EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 9587
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14900 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15726 Posts
On December 22 2017 00:53 ticklishmusic wrote: optimistically, i think trump is really the 'one step backwards' to the two steps forward under obama. And yet I also think Trump will cause a left version of the rise of trump on the left. People are frothing at the mouth after realizing their vote matters and you don't get the luxury of holding out for the ideal candidate. Net neutrality, refugees and dreamers all getting shit on because of entitled voters. After a good spanking, I think we'll be a little less stuck up in 2020. And the fact that there's no way we'll run another Hilary will help a lot too lol. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22046 Posts
On December 22 2017 00:57 Excludos wrote: Unsure if this has been posted before, but its rather important: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-republican-tax-bill-deceptively-sold-cuts-middle-classes-obamacare-a8121751.html Is there anyone left on this forum defending this orangutan? I would like to hear what you have to say about this guy admitting to lying to the masses to get what he wants... Preferably without bringing in Obama or Hillary. I tried to point people to it several times, and it was the main reason why I thought it would not pass. Turns out all those failures to repeal the ACA was just because they didn't pay off the senators and their donors enough. | ||
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
On December 22 2017 01:15 Gorsameth wrote: I tried to point people to it several times, and it was the main reason why I thought it would not pass. Turns out all those failures to repeal the ACA was just because they didn't pay off the senators and their donors enough. The best part about this is, that when premiums skyrocket, they will blame the ACA. Not the fact that they broke it, just the whole thing in general | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22046 Posts
On December 22 2017 01:25 IyMoon wrote: The best part about this is, that when premiums skyrocket, they will blame the ACA. Not the fact that they broke it, just the whole thing in general As with so many things the Republicans do, its purposefully setting up the system to fail and then pointing it when it fails and saying that they were right and that government is bad. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15726 Posts
On December 22 2017 01:25 IyMoon wrote: The best part about this is, that when premiums skyrocket, they will blame the ACA. Not the fact that they broke it, just the whole thing in general Doesn't history actually show people blame/praise whoever is in power at that moment? | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On December 22 2017 01:29 Gorsameth wrote: As with so many things the Republicans do, its purposefully setting up the system to fail and then pointing it when it fails and saying that they were right and that government is bad. I feel like if nothing else the Republicans are teaching an important lesson that probably the most important thing in crafting legislating is making sure malicious users later on can't undermine it. Something we probably previously thought wouldn't be an issue. | ||
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
On December 22 2017 01:30 Mohdoo wrote: Doesn't history actually show people blame/praise whoever is in power at that moment? That is if it happens soon. Who knows if this will happen before 2018 | ||
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oBlade
United States5820 Posts
On December 22 2017 00:32 iamthedave wrote: I have another question to my US colleagues who are living through what's happening there. This one's been bothering me all year and I'd like to get your feeling for it. Do you see a path back? I've never seen the US media this polarised and divisive, and everywhere I look in relevant comment boards (multiple websites, reddit and other places) I see those divides played out with even greater vitriol. It sounds almost like you're all gearing up for a second civil war. I saw a post in a conservative reddit board about a kid in Texas who answered the question: "What do you call someone who betrays the united states?" (correct answer in this context: a traitor) with 'A Democrat'. I found that really quite chilling, and very dispiriting to watch the thread full of people agreeing. It seems little better on left leaning threads. Both sides of the political spectrum seem to think the other is literally trying to destroy America. Trump's particular form of dialogue is starting to normalise, and it seems likely other Republicans are at least going to try it since it's wildly popular with the fans and/or voters. Is there a path back? How do you walk it? I think you identified the key without realizing it, you said "US media," although people are more often copying the media's vilification of the other side in this climate than before, most people are still moderate and largely uninformed about anything in real life. The media and internet is its own world. The venting and tribalism is not fundamentally a political thing I think it's more of a social and psychological and actually I think sexual issue that's catalyzed by technology and associated bubbleness we've never had before. It's just a coincidence that it's only now those factors are here to magnify the rifts. With enough fatigue, the media will have a makeover or revolution. I think there are enough people who are not going to want to hear the same shit forever that what you're describing will become a niche. But my worry is people in power, media, of influence, on any side who think that the marginal (short term) benefit of deepening divides benefits them personally more than reconciliation, which then screws everyone because people can't change their own parties because they believe change, being untested and so less reliable, is a road to defeat and the status quo is safer, which just perpetuates the whole dysfunctional system. It's like a game where we win bigly if A and B cooperate but they each lose if the other doesn't cooperate. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22046 Posts
On December 22 2017 01:37 Logo wrote: I feel like if nothing else the Republicans are teaching an important lesson that probably the most important thing in crafting legislating is making sure malicious users later on can't undermine it. Something we probably previously thought wouldn't be an issue. Its a known lesson. The problem is that Congress can't write laws that Congress then cannot later change. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22046 Posts
On December 22 2017 01:41 oBlade wrote: I think you identified the key without realizing it, you said "US media," although people are more often copying the media's vilification of the other side in this climate than before, most people are still moderate and largely uninformed about anything in real life. The media and internet is its own world. The venting and tribalism is not fundamentally a political thing I think it's more of a social and psychological and actually I think sexual issue that's catalyzed by technology and associated bubbleness we've never had before. It's just a coincidence that it's only now those factors are here to magnify the rifts. With enough fatigue, the media will have a makeover or revolution. I think there are enough people who are not going to want to hear the same shit forever that what you're describing will become a niche. But my worry is people in power, media, of influence, on any side who think that the marginal (short term) benefit of deepening divides benefits them personally more than reconciliation, which then screws everyone because people can't change their own parties because they believe change, being untested and so less reliable, is a road to defeat and the status quo is safer, which just perpetuates the whole dysfunctional system. It's like a game where we win bigly if A and B cooperate but they each lose if the other doesn't cooperate. I wouldn't call it a US problem. Its a problem everywhere. its just more apparent in the US. And I wouldn't call it a media problem either. The issue is that people enjoy having their world views confirmed. We like being right. And the internet has allowed us to more and more find communities that will enforce and validate that world view, no matter how right or wrong it is. If its not Fox News it will be Facebook, or Twitter or whatever other place people find those who think as they do. We're only going to get more echo chambers and more people isolated from seeing opposing views which will keep increasing the divide. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On December 22 2017 01:42 Gorsameth wrote: Its a known lesson. The problem is that Congress can't write laws that Congress then cannot later change. Yeah, but there's gotta be a better way than say what the ACA is? So far this year both the President and Congress have been able to muck with it while still leaving it intact enough that it's "the ACA" still. The other aspect of it is putting the publics interest more into the bill maybe? Like a lot of people clearly aren't feeling the benefit of the ACA (employer coverage or in the gaps or whatever) so it's been a lot easier for them to undermine parts of it with less backlash. I don't know, it does seem like an almost insurmountable hard problem but I'd like to think there's something better that can be done for lawmaking other than hoping you don't end up with malicious users. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On December 22 2017 01:41 oBlade wrote: I think you identified the key without realizing it, you said "US media," although people are more often copying the media's vilification of the other side in this climate than before, most people are still moderate and largely uninformed about anything in real life. The media and internet is its own world. The venting and tribalism is not fundamentally a political thing I think it's more of a social and psychological and actually I think sexual issue that's catalyzed by technology and associated bubbleness we've never had before. It's just a coincidence that it's only now those factors are here to magnify the rifts. With enough fatigue, the media will have a makeover or revolution. I think there are enough people who are not going to want to hear the same shit forever that what you're describing will become a niche. But my worry is people in power, media, of influence, on any side who think that the marginal (short term) benefit of deepening divides benefits them personally more than reconciliation, which then screws everyone because people can't change their own parties because they believe change, being untested and so less reliable, is a road to defeat and the status quo is safer, which just perpetuates the whole dysfunctional system. It's like a game where we win bigly if A and B cooperate but they each lose if the other doesn't cooperate. Sexual issue in what way? Also, as a side note, the increased inequality that the new tax bill will cause will result in a media more controlled by a moneyed few. maybe that's the revolution that you're talking about. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8231 Posts
On December 22 2017 02:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Get ready for a temper tantrum. https://twitter.com/AP/status/943893304185360384 https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/943893172412977152 Does this mean US will cut aid to 128 countries then..? His people believed that this is "correct" and "savage" after all. He would have to go through with his threats or lose his fanbase... right? Right?! | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9763 Posts
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
On December 22 2017 02:35 Jockmcplop wrote: Its so satisfying when the whole world tells a douchebag to fuck off. It is also an embarrassing day for America | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On December 22 2017 02:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Get ready for a temper tantrum. https://twitter.com/AP/status/943893304185360384 https://twitter.com/JuddLegum/status/943893172412977152 I didn’t know the UN was quite that polarized. Let your true colors show, I guess. | ||
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
On December 22 2017 02:39 Danglars wrote: I didn’t know the UN was quite that polarized. Let your true colors show, I guess. What are you talking about? The whole world (minus 9 I guess) Think this is a horrible call. This does not strike me as anything but the world going 'hold your shit, thats a bad call' | ||
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brian
United States9636 Posts
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