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On October 27 2017 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 06:09 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 05:55 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, Kamala Harris was a prosecutor, so of course she liked three strikes laws. And she likely didn’t abuse them too. But the three strikes rules are so easily abused by DAs that just want to throw black men in jail for minor drug charges. Arguing they should continue to exist is abusing them and more importantly your citizens. I'm sure others did worse, but don't just give her and Democrats a pass on this. They are an integral part of the problem. She isn’t a stupid woman, someone should convince her otherwise. We have a bunch of DAs saying that three strike laws are great in my stated. And a group of friends and I are working local justice reform groups to make calls and convince them that three strikes laws to easy to abuse. Or convince their bosses if that doesn’t work. No one said it was going to be easy. I'm just saying your first statement made it sound like you didn't/wouldn't vote for someone who helped perpetuate (and magnify) the problem you were identifying.
I really don’t care what the fuck she believes, only how she votes. And if the party votes for criminal justice reform and she votes against it, I won’t support her. But then again I don’t live in her state, so my opinion of her doesn’t matter.
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On October 27 2017 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 06:09 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 05:55 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, Kamala Harris was a prosecutor, so of course she liked three strikes laws. And she likely didn’t abuse them too. But the three strikes rules are so easily abused by DAs that just want to throw black men in jail for minor drug charges. Arguing they should continue to exist is abusing them and more importantly your citizens. I'm sure others did worse, but don't just give her and Democrats a pass on this. They are an integral part of the problem. She isn’t a stupid woman, someone should convince her otherwise. We have a bunch of DAs saying that three strike laws are great in my stated. And a group of friends and I are working local justice reform groups to make calls and convince them that three strikes laws to easy to abuse. Or convince their bosses if that doesn’t work. No one said it was going to be easy. I'm just saying your first statement made it sound like you didn't/wouldn't vote for someone who helped perpetuate (and magnify) the problem you were identifying.
As this topic always goes, you believe in ousting people when their ideologies don't align, posters like Plansix and KwarK believe in incremental shifts .
As I'm sure you know, I side with P6 and KwarK on the issue. Most nations that have the things you want (UHC, softer criminal laws, more socialized programs) were done through incremental changes and voters influencing the "swamp" (so to speak). Nations that oust unfavourable governments and replace them with entirely new governments are not a very favourable group of company.
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I love this debate. You have three XOR choices:
(1) Dems: make prison situation a little better
(2) Reps: make prison situation substantially worse
(3) lie to yourself and pretend that not voting / voting on pretend candidates makes you important
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On October 27 2017 06:17 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 06:09 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 05:55 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, Kamala Harris was a prosecutor, so of course she liked three strikes laws. And she likely didn’t abuse them too. But the three strikes rules are so easily abused by DAs that just want to throw black men in jail for minor drug charges. Arguing they should continue to exist is abusing them and more importantly your citizens. I'm sure others did worse, but don't just give her and Democrats a pass on this. They are an integral part of the problem. She isn’t a stupid woman, someone should convince her otherwise. We have a bunch of DAs saying that three strike laws are great in my stated. And a group of friends and I are working local justice reform groups to make calls and convince them that three strikes laws to easy to abuse. Or convince their bosses if that doesn’t work. No one said it was going to be easy. I'm just saying your first statement made it sound like you didn't/wouldn't vote for someone who helped perpetuate (and magnify) the problem you were identifying. I really don’t care what the fuck she believes, only how she votes. And if the party votes for criminal justice reform and she votes against it, I won’t support her. But then again I don’t live in her state, so my opinion of her doesn’t matter.
But you voted for Hillary?
Pretty sure you think your opinion matters about other Senators not from your state, not sure why suddenly you think it doesn't matter about one of the most likely presidential candidates for president in 2020 other than out of political convenience.
Or maybe I'm wrong about you thinking all the opinions you've offered on countless other politicians from outside your state have value, really, you thought you were expressing nothing but vapid, pointless, words that don't matter.
On October 27 2017 06:23 Wulfey_LA wrote:
I love this debate. You have three XOR choices:
(1) Dems: make prison situation a little better
(2) Reps: make prison situation substantially worse
(3) lie to yourself and pretend that not voting / voting on pretend candidates makes you important
(4) Stop letting yourself be trapped in this idiotic mindset.
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On October 27 2017 06:23 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 06:17 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 06:09 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 05:55 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, Kamala Harris was a prosecutor, so of course she liked three strikes laws. And she likely didn’t abuse them too. But the three strikes rules are so easily abused by DAs that just want to throw black men in jail for minor drug charges. Arguing they should continue to exist is abusing them and more importantly your citizens. I'm sure others did worse, but don't just give her and Democrats a pass on this. They are an integral part of the problem. She isn’t a stupid woman, someone should convince her otherwise. We have a bunch of DAs saying that three strike laws are great in my stated. And a group of friends and I are working local justice reform groups to make calls and convince them that three strikes laws to easy to abuse. Or convince their bosses if that doesn’t work. No one said it was going to be easy. I'm just saying your first statement made it sound like you didn't/wouldn't vote for someone who helped perpetuate (and magnify) the problem you were identifying. I really don’t care what the fuck she believes, only how she votes. And if the party votes for criminal justice reform and she votes against it, I won’t support her. But then again I don’t live in her state, so my opinion of her doesn’t matter. But you voted for Hillary? Pretty sure you think your opinion matters about other Senators not from your state, not sure why suddenly you think it doesn't matter about one of the most likely presidential candidates for president in 2020 other than out of political convenience. Or maybe I'm wrong about you thinking all the opinions you've offered on countless other politicians from outside your state have value, really, you thought you were expressing nothing but vapid, pointless, words that don't matter.
That you didn't is proof that your values are merely virtue signalling. If you cared about the consequences of your actions on others in line with your alleged values, then you would have voted Hillary.
EDIT: ask yourself, which is better for prison reform?
(1) Attorney General Jeff Sessions
(2) Attorney General Kamela Harris
By not voting for Hillary, you voted for Attorney General Jeff Sessions.
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On October 27 2017 06:23 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 06:17 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 06:09 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 05:55 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, Kamala Harris was a prosecutor, so of course she liked three strikes laws. And she likely didn’t abuse them too. But the three strikes rules are so easily abused by DAs that just want to throw black men in jail for minor drug charges. Arguing they should continue to exist is abusing them and more importantly your citizens. I'm sure others did worse, but don't just give her and Democrats a pass on this. They are an integral part of the problem. She isn’t a stupid woman, someone should convince her otherwise. We have a bunch of DAs saying that three strike laws are great in my stated. And a group of friends and I are working local justice reform groups to make calls and convince them that three strikes laws to easy to abuse. Or convince their bosses if that doesn’t work. No one said it was going to be easy. I'm just saying your first statement made it sound like you didn't/wouldn't vote for someone who helped perpetuate (and magnify) the problem you were identifying. I really don’t care what the fuck she believes, only how she votes. And if the party votes for criminal justice reform and she votes against it, I won’t support her. But then again I don’t live in her state, so my opinion of her doesn’t matter. But you voted for Hillary? Pretty sure you think your opinion matters about other Senators not from your state, not sure why suddenly you think it doesn't matter about one of the most likely presidential candidates for president in 2020 other than out of political convenience. Or maybe I'm wrong about you thinking all the opinions you've offered on countless other politicians from outside your state have value, really, you thought you were expressing nothing but vapid, pointless, words that don't matter.
I think you need to remind yourself about the ACA and which party was campaigning on screwing Plansix over the hardest.
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On October 27 2017 06:25 Wulfey_LA wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 06:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 06:17 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 06:09 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 05:55 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, Kamala Harris was a prosecutor, so of course she liked three strikes laws. And she likely didn’t abuse them too. But the three strikes rules are so easily abused by DAs that just want to throw black men in jail for minor drug charges. Arguing they should continue to exist is abusing them and more importantly your citizens. I'm sure others did worse, but don't just give her and Democrats a pass on this. They are an integral part of the problem. She isn’t a stupid woman, someone should convince her otherwise. We have a bunch of DAs saying that three strike laws are great in my stated. And a group of friends and I are working local justice reform groups to make calls and convince them that three strikes laws to easy to abuse. Or convince their bosses if that doesn’t work. No one said it was going to be easy. I'm just saying your first statement made it sound like you didn't/wouldn't vote for someone who helped perpetuate (and magnify) the problem you were identifying. I really don’t care what the fuck she believes, only how she votes. And if the party votes for criminal justice reform and she votes against it, I won’t support her. But then again I don’t live in her state, so my opinion of her doesn’t matter. But you voted for Hillary? Pretty sure you think your opinion matters about other Senators not from your state, not sure why suddenly you think it doesn't matter about one of the most likely presidential candidates for president in 2020 other than out of political convenience. Or maybe I'm wrong about you thinking all the opinions you've offered on countless other politicians from outside your state have value, really, you thought you were expressing nothing but vapid, pointless, words that don't matter. That you didn't is proof that your values are merely virtue signalling. If you cared about the consequences of your actions on others in line with your alleged values, then you would have voted Hillary.
No, my values aren't in supporting someone like Hillary just because she intentionally promoted Trump and helped make him the "only" alternative. It's sad that people not only willingly do this to themselves, but try to shame people into making the same piss-poor decision.
There are few better "virtue signalers" than the Democratic party which presides over some of the worst abuses which they claim to be fighting.
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On October 27 2017 06:28 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 06:25 Wulfey_LA wrote:On October 27 2017 06:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 06:17 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 06:09 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 05:55 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, Kamala Harris was a prosecutor, so of course she liked three strikes laws. And she likely didn’t abuse them too. But the three strikes rules are so easily abused by DAs that just want to throw black men in jail for minor drug charges. Arguing they should continue to exist is abusing them and more importantly your citizens. I'm sure others did worse, but don't just give her and Democrats a pass on this. They are an integral part of the problem. She isn’t a stupid woman, someone should convince her otherwise. We have a bunch of DAs saying that three strike laws are great in my stated. And a group of friends and I are working local justice reform groups to make calls and convince them that three strikes laws to easy to abuse. Or convince their bosses if that doesn’t work. No one said it was going to be easy. I'm just saying your first statement made it sound like you didn't/wouldn't vote for someone who helped perpetuate (and magnify) the problem you were identifying. I really don’t care what the fuck she believes, only how she votes. And if the party votes for criminal justice reform and she votes against it, I won’t support her. But then again I don’t live in her state, so my opinion of her doesn’t matter. But you voted for Hillary? Pretty sure you think your opinion matters about other Senators not from your state, not sure why suddenly you think it doesn't matter about one of the most likely presidential candidates for president in 2020 other than out of political convenience. Or maybe I'm wrong about you thinking all the opinions you've offered on countless other politicians from outside your state have value, really, you thought you were expressing nothing but vapid, pointless, words that don't matter. That you didn't is proof that your values are merely virtue signalling. If you cared about the consequences of your actions on others in line with your alleged values, then you would have voted Hillary. No, my values aren't in supporting someone like Hillary just because she intentionally promoted Trump and helped make him the "only" alternative. It's sad that people not only willingly do this to themselves, but try to shame people into making the same piss-poor decision. There are no better "virtue signalers" than the Democratic party which presides over some of the worst abuses which they claim to be fighting.
You should be ashamed! You claim to care about prison reform, but you voted for Attorney General Jeff Sessions. All this yammering about how the prisons are so bad yet when the time came, you preferred Jeff Sessions.
EDIT: seriously, try and answer this.
Who is better on prison reform? (1) Attorney General Jeff Sessions XOR (2) Attorney General Kamela Harris? You know the answer. Just say it.
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On October 27 2017 06:23 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 06:17 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 06:09 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 05:55 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, Kamala Harris was a prosecutor, so of course she liked three strikes laws. And she likely didn’t abuse them too. But the three strikes rules are so easily abused by DAs that just want to throw black men in jail for minor drug charges. Arguing they should continue to exist is abusing them and more importantly your citizens. I'm sure others did worse, but don't just give her and Democrats a pass on this. They are an integral part of the problem. She isn’t a stupid woman, someone should convince her otherwise. We have a bunch of DAs saying that three strike laws are great in my stated. And a group of friends and I are working local justice reform groups to make calls and convince them that three strikes laws to easy to abuse. Or convince their bosses if that doesn’t work. No one said it was going to be easy. I'm just saying your first statement made it sound like you didn't/wouldn't vote for someone who helped perpetuate (and magnify) the problem you were identifying. I really don’t care what the fuck she believes, only how she votes. And if the party votes for criminal justice reform and she votes against it, I won’t support her. But then again I don’t live in her state, so my opinion of her doesn’t matter. But you voted for Hillary? Pretty sure you think your opinion matters about other Senators not from your state, not sure why suddenly you think it doesn't matter about one of the most likely presidential candidates for president in 2020 other than out of political convenience. Or maybe I'm wrong about you thinking all the opinions you've offered on countless other politicians from outside your state have value, really, you thought you were expressing nothing but vapid, pointless, words that don't matter.
Kamala Harris does not strike me as someone who is so stuck in her ways that she won't change her mind. Criminal justice reform is important and I wouldn’t vote for her in a primary if she didn’t support it. But my primary is so late I don’t really get options.
And the rest of that is you just being an asshole. You should end your habit of doing that whenever someone doesn't express the same level of outrage at the Democrats that you do.
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On October 27 2017 06:30 Wulfey_LA wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 06:28 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 06:25 Wulfey_LA wrote:On October 27 2017 06:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 06:17 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 06:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 06:09 Plansix wrote:On October 27 2017 06:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 05:55 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, Kamala Harris was a prosecutor, so of course she liked three strikes laws. And she likely didn’t abuse them too. But the three strikes rules are so easily abused by DAs that just want to throw black men in jail for minor drug charges. Arguing they should continue to exist is abusing them and more importantly your citizens. I'm sure others did worse, but don't just give her and Democrats a pass on this. They are an integral part of the problem. She isn’t a stupid woman, someone should convince her otherwise. We have a bunch of DAs saying that three strike laws are great in my stated. And a group of friends and I are working local justice reform groups to make calls and convince them that three strikes laws to easy to abuse. Or convince their bosses if that doesn’t work. No one said it was going to be easy. I'm just saying your first statement made it sound like you didn't/wouldn't vote for someone who helped perpetuate (and magnify) the problem you were identifying. I really don’t care what the fuck she believes, only how she votes. And if the party votes for criminal justice reform and she votes against it, I won’t support her. But then again I don’t live in her state, so my opinion of her doesn’t matter. But you voted for Hillary? Pretty sure you think your opinion matters about other Senators not from your state, not sure why suddenly you think it doesn't matter about one of the most likely presidential candidates for president in 2020 other than out of political convenience. Or maybe I'm wrong about you thinking all the opinions you've offered on countless other politicians from outside your state have value, really, you thought you were expressing nothing but vapid, pointless, words that don't matter. That you didn't is proof that your values are merely virtue signalling. If you cared about the consequences of your actions on others in line with your alleged values, then you would have voted Hillary. No, my values aren't in supporting someone like Hillary just because she intentionally promoted Trump and helped make him the "only" alternative. It's sad that people not only willingly do this to themselves, but try to shame people into making the same piss-poor decision. There are no better "virtue signalers" than the Democratic party which presides over some of the worst abuses which they claim to be fighting. You should be ashamed! You claim to care about prison reform, but you voted for Attorney General Jeff Sessions. All this yammering about how the prisons are so bad yet when the time came, you preferred Jeff Sessions.
My vote literally didn't effect the outcome (Hillary had 1 "office" in my whole state) so people can stop that idiotic nonsense, but overall I say Trump is doing more to encourage people to do something about all the terrribleness in politics and media than Hillary ever could have.
It's abundantly clear people would be ignoring and defending so much garbage if it was Hillary in office (still wouldn't have passed shit except things Republicans would support, probably more than Trump).
The rest would go back to sleep where they thought Obama wasn't responsible for countless civilian deaths, where we're bombing 7 different countries, police are rampantly abusing rights under democrats as well as republicans, and so on.
I agree with P6 that she could be moved, small problem though. The same people would say dumbass things like "she has to win before we can pressure her not to support things we oppose. Otherwise you are supporting the much worse Republican". Which is stupid, but it persists.
EDIT: @p6 "the rest" was me pointing out why what you said was silly.
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On October 27 2017 06:38 GreenHorizons wrote:
My vote literally didn't effect the outcome (Hillary had 1 "office" in my whole state) so people can stop that idiotic nonsense, but overall I say Trump is doing more to encourage people to do something about all the terrribleness in politics and media than Hillary ever could have.
Well, I'm sorry your vote is the only one out of everyone in this thread that counts as one person?
It's abundantly clear people would be ignoring and defending so much garbage if it was Hillary in office (still wouldn't have passed shit except things Republicans would support, probably more than Trump).
I'm...not sure you understand how your government system works?
The rest would go back to sleep where they thought Obama wasn't responsible for countless civilian deaths, where we're bombing 7 different countries, police are rampantly abusing rights under democrats as well as republicans, and so on.
Please name one politician anywhere in the world or in history that fixed everything you wanted.
I agree with P6 that she could be moved, small problem though. The same people would say dumbass things like "she has to win before we can pressure her not to support things we oppose. Otherwise you are supporting the much worse Republican". Which is stupid, but it persists.
Well, I mean, you supported Jill Stein because she wasn't Clinton or Trump, so...
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On October 27 2017 06:47 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 06:38 GreenHorizons wrote:
My vote literally didn't effect the outcome (Hillary had 1 "office" in my whole state) so people can stop that idiotic nonsense, but overall I say Trump is doing more to encourage people to do something about all the terrribleness in politics and media than Hillary ever could have. Well, I'm sorry your vote is the only one out of everyone in this thread that counts as one person? Show nested quote +It's abundantly clear people would be ignoring and defending so much garbage if it was Hillary in office (still wouldn't have passed shit except things Republicans would support, probably more than Trump). I'm...not sure you understand how your government system works? Show nested quote +The rest would go back to sleep where they thought Obama wasn't responsible for countless civilian deaths, where we're bombing 7 different countries, police are rampantly abusing rights under democrats as well as republicans, and so on. Please name one politician anywhere in the world or in history that fixed everything you wanted. Show nested quote +I agree with P6 that she could be moved, small problem though. The same people would say dumbass things like "she has to win before we can pressure her not to support things we oppose. Otherwise you are supporting the much worse Republican". Which is stupid, but it persists. Well, I mean, you supported Jill Stein because she wasn't Clinton or Trump, so...
What I mean to say is that I'm in a blue state that wasn't remotely close. As such my vote has a different value/impact than someone in say Michigan. This is supported by how much effort/money Hillary spent of her billion dollar plus war chest in my state. I was free to vote my conscious. Also I was partially referring to the primary.
I understand how the government works well enough.
+ Show Spoiler +
I don't expect a politician to fix everything I want, don't be silly.
I supported, more defended, Jill Stein (to the minimal degree I did) because of what she was trying to do. Bring awareness to core problems. It's clear that many Democrats see too many problems as Republican caused rather than recognizing that most of the problems we have couldn't continue without Democratic support.
Who is better on prison reform? (1) Attorney General Jeff Sessions XOR (2) Attorney General Kamela Harris? You know the answer. Just say it.
Kamala is better. They are both bad.
As to which is to lead to more significant changes, Sessions.
When Sessions is in office every poor choice is a political point (even if hypocritical), with Kamala, the people predisposed to pointing out bad acts by the AG would be more inclined to defend her than agree that she fucked up. Moreover Republicans are less likely to draw attention to problems like three strikes laws, because they also support them. Leaving you with Bipartisan opposition to something you would have had only Republicans proudly resisting otherwise.
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There is only one party trying to fuck me over constantly and that is the Republicans. There has never been a reason to vote for them or vote in protest of the democrats since I started voting.
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On October 27 2017 07:02 Plansix wrote:
There is only one party trying to fuck me over constantly and that is the Republicans. There has never been a reason to vote for them or vote in protest of the democrats since I started voting.
Maybe as a upper-middle class white man this is somewhat conceivable, but you have to then see how that is absolutely not true for people like myself.
I'd argue that Democrats constantly are trying to fuck people like yourself over and the sooner you see it the sooner we can make real progress.
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On October 27 2017 07:10 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 07:02 Plansix wrote:
There is only one party trying to fuck me over constantly and that is the Republicans. There has never been a reason to vote for them or vote in protest of the democrats since I started voting. Maybe as a upper-middle class white man this is somewhat conceivable, but you have to then see how that is absolutely not true for people like myself. I'd argue that Democrats constantly are trying to fuck people like yourselves over and the sooner you see it the sooner we can make real progress.
I'm a pretty solid middle class. My 401K is not impressive and we have trouble saving like everyone else in this modern economy. And the Democrats have not tried to fuck me over. Maybe you missed the part where the ACA is a huge part of why my wife and I didn't have to declare bankruptcy because of surgery she needed. I get that they have not done enough for everyone, but changes very little for me.
The reason we get so down on you when you get on your Democrat hate train is that you and the progressives need people like me, Wolf, Kwark. Just like we need the progressives. There is no future where we fill 50% of the senate with socialists. Not on our life time. Getting elected on outrage and anger at the establishment of the party might work, but it won't get rid of 100% of them. Not by a long shot.
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United States44279 Posts
On October 27 2017 06:23 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 06:23 Wulfey_LA wrote:
I love this debate. You have three XOR choices:
(1) Dems: make prison situation a little better
(2) Reps: make prison situation substantially worse
(3) lie to yourself and pretend that not voting / voting on pretend candidates makes you important (4) Stop letting yourself be trapped in this idiotic mindset.
4 only works if you're prepared to start throwing molotovs.
The rule of law and the foundations of society require you to adhere to the rules of the game. The only way to refuse to play the game and still come out ahead is if you break the game, burn it all down, and force everyone to play the new game that you just built. Otherwise all you're doing is choosing to deliberately lose at the game while the other side run up the score.
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President Trump has issued a memo to executive agencies ordering the release of 2,800 remaining records related to the assassination of former President John F. Kennedy.
The files are among the last to be released by the National Archives under a 1992 law that ordered the government to make all remaining documents pertaining to the assassination public. There has long been a trove of conspiracy theories surrounding Kennedy's death in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963, including doubts about whether assassin Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone, as the Warren Commission determined in its report the following year.
Other files are being withheld due to what the White House says are national security, law enforcement and foreign policy concerns. The vast majority of what's being withheld is at the request of the FBI and CIA.
The remaining redactions are going be reviewed over the next 180 days, and any not sufficiently demonstrated to need withholding will be released on April 26, 2018.
Source
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This article is pretty much on point. The centrists need to learn to open themselves up to critique and let primary challenges work themselves out without national influence. And the progressives need to remember the difference between critique and assault, and that they can and will lose some races.
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On October 27 2017 07:18 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 07:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 07:02 Plansix wrote:
There is only one party trying to fuck me over constantly and that is the Republicans. There has never been a reason to vote for them or vote in protest of the democrats since I started voting. Maybe as a upper-middle class white man this is somewhat conceivable, but you have to then see how that is absolutely not true for people like myself. I'd argue that Democrats constantly are trying to fuck people like yourselves over and the sooner you see it the sooner we can make real progress. I'm a pretty solid middle class. My 401K is not impressive and we have trouble saving like everyone else in this modern economy. And the Democrats have not tried to fuck me over. Maybe you missed the part where the ACA is a huge part of why my wife and I didn't have to declare bankruptcy because of surgery she needed. I get that they have not done enough for everyone, but changes very little for me. The reason we get so down on you when you get on your Democrat hate train is that you and the progressives need people like me, Wolf, Kwark. Just like we need the progressives. There is no future where we fill 50% of the senate with socialists. Not on our life time. Getting elected on outrage and anger at the establishment of the party might work, but it won't get rid of 100% of them. Not by a long shot.
If we center this around ourselves you may have a case for yourself, but there is no case for me, it's clear they have fucked me over and people who are in similar situations. So it's important we take it outside of ourselves.
I presume you see how they have tried to fuck me and people who look like me over? I have a hard time seeing how you don't see how they fucked you over.
On October 27 2017 07:24 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 27 2017 06:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 27 2017 06:23 Wulfey_LA wrote:
I love this debate. You have three XOR choices:
(1) Dems: make prison situation a little better
(2) Reps: make prison situation substantially worse
(3) lie to yourself and pretend that not voting / voting on pretend candidates makes you important (4) Stop letting yourself be trapped in this idiotic mindset. 4 only works if you're prepared to start throwing molotovs. The rule of law and the foundations of society require you to adhere to the rules of the game. The only way to refuse to play the game and still come out ahead is if you break the game, burn it all down, and force everyone to play the new game that you just built. Otherwise all you're doing is choosing to deliberately lose at the game while the other side run up the score.
One would hope after enough losing at a rigged game you'd be ready to pick up the molotov rather than trying to rope in new suckers for the game
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EPT![[image loading]](https://images.dailykos.com/images/213087/large/venn_diagram_of_clinton.JPG)
