.
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On January 12 2018 09:57 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2018 09:44 bo1b wrote:On January 12 2018 02:10 Plansix wrote:On January 12 2018 01:00 bo1b wrote:On January 12 2018 00:51 Plansix wrote:
Poorly thought out protest as universities is a post WW2 American tradition and nothing new. Funny enough, Nixon is the one who really started to slam the higher education for being overly “liberal” and filled with hippies. It is a narrative that pre-dates most of us. I'm sure that the Ancient Romans had their version of it too. Hey, you made the claim that the far left and wild, unreasonable protests was somehow a new thing in universities in the US. I just pointed out that the 1960s and 1970s existed people made the exact same argument. That argument is almost 70 years old at this point. If not older. I made the claim we're seeing more of it in recent years, I didn't make the claim it was a brand new thing. Just like the person I was talking to didn't make the claim the far right was a brand new thing either. I rather doubt what we're seein gnow is stronger than what the SDS was doin gback in those days. and there's also a difference between it occurring more, and "seeing it more"; part of the thin gnow is that certain elements of the right have made a point of trumpeting such instances to rally support for themselves, thus making them seem more common than they actually are.
That's true in the same way that far right white supremacism was much more common 50 years ago.
Am I right in thinking that they've both died down over that time period, and in the last 5 years or so we''re seeing a resurgence? Could just be media trumpeting minor movements in order to make it seem more dramatic then it is I suppose, I don't exactly live in America.
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On January 12 2018 08:30 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2018 08:21 Danglars wrote:On January 12 2018 08:12 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2018 07:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Someone finally said it.
We are the shithole country. oh give me a break. we are not a shit hole country. You can think there are things wrong without going into 18 year old edgelord mode. ...but claiming the US is a shithole country is exactly the overreaction that I'm growing accustomed to. The GOP needs all the help it can get in 2018/2020, so please continue, guys. Hey, I'd like to come back to our discussion where I argue that you telling dems to be more centrist because that will help them is part of your strategy to weaken the dems because you believe centrism makes them weaker, are you interested in getting back to that conversation?
I think I said my piece on that topic.
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On January 12 2018 08:32 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2018 08:21 Danglars wrote:On January 12 2018 08:12 Mohdoo wrote:oh give me a break. we are not a shit hole country. You can think there are things wrong without going into 18 year old edgelord mode. He already hints at the underhanded pitch. He tries to restrict the response to "developed world," he talks about $30k like it's below the world average, and any infrastructure grade that puts the US at D+ is talking rich & developed countries. He's wrong on the basic level of the playing field, before even getting to the particular claims. ...but claiming the US is a shithole country is exactly the overreaction that I'm growing accustomed to. The GOP needs all the help it can get in 2018/2020, so please continue, guys. This is literally the message Trump ran on. Please explain to me why Trump calling the United States the laughing stock of the world and basically painting it as a destroyed country is a-okay but people talking about infrastructure or health issues (in angry tone or not) is somehow demeaning
Is America a shithole country?
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On January 12 2018 08:37 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2018 08:21 Danglars wrote:On January 12 2018 08:12 Mohdoo wrote:oh give me a break. we are not a shit hole country. You can think there are things wrong without going into 18 year old edgelord mode. He already hints at the underhanded pitch. He tries to restrict the response to "developed world," he talks about $30k like it's below the world average, and any infrastructure grade that puts the US at D+ is talking rich & developed countries. He's wrong on the basic level of the playing field, before even getting to the particular claims. ...but claiming the US is a shithole country is exactly the overreaction that I'm growing accustomed to. The GOP needs all the help it can get in 2018/2020, so please continue, guys. MAGA its in the name Again, implying it once was and is not anymore.
America doesn’t win any more. It makes bad trade deals (though I disagree with Trump on that one).
Miles away from calling us a shithole country. Gofundme a ticket to Liberia or Burundi if you need some context in your life.
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Not a good look when you have to reinterpret his statements later on.
How about "Our airports are like from a third-world country" I've been to U.S airports, and I've been to Cambodia, one is distinctly more third world then the other.
Interestingly a quick google reveals that Joe Biden has made similar remarks back in 2014, so I'm not entirely convinced that Trump was the first to say it.
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On January 12 2018 10:02 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2018 09:57 zlefin wrote:On January 12 2018 09:44 bo1b wrote:On January 12 2018 02:10 Plansix wrote:On January 12 2018 01:00 bo1b wrote:On January 12 2018 00:51 Plansix wrote:
Poorly thought out protest as universities is a post WW2 American tradition and nothing new. Funny enough, Nixon is the one who really started to slam the higher education for being overly “liberal” and filled with hippies. It is a narrative that pre-dates most of us. I'm sure that the Ancient Romans had their version of it too. Hey, you made the claim that the far left and wild, unreasonable protests was somehow a new thing in universities in the US. I just pointed out that the 1960s and 1970s existed people made the exact same argument. That argument is almost 70 years old at this point. If not older. I made the claim we're seeing more of it in recent years, I didn't make the claim it was a brand new thing. Just like the person I was talking to didn't make the claim the far right was a brand new thing either. I rather doubt what we're seein gnow is stronger than what the SDS was doin gback in those days. and there's also a difference between it occurring more, and "seeing it more"; part of the thin gnow is that certain elements of the right have made a point of trumpeting such instances to rally support for themselves, thus making them seem more common than they actually are. That's true in the same way that far right white supremacism was much more common 50 years ago. Am I right in thinking that they've both died down over that time period, and in the last 5 years or so we''re seeing a resurgence? Could just be media trumpeting minor movements in order to make it seem more dramatic then it is I suppose, I don't exactly live in America.
both did die down over that time period.
the lsat 5 years has seen a resurgence (or at least a visibility increase) in extremes on all sides. but the far right factions have achieved mor eclout/visibility than the far left factions have.
some of it is general media trumpetting, some of it is much more specific: partisan media making a point of searching a huge country for any instance which shows the other side acting bad then spammin those stories. this issues afflicts both sides, but comes somewhat more from the right than the left (which is an outgrowth of the non far-right having started its goin gcrazy process in the 90s).
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On January 12 2018 08:12 Mohdoo wrote:oh give me a break. we are not a shit hole country. You can think there are things wrong without going into 18 year old edgelord mode.
We are, compared to where we think we are.
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On January 12 2018 10:11 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2018 10:02 bo1b wrote:On January 12 2018 09:57 zlefin wrote:On January 12 2018 09:44 bo1b wrote:On January 12 2018 02:10 Plansix wrote:On January 12 2018 01:00 bo1b wrote:On January 12 2018 00:51 Plansix wrote:
Poorly thought out protest as universities is a post WW2 American tradition and nothing new. Funny enough, Nixon is the one who really started to slam the higher education for being overly “liberal” and filled with hippies. It is a narrative that pre-dates most of us. I'm sure that the Ancient Romans had their version of it too. Hey, you made the claim that the far left and wild, unreasonable protests was somehow a new thing in universities in the US. I just pointed out that the 1960s and 1970s existed people made the exact same argument. That argument is almost 70 years old at this point. If not older. I made the claim we're seeing more of it in recent years, I didn't make the claim it was a brand new thing. Just like the person I was talking to didn't make the claim the far right was a brand new thing either. I rather doubt what we're seein gnow is stronger than what the SDS was doin gback in those days. and there's also a difference between it occurring more, and "seeing it more"; part of the thin gnow is that certain elements of the right have made a point of trumpeting such instances to rally support for themselves, thus making them seem more common than they actually are. That's true in the same way that far right white supremacism was much more common 50 years ago. Am I right in thinking that they've both died down over that time period, and in the last 5 years or so we''re seeing a resurgence? Could just be media trumpeting minor movements in order to make it seem more dramatic then it is I suppose, I don't exactly live in America. both did die down over that time period. the lsat 5 years has seen a resurgence (or at least a visibility increase) in extremes on all sides. but the far right factions have achieved mor eclout/visibility than the far left factions have. some of it is general media trumpetting, some of it is much more specific: partisan media making a point of searching a huge country for any instance which shows the other side acting bad then spammin those stories. this issues afflicts both sides, but comes somewhat more from the right than the left (which is an outgrowth of the non far-right having started its goin gcrazy process in the 90s).
Out of interest would you agree with the broad overview of what I said, being that the center hasn't really moved it's just being pulled to extremes?
On January 12 2018 10:12 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2018 08:12 Mohdoo wrote:oh give me a break. we are not a shit hole country. You can think there are things wrong without going into 18 year old edgelord mode. We are, compared to where we think we are.
You're really not living in a shit hole country, over all. Might not be living in one with the absolute overall best infrastructure, but it's hardly a shithole.
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On January 12 2018 10:07 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2018 08:37 Gorsameth wrote:On January 12 2018 08:21 Danglars wrote:On January 12 2018 08:12 Mohdoo wrote:oh give me a break. we are not a shit hole country. You can think there are things wrong without going into 18 year old edgelord mode. He already hints at the underhanded pitch. He tries to restrict the response to "developed world," he talks about $30k like it's below the world average, and any infrastructure grade that puts the US at D+ is talking rich & developed countries. He's wrong on the basic level of the playing field, before even getting to the particular claims. ...but claiming the US is a shithole country is exactly the overreaction that I'm growing accustomed to. The GOP needs all the help it can get in 2018/2020, so please continue, guys. MAGA its in the name Again, implying it once was and is not anymore. America doesn’t win any more. It makes bad trade deals (though I disagree with Trump on that one). Miles away from calling us a shithole country. Gofundme a ticket to Liberia or Burundi if you need some context in your life.
"The US, not a shithole when compared to the 3e world countries".
That's some high bar your clearing there.
I wouldn't go as far as calling it a shithole myself but compared to the 1st world, yeah America is far from great.
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On January 12 2018 10:05 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2018 08:32 Nyxisto wrote:On January 12 2018 08:21 Danglars wrote:On January 12 2018 08:12 Mohdoo wrote:oh give me a break. we are not a shit hole country. You can think there are things wrong without going into 18 year old edgelord mode. He already hints at the underhanded pitch. He tries to restrict the response to "developed world," he talks about $30k like it's below the world average, and any infrastructure grade that puts the US at D+ is talking rich & developed countries. He's wrong on the basic level of the playing field, before even getting to the particular claims. ...but claiming the US is a shithole country is exactly the overreaction that I'm growing accustomed to. The GOP needs all the help it can get in 2018/2020, so please continue, guys. This is literally the message Trump ran on. Please explain to me why Trump calling the United States the laughing stock of the world and basically painting it as a destroyed country is a-okay but people talking about infrastructure or health issues (in angry tone or not) is somehow demeaning Is America a shithole country?
no. But it seems that Republicans have the monopoly on calling it one if it fits their political needs. If you're a democrat and you point to serious flaws you're a liberal, unpatriotic, snowflake. Meanwhile apocalyptic fantasies about 'the last election' seemed to be pretty mainstream on the conservative side.
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On January 12 2018 10:04 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2018 08:30 Nebuchad wrote:On January 12 2018 08:21 Danglars wrote:On January 12 2018 08:12 Mohdoo wrote:oh give me a break. we are not a shit hole country. You can think there are things wrong without going into 18 year old edgelord mode. ...but claiming the US is a shithole country is exactly the overreaction that I'm growing accustomed to. The GOP needs all the help it can get in 2018/2020, so please continue, guys. Hey, I'd like to come back to our discussion where I argue that you telling dems to be more centrist because that will help them is part of your strategy to weaken the dems because you believe centrism makes them weaker, are you interested in getting back to that conversation? I think I said my piece on that topic.
It was one succinct piece then.
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On January 12 2018 10:13 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2018 10:07 Danglars wrote:On January 12 2018 08:37 Gorsameth wrote:On January 12 2018 08:21 Danglars wrote:On January 12 2018 08:12 Mohdoo wrote:oh give me a break. we are not a shit hole country. You can think there are things wrong without going into 18 year old edgelord mode. He already hints at the underhanded pitch. He tries to restrict the response to "developed world," he talks about $30k like it's below the world average, and any infrastructure grade that puts the US at D+ is talking rich & developed countries. He's wrong on the basic level of the playing field, before even getting to the particular claims. ...but claiming the US is a shithole country is exactly the overreaction that I'm growing accustomed to. The GOP needs all the help it can get in 2018/2020, so please continue, guys. MAGA its in the name Again, implying it once was and is not anymore. America doesn’t win any more. It makes bad trade deals (though I disagree with Trump on that one). Miles away from calling us a shithole country. Gofundme a ticket to Liberia or Burundi if you need some context in your life. "The US, not a shithole when compared to the 3e world countries". That's some high bar your clearing there. I wouldn't go as far as calling it a shithole myself but compared to the 1st world, yeah America is far from great.
The tweet said “don’t talk about shithole countries”
StealthBlue said “We are the shithole country”
That’s the bar.
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On January 12 2018 10:14 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2018 10:05 Danglars wrote:On January 12 2018 08:32 Nyxisto wrote:On January 12 2018 08:21 Danglars wrote:On January 12 2018 08:12 Mohdoo wrote:oh give me a break. we are not a shit hole country. You can think there are things wrong without going into 18 year old edgelord mode. He already hints at the underhanded pitch. He tries to restrict the response to "developed world," he talks about $30k like it's below the world average, and any infrastructure grade that puts the US at D+ is talking rich & developed countries. He's wrong on the basic level of the playing field, before even getting to the particular claims. ...but claiming the US is a shithole country is exactly the overreaction that I'm growing accustomed to. The GOP needs all the help it can get in 2018/2020, so please continue, guys. This is literally the message Trump ran on. Please explain to me why Trump calling the United States the laughing stock of the world and basically painting it as a destroyed country is a-okay but people talking about infrastructure or health issues (in angry tone or not) is somehow demeaning Is America a shithole country? no. But it seems that Republicans have the monopoly on calling it one if it fits their political needs.
The politicization of certain things, and what you are and are not allowed to say depending on what side of politics you belong to is pretty awful.
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On January 12 2018 10:13 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2018 10:11 zlefin wrote:On January 12 2018 10:02 bo1b wrote:On January 12 2018 09:57 zlefin wrote:On January 12 2018 09:44 bo1b wrote:On January 12 2018 02:10 Plansix wrote:On January 12 2018 01:00 bo1b wrote:On January 12 2018 00:51 Plansix wrote:
Poorly thought out protest as universities is a post WW2 American tradition and nothing new. Funny enough, Nixon is the one who really started to slam the higher education for being overly “liberal” and filled with hippies. It is a narrative that pre-dates most of us. I'm sure that the Ancient Romans had their version of it too. Hey, you made the claim that the far left and wild, unreasonable protests was somehow a new thing in universities in the US. I just pointed out that the 1960s and 1970s existed people made the exact same argument. That argument is almost 70 years old at this point. If not older. I made the claim we're seeing more of it in recent years, I didn't make the claim it was a brand new thing. Just like the person I was talking to didn't make the claim the far right was a brand new thing either. I rather doubt what we're seein gnow is stronger than what the SDS was doin gback in those days. and there's also a difference between it occurring more, and "seeing it more"; part of the thin gnow is that certain elements of the right have made a point of trumpeting such instances to rally support for themselves, thus making them seem more common than they actually are. That's true in the same way that far right white supremacism was much more common 50 years ago. Am I right in thinking that they've both died down over that time period, and in the last 5 years or so we''re seeing a resurgence? Could just be media trumpeting minor movements in order to make it seem more dramatic then it is I suppose, I don't exactly live in America. both did die down over that time period. the lsat 5 years has seen a resurgence (or at least a visibility increase) in extremes on all sides. but the far right factions have achieved mor eclout/visibility than the far left factions have. some of it is general media trumpetting, some of it is much more specific: partisan media making a point of searching a huge country for any instance which shows the other side acting bad then spammin those stories. this issues afflicts both sides, but comes somewhat more from the right than the left (which is an outgrowth of the non far-right having started its goin gcrazy process in the 90s). Out of interest would you agree with the broad overview of what I said, being that the center hasn't really moved it's just being pulled to extremes? Show nested quote +On January 12 2018 10:12 Gahlo wrote:On January 12 2018 08:12 Mohdoo wrote:oh give me a break. we are not a shit hole country. You can think there are things wrong without going into 18 year old edgelord mode. We are, compared to where we think we are. You're really not living in a shit hole country, over all. Might not be living in one with the absolute overall best infrastructure, but it's hardly a shithole.
iirc the center has moved somewhat rightward (except on select social issues, wherein it's clearly moved left; which admittedly makes things a bit more confusing, the inadequeacy of simple right/left labels).
there has also been an increase in the extremes (though mostly on the right side, not nearly as mcuh no the left); as well as a decrease in party overlap and the ideological breadth of the parties.
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Actually it's quite amusing browsing through google and looking at the people outraged at Trump's comments over third world infrastructure, and seeing some of them saying the exact same thing not long earlier.
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He is the chief diplomat for our country. Calling other countries shitholes is bad diplomacy. Also he apparently only calls countries with brown people in them shitty.
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Man I thought we made it so long without the accusation of racism. rip.
But bo1b is kind of right. One of the supposedly pressing reasons we are supposed to have almost open borders is because people are trying to escape their own country and have a better life.
Trump' s statement is another example of not being careful with his words, he should have known with Democrats in the room that this statement would get out.
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Overall the centre has moved towards the right side of the spectrum,and so has society. But it is not so one dimensional. On some isues society as a whole have moved towards the right,and on other isues society has moved towards the left. The traditional right and left and what people think they do stand for do not accurately describe the landscape anymore.
Besides this there is a force pushing everyone away from the centre though I do think this is a bit exaggerated as both the far left as well as the far right are much closer to the centre then they where say in the 60.s when the far left was the commies and the far right was the clan.
Far left is now sanders supporters or maybe green party and far right is the tea party?
well,thats how I see it at least.
I am actually quiet cynical about the motives for all this happening but lets not go into that yet.
Annyway,trump is doing great it seems.
Bbc did have a more or less positive item about him this evening,it was interesting to see and there are some arguments in favor of trump. I think if he keeps this up he will get re-elected for sure unless some disaster does happen.
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EPT
