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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On October 01 2017 05:09 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2017 04:51 zlefin wrote:
There's no lesson to be learned by us, you're the one who needs to learn the lesson: don't choose to hurt people; you willingly chose to cause suffering to others and yourself out of spite and foolishness; that's entirely on you.
You don't like being called out on the facts; you don't like facts at all; because the reality and facts are, that you were wrong, and you chose evil, and it was obvious that you chose evil. If you refuse to learn the lesson, you choose to repeat the pain. I'd really prefer the situation I described in the original post. You call it spite. You say the base deserves to be defamed. You say my policies are against policies made by people who know what they're doing. You can't be reasoned with and much of the country shares in that political psychosis (though maybe they'd soften it just a little). The political options that remain involve making the choice knowing the left isn't coming back to the table, or never was at the table originally. Sorry. Divided states of America and all. Colonial overlords over the natives that are too dumb to pick well for themselves.
you specifically chose the option of not being reasoned with. you dont' get to claim we're the ones who can't be reasoned with when you chose to reject reason itself. You're now also lying striaght out. The right is the one that went away from the table, and/or was never at it in the first place. The right is the side that chose division. You don't get to complain about division when you're the one who causes it.
It's preposterous that you complain abotu the left as you do when it was the right that actually did those things.
I made true statements; unless you can show my statements aren't true; then you've got nothing but rage and spite.
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On October 01 2017 05:07 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2017 05:04 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 04:51 zlefin wrote:
There's no lesson to be learned by us, you're the one who needs to learn the lesson: don't choose to hurt people; you willingly chose to cause suffering to others and yourself out of spite and foolishness; that's entirely on you.
You don't like being called out on the facts; you don't like facts at all; because the reality and facts are, that you were wrong, and you chose evil, and it was obvious that you chose evil. Let's go back to logic shall we instead of posting here only to piss people off. The dems and GOP were both trying to get the White House. GOP got it and DNC didn't. So by reasoning, ofc the DNC needs to reflect on themselves in comparison to the GOP. Its common sense. If the goal is to win at all costs, regardless of the suffering it causes to the world or to yourself; then yes that's true. But there's a larger questoin of whether the stance of winning regardless of the suffering you cause is appropriate or not. Do you have an opinion on that question?
I got to admit, the Left's aggrandizing victimhood industry have definitely been suffering after Trump's victory.
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On October 01 2017 05:13 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2017 05:07 zlefin wrote:On October 01 2017 05:04 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 04:51 zlefin wrote:
There's no lesson to be learned by us, you're the one who needs to learn the lesson: don't choose to hurt people; you willingly chose to cause suffering to others and yourself out of spite and foolishness; that's entirely on you.
You don't like being called out on the facts; you don't like facts at all; because the reality and facts are, that you were wrong, and you chose evil, and it was obvious that you chose evil. Let's go back to logic shall we instead of posting here only to piss people off. The dems and GOP were both trying to get the White House. GOP got it and DNC didn't. So by reasoning, ofc the DNC needs to reflect on themselves in comparison to the GOP. Its common sense. If the goal is to win at all costs, regardless of the suffering it causes to the world or to yourself; then yes that's true. But there's a larger questoin of whether the stance of winning regardless of the suffering you cause is appropriate or not. Do you have an opinion on that question? I got to admit, the Left's aggrandizing victimhood industry have definitely been suffering after Trump's victory.
are you still on that nonsense abotu there being an actual serious victimhood industry of significant size on the left? (and seemingly ignoring that for what industry there is, there'es just as much of it on the right)
You also didn't answer the question asked.
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On October 01 2017 05:14 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2017 05:13 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 05:07 zlefin wrote:On October 01 2017 05:04 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 04:51 zlefin wrote:
There's no lesson to be learned by us, you're the one who needs to learn the lesson: don't choose to hurt people; you willingly chose to cause suffering to others and yourself out of spite and foolishness; that's entirely on you.
You don't like being called out on the facts; you don't like facts at all; because the reality and facts are, that you were wrong, and you chose evil, and it was obvious that you chose evil. Let's go back to logic shall we instead of posting here only to piss people off. The dems and GOP were both trying to get the White House. GOP got it and DNC didn't. So by reasoning, ofc the DNC needs to reflect on themselves in comparison to the GOP. Its common sense. If the goal is to win at all costs, regardless of the suffering it causes to the world or to yourself; then yes that's true. But there's a larger questoin of whether the stance of winning regardless of the suffering you cause is appropriate or not. Do you have an opinion on that question? I got to admit, the Left's aggrandizing victimhood industry have definitely been suffering after Trump's victory. are you still on that nonsense abotu their being an actual serious industry of significant size on the left? (and seemingly ignoring that for what industry there is, there'es just as much of it on the right) You also didn't answer the question asked.
I just did, it isn't healthy to have a system where racists/sexists scam artists can run rampant.
So it is definitely appropriate for Trump to make a dent to them.
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On October 01 2017 05:12 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2017 05:09 Danglars wrote:On October 01 2017 04:51 zlefin wrote:
There's no lesson to be learned by us, you're the one who needs to learn the lesson: don't choose to hurt people; you willingly chose to cause suffering to others and yourself out of spite and foolishness; that's entirely on you.
You don't like being called out on the facts; you don't like facts at all; because the reality and facts are, that you were wrong, and you chose evil, and it was obvious that you chose evil. If you refuse to learn the lesson, you choose to repeat the pain. I'd really prefer the situation I described in the original post. You call it spite. You say the base deserves to be defamed. You say my policies are against policies made by people who know what they're doing. You can't be reasoned with and much of the country shares in that political psychosis (though maybe they'd soften it just a little). The political options that remain involve making the choice knowing the left isn't coming back to the table, or never was at the table originally. Sorry. Divided states of America and all. Colonial overlords over the natives that are too dumb to pick well for themselves. you specifically chose the option of not being reasoned with. you dont' get to claim we're the ones who can't be reasoned with when you chose to reject reason itself. You're now also lying striaght out. The right is the one that went away from the table, and/or was never at it in the first place. The right is the side that chose division. You don't get to complain about division when you're the one who causes it. It's preposterous that you complain abotu the left as you do when it was the right that actually did those things. I made true statements; unless you can show my statements aren't true; then you've got nothing but rage and spite.
From post one you've illustrated the problem I was talking about. You embody the political behavior that made a president like Trump inevitable, this past election or one in the near future. I can't really ask for a better example protesting all my characterizations in ways that prove they're absolutely hitting the mark. I have to thank you for your transparency in that respect. Please, keep it up.
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On October 01 2017 05:16 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2017 05:14 zlefin wrote:On October 01 2017 05:13 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 05:07 zlefin wrote:On October 01 2017 05:04 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 04:51 zlefin wrote:
There's no lesson to be learned by us, you're the one who needs to learn the lesson: don't choose to hurt people; you willingly chose to cause suffering to others and yourself out of spite and foolishness; that's entirely on you.
You don't like being called out on the facts; you don't like facts at all; because the reality and facts are, that you were wrong, and you chose evil, and it was obvious that you chose evil. Let's go back to logic shall we instead of posting here only to piss people off. The dems and GOP were both trying to get the White House. GOP got it and DNC didn't. So by reasoning, ofc the DNC needs to reflect on themselves in comparison to the GOP. Its common sense. If the goal is to win at all costs, regardless of the suffering it causes to the world or to yourself; then yes that's true. But there's a larger questoin of whether the stance of winning regardless of the suffering you cause is appropriate or not. Do you have an opinion on that question? I got to admit, the Left's aggrandizing victimhood industry have definitely been suffering after Trump's victory. are you still on that nonsense abotu their being an actual serious industry of significant size on the left? (and seemingly ignoring that for what industry there is, there'es just as much of it on the right) You also didn't answer the question asked. I just did, it isn't healthy to have a system where racists/sexists scam artists can run rampant. So it is definitely appropriate for Trump to make a dent to them.
that is not a direct answer to the question of whether winning at all costs is appropriate.
and you're still pushing an argument based on a falsehood; can you substantiate it with some actual numbers?
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On October 01 2017 05:16 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2017 05:14 zlefin wrote:On October 01 2017 05:13 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 05:07 zlefin wrote:On October 01 2017 05:04 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 04:51 zlefin wrote:
There's no lesson to be learned by us, you're the one who needs to learn the lesson: don't choose to hurt people; you willingly chose to cause suffering to others and yourself out of spite and foolishness; that's entirely on you.
You don't like being called out on the facts; you don't like facts at all; because the reality and facts are, that you were wrong, and you chose evil, and it was obvious that you chose evil. Let's go back to logic shall we instead of posting here only to piss people off. The dems and GOP were both trying to get the White House. GOP got it and DNC didn't. So by reasoning, ofc the DNC needs to reflect on themselves in comparison to the GOP. Its common sense. If the goal is to win at all costs, regardless of the suffering it causes to the world or to yourself; then yes that's true. But there's a larger questoin of whether the stance of winning regardless of the suffering you cause is appropriate or not. Do you have an opinion on that question? I got to admit, the Left's aggrandizing victimhood industry have definitely been suffering after Trump's victory. are you still on that nonsense abotu their being an actual serious industry of significant size on the left? (and seemingly ignoring that for what industry there is, there'es just as much of it on the right) You also didn't answer the question asked. I just did, it isn't healthy to have a system where racists/sexists scam artists can run rampant. So it is definitely appropriate for Trump to make a dent to them.
You elected a racist, sexist, scam artist as president. If that's not running rampant, I don't know what is.
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On October 01 2017 05:17 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2017 05:12 zlefin wrote:On October 01 2017 05:09 Danglars wrote:On October 01 2017 04:51 zlefin wrote:
There's no lesson to be learned by us, you're the one who needs to learn the lesson: don't choose to hurt people; you willingly chose to cause suffering to others and yourself out of spite and foolishness; that's entirely on you.
You don't like being called out on the facts; you don't like facts at all; because the reality and facts are, that you were wrong, and you chose evil, and it was obvious that you chose evil. If you refuse to learn the lesson, you choose to repeat the pain. I'd really prefer the situation I described in the original post. You call it spite. You say the base deserves to be defamed. You say my policies are against policies made by people who know what they're doing. You can't be reasoned with and much of the country shares in that political psychosis (though maybe they'd soften it just a little). The political options that remain involve making the choice knowing the left isn't coming back to the table, or never was at the table originally. Sorry. Divided states of America and all. Colonial overlords over the natives that are too dumb to pick well for themselves. you specifically chose the option of not being reasoned with. you dont' get to claim we're the ones who can't be reasoned with when you chose to reject reason itself. You're now also lying striaght out. The right is the one that went away from the table, and/or was never at it in the first place. The right is the side that chose division. You don't get to complain about division when you're the one who causes it. It's preposterous that you complain abotu the left as you do when it was the right that actually did those things. I made true statements; unless you can show my statements aren't true; then you've got nothing but rage and spite. From post one you've illustrated the problem I was talking about. You embody the political behavior that made a president like Trump inevitable, this past election or one in the near future. I can't really ask for a better example protesting all my characterizations in ways that prove they're absolutely hitting the mark. I have to thank you for your transparency in that respect. Please, keep it up.
My attitude is one of righteous anger, and of calling out those who do horrible things to other people. You are against that, I understand; you don't want to be responsible for your actions, you don't want people to be called out for their misbehavior. I do indeed understand that some people would rather make others suffer than admit what they did was wrong. You've of course provided no evidence that my accusations were in any way wrong.
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On October 01 2017 05:18 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2017 05:16 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 05:14 zlefin wrote:On October 01 2017 05:13 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 05:07 zlefin wrote:On October 01 2017 05:04 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 04:51 zlefin wrote:
There's no lesson to be learned by us, you're the one who needs to learn the lesson: don't choose to hurt people; you willingly chose to cause suffering to others and yourself out of spite and foolishness; that's entirely on you.
You don't like being called out on the facts; you don't like facts at all; because the reality and facts are, that you were wrong, and you chose evil, and it was obvious that you chose evil. Let's go back to logic shall we instead of posting here only to piss people off. The dems and GOP were both trying to get the White House. GOP got it and DNC didn't. So by reasoning, ofc the DNC needs to reflect on themselves in comparison to the GOP. Its common sense. If the goal is to win at all costs, regardless of the suffering it causes to the world or to yourself; then yes that's true. But there's a larger questoin of whether the stance of winning regardless of the suffering you cause is appropriate or not. Do you have an opinion on that question? I got to admit, the Left's aggrandizing victimhood industry have definitely been suffering after Trump's victory. are you still on that nonsense abotu their being an actual serious industry of significant size on the left? (and seemingly ignoring that for what industry there is, there'es just as much of it on the right) You also didn't answer the question asked. I just did, it isn't healthy to have a system where racists/sexists scam artists can run rampant. So it is definitely appropriate for Trump to make a dent to them. You elected a racist, sexist, scam artist as president. If that's not running rampant, I don't know what is.
Trump probably employed way more women than Hillary ever did so there goes the sexist argument.
Regarding race though, being against illegal immigration just means that he wants to help out hard working immigrant workers to get paid deservedly at minimum wage and have a good system at reducing criminals from coming in.
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On October 01 2017 05:25 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2017 05:18 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 01 2017 05:16 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 05:14 zlefin wrote:On October 01 2017 05:13 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 05:07 zlefin wrote:On October 01 2017 05:04 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 04:51 zlefin wrote:
There's no lesson to be learned by us, you're the one who needs to learn the lesson: don't choose to hurt people; you willingly chose to cause suffering to others and yourself out of spite and foolishness; that's entirely on you.
You don't like being called out on the facts; you don't like facts at all; because the reality and facts are, that you were wrong, and you chose evil, and it was obvious that you chose evil. Let's go back to logic shall we instead of posting here only to piss people off. The dems and GOP were both trying to get the White House. GOP got it and DNC didn't. So by reasoning, ofc the DNC needs to reflect on themselves in comparison to the GOP. Its common sense. If the goal is to win at all costs, regardless of the suffering it causes to the world or to yourself; then yes that's true. But there's a larger questoin of whether the stance of winning regardless of the suffering you cause is appropriate or not. Do you have an opinion on that question? I got to admit, the Left's aggrandizing victimhood industry have definitely been suffering after Trump's victory. are you still on that nonsense abotu their being an actual serious industry of significant size on the left? (and seemingly ignoring that for what industry there is, there'es just as much of it on the right) You also didn't answer the question asked. I just did, it isn't healthy to have a system where racists/sexists scam artists can run rampant. So it is definitely appropriate for Trump to make a dent to them. You elected a racist, sexist, scam artist as president. If that's not running rampant, I don't know what is. Trump probably employed way more women than Hillary ever did so there goes the sexist argument. Regarding race though, being against illegal immigration just means that he wants to help out hard working immigrant workers to get paid deservedly at minimum wage and have a good system at reducing criminals from coming in.
Congratulations on being the last person left on Earth who thinks Trump isn't sexist. Sexists can employ women.
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On October 01 2017 05:25 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2017 05:18 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 01 2017 05:16 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 05:14 zlefin wrote:On October 01 2017 05:13 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 05:07 zlefin wrote:On October 01 2017 05:04 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 04:51 zlefin wrote:
There's no lesson to be learned by us, you're the one who needs to learn the lesson: don't choose to hurt people; you willingly chose to cause suffering to others and yourself out of spite and foolishness; that's entirely on you.
You don't like being called out on the facts; you don't like facts at all; because the reality and facts are, that you were wrong, and you chose evil, and it was obvious that you chose evil. Let's go back to logic shall we instead of posting here only to piss people off. The dems and GOP were both trying to get the White House. GOP got it and DNC didn't. So by reasoning, ofc the DNC needs to reflect on themselves in comparison to the GOP. Its common sense. If the goal is to win at all costs, regardless of the suffering it causes to the world or to yourself; then yes that's true. But there's a larger questoin of whether the stance of winning regardless of the suffering you cause is appropriate or not. Do you have an opinion on that question? I got to admit, the Left's aggrandizing victimhood industry have definitely been suffering after Trump's victory. are you still on that nonsense abotu their being an actual serious industry of significant size on the left? (and seemingly ignoring that for what industry there is, there'es just as much of it on the right) You also didn't answer the question asked. I just did, it isn't healthy to have a system where racists/sexists scam artists can run rampant. So it is definitely appropriate for Trump to make a dent to them. You elected a racist, sexist, scam artist as president. If that's not running rampant, I don't know what is. Trump probably employed way more women than Hillary ever did so there goes the sexist argument. Regarding race though, being against illegal immigration just means that he wants to help out hard working immigrant workers to get paid deservedly at minimum wage and have a good system at reducing criminals from coming in.
Well, at least you admit he's a scam artist.
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How is Trump's approval in the US nowadays? Any prospect of him getting impeached or resignation before his term ends?
Obama wasn't great but he looks like a titan compared to Trump.
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RiK doesn't believe anything. He just says whatever he thinks will piss of liberals. Peek online Trump supporter.
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On October 01 2017 05:33 sc-darkness wrote:
How is Trump's approval in the US nowadays? Any prospect of him getting impeached or resignation before his term ends?
Obama wasn't great but he looks like a titan compared to Trump.
last I heard, he was hovering around 38%, no matter how horrible he is nearly all of his base sticks by him. it goes up and down a little at times, but keeps stabilizing back to that.
It depends on how the mid-term elections go, and what mueller's investigation finds; nothing else is likely to hurt him; his people don't care that he causes suffering and is horrible at his job.
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On October 01 2017 05:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2017 05:25 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 05:18 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 01 2017 05:16 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 05:14 zlefin wrote:On October 01 2017 05:13 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 05:07 zlefin wrote:On October 01 2017 05:04 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 01 2017 04:51 zlefin wrote:
There's no lesson to be learned by us, you're the one who needs to learn the lesson: don't choose to hurt people; you willingly chose to cause suffering to others and yourself out of spite and foolishness; that's entirely on you.
You don't like being called out on the facts; you don't like facts at all; because the reality and facts are, that you were wrong, and you chose evil, and it was obvious that you chose evil. Let's go back to logic shall we instead of posting here only to piss people off. The dems and GOP were both trying to get the White House. GOP got it and DNC didn't. So by reasoning, ofc the DNC needs to reflect on themselves in comparison to the GOP. Its common sense. If the goal is to win at all costs, regardless of the suffering it causes to the world or to yourself; then yes that's true. But there's a larger questoin of whether the stance of winning regardless of the suffering you cause is appropriate or not. Do you have an opinion on that question? I got to admit, the Left's aggrandizing victimhood industry have definitely been suffering after Trump's victory. are you still on that nonsense abotu their being an actual serious industry of significant size on the left? (and seemingly ignoring that for what industry there is, there'es just as much of it on the right) You also didn't answer the question asked. I just did, it isn't healthy to have a system where racists/sexists scam artists can run rampant. So it is definitely appropriate for Trump to make a dent to them. You elected a racist, sexist, scam artist as president. If that's not running rampant, I don't know what is. Trump probably employed way more women than Hillary ever did so there goes the sexist argument. Regarding race though, being against illegal immigration just means that he wants to help out hard working immigrant workers to get paid deservedly at minimum wage and have a good system at reducing criminals from coming in. Well, at least you admit he's a scam artist.
I think there are some things he is walking back on from his campaign promises after gaining new information as our President but that's just being proper smart on his part.
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On October 01 2017 04:08 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2017 03:16 micronesia wrote:
The main concern is not with Trump acting the way he is, but with people still supporting him.
I mean, if a goat was elected president but had trouble getting any major legislation pushed through since all it does is eat plants, we wouldn't blame the goat, we'd blame the people who thought it was a good idea to elect the goat, and even more so, we'd blame the people who give the goat high marks and plan to re-elect the goat for its role in rescuing Puerto Rico from the ongoing disaster over there (not that we should blame the goat either, but you get the idea).
Kind of the same thing here... Trump didn't do much to hide what he was before he was elected. People voted for him, and they are predominantly the problem. Other parties (e.g., Hillary) are also at fault for the way things turned out, but the most fundamental blame, in my opinion, points at people who voted for the person doing things like today's tweets. I don’t think the President retains support for his brilliant job at passing legislation or his vocal response to Puerto Rico. I do have a problem with people that think Trump is performing in his role well (or will drain the swamp and pass great tax reform). Don’t conflate that with the original decision to vote for him. Nobody listened when Americans were fed up with Obamacare, immigration policy, and legislation by technocratic elite. We (They) sent Trump to office to send the message that the status quo must end, this kind of bipartisan DC consensus in rejection of campaign promises to the contrary. It’s not an endorsement of the messenger or all the misdeeds and harm he will do in office. It’s that you didn’t get the message and still refuse to see why Trump got elected, preferring to engage in defamation of his base. I really wish it didn’t come down to this. We learned that the fiction of a ‘United’ states was only indulged if you voted the way elite opinion wanted you to vote.
I'm gonna leave the question alone of what Trump supporters as a whole intended when they voted for him. Trump supporters have had so many motives read onto them at this point you'd think they were all schizophrenic.
But did you expect Trump to turn out better than this? Because you're railing against "elite opinion," presumably the same elite opinion that said that Trump was unprecedented and terrible, but then you got your way, and he did a bunch of unprecedented and terrible things. Doesn't that seem to prove the "elite opinion" at least partially right? People are drawing comparisons to Katrina, but even Bush didn't get in a Twitter flame war with the mayor of New Orleans when the levies broke. This really is uniquely awful.
If someone thinks that voting for Trump was a mistake, and then he does some new terrible thing, why is it not fair for them to point to the new terrible thing as further evidence for their hypothesis?
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On October 01 2017 05:51 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2017 04:08 Danglars wrote:On October 01 2017 03:16 micronesia wrote:
The main concern is not with Trump acting the way he is, but with people still supporting him.
I mean, if a goat was elected president but had trouble getting any major legislation pushed through since all it does is eat plants, we wouldn't blame the goat, we'd blame the people who thought it was a good idea to elect the goat, and even more so, we'd blame the people who give the goat high marks and plan to re-elect the goat for its role in rescuing Puerto Rico from the ongoing disaster over there (not that we should blame the goat either, but you get the idea).
Kind of the same thing here... Trump didn't do much to hide what he was before he was elected. People voted for him, and they are predominantly the problem. Other parties (e.g., Hillary) are also at fault for the way things turned out, but the most fundamental blame, in my opinion, points at people who voted for the person doing things like today's tweets. I don’t think the President retains support for his brilliant job at passing legislation or his vocal response to Puerto Rico. I do have a problem with people that think Trump is performing in his role well (or will drain the swamp and pass great tax reform). Don’t conflate that with the original decision to vote for him. Nobody listened when Americans were fed up with Obamacare, immigration policy, and legislation by technocratic elite. We (They) sent Trump to office to send the message that the status quo must end, this kind of bipartisan DC consensus in rejection of campaign promises to the contrary. It’s not an endorsement of the messenger or all the misdeeds and harm he will do in office. It’s that you didn’t get the message and still refuse to see why Trump got elected, preferring to engage in defamation of his base. I really wish it didn’t come down to this. We learned that the fiction of a ‘United’ states was only indulged if you voted the way elite opinion wanted you to vote. I'm gonna leave the question alone of what Trump supporters as a whole intended when they voted for him. Trump supporters have had so many motives read onto them at this point you'd think they were all schizophrenic. But did you expect Trump to turn out better than this? Because you're railing against "elite opinion," presumably the same elite opinion that said that Trump was unprecedented and terrible, but then you got your way, and he did a bunch of unprecedented and terrible things. Doesn't that seem to prove the "elite opinion" at least partially right? People are drawing comparisons to Katrina, but even Bush didn't get in a Twitter flame war with the mayor of New Orleans when the levies broke. This really is uniquely awful. If someone thinks that voting for Trump was a mistake, and then he does some new terrible thing, why is it not fair for them to point to the new terrible thing as further evidence for their hypothesis?
Well I think its that the PR governor praising Federal Responses (http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/29/gov-of-puerto-rico-praises-federal-response-to-hurricane-video/)
And then the mayor just completely shit on the rescue effort.
So of course Trump will be like "Wtf man, we've been giving you aid. The road have been damaged, of course there will be transportation problems."
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United States42008 Posts
On October 01 2017 02:02 Plansix wrote:
Man, remember when Obama said fuck you to hurricane victims? Or Bush for that matter?
The people of Louisiana remember Obama playing golf all through Katrina.
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On October 01 2017 05:56 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2017 05:51 ChristianS wrote:On October 01 2017 04:08 Danglars wrote:On October 01 2017 03:16 micronesia wrote:
The main concern is not with Trump acting the way he is, but with people still supporting him.
I mean, if a goat was elected president but had trouble getting any major legislation pushed through since all it does is eat plants, we wouldn't blame the goat, we'd blame the people who thought it was a good idea to elect the goat, and even more so, we'd blame the people who give the goat high marks and plan to re-elect the goat for its role in rescuing Puerto Rico from the ongoing disaster over there (not that we should blame the goat either, but you get the idea).
Kind of the same thing here... Trump didn't do much to hide what he was before he was elected. People voted for him, and they are predominantly the problem. Other parties (e.g., Hillary) are also at fault for the way things turned out, but the most fundamental blame, in my opinion, points at people who voted for the person doing things like today's tweets. I don’t think the President retains support for his brilliant job at passing legislation or his vocal response to Puerto Rico. I do have a problem with people that think Trump is performing in his role well (or will drain the swamp and pass great tax reform). Don’t conflate that with the original decision to vote for him. Nobody listened when Americans were fed up with Obamacare, immigration policy, and legislation by technocratic elite. We (They) sent Trump to office to send the message that the status quo must end, this kind of bipartisan DC consensus in rejection of campaign promises to the contrary. It’s not an endorsement of the messenger or all the misdeeds and harm he will do in office. It’s that you didn’t get the message and still refuse to see why Trump got elected, preferring to engage in defamation of his base. I really wish it didn’t come down to this. We learned that the fiction of a ‘United’ states was only indulged if you voted the way elite opinion wanted you to vote. I'm gonna leave the question alone of what Trump supporters as a whole intended when they voted for him. Trump supporters have had so many motives read onto them at this point you'd think they were all schizophrenic. But did you expect Trump to turn out better than this? Because you're railing against "elite opinion," presumably the same elite opinion that said that Trump was unprecedented and terrible, but then you got your way, and he did a bunch of unprecedented and terrible things. Doesn't that seem to prove the "elite opinion" at least partially right? People are drawing comparisons to Katrina, but even Bush didn't get in a Twitter flame war with the mayor of New Orleans when the levies broke. This really is uniquely awful. If someone thinks that voting for Trump was a mistake, and then he does some new terrible thing, why is it not fair for them to point to the new terrible thing as further evidence for their hypothesis? Well I think its that the PR governor praising Federal Responses (http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/29/gov-of-puerto-rico-praises-federal-response-to-hurricane-video/) And then the mayor just completely shit on the rescue effort. So of course Trump will be like "Wtf man, we've been giving you aid. The road have been damaged, of course there will be transportation problems."
Here's the thing: either the federal response has been adequate, or it hasn't. I'm not really in a position to answer that. Some of the articles coming out suggest that most of the federal response has been alright, but the WH has really dropped the ball. But I don't really have the understanding of how disaster relief works to say for certain.
But if the administration's response has been inadequate, then the mayor is right to criticize it, and Trump is even further in the wrong to attack her for pointing out the bad response. Even if it turns out that current reports are unfair and the administration has actually done a good job responding to the disaster, it's still an obviously wrong and stupid thing to:
- criticize people who are on the ground helping while the disaster is still going on.
- bring up irrelevant subjects like the PR debt, making it seem like you're trying to extract something from them in return for aid.
- speculate about whether it's worth it to rebuild the island.
- imply that Puerto Ricans are a bunch of freeloaders for wanting aid after a disaster.
There's really no defense for it. If someone posted on TL about "Well Puerto Ricans should stop expecting aid from the world and just fend for themselves" they easily might get a warning or temp ban for it. Why should we accept that sort of response from our president?
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