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On September 27 2017 01:19 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 01:15 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 27 2017 01:12 Liquid`Drone wrote:
He's saying you should be embarrassed about having suck weak knowledge about a subject you are voicing your opinion on. Not about being white or about white transgressions of the past or whatever you are arguing against. You really should learn to read and understand a complete argument. And yet doesn't explain anything further than that. "You don't understand man!" is not a good argument. So I have to take it as a troll comment. You're literally the only person in the thread who doesn't understand his explanation. Or pretends not to. You don't understand isn't meant to be an argument, it's the situation we're in. You are meant to want to improve that situation.
Yeah I want to improve the situation.
But there are people out there specifically having the white men's burden argument here
On September 27 2017 00:02 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 14:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 26 2017 14:48 LegalLord wrote:On September 26 2017 14:38 Wegandi wrote:
I've gotten my parents to agree that policing is out of control and needs reform and that demilitarization and the 4th Amendment is important, but they cannot stand the kneeling/flag stuff and BLM/all white people are racist non-sense. (There are a million police abuse / killing videos of unarmed white people to show to white people. They aren't as publicized as when a black person is killed, but trust me there are a ton of them. Show this stuff to white people and they'll be a lot more open to police reforms. POLICE REFORMS is the goal right?) Stories like this multiplied across a wide swath of the population should perhaps be an indication that it's probably better to actually try to reform things than dick around with trying to prove everyone isnt* a racist. The will is there but the protesters haven't caught up to it. Now you're getting it. That's what people like you, wegandi, xdaunt, danglars, etc... are supposed to be doing. Sounds a lot like the white man's burden repurposed. Black activists like GH tell whites they're supposed to be all about police reform, while berating them that they're white supremacists and racists and privileged. I'd like to join others in solving the kind of issues like aggressive police officers that know a jury will let em off or overuse of SWAT teams. But the debate, if you can call it that, among the left-wing is all about blaming the problems on whitey. The oppressors have to confess their oppression in this idiotic public ceremony and agree to having been born racist/unconsciously furthering the KKK's agenda. Show nested quote +On September 26 2017 15:11 LegalLord wrote:On September 26 2017 14:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
Are you arguing with my argument or a manifestation of several viewpoints to your left? Yeah, the problem is that there's no way to give a proper answer to that since it's completely and utterly unclear what you stand for. You do seem to think Coates has some deep point, so I think you fit nicely into what it is I'm arguing against. And you are one of the most prominent "everybody admit you're racists" advocates around here. On September 26 2017 14:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
Do you agree that the protesters should stop trying to prove everyone isn't racist and focus on reforming things? No, because it's not their fight. Sure, if in the pursuit of actual reform they stand as a steadfast opposition to any form of change that's one thing. But noting how the pro-call-everything-racism crowd is really a joke that needs to be dismissed without consideration, that's something they can go on and respond to. Because it's a real stretch to say they the anti-call-everything-racist crowd started it. Coates is a timely example in this debate. If you can agree with that sort of venom and propose it has a deep point, you'll be laughed at and dismissed. He's just too obviously a race-baiting fool that no editor dared to touch. It's like self-identifying that you're an extremist on this issue, then trying to appear reasonable. Worth a re-read if you're ready to be convinced that Trump's ideology is white supremacy and whiteness is at the very core of his power.
I'm saying that it is wrong to go on campaign to demonize white people.
Then the response I get is "Hey you don't understand man!"
...
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On September 27 2017 01:25 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 01:19 Nebuchad wrote:On September 27 2017 01:15 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 27 2017 01:12 Liquid`Drone wrote:
He's saying you should be embarrassed about having suck weak knowledge about a subject you are voicing your opinion on. Not about being white or about white transgressions of the past or whatever you are arguing against. You really should learn to read and understand a complete argument. And yet doesn't explain anything further than that. "You don't understand man!" is not a good argument. So I have to take it as a troll comment. You're literally the only person in the thread who doesn't understand his explanation. Or pretends not to. You don't understand isn't meant to be an argument, it's the situation we're in. You are meant to want to improve that situation. Yeah I want to improve the situation. But there are people out there specifically having the white men's burden argument here Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 00:02 Danglars wrote:On September 26 2017 14:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 26 2017 14:48 LegalLord wrote:On September 26 2017 14:38 Wegandi wrote:
I've gotten my parents to agree that policing is out of control and needs reform and that demilitarization and the 4th Amendment is important, but they cannot stand the kneeling/flag stuff and BLM/all white people are racist non-sense. (There are a million police abuse / killing videos of unarmed white people to show to white people. They aren't as publicized as when a black person is killed, but trust me there are a ton of them. Show this stuff to white people and they'll be a lot more open to police reforms. POLICE REFORMS is the goal right?) Stories like this multiplied across a wide swath of the population should perhaps be an indication that it's probably better to actually try to reform things than dick around with trying to prove everyone isnt* a racist. The will is there but the protesters haven't caught up to it. Now you're getting it. That's what people like you, wegandi, xdaunt, danglars, etc... are supposed to be doing. Sounds a lot like the white man's burden repurposed. Black activists like GH tell whites they're supposed to be all about police reform, while berating them that they're white supremacists and racists and privileged. I'd like to join others in solving the kind of issues like aggressive police officers that know a jury will let em off or overuse of SWAT teams. But the debate, if you can call it that, among the left-wing is all about blaming the problems on whitey. The oppressors have to confess their oppression in this idiotic public ceremony and agree to having been born racist/unconsciously furthering the KKK's agenda. On September 26 2017 15:11 LegalLord wrote:On September 26 2017 14:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
Are you arguing with my argument or a manifestation of several viewpoints to your left? Yeah, the problem is that there's no way to give a proper answer to that since it's completely and utterly unclear what you stand for. You do seem to think Coates has some deep point, so I think you fit nicely into what it is I'm arguing against. And you are one of the most prominent "everybody admit you're racists" advocates around here. On September 26 2017 14:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
Do you agree that the protesters should stop trying to prove everyone isn't racist and focus on reforming things? No, because it's not their fight. Sure, if in the pursuit of actual reform they stand as a steadfast opposition to any form of change that's one thing. But noting how the pro-call-everything-racism crowd is really a joke that needs to be dismissed without consideration, that's something they can go on and respond to. Because it's a real stretch to say they the anti-call-everything-racist crowd started it. Coates is a timely example in this debate. If you can agree with that sort of venom and propose it has a deep point, you'll be laughed at and dismissed. He's just too obviously a race-baiting fool that no editor dared to touch. It's like self-identifying that you're an extremist on this issue, then trying to appear reasonable. Worth a re-read if you're ready to be convinced that Trump's ideology is white supremacy and whiteness is at the very core of his power. I'm saying that it is wrong to go on campaign to demonize white people. Then the response I get is "Hey you don't understand man!" ...
Your still not getting it.
Your saying its wrong to campaign on demonizing white people. People say you dont understand because there is no campaign to demonize white people in the first place.
There is a campaign for equality and to remind people that the US still has a long way to go towards that equality.
Blacks are trying to remind white people that they do not experience this inequality because they are white middle class citizens. Life can be a whole lot different if your black, let alone a poor black person.
Your being called ignorant because your assuming a campaign that does not exist
(yes some fringe elements exist, they always do, on every side. So long as they remain fringe you ignore them).
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United States41995 Posts
On September 27 2017 01:06 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 00:48 KwarK wrote:On September 27 2017 00:44 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 27 2017 00:42 KwarK wrote:On September 27 2017 00:38 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 27 2017 00:37 brian wrote:On September 27 2017 00:33 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 27 2017 00:27 KwarK wrote:On September 27 2017 00:24 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 27 2017 00:15 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
The football players don't actually think that all white people were active participants in the transatlantic slave trade. You're not understanding what the issue under discussion is. You should be embarrassed to have such a weak understanding of a subject that you're trying to be involved in. According to you, yeah. But according to facts, people these days didn't choose to be born as "white". I know it, you know it, and pretty much everybody knows it. Plus the slaves were freed too. Unless you have a time machine to go back and force all the British/French/Spanish people/empire that owned slave to pay reparation, there is no clear answer to this so-called "white supremacy" problem. Or are you willing to go back in ancestry.com to look for all the descendant of slave owners/slaves (plenty of blacks that aren't descendant of slaves just letting you know) and make descendant of slave owners pay reparation to descendant slaves? By the way, I'm not ashamed. I am a realist, not an ideologue. And according to reality, you can't go around shaming people to spread your message. The solution to the white supremacy problem is really simple. Treat black people like you treat white people. That's literally it. You're still not understanding the issue at all. You don't need a time machine to treat African Americans with respect. And again, literally nobody is saying that white people chose to be born white and should be shamed for it. That's an argument you made up in order to attack. Don't do that. Then black people(and others allies of black rights) should treat white people/others with respect too instead of using insulting, shaming tactics in violent manners. alternatively, maybe everyone regardless of race. Yes, this, 100%. There isn't a side here advocating disrespect. I sure hope not. Which begs the question of why you're trying to argue against those advocating disrespect when we both agree that they don't exist. Well you are the one that said "you should be embarrassed" which essentially means "how shameful". That's not a respectful tactic.
How embarrassing this must be for you.
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On September 27 2017 01:24 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 01:14 Broetchenholer wrote:
If the resident..."conservative" posters in this thread feel ashamed by being called racists, maybe they should think about why they feel that way. If i am called a son of a bitch, i am laughing at the insult because i know my mother wasn't one. If i am called racist i am not acting ashamed except if i come to realize i actually was racist. So if you feel ashamed, maybe stop doing racist things? Like waving off racism because the slaves were freed. Or act pissed about black people raising the fist and then defend the free speech of neonazis with swastikas and doing Hitler salutes. I'll go ahead and speak for the resident conservative posters on this one: We do not feel ashamed about anything because we know that we have not done anything racist. You are very badly missing our point. Plansix seems to be catching on, but he's not quite ready to fully embrace severity of the messaging problem that y'all have.
What the fuck are you talking about? Catching on? My argument has been the same from day one. It isn’t my fault that people are so quick to whine about being called racist they don’t wait until it happens.
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On September 27 2017 01:34 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 01:24 xDaunt wrote:On September 27 2017 01:14 Broetchenholer wrote:
If the resident..."conservative" posters in this thread feel ashamed by being called racists, maybe they should think about why they feel that way. If i am called a son of a bitch, i am laughing at the insult because i know my mother wasn't one. If i am called racist i am not acting ashamed except if i come to realize i actually was racist. So if you feel ashamed, maybe stop doing racist things? Like waving off racism because the slaves were freed. Or act pissed about black people raising the fist and then defend the free speech of neonazis with swastikas and doing Hitler salutes. I'll go ahead and speak for the resident conservative posters on this one: We do not feel ashamed about anything because we know that we have not done anything racist. You are very badly missing our point. Plansix seems to be catching on, but he's not quite ready to fully embrace severity of the messaging problem that y'all have. What the fuck are you talking about? Catching on? My argument has been the same from day one. It isn’t my fault that people are so quick to whine about being called racist they don’t wait until it happens.
Maybe I was premature to say that you were catching on. Oh well, back to the drawing board.
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United States41995 Posts
On September 27 2017 01:24 xDaunt wrote:
We do not feel ashamed about anything because we know that we have not done anything racist.
And assholes don't think they're being assholes, they think it's everyone else being too sensitive. But the thing is, assholes don't get to decide if they're being assholes, everyone else does. It's not up to them.
This is the same.
Honestly this is one of the more fundamental parts of basic human interactions that a lot of people, particularly young men on the internet, don't seem to grasp. How people interpret your actions is not up to you. You may judge yourself by your intentions but nobody else is, they're just judging you by the shit you say and do.
In this regard you're no different from the "nice guys" who bitch about how girls can't see how great they are etc. If the liberals could only see how not racist xDaunt is in his heart then maybe they'd stop getting so mad about him regurgitating and defending the 14 words.
You can know you're not a racist if you like. But literally nobody cares what you know about yourself.
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On September 27 2017 01:25 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 01:19 Nebuchad wrote:On September 27 2017 01:15 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 27 2017 01:12 Liquid`Drone wrote:
He's saying you should be embarrassed about having suck weak knowledge about a subject you are voicing your opinion on. Not about being white or about white transgressions of the past or whatever you are arguing against. You really should learn to read and understand a complete argument. And yet doesn't explain anything further than that. "You don't understand man!" is not a good argument. So I have to take it as a troll comment. You're literally the only person in the thread who doesn't understand his explanation. Or pretends not to. You don't understand isn't meant to be an argument, it's the situation we're in. You are meant to want to improve that situation. Yeah I want to improve the situation. But there are people out there specifically having the white men's burden argument here Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 00:02 Danglars wrote:On September 26 2017 14:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 26 2017 14:48 LegalLord wrote:On September 26 2017 14:38 Wegandi wrote:
I've gotten my parents to agree that policing is out of control and needs reform and that demilitarization and the 4th Amendment is important, but they cannot stand the kneeling/flag stuff and BLM/all white people are racist non-sense. (There are a million police abuse / killing videos of unarmed white people to show to white people. They aren't as publicized as when a black person is killed, but trust me there are a ton of them. Show this stuff to white people and they'll be a lot more open to police reforms. POLICE REFORMS is the goal right?) Stories like this multiplied across a wide swath of the population should perhaps be an indication that it's probably better to actually try to reform things than dick around with trying to prove everyone isnt* a racist. The will is there but the protesters haven't caught up to it. Now you're getting it. That's what people like you, wegandi, xdaunt, danglars, etc... are supposed to be doing. Sounds a lot like the white man's burden repurposed. Black activists like GH tell whites they're supposed to be all about police reform, while berating them that they're white supremacists and racists and privileged. I'd like to join others in solving the kind of issues like aggressive police officers that know a jury will let em off or overuse of SWAT teams. But the debate, if you can call it that, among the left-wing is all about blaming the problems on whitey. The oppressors have to confess their oppression in this idiotic public ceremony and agree to having been born racist/unconsciously furthering the KKK's agenda. On September 26 2017 15:11 LegalLord wrote:On September 26 2017 14:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
Are you arguing with my argument or a manifestation of several viewpoints to your left? Yeah, the problem is that there's no way to give a proper answer to that since it's completely and utterly unclear what you stand for. You do seem to think Coates has some deep point, so I think you fit nicely into what it is I'm arguing against. And you are one of the most prominent "everybody admit you're racists" advocates around here. On September 26 2017 14:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
Do you agree that the protesters should stop trying to prove everyone isn't racist and focus on reforming things? No, because it's not their fight. Sure, if in the pursuit of actual reform they stand as a steadfast opposition to any form of change that's one thing. But noting how the pro-call-everything-racism crowd is really a joke that needs to be dismissed without consideration, that's something they can go on and respond to. Because it's a real stretch to say they the anti-call-everything-racist crowd started it. Coates is a timely example in this debate. If you can agree with that sort of venom and propose it has a deep point, you'll be laughed at and dismissed. He's just too obviously a race-baiting fool that no editor dared to touch. It's like self-identifying that you're an extremist on this issue, then trying to appear reasonable. Worth a re-read if you're ready to be convinced that Trump's ideology is white supremacy and whiteness is at the very core of his power. I'm saying that it is wrong to go on campaign to demonize white people. Then the response I get is "Hey you don't understand man!" ...
Okay, we just had our general election in Germany and the far right AfD got 13 % of the vote. The first thing my christian conservative coworker said when i voiced my disbelieve that so many people voted for them was, that not all of them are racist, and we shouldn't judge the party or the voters that hard. After all, there would be no party left to hold christian conservative positions she wanted.
So, i checked the new members of parliament this "not racist" party will send to represent voters, and more then a dozen have a clear back ground in racist and even neonazi ideology. If you vote for a party and has a big block of neonazis in them and does everything to be elected by neonazis, you are a empowering neonazis. Your problem is the same. You are not being demonized for being white, you are being demonized for trying to keep minorities in your country unequal or not giving a shit if they stay unequal through your actions or the way you talk about politial issues. The same way anyone who elected AfD is being demonized not for voting for a conservative "christian" party, but for one that also courts neonazis.
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On September 27 2017 01:25 RealityIsKing wrote:
I'm saying that it is wrong to go on campaign to demonize white people.
Then the response I get is "Hey you don't understand man!"
...
It's a fair point. And you're absolutely right that the extreme rhetoric has reached the level where they basically ask whites to apologize for being born white and for the slavery of their ancestors.
I was responding to this one:
On September 27 2017 00:33 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 00:27 KwarK wrote:On September 27 2017 00:24 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 27 2017 00:15 KwarK wrote:On September 27 2017 00:14 RealityIsKing wrote:
Lots of people have to realize that most of the white people in the country had nothing to do with the slaving of blacks.
They didn't choose to be born as "whites". The football players don't actually think that all white people were active participants in the transatlantic slave trade. You're not understanding what the issue under discussion is. You should be embarrassed to have such a weak understanding of a subject that you're trying to be involved in. According to you, yeah. But according to facts, people these days didn't choose to be born as "white". I know it, you know it, and pretty much everybody knows it. Plus the slaves were freed too. Unless you have a time machine to go back and force all the British/French/Spanish people/empire that owned slave to pay reparation, there is no clear answer to this so-called "white supremacy" problem. Or are you willing to go back in ancestry.com to look for all the descendant of slave owners/slaves (plenty of blacks that aren't descendant of slaves just letting you know) and make descendant of slave owners pay reparation to descendant slaves? By the way, I'm not ashamed. I am a realist, not an ideologue. And according to reality, you can't go around shaming people to spread your message. The solution to the white supremacy problem is really simple. Treat black people like you treat white people. That's literally it. You're still not understanding the issue at all. You don't need a time machine to treat African Americans with respect. And again, literally nobody is saying that white people chose to be born white and should be shamed for it. That's an argument you made up in order to attack. Don't do that. Then black people(and others allies of black rights) should treat white people/others with respect too instead of using insulting, shaming tactics in violent manners.
Namely, the PoC here and the activist allies don't understand the damage they are doing to getting problems recognized and addressed. They literally think the insulting tactics aren't too bad, and the shaming is either just fine or justified. Convincing them of this goes from pointless to counterproductive. It's just tribalism repeated on another issue. Either you endorse the shaming, belittling, defamation or you're not taking black issues seriously enough.
See how little progress Falling made with the good intentions expressed in this post. He went around and around and it bridged to other topics with no show of promise on the first.
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On September 27 2017 01:37 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 01:24 xDaunt wrote:
We do not feel ashamed about anything because we know that we have not done anything racist. And assholes don't think they're being assholes, they think it's everyone else being too sensitive. But the thing is, assholes don't get to decide if they're being assholes, everyone else does. It's not up to them. This is the same. Honestly this is one of the more fundamental parts of basic human interactions that a lot of people, particularly young men on the internet, don't seem to grasp. How people interpret your actions is not up to you. You may judge yourself by your intentions but nobody else is, they're just judging you by the shit you say and do. In this regard you're no different from the "nice guys" who bitch about how girls can't see how great they are etc. If the liberals could only see how not racist xDaunt is in his heart then maybe they'd stop getting so mad about him regurgitating and defending the 14 words. You can know you're not a racist if you like. But literally nobody cares what you know about yourself.
You really don't have to be so quick to demonstrate how little you understand our point.
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On September 27 2017 01:36 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 01:34 Plansix wrote:On September 27 2017 01:24 xDaunt wrote:On September 27 2017 01:14 Broetchenholer wrote:
If the resident..."conservative" posters in this thread feel ashamed by being called racists, maybe they should think about why they feel that way. If i am called a son of a bitch, i am laughing at the insult because i know my mother wasn't one. If i am called racist i am not acting ashamed except if i come to realize i actually was racist. So if you feel ashamed, maybe stop doing racist things? Like waving off racism because the slaves were freed. Or act pissed about black people raising the fist and then defend the free speech of neonazis with swastikas and doing Hitler salutes. I'll go ahead and speak for the resident conservative posters on this one: We do not feel ashamed about anything because we know that we have not done anything racist. You are very badly missing our point. Plansix seems to be catching on, but he's not quite ready to fully embrace severity of the messaging problem that y'all have. What the fuck are you talking about? Catching on? My argument has been the same from day one. It isn’t my fault that people are so quick to whine about being called racist they don’t wait until it happens. Maybe I was premature to say that you were catching on. Oh well, back to the drawing board.
Do you think that not being racist is sufficient to combat racial injustice? Is it worthy of praise if someone simply avoids repressing racial minorities?
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On September 27 2017 01:45 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 01:25 RealityIsKing wrote:
I'm saying that it is wrong to go on campaign to demonize white people.
Then the response I get is "Hey you don't understand man!"
... It's a fair point. And you're absolutely right that the extreme rhetoric has reached the level where they basically ask whites to apologize for being born white and for the slavery of their ancestors. I was responding to this one: Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 00:33 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 27 2017 00:27 KwarK wrote:On September 27 2017 00:24 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 27 2017 00:15 KwarK wrote:On September 27 2017 00:14 RealityIsKing wrote:
Lots of people have to realize that most of the white people in the country had nothing to do with the slaving of blacks.
They didn't choose to be born as "whites". The football players don't actually think that all white people were active participants in the transatlantic slave trade. You're not understanding what the issue under discussion is. You should be embarrassed to have such a weak understanding of a subject that you're trying to be involved in. According to you, yeah. But according to facts, people these days didn't choose to be born as "white". I know it, you know it, and pretty much everybody knows it. Plus the slaves were freed too. Unless you have a time machine to go back and force all the British/French/Spanish people/empire that owned slave to pay reparation, there is no clear answer to this so-called "white supremacy" problem. Or are you willing to go back in ancestry.com to look for all the descendant of slave owners/slaves (plenty of blacks that aren't descendant of slaves just letting you know) and make descendant of slave owners pay reparation to descendant slaves? By the way, I'm not ashamed. I am a realist, not an ideologue. And according to reality, you can't go around shaming people to spread your message. The solution to the white supremacy problem is really simple. Treat black people like you treat white people. That's literally it. You're still not understanding the issue at all. You don't need a time machine to treat African Americans with respect. And again, literally nobody is saying that white people chose to be born white and should be shamed for it. That's an argument you made up in order to attack. Don't do that. Then black people(and others allies of black rights) should treat white people/others with respect too instead of using insulting, shaming tactics in violent manners. Namely, the PoC here and the activist allies don't understand the damage they are doing to getting problems recognized and addressed. They literally think the insulting tactics aren't too bad, and the shaming is either just fine or justified. Convincing them of this goes from pointless to counterproductive. It's just tribalism repeated on another issue. Either you endorse the shaming, belittling, defamation or you're not taking black issues seriously enough. See how little progress Falling made with the good intentions expressed in this post. He went around and around and it bridged to other topics with no show of promise on the first.
Here's the interesting quandary that we conservatives find ourselves in. Does the other side not grasp our point because they are incapable of seeing past the language to the real issues? Does the other side really intend to continue use the language to bludgeon us for purely political purposes despite claiming that this is not their intent? I think my answer is that the political leaders on the other largely fall under the latter category and the foot soldiers fall into the former.
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On September 27 2017 01:45 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 01:37 KwarK wrote:On September 27 2017 01:24 xDaunt wrote:
We do not feel ashamed about anything because we know that we have not done anything racist. And assholes don't think they're being assholes, they think it's everyone else being too sensitive. But the thing is, assholes don't get to decide if they're being assholes, everyone else does. It's not up to them. This is the same. Honestly this is one of the more fundamental parts of basic human interactions that a lot of people, particularly young men on the internet, don't seem to grasp. How people interpret your actions is not up to you. You may judge yourself by your intentions but nobody else is, they're just judging you by the shit you say and do. In this regard you're no different from the "nice guys" who bitch about how girls can't see how great they are etc. If the liberals could only see how not racist xDaunt is in his heart then maybe they'd stop getting so mad about him regurgitating and defending the 14 words. You can know you're not a racist if you like. But literally nobody cares what you know about yourself. You really don't have to be so quick to demonstrate how little you understand our point.
Yes, xDaunt, the man who knows he is no racist and perfectly neutral in his view.
Yet casually called black protesters vermin.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-mega-thread?page=5099#101965
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On September 27 2017 01:53 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 01:45 xDaunt wrote:On September 27 2017 01:37 KwarK wrote:On September 27 2017 01:24 xDaunt wrote:
We do not feel ashamed about anything because we know that we have not done anything racist. And assholes don't think they're being assholes, they think it's everyone else being too sensitive. But the thing is, assholes don't get to decide if they're being assholes, everyone else does. It's not up to them. This is the same. Honestly this is one of the more fundamental parts of basic human interactions that a lot of people, particularly young men on the internet, don't seem to grasp. How people interpret your actions is not up to you. You may judge yourself by your intentions but nobody else is, they're just judging you by the shit you say and do. In this regard you're no different from the "nice guys" who bitch about how girls can't see how great they are etc. If the liberals could only see how not racist xDaunt is in his heart then maybe they'd stop getting so mad about him regurgitating and defending the 14 words. You can know you're not a racist if you like. But literally nobody cares what you know about yourself. You really don't have to be so quick to demonstrate how little you understand our point. Yes, xDaunt, the man who knows he is no racist and perfectly neutral in his view. Yet casually called black protesters vermin. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-mega-thread?page=5099#101965
You realize how stupid you look when you intentionally misrepresent other people's posts, right? Everyone knows what I said because it has been discussed to death. I made it very clear that I referred to the rioters and looters.
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United States41995 Posts
On September 27 2017 01:45 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 01:37 KwarK wrote:On September 27 2017 01:24 xDaunt wrote:
We do not feel ashamed about anything because we know that we have not done anything racist. And assholes don't think they're being assholes, they think it's everyone else being too sensitive. But the thing is, assholes don't get to decide if they're being assholes, everyone else does. It's not up to them. This is the same. Honestly this is one of the more fundamental parts of basic human interactions that a lot of people, particularly young men on the internet, don't seem to grasp. How people interpret your actions is not up to you. You may judge yourself by your intentions but nobody else is, they're just judging you by the shit you say and do. In this regard you're no different from the "nice guys" who bitch about how girls can't see how great they are etc. If the liberals could only see how not racist xDaunt is in his heart then maybe they'd stop getting so mad about him regurgitating and defending the 14 words. You can know you're not a racist if you like. But literally nobody cares what you know about yourself. You really don't have to be so quick to demonstrate how little you understand our point.
You didn't make a point, you simply demonstrated a lack of understanding about how human interaction works.
This is me trying to educate you on that so that you can be a better member of society and attempt to reduce the amount of conflict you create with the more socially well adjusted people you interact with.
So basically here is how it goes.
1) Every now and then you will do shit that makes other people think "wow, that guy is being a X". And sometimes, if you're lucky, they will tell you.
2) When they tell you your ego will immediately run a check and go "do I identify as a X?" But the thing is, nobody anywhere identifies as an X. So your ego's defence mechanisms will immediately kick in and you will think "I know I'm not an X, that guy is wrong, he's bad, and he's mean, he's really the X, not me, I'm good". Everyone has that defence mechanism, it's part of being human, you don't need to feel bad about it.
3) Try to catch yourself doing that when you do it. Recognize it for what it is, an automated response that does not include any kind of analysis, intelligence, or introspection. Dismiss it.
4) Think about the thing you did before the guy called you an X. Really think about it. Try to think about it from their perspective. You can still know that you're not an X, but ask yourself why you might have appeared to be an X from their perspective.
5) Recognize that ultimately what you think about yourself doesn't actually matter to anyone but you. Think of how you act as being similar to communicating, the common language is what matters. If you decide in your heart that the right word for something is one thing, but everyone else is using another word and nobody knows what your word means, you're going to have problems. How you communicate through your actions is no different. If what you're communicating to everyone around you is that you're an X then what your actions meant to you isn't actually important. You're acting like an X.
This isn't a thing where there are two sides, it's not a matter of opinion, it's a basic part of being around other people. The people who don't grasp this end up unsuccessful, lonely, and blaming everyone else for their own issues.
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On September 27 2017 01:24 RolleMcKnolle wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 01:14 Broetchenholer wrote:
If the resident..."conservative" posters in this thread feel ashamed by being called racists, maybe they should think about why they feel that way. If i am called a son of a bitch, i am laughing at the insult because i know my mother wasn't one. If i am called racist i am not acting ashamed except if i come to realize i actually was racist. So if you feel ashamed, maybe stop doing racist things? Like waving off racism because the slaves were freed. Or act pissed about black people raising the fist and then defend the free speech of neonazis with swastikas and doing Hitler salutes. But Danglars said people's live and career can be destroyed by that claim. So they really have to take every instance of being called racist as an impossible accusation. Since we are always just coming at them calling them racist. Nothing they do warrants this. It is just us lefties trying to destroy them and all they hold dear. I really want to reiterate one certain point: The claim of being racist is not what people default to, even though this is being claimed day in day out. People are being called racist/having racist tendencies after acting like it. The only people here I remember as being accused by GH of having a racist posting pattern are xDaunt and Danglars. And those two didnt get that as a default when they were arguing for conservative viewpoints, but after multiple long and invested discussions here. So I always wonder where the claim of "everyone being called racist" stems from? At least in this thread I see the accusation seldomly targeted at specific posters.
You can search through the posts by Kwark and GH. Both have said the equivalent of half the country/most of Republicans/most people who didn't vote Obama are racist/did so because of racism.
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Norway28559 Posts
On September 27 2017 01:45 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 01:25 RealityIsKing wrote:
I'm saying that it is wrong to go on campaign to demonize white people.
Then the response I get is "Hey you don't understand man!"
... It's a fair point. And you're absolutely right that the extreme rhetoric has reached the level where they basically ask whites to apologize for being born white and for the slavery of their ancestors.
How come you are seeing it this way? I'm as white as it gets, purebred norwegian all the way, supposedly traceable lineage to the first king of norway. I've never been even remotely close to thinking that anyone expects me to apologize for being born white. I see people arguing 'recognize that your whiteness is a privilege' and 'recognize that black people being disadvantaged in current day society is rooted in history, particularly slavery and colonialism, rather than the african american's inability to pull himself up by his own bootstraps'. But all the stuff you're arguing against, I've never encountered it. And I'm inclined to believe that I actually hang out in more progressive circles than you do, so I just don't get why you apparently see this all the time from the groups that I associate with, but that I, despite associating with them, never do. It doesn't make sense.
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United States41995 Posts
On September 27 2017 01:58 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 01:24 RolleMcKnolle wrote:On September 27 2017 01:14 Broetchenholer wrote:
If the resident..."conservative" posters in this thread feel ashamed by being called racists, maybe they should think about why they feel that way. If i am called a son of a bitch, i am laughing at the insult because i know my mother wasn't one. If i am called racist i am not acting ashamed except if i come to realize i actually was racist. So if you feel ashamed, maybe stop doing racist things? Like waving off racism because the slaves were freed. Or act pissed about black people raising the fist and then defend the free speech of neonazis with swastikas and doing Hitler salutes. But Danglars said people's live and career can be destroyed by that claim. So they really have to take every instance of being called racist as an impossible accusation. Since we are always just coming at them calling them racist. Nothing they do warrants this. It is just us lefties trying to destroy them and all they hold dear. I really want to reiterate one certain point: The claim of being racist is not what people default to, even though this is being claimed day in day out. People are being called racist/having racist tendencies after acting like it. The only people here I remember as being accused by GH of having a racist posting pattern are xDaunt and Danglars. And those two didnt get that as a default when they were arguing for conservative viewpoints, but after multiple long and invested discussions here. So I always wonder where the claim of "everyone being called racist" stems from? At least in this thread I see the accusation seldomly targeted at specific posters. You can search through the posts by Kwark and GH. Both have said the equivalent of half the country/most of Republicans/most people who didn't vote Obama are racist/did so because of racism.
I don't think you're really understanding what I said, this post certainly does not appear to represent an accurate understanding of my point. I could try explaining it again if you like but I've already explained it countless times and you're still not accurately representing it so I suspect the problem is user error on your part.
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On September 27 2017 01:55 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 01:53 Gorsameth wrote:On September 27 2017 01:45 xDaunt wrote:On September 27 2017 01:37 KwarK wrote:On September 27 2017 01:24 xDaunt wrote:
We do not feel ashamed about anything because we know that we have not done anything racist. And assholes don't think they're being assholes, they think it's everyone else being too sensitive. But the thing is, assholes don't get to decide if they're being assholes, everyone else does. It's not up to them. This is the same. Honestly this is one of the more fundamental parts of basic human interactions that a lot of people, particularly young men on the internet, don't seem to grasp. How people interpret your actions is not up to you. You may judge yourself by your intentions but nobody else is, they're just judging you by the shit you say and do. In this regard you're no different from the "nice guys" who bitch about how girls can't see how great they are etc. If the liberals could only see how not racist xDaunt is in his heart then maybe they'd stop getting so mad about him regurgitating and defending the 14 words. You can know you're not a racist if you like. But literally nobody cares what you know about yourself. You really don't have to be so quick to demonstrate how little you understand our point. Yes, xDaunt, the man who knows he is no racist and perfectly neutral in his view. Yet casually called black protesters vermin. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-mega-thread?page=5099#101965 You realize how stupid you look when you intentionally misrepresent other people's posts, right? Everyone knows what I said because it has been discussed to death. I made it very clear that I referred to the rioters and looters.
You could just say you fucked up and understand why people see that post as racist. That would have solved this problem a long time ago.
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On September 27 2017 01:55 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 01:53 Gorsameth wrote:On September 27 2017 01:45 xDaunt wrote:On September 27 2017 01:37 KwarK wrote:On September 27 2017 01:24 xDaunt wrote:
We do not feel ashamed about anything because we know that we have not done anything racist. And assholes don't think they're being assholes, they think it's everyone else being too sensitive. But the thing is, assholes don't get to decide if they're being assholes, everyone else does. It's not up to them. This is the same. Honestly this is one of the more fundamental parts of basic human interactions that a lot of people, particularly young men on the internet, don't seem to grasp. How people interpret your actions is not up to you. You may judge yourself by your intentions but nobody else is, they're just judging you by the shit you say and do. In this regard you're no different from the "nice guys" who bitch about how girls can't see how great they are etc. If the liberals could only see how not racist xDaunt is in his heart then maybe they'd stop getting so mad about him regurgitating and defending the 14 words. You can know you're not a racist if you like. But literally nobody cares what you know about yourself. You really don't have to be so quick to demonstrate how little you understand our point. Yes, xDaunt, the man who knows he is no racist and perfectly neutral in his view. Yet casually called black protesters vermin. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/383301-us-politics-mega-thread?page=5099#101965 You realize how stupid you look when you intentionally misrepresent other people's posts, right? Everyone knows what I said because it has been discussed to death. I made it very clear that I referred to the rioters and looters.
People can read the discussion that followed from that comment and draw their own conclusions. I just pointed to it for those who may be new, or forgot about that particular 'interesting' day in TL US politics discussion when you claimed to see the world through truly neutral non-racist eyes.
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United States41995 Posts
On September 27 2017 01:58 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2017 01:45 Danglars wrote:On September 27 2017 01:25 RealityIsKing wrote:
I'm saying that it is wrong to go on campaign to demonize white people.
Then the response I get is "Hey you don't understand man!"
... It's a fair point. And you're absolutely right that the extreme rhetoric has reached the level where they basically ask whites to apologize for being born white and for the slavery of their ancestors. How come you are seeing it this way? I'm as white as it gets, purebred norwegian all the way, supposedly traceable lineage to the first king of norway. I've never been even remotely close to thinking that anyone expects me to apologize for being born white. I see people arguing 'recognize that your whiteness is a privilege' and 'recognize that black people being disadvantaged in current day society is rooted in history, particularly slavery and colonialism, rather than the african american's inability to pull himself up by his own bootstraps'. But all the stuff you're arguing against, I've never encountered it. And I'm inclined to believe that I actually hang out in more progressive circles than you do, so I just don't get why you apparently see this all the time from the groups that I associate with, but that I, despite associating with them, never do. It doesn't make sense.
I suspect the issue is that the progressives you hang out with aren't made of straw.
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