In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Ben Carson nominated for housing secretary in Trump administration
Donald Trump has nominated former opponent Ben Carson as the secretary of housing and urban development, according to an announcement from the president-elect’s transition team.
In a statement on Monday, Trump said he was “thrilled to nominate” Carson, saying he “has a brilliant mind and is passionate about strengthening communities and families within those communities”.
“Ben shares my optimism about the future of our country and is part of ensuring that this is a presidency representing all Americans.”
Carson had previously taken himself out of the running to serve in Trump’s cabinet amid speculation that the retired neurosurgeon was being considered to head the Department of Health and Human Services. A Carson spokesperson said he did not feel he had the experience to run a federal agency and did not want to assume a role “that could cripple the presidency”.
The guy ran for president, but didn't think he had the experience to run a federal agency. You can't make this up.
For those who dont remember, during the Primary Carson stated he thought the Pyramids were used to store grain in ancient Egypt. Clearly he gets his world knowledge from Civilization.
On December 05 2016 22:10 kwizach wrote: What a circus:
Ben Carson nominated for housing secretary in Trump administration
Donald Trump has nominated former opponent Ben Carson as the secretary of housing and urban development, according to an announcement from the president-elect’s transition team.
In a statement on Monday, Trump said he was “thrilled to nominate” Carson, saying he “has a brilliant mind and is passionate about strengthening communities and families within those communities”.
“Ben shares my optimism about the future of our country and is part of ensuring that this is a presidency representing all Americans.”
Carson had previously taken himself out of the running to serve in Trump’s cabinet amid speculation that the retired neurosurgeon was being considered to head the Department of Health and Human Services. A Carson spokesperson said he did not feel he had the experience to run a federal agency and did not want to assume a role “that could cripple the presidency”.
The guy ran for president, but didn't think he had the experience to run a federal agency. You can't make this up.
Wasn't this from like two weeks ago? Anyway, in another non-contributory post: it's hilarious that he made his black friend the head of urban development even tho this person has no professional experience with such matters (as far as I know). It's just such a classic comedy move, like in that real documentary "The Office" with Micheal Scott, who kept calling his only black employee "urban". The fact that Carsons representative even said he wouldn't be fit for a position in the cabinet just icing on the cake. I suppose it is an anti-establishment pick in that regard though, haha.
The quote I highlighted is from a couple of weeks ago, but Trump announced he had chosen him as secretary of housing and urban development a few hours ago.
Besides, for the millions of poor people who are shelter-reliant on a government agency that will be headed by a man who has no idea what he is doing, I doubt this feels anything like a comedy.
On December 05 2016 22:53 farvacola wrote: Besides, for the millions of poor people who are shelter-reliant on a government agency that will be headed by a man who has no idea what he is doing, I doubt this feels anything like a comedy.
Ben Carson had a poor childhood in which he may have threatened a family member with physical violence. He was also once held up at a Popeyes. Or something. I don't remember the details, but to be fair neither does he. Clearly highly qualified.
On December 05 2016 22:10 kwizach wrote: What a circus:
Ben Carson nominated for housing secretary in Trump administration
Donald Trump has nominated former opponent Ben Carson as the secretary of housing and urban development, according to an announcement from the president-elect’s transition team.
In a statement on Monday, Trump said he was “thrilled to nominate” Carson, saying he “has a brilliant mind and is passionate about strengthening communities and families within those communities”.
“Ben shares my optimism about the future of our country and is part of ensuring that this is a presidency representing all Americans.”
Carson had previously taken himself out of the running to serve in Trump’s cabinet amid speculation that the retired neurosurgeon was being considered to head the Department of Health and Human Services. A Carson spokesperson said he did not feel he had the experience to run a federal agency and did not want to assume a role “that could cripple the presidency”.
The guy ran for president, but didn't think he had the experience to run a federal agency. You can't make this up.
For those who dont remember, during the Primary Carson stated he thought the Pyramids were used to store grain in ancient Egypt. Clearly he gets his world knowledge from Civilization.
I mean our president elect has 0 political experience, so carson's lack of experience for HUD is a non factor. Good intentions and on the job learning is what it comes down to with this administration.
On December 06 2016 02:02 biology]major wrote: I mean our president elect has 0 political experience, so carson's lack of experience for HUD is a non factor. Good intentions and on the job learning is what it comes down to with this administration.
historically when such things are done, it usually means more actual power goes to the long-serving bureaucrats iirc.
On December 04 2016 14:04 Slaughter wrote: The Chinese probably aren't really that offended, they know Trump is a know nothing. Just gives them an excuse to lodge a complaint.
I'm also kinda confused as to where this confidence in Trump's savy in FP comes from to consciously pull off such a thing that XDaunt attributes to him.
Sure enough....
Donald Trump’s protocol-breaking telephone call with Taiwan’s leader was an intentionally provocative move that establishes the incoming president as a break with the past, according to interviews with people involved in the planning.
The historic communication — the first between leaders of the United States and Taiwan since 1979 — was the product of months of quiet preparations and deliberations among Trump’s advisers about a new strategy for engagement with Taiwan that began even before he became the Republican presidential nominee, according to people involved in or briefed on the talks.
The call also reflects the views of hard-line advisers urging Trump to take a tough opening line with China, said others familiar with the months of discussion about Taiwan and China.
....
Several leading members of Trump’s transition team are considered hawkish on China and friendly toward Taiwan, including incoming chief of staff Reince Priebus.
Indeed, advisers explicitly warned last month that relations with China were in for a shake-up.
In an article for Foreign Policy magazine titled “Donald Trump’s Peace Through Strength Vision for the Asia-Pacific,” Peter Navarro and Alexander Gray described Taiwan as a “beacon of democracy in Asia” and complained that its treatment by the Obama administration was “egregious.”
The article, flagged to China experts as a significant policy blueprint, described Taiwan as “the most militarily vulnerable U.S. partner anywhere in the world” and called for a comprehensive arms deal to help it defend itself against China.
Friday’s phone call does not necessarily mean that will happen, but it does look like the first sign of a recalibration by a future Trump administration, experts say.
It was planned weeks ahead by staffers and Taiwan specialists on both sides, according to people familiar with the plans.
Immediately after Trump won the Nov. 8 election, his staffers compiled a list of foreign leaders with whom to arrange calls. “Very early on, Taiwan was on that list,” said Stephen Yates, a national security official during the presidency of George W. Bush and an expert on China and Taiwan. “Once the call was scheduled, I was told that there was a briefing for President-elect Trump. They knew that there would be reaction and potential blowback.”
Alex Huang, a spokesman for Tsai, told the Reuters news agency, “Of course both sides agreed ahead of time before making contact.”
....
At the Republican National Convention in July, Trump’s allies inserted a little-noticed phrase into the party’s platform reaffirming support for six key assurances to Taiwan made by President Ronald Reagan in 1982 — a priority for the Taiwan government. Also written into the 2016 platform was tougher language about China than had been in the party’s platform in its previous iteration four years ago.
“We salute the people of Taiwan, with whom we share the values of democracy, human rights, a free market economy, and the rule of law,” the platform said, adding that the current documents governing U.S.-Taiwan relations should stand but adding, “China’s behavior has negated the optimistic language of our last platform concerning our future relations with China.”
Yates, who helped write that portion of the platform, said Trump made clear at the time that he wanted to recalibrate relationships around the world and that the U.S. posture toward China was “a personal priority.”
None of this is a surprise to anyone who has been paying attention to what Trump has been saying since he began his campaign. All it takes is listening to what he says with an ounce of fairness. His campaign was staunchly tough on China, and he's actually doing what he campaigned on. Shocking, I know. Obama campaigned on "Hope and Change," and certainly failed to deliver the "Change." We're about to see what a real "Change" president looks like -- for better or for worse.
None of this is a surprise to anyone who has been paying attention to what Trump has been saying since he began his campaign
Yeah I'm pretty confused by the whole uh... confusion thing as well it seems totally in line with the parts of Trump's campaign that were most likely to actually happen.
On December 04 2016 14:04 Slaughter wrote: The Chinese probably aren't really that offended, they know Trump is a know nothing. Just gives them an excuse to lodge a complaint.
I'm also kinda confused as to where this confidence in Trump's savy in FP comes from to consciously pull off such a thing that XDaunt attributes to him.
Donald Trump’s protocol-breaking telephone call with Taiwan’s leader was an intentionally provocative move that establishes the incoming president as a break with the past, according to interviews with people involved in the planning.
The historic communication — the first between leaders of the United States and Taiwan since 1979 — was the product of months of quiet preparations and deliberations among Trump’s advisers about a new strategy for engagement with Taiwan that began even before he became the Republican presidential nominee, according to people involved in or briefed on the talks.
The call also reflects the views of hard-line advisers urging Trump to take a tough opening line with China, said others familiar with the months of discussion about Taiwan and China.
....
Several leading members of Trump’s transition team are considered hawkish on China and friendly toward Taiwan, including incoming chief of staff Reince Priebus.
Indeed, advisers explicitly warned last month that relations with China were in for a shake-up.
In an article for Foreign Policy magazine titled “Donald Trump’s Peace Through Strength Vision for the Asia-Pacific,” Peter Navarro and Alexander Gray described Taiwan as a “beacon of democracy in Asia” and complained that its treatment by the Obama administration was “egregious.”
The article, flagged to China experts as a significant policy blueprint, described Taiwan as “the most militarily vulnerable U.S. partner anywhere in the world” and called for a comprehensive arms deal to help it defend itself against China.
Friday’s phone call does not necessarily mean that will happen, but it does look like the first sign of a recalibration by a future Trump administration, experts say.
It was planned weeks ahead by staffers and Taiwan specialists on both sides, according to people familiar with the plans.
Immediately after Trump won the Nov. 8 election, his staffers compiled a list of foreign leaders with whom to arrange calls. “Very early on, Taiwan was on that list,” said Stephen Yates, a national security official during the presidency of George W. Bush and an expert on China and Taiwan. “Once the call was scheduled, I was told that there was a briefing for President-elect Trump. They knew that there would be reaction and potential blowback.”
Alex Huang, a spokesman for Tsai, told the Reuters news agency, “Of course both sides agreed ahead of time before making contact.”
....
At the Republican National Convention in July, Trump’s allies inserted a little-noticed phrase into the party’s platform reaffirming support for six key assurances to Taiwan made by President Ronald Reagan in 1982 — a priority for the Taiwan government. Also written into the 2016 platform was tougher language about China than had been in the party’s platform in its previous iteration four years ago.
“We salute the people of Taiwan, with whom we share the values of democracy, human rights, a free market economy, and the rule of law,” the platform said, adding that the current documents governing U.S.-Taiwan relations should stand but adding, “China’s behavior has negated the optimistic language of our last platform concerning our future relations with China.”
Yates, who helped write that portion of the platform, said Trump made clear at the time that he wanted to recalibrate relationships around the world and that the U.S. posture toward China was “a personal priority.”
None of this is a surprise to anyone who has been paying attention to what Trump has been saying since he began his campaign. All it takes is listening to what he says with an ounce of fairness. His campaign was staunchly tough on China, and he's actually doing what he campaigned on. Shocking, I know. Obama campaigned on "Hope and Change," and certainly failed to deliver the "Change." We're about to see what a real "Change" president looks like -- for better or for worse.
If it's true, I'd say that's a notch up in the probability of a bigger South China Sea conflict.
i dont mind too much if the US takes a stronger stance on taiwan especially if its a well thought-out shift in position. my concern is that for all the "this was totally planned", the fumbling response to criticism suggests that it really isn't. most of my family is in taiwan, so this is quite a personal issue. i would prefer any shift in stance have some element that would deter any antagonistic moves on the part of china.
and no, the taiwanese president doesn't just call trump out of the blue. there was some element of discussion before the call was placed, though it seems there wasn't much thought. the status quo was for increasing economic interdependence and gradually improving political relations, which was pretty good in my book.
I'm hoping it causes a bigger insight into the way the US deals arms all across the world (see Trump's original tweet about selling arms to a nation he's not supposed to talk to on the phone), but that's less likely than Clinton winning the recount.
Well that and the whole potential conflict on interest thing.
On a recount-related note, sitting North Carolina governor Pat McCrory has conceded to Democratic challenger Roy Cooper.
It's truly unfortunate the recount ended prematurely I think. If I was a little more cynical I would believe McCrory conceded now to preserve the fabled "evil voter fraud" boogeyman for his fellows to use in future elections instead of letting it be put to rest.
On the plus side, the sitting governor de facto controls the county boards of election from what I understand, so the inane voter suppression efforts dedicated to urban voters with respect to early voting and polling places are unlikely to make a return for a few years.
Interesting to hear it claimed that the whole thing was intentional; or at least parts of it were.
Still not entirely convinced of that.
If there's to be a change in policy on something that's going to involve lots of public action I prefer it to be more clearly announced and the new strategy articulated more specifically. There's certainly plenty of room for alternate policies; but I'd like to know what the actual plan is, and what the plausible scenarios are for it. If the plan requires secrecy, then I suppose it's necessary to not reveal; though it's always a bit of a challenge in a democracy using such plans. But I'll at least expect a thorough and accurate assessment that will be declassified later to explain what the plan and scenarios was.
I'm still not seeing any clear gain from this; unless the goal is to goad china into starting the trade war so you can have the trade war without being seen as the instigator.
xdaunt -> to me, it seems very rude of you to insist that so many don't even give trump an ounce of fairness; plenty have given him at least that much fairness imho.
I gave Trump a chance. I liked his acceptance speech, election night, and thought, "Who knows?" It lasted about 24 hours, though.
Appointing a climate-change denier to lead the EPA was basically the first thing Trump did. "Drain the swamp!" Brought to you by Exxon-Mobil. It might as well be George Dubya Reagan the Fourth in that office. Good people everywhere should fight and be afraid.
The only difference from Reagan/Bush is a foreign policy run by admitted amateurs that seems to want to treat China the way we've treated Russia, and treat Russia the way we've treated China, which I find both wrong and stupid for a wide variety of reasons.
EPT
