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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-10 23:41:40
November 10 2016 23:38 GMT
#123741
I'll give them a few months and see if they start to appreciate why they lost what was supposed to be an easy, clean sweep of the election. First they will blame Sanders, then racists, then the Russians, then lazy millennials, then old people who should just die off already, and then finally maybe they will learn some self-awareness.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
MyLovelyLurker
Profile Joined April 2007
France756 Posts
November 10 2016 23:41 GMT
#123742
On November 11 2016 08:29 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2016 08:19 MyLovelyLurker wrote:
On November 11 2016 08:15 LegalLord wrote:
Silicon Valley has basically all the faults of a "blind idiot" approach to management, including the assumption that more hours means more productivity. They basically believe that real people write code and management and other administrative work of value is "what stupid people do." And guess who ends up being in management with that situation?


This looks more like a caricatural, damning indictment of Dilbert's mid-manager, than anything else. I'm not saying bring back the Peters principle guys, just that the government could use more talented figures like Thiel, Musk, or Zuckerberg, given their background as overachievers, rather than the Gingriches and Giulianis of this world.

Don't give them more credit than they are due. At the end of the day they are just a class of moneyed elite who found a fantastic source of profit and used it to become wealthy. They may be more in tune with software design than the average bear but they're not much different from hiring someone like a Goldman Sachs director to your cabinet.

Also, one of those guys has yet to prove that his many wide ranging ventures aren't just a scam. There's that.


I don't worship them, and things were easier back in 1999, but I still think they were able enough to build a business from the ground up. That's a huge difference from the millions of dudes with a GitHub account. Or from investment bankers with an established client portfolio. Or a realtor with a 'small loan' from their father.

Whether you like it or not, Valley elites and Goldman partners tend to be extremely driven and competent people. You don't thrive in such competitive environments if you don't bring results. Politics only dictate the last 25% of success or so. The more competent people in office, the better. I'm not gonna buy that you need to be Joe the Cable Guy in order to deserve a seat. That kind of thinking was all the rage during the Sarkozy and Berlusconi administrations, and we've seen how damaging it is to a country.



"I just say, it doesn't matter win or lose, I just love Starcraft 2, I love this game, I love this stage, just play like in practice" - TIME/Oliveira
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
November 10 2016 23:45 GMT
#123743
On November 11 2016 08:41 MyLovelyLurker wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2016 08:29 LegalLord wrote:
On November 11 2016 08:19 MyLovelyLurker wrote:
On November 11 2016 08:15 LegalLord wrote:
Silicon Valley has basically all the faults of a "blind idiot" approach to management, including the assumption that more hours means more productivity. They basically believe that real people write code and management and other administrative work of value is "what stupid people do." And guess who ends up being in management with that situation?


This looks more like a caricatural, damning indictment of Dilbert's mid-manager, than anything else. I'm not saying bring back the Peters principle guys, just that the government could use more talented figures like Thiel, Musk, or Zuckerberg, given their background as overachievers, rather than the Gingriches and Giulianis of this world.

Don't give them more credit than they are due. At the end of the day they are just a class of moneyed elite who found a fantastic source of profit and used it to become wealthy. They may be more in tune with software design than the average bear but they're not much different from hiring someone like a Goldman Sachs director to your cabinet.

Also, one of those guys has yet to prove that his many wide ranging ventures aren't just a scam. There's that.


I don't worship them, and things were easier back in 1999, but I still think they were able enough to build a business from the ground up. That's a huge difference from the millions of dudes with a GitHub account. Or from investment bankers with an established client portfolio. Or a realtor with a 'small loan' from their father.

Whether you like it or not, Valley elites and Goldman partners tend to be extremely driven and competent people. You don't thrive in such competitive environments if you don't bring results. Politics only dictate the last 25% of success or so. The more competent people in office, the better. I'm not gonna buy that you need to be Joe the Cable Guy in order to deserve a seat. That kind of thinking was all the rage during the Sarkozy and Berlusconi administrations, and we've seen how damaging it is to a country.

There is a place for moneyed SV elites, the same way there is a place for GS directors, in a presidential cabinet. But see them for who they are. They aren't some dreamer geniuses to revere, they are just people who made money off of software products.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-10 23:48:17
November 10 2016 23:47 GMT
#123744
On November 11 2016 08:38 LegalLord wrote:
I'll give them a few months and see if they start to appreciate why they lost what was supposed to be an easy, clean sweep of the election. First they will blame Sanders, then racists, then the Russians, then lazy millennials, then old people who should just die off already, and then finally maybe they will learn some self-awareness.


Except a lot of the protesters are millennials and Sanders supports...

"Don't categorize all Trump supporters as racists and sexists, but every non-Trump supporter is a whiny Hillary supporter".

Logo
MasterCynical
Profile Joined September 2012
505 Posts
November 10 2016 23:52 GMT
#123745
wtf did Obama tell Trump? He looks so shaken.
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
November 10 2016 23:53 GMT
#123746
On November 11 2016 08:33 Danglars wrote:
Another day of protests and some severe freeway slowdown. These people need to get over themselves. Throwing fits is exactly how you remind people that their Trump vote was absolutely necessary.


How so? Do you think people wouldn't riot if Trump won? It doesn't make anymore necessary. I have given this a lot of thought as to the outcome. From my understanding everyone wants more equal opportunity. It remains to be seen that Trump will deliver on that more so than Hilary. A lot of people are under the impression that the richer will get richer and the poorer will get poorer regardless.

Make America Great Again? That is a long ways off.
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-10 23:56:55
November 10 2016 23:53 GMT
#123747
On November 11 2016 08:52 MasterCynical wrote:
wtf did Obama tell Trump? He looks so shaken.


I assume Probably normal stuff, but it suddenly dawned on Trump that he would have to do actual hard work and make actual decisions.
Logo
MyLovelyLurker
Profile Joined April 2007
France756 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-11 00:05:17
November 11 2016 00:02 GMT
#123748
On November 11 2016 08:45 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2016 08:41 MyLovelyLurker wrote:
On November 11 2016 08:29 LegalLord wrote:
On November 11 2016 08:19 MyLovelyLurker wrote:
On November 11 2016 08:15 LegalLord wrote:
Silicon Valley has basically all the faults of a "blind idiot" approach to management, including the assumption that more hours means more productivity. They basically believe that real people write code and management and other administrative work of value is "what stupid people do." And guess who ends up being in management with that situation?


This looks more like a caricatural, damning indictment of Dilbert's mid-manager, than anything else. I'm not saying bring back the Peters principle guys, just that the government could use more talented figures like Thiel, Musk, or Zuckerberg, given their background as overachievers, rather than the Gingriches and Giulianis of this world.

Don't give them more credit than they are due. At the end of the day they are just a class of moneyed elite who found a fantastic source of profit and used it to become wealthy. They may be more in tune with software design than the average bear but they're not much different from hiring someone like a Goldman Sachs director to your cabinet.

Also, one of those guys has yet to prove that his many wide ranging ventures aren't just a scam. There's that.


I don't worship them, and things were easier back in 1999, but I still think they were able enough to build a business from the ground up. That's a huge difference from the millions of dudes with a GitHub account. Or from investment bankers with an established client portfolio. Or a realtor with a 'small loan' from their father.

Whether you like it or not, Valley elites and Goldman partners tend to be extremely driven and competent people. You don't thrive in such competitive environments if you don't bring results. Politics only dictate the last 25% of success or so. The more competent people in office, the better. I'm not gonna buy that you need to be Joe the Cable Guy in order to deserve a seat. That kind of thinking was all the rage during the Sarkozy and Berlusconi administrations, and we've seen how damaging it is to a country.

There is a place for moneyed SV elites, the same way there is a place for GS directors, in a presidential cabinet. But see them for who they are. They aren't some dreamer geniuses to revere, they are just people who made money off of software products.


Agreed. No worship necessary. Just a few more engineers and businesspeople in Washington wouldn't hurt and, in fact, would favour better outcomes by discouraging groupthink.

Trump himself seems to have bet on this with a winning wager on data scientists nudging social media :


'To outsiders, the Trump campaign often appears to be powered by little more than the candidate’s impulses and Twitter feed. But after Trump locked down the GOP nomination by winning Indiana’s primary, Kushner tapped Parscale, a political novice who built web pages for the Trump family’s business and charities, to begin an ambitious digital operation fashioned around a database they named Project Alamo. With Trump atop the GOP ticket, Kushner was eager to grow fast. “When we won the nomination, we decided we were going to do digital fundraising and really ramp this thing up to the next level,” says a senior official. Kushner, this official continued, “reached out to some Silicon Valley people who are kind of covert Trump fans and experts in digital marketing. They taught us about scaling. There’s really not that much of a difference between politics and regular marketing.”

When Bannon joined the campaign in August, Project Alamo’s data began shaping even more of Trump’s political and travel strategy—and especially his fundraising. Trump himself was an avid pupil. Parscale would sit with him on the plane to share the latest data on his mushrooming audience and the $230 million they’ve funneled into his campaign coffers. Today, housed across from a La-Z-Boy Furniture Gallery along Interstate 410 in San Antonio, the digital nerve center of Trump’s operation encompasses more than 100 people, from European data scientists to gun-toting elderly call-center volunteers. They labor in offices lined with Trump iconography and Trump-focused inspirational quotes from Sheriff Joe Arpaio and evangelical leader Jerry Falwell Jr. Until now, Trump has kept this operation hidden from public view. But he granted Bloomberg Businessweek exclusive access to the people, the strategy, the ads, and a large part of the data that brought him to this point and will determine how the final two weeks of the campaign unfold.'

'(...) To compensate for this, Trump’s campaign has devised another strategy, which, not surprisingly, is negative. Instead of expanding the electorate, Bannon and his team are trying to shrink it. “We have three major voter suppression operations under way,” says a senior official. They’re aimed at three groups Clinton needs to win overwhelmingly: idealistic white liberals, young women, and African Americans. Trump’s invocation at the debate of Clinton’s WikiLeaks e-mails and support for the Trans-Pacific Partnership was designed to turn off Sanders supporters. The parade of women who say they were sexually assaulted by Bill Clinton and harassed or threatened by Hillary is meant to undermine her appeal to young women. And her 1996 suggestion that some African American males are “super predators” is the basis of a below-the-radar effort to discourage infrequent black voters from showing up at the polls—particularly in Florida.

On Oct. 24, Trump’s team began placing spots on select African American radio stations. In San Antonio, a young staffer showed off a South Park-style animation he’d created of Clinton delivering the “super predator” line (using audio from her original 1996 sound bite), as cartoon text popped up around her: “Hillary Thinks African Americans are Super Predators.” The animation will be delivered to certain African American voters through Facebook “dark posts”—nonpublic posts whose viewership the campaign controls so that, as Parscale puts it, “only the people we want to see it, see it.” The aim is to depress Clinton’s vote total. “We know because we’ve modeled this,” says the official. “It will dramatically affect her ability to turn these people out.”'


"I just say, it doesn't matter win or lose, I just love Starcraft 2, I love this game, I love this stage, just play like in practice" - TIME/Oliveira
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
November 11 2016 00:03 GMT
#123749
On November 11 2016 08:33 Howie_Dewitt wrote:
My school is disgusting. I'm by no means a trump supporter or happy with the results of the election, but this is pathetic.
Show nested quote +
Students,
Please feel welcome to come down to the Counseling Center at anytime today to speak to a counselor if you need some support as you process the election results.

If your assigned counselor is unavilable, please feel free to see any other counselor.

All the conservative kids at my school are shunned if they try to speak out, so I can never truly understand their point of view. I can usually identify kids who are conservative by their silence and stony faces during discussions, which gave a tendency to become circles of "fuck Republicans."


Kids needing support to process election results doesn't seem healthy.

Wonder if there's a way to measure the ammount of average emotional attachment people have to their candidate and look at how that's changed over time.
Bora Pain minha porra!
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
November 11 2016 00:10 GMT
#123750
On November 11 2016 08:52 MasterCynical wrote:
wtf did Obama tell Trump? He looks so shaken.


There is a reason that presidents age 30 years in 4-8 years. This will be by far the most work Trump has ever had to do.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
November 11 2016 00:10 GMT
#123751
The emotional attachment you are describing is due to demonizing candidates for the 4 years until the election. This time it was no secret that Hillary would be the nominee, so it was easy to figure out whose name to drag through the mud for 4 years. If there weren't a thousand republicans in their primary the same would have happened to them, as it did once it was Trump.
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
November 11 2016 00:19 GMT
#123752
On November 11 2016 09:10 Kickstart wrote:
The emotional attachment you are describing is due to demonizing candidates for the 4 years until the election. This time it was no secret that Hillary would be the nominee, so it was easy to figure out whose name to drag through the mud for 4 years. If there weren't a thousand republicans in their primary the same would have happened to them, as it did once it was Trump.


So, kids are emotionally attached to Hillary because she's been demonized for the 4 years until election?
Bora Pain minha porra!
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
November 11 2016 00:20 GMT
#123753
On November 11 2016 09:19 Sbrubbles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2016 09:10 Kickstart wrote:
The emotional attachment you are describing is due to demonizing candidates for the 4 years until the election. This time it was no secret that Hillary would be the nominee, so it was easy to figure out whose name to drag through the mud for 4 years. If there weren't a thousand republicans in their primary the same would have happened to them, as it did once it was Trump.


So, kids are emotionally attached to Hillary because she's been demonized for the 4 years until election?

I think he means that they are taught that Trump is Hitler Plus so they have to stand by Hillary if they want any chance at a good life.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44271 Posts
November 11 2016 00:21 GMT
#123754
On November 11 2016 08:33 Howie_Dewitt wrote:
My school is disgusting. I'm by no means a trump supporter or happy with the results of the election, but this is pathetic.
Show nested quote +
Students,
Please feel welcome to come down to the Counseling Center at anytime today to speak to a counselor if you need some support as you process the election results.

If your assigned counselor is unavilable, please feel free to see any other counselor.

All the conservative kids at my school are shunned if they try to speak out, so I can never truly understand their point of view. I can usually identify kids who are conservative by their silence and stony faces during discussions, which gave a tendency to become circles of "fuck Republicans."


In my (all-girls) high school that I teach at, we're having the very real problem with how to manage student outcry. The vast majority of our students are progressive, wanted Hillary to win, and are dealing with the reality that their rights as young women and as minorities (Hispanic, black, Muslim, LGBT, etc.) are absolutely gone for the next 4 years. Poof. They're absolutely terrified that Trump and the Republican government will do everything that they promise they'll do. It's justified terror, knowing that they're going to be far less safe and that their rights will be reset in the incoming years.

This is, of course, conflicting with the 1/4 (ish) of the student body who are more conservative, and are having their feelings hurt by being called out for their political beliefs.

It's a very hard situation for the educators too, to want to make sure that students feelings aren't hurt by other students, but at the same time recognizing the fact that the legitimate safety and rights of our students are valued moreso than the mere comfort of keeping a friendship. Friendships have ended over far more superficial things than this election, and considering I work in a leading all-girls school where empowering them and building confidence and leadership skills is imperative, this election outcome has been a slap in the face to the students.

It kills me to see young adults/ young women having to deal with such a hardship already, and we're frantically looking for ways to make any dialogues as productive and well-informed and level-headed as possible, but it's understandably tough in a single-sex school that has been universally disenfranchised by the president-elect and half the country. Considering how much persecution all of the minorities have received before and during Trump's campaign (and the promises that Trump has made to make things worse), it's not at all surprising that being a Trump supporter in a sea of the disenfranchised is going to have some serious pushback.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
November 11 2016 00:22 GMT
#123755
On November 11 2016 09:19 Sbrubbles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2016 09:10 Kickstart wrote:
The emotional attachment you are describing is due to demonizing candidates for the 4 years until the election. This time it was no secret that Hillary would be the nominee, so it was easy to figure out whose name to drag through the mud for 4 years. If there weren't a thousand republicans in their primary the same would have happened to them, as it did once it was Trump.


So, kids are emotionally attached to Hillary because she's been demonized for the 4 years until election?


No, they are emotionally attached because Trump has been sold as a racist/bigot/sexist/clown/etc. In the same way there are large groups that think similar things about Clinton.

When you think you are voting against someone who is literally evil and everything wrong with the country, it is no surprise that you are attached to the person you are supporting and that you are shocked/ somewhat distressed when the person who you thought was Hitler won.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 11 2016 00:22 GMT
#123756
On November 11 2016 08:53 StarStruck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2016 08:33 Danglars wrote:
Another day of protests and some severe freeway slowdown. These people need to get over themselves. Throwing fits is exactly how you remind people that their Trump vote was absolutely necessary.


How so? Do you think people wouldn't riot if Trump won? It doesn't make anymore necessary. I have given this a lot of thought as to the outcome. From my understanding everyone wants more equal opportunity. It remains to be seen that Trump will deliver on that more so than Hilary. A lot of people are under the impression that the richer will get richer and the poorer will get poorer regardless.

Make America Great Again? That is a long ways off.

Chanting 'not my president' and acting like a bunch of spoiled children? Certainly not and certainly not to the extent the skittish media predicted violence. And all these media stories before the election were centered on preaching the peaceful transfer of power, and now they are all strangely silent when it's protestors from the left rioting and setting fires and disrupting traffic. You better believe the mainstream media would be all over the dangerous fascism of Trump had the sides been switched. Absolutely shameless!
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-11-11 00:26:01
November 11 2016 00:25 GMT
#123757
This is purely speculation on your part. You have no idea if there would be protests if Trump lost, nor how violent or non-violent they would be.
Regardless, they have the right to assemble and protest, and I would argue it is a sign of a healthy democracy. You should be more worried whenever 50% of the country didn't vote for the candidate and after he wins there were no protests~
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44271 Posts
November 11 2016 00:26 GMT
#123758
On November 11 2016 09:19 Sbrubbles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2016 09:10 Kickstart wrote:
The emotional attachment you are describing is due to demonizing candidates for the 4 years until the election. This time it was no secret that Hillary would be the nominee, so it was easy to figure out whose name to drag through the mud for 4 years. If there weren't a thousand republicans in their primary the same would have happened to them, as it did once it was Trump.


So, kids are emotionally attached to Hillary because she's been demonized for the 4 years until election?


It's more like the fact that young adults (and older adults, for that matter) who identify with pretty much any of the persecuted minorities are deathly afraid of their situation over the next four years, and are having trouble understanding why people would vote to disenfranchise them.

It's the jeopardized rights, safety, and well-being of those minorities vs. the mere discomfort felt by conservatives getting backlash. It's very hard to empathize with conservatives getting their feelings hurt when other people are worried for their actual lives.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
November 11 2016 00:26 GMT
#123759
So have the markets decided whether or not they are ok with a Trump presidency?
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
November 11 2016 00:28 GMT
#123760
On November 11 2016 09:22 Kickstart wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 11 2016 09:19 Sbrubbles wrote:
On November 11 2016 09:10 Kickstart wrote:
The emotional attachment you are describing is due to demonizing candidates for the 4 years until the election. This time it was no secret that Hillary would be the nominee, so it was easy to figure out whose name to drag through the mud for 4 years. If there weren't a thousand republicans in their primary the same would have happened to them, as it did once it was Trump.


So, kids are emotionally attached to Hillary because she's been demonized for the 4 years until election?


No, they are emotionally attached because Trump has been sold as a racist/bigot/sexist/clown/etc. In the same way there are large groups that think similar things about Clinton.

When you think you are voting against someone who is literally evil and everything wrong with the country, it is no surprise that you are attached to the person you are supporting and that you are shocked/ somewhat distressed when the person who you thought was Hitler won.


I see, emotional attachment more against Trump than for Hillary.
Bora Pain minha porra!
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