EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 5870
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
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Sermokala
United States14211 Posts
On November 03 2016 00:10 KwarK wrote: You genuinely don't see a connection between trying to stop Hillary getting elected and trying to help Trump get elected? I'm sorry if I'm pushing you too hard on this, I'm just trying to work out where I'm losing you in the chain of logic. I'm saying I don't see how there is a genuine conspiracy between Trump and russia to get Trump elected. Russia is useing wikileaks to effect the election I understand but upgrading petty meddling into a full blown conspiracy is a step I'm seeing people taking just beacuse its trump. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6343 Posts
On November 03 2016 00:10 zlefin wrote: the conspiracy theory pejorative generally applies to stuff tha'ts super wacko and out there. while I agree there are many plausible and more likely alternative explanations; them wanting trump in power isn't so out there as to be conspiracy theory territory. also, there doesn't need to be coordination for russia to be trying to get trump elected. But saying Russia is behind the hacks means admitting the Russians have everything they would need to turn Clinton into a puppet. The juiciest stuff is just stored away somewhere so they will always have power over her. Pushing Trump along with little leaks makes sense if they already have Clinton in their pocket, so Trump would be thankful and friendly if Clinton fucks it up. Its win-win if Russia is behind the leaks. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On November 03 2016 00:15 Buckyman wrote: Why are we concerned about Drumpf's ties to Russia but not Clinton's ties to Russia? Because Clinton's position on Russia is quite different form Trumps on Russia, Again we can go the alternative reality route where both are liars so really Clinton says Russia = bad means she will be Russia's Puppet. And the public Putin admirer is just a snake in the grass waiting to pounce the second Putin lets his guard down. Something something 4D chess. Trump is a genius. | ||
KwarK
United States44391 Posts
On November 03 2016 00:15 Sermokala wrote: I'm saying I don't see how there is a genuine conspiracy between Trump and russia to get Trump elected. Russia is useing wikileaks to effect the election I understand but upgrading petty meddling into a full blown conspiracy is a step I'm seeing people taking just beacuse its trump. So you're happy with 1) Russia is trying to get Trump elected and 2) Trump has offered to end sanctions and recognize Crimea before negotiations even start You're just unhappy with the link between the two? If we might quickly return to the original contention with zeo which was that Putin desperately wants a Clinton victory so he can blackmail her, are you happy with the "but Putin is openly doing everything he can to get Trump elected" objection? If so we're on the same page. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On November 03 2016 00:15 Buckyman wrote: Why are we concerned about Trump's ties to Russia but not Clinton's ties to Russia? we can read her extensive writing and look at policy speeches to understand her foreign policy positions. also wiki-hillary talks about it a lot. her administration would be run by foreign policy professionals. btw, for the fearmongers about war here, opposition to putin does not mean military escalation or war with russia. it may mean beefing up some defensive positions so that the cost would be prohibitive for russia to try anything to upset the situation, but that is a defensive position directly in response to how putin has behaved and various linestepping along the way. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 03 2016 00:15 Buckyman wrote: Why are we concerned about Trump's ties to Russia but not Clinton's ties to Russia? Has Clinton burned every bank in the US so hard that none of them will lend to her and she had to go outside the country to investment, specifically to Russia? Have they invested directly into the her family business that is not a charity? Because that is the relationship between Trump and Russia. And he won’t be putting his business in a blind trust, it will be run by his children. So basically he will be running it while President. | ||
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
On November 02 2016 23:56 Plansix wrote: Is it if the US intelligence agencies have said they believe it is happening? I think that moves it out of “things believed by people wearing tinfoil hats.” The conspiracy part comes from thinking Donald has an active role in this, he isn't responsible for Russia's hacks anymore than some crazy white nationalist that supports him. Furthermore we don't know what Russia's motivations are. Just because he says "would it be so bad if we got along with Russia" doesn't mean he's leaking secrets to them. | ||
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KwarK
United States44391 Posts
On November 03 2016 00:20 biology]major wrote: The conspiracy part comes from thinking Donald has an active role in this, he isn't responsible for Russia's hacks anymore than some crazy white nationalist that supports him. Furthermore we don't know what Russia's motivations are. Just because he says "would it be so bad if we got along with Russia" doesn't mean he's leaking s crest to them. We started on this because zeo claimed that Putin wanted Clinton to win. The point of raising the Russia backed hacking and selective attacks on Clinton was to refute that. | ||
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
On November 03 2016 00:21 KwarK wrote: We started on this because zeo claimed that Putin wanted Clinton to win. The point of raising the Russia backed hacking and selective attacks on Clinton was to refute that. Ah okay, carry on | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 03 2016 00:20 biology]major wrote: The conspiracy part comes from thinking Donald has an active role in this, he isn't responsible for Russia's hacks anymore than some crazy white nationalist that supports him. Furthermore we don't know what Russia's motivations are. Just because he says "would it be so bad if we got along with Russia" doesn't mean he's leaking secrets to them. We also don’t know what is in this new batch of Clinton emails or if it is anything worth while, yet that does not stop people from speculating. If you are going to speculate on emailgate, then you have to accept the speculation on Trump’s connections to Russia, which are substantial. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
On November 03 2016 00:27 xDaunt wrote: Ooof, now Wikileaks is dropping emails that potentially show collusion between the Clinton Campaign and the DoJ. Was anyone surprised? | ||
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IgnE
United States7684 Posts
On November 02 2016 11:33 oneofthem wrote: one of the more serious negative reports on hrc from my perspective is from sarah chayes who worked under general mccrystal in afghanistan. she thought hrc was slow to act on corrosive corruption in the afghan govt and it undermined the mission. overly militarized approach and too much deference to the generals. but then again, admiral mullen was vetted as vp and hrc has a better understanding of how critical the international fight against corruption is for literally everything. this stuff is something the left could do real work on, a genuine 99.9% vs 0.1% issue. lol thx to wikileaks u can see she understands the issue now and mullen has a respected input https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/19058 you really are the younger, male version of hillary. now we just need to find the email where she confesses to huma that she has a crush on bloomberg and wants to rule the world with him at her side | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
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IgnE
United States7684 Posts
On November 02 2016 12:18 xDaunt wrote: Quick, somewhat OT, question for y'all: what's the likelihood that the residential real estate market shits itself on a national level over the next six-twelve months, and does the victory of Trump or Hillary alter that likelihood? terrible time to buy a house dauntless. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
Of course not. Here's what no one is really talking about yet. The FBI story is overshadowing the Wikileaks stuff in the news, but I can't help but think that the liberal activist base is paying attention to what Wikileaks is dropping and they must be simply horrified by what the Democratic party has become. There are going to be huge repercussions from this in the near future. | ||
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KwarK
United States44391 Posts
On November 03 2016 00:33 xDaunt wrote: Of course not. Here's what no one is really talking about yet. The FBI story is overshadowing the Wikileaks stuff in the news, but I can't help but think that the liberal activist base is paying attention to what Wikileaks is dropping and they must be simply horrified by what the Democratic party has become. There are going to be huge repercussions from this in the near future. Beating Trump may serve as a rallying point that distracts from that. Why be introspective when you can be partisan, after all. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On November 03 2016 00:30 IgnE wrote: you really are the younger, male version of hillary. now we just need to find the email where she confesses to huma that she has a crush on bloomberg and wants to rule the world with him at her side hm? not really. what is your alternative tho? | ||
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Sermokala
United States14211 Posts
pretty sure its been covered that RT is just another Russian intelligence agency. | ||
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