In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Appeals to hypocrisy won't stop the international and national headlines condemning Trump for his ever-so-meme-able "I'll Keep You in Suspense, Okay?" Trump flubbed his only possible chance to come back with that nonsense.
Yes, because the people writing those headlines don't have the self-awareness to explain the difference even to themselves before coming up with something like "appeal to hypocrisy" as you did.
Are you being real right now? Bush also refused by that logic. Florida went to Bush by 500 votes FIVE HUNDRED. Of course neither person was going to concede until the recount was done. You'd have to be insane to throw in the towel if things are that close until the final ruling was in. If Florida went to Gore by 500 votes and Bush wanted to wait for the final tally to give up no sane person would hold that against him either. But once it was all said and done Gore conceded the election like a man. Something Donald has no idea how to do. Neither Gore nor Bush said things were rigged or cried like a loser months before the election.
Okay, good, Bush also refused, so we can count him as another example - did you think I was attacking Al Gore or something? The real possibility of this election ending up in court is one of the reasons people on both sides of the aisle chastised Ruth Bader Ginsburg's comments.
Appeals to hypocrisy won't stop the international and national headlines condemning Trump for his ever-so-meme-able "I'll Keep You in Suspense, Okay?" Trump flubbed his only possible chance to come back with that nonsense.
Yes, because the people writing those headlines don't have the self-awareness to explain the difference even to themselves before coming up with something like "appeal to hypocrisy" as you did.
Are you being real right now? Bush also refused by that logic. Florida went to Bush by 500 votes FIVE HUNDRED. Of course neither person was going to concede until the recount was done. You'd have to be insane to throw in the towel if things are that close until the final ruling was in. If Florida went to Gore by 500 votes and Bush wanted to wait for the final tally to give up no sane person would hold that against him either. But once it was all said and done Gore conceded the election like a man. Something Donald has no idea how to do. Neither Gore nor Bush said things were rigged or cried like a loser months before the election.
Okay, good, Bush also refused, so we can count him as another example - did you think I was attacking Al Gore or something? The real possibility of this election ending up in court is one of the reasons people on both sides of the aisle chastised Ruth Bader Ginsburg's comments.
There's no possible way this ends up in courts if Donald is an adult when he gets slaughtered. But he's a manchild of unprecedented levels and a clear and present threat to our democracy. 2000 has zero parallels to this year.
"He has no consistency about him. He says whatever comes into his head at the moment. He really has an ego. ... How has he gotten away with not turning over his tax returns? The press seems to be very gentle with him on that."
Based.
I'd be mad but I can't be mad about someone speaking honestly.
Appeals to hypocrisy won't stop the international and national headlines condemning Trump for his ever-so-meme-able "I'll Keep You in Suspense, Okay?" Trump flubbed his only possible chance to come back with that nonsense.
Yes, because the people writing those headlines don't have the self-awareness to explain the difference even to themselves before coming up with something like "appeal to hypocrisy" as you did.
Are you being real right now? Bush also refused by that logic. Florida went to Bush by 500 votes FIVE HUNDRED. Of course neither person was going to concede until the recount was done. You'd have to be insane to throw in the towel if things are that close until the final ruling was in. If Florida went to Gore by 500 votes and Bush wanted to wait for the final tally to give up no sane person would hold that against him either. But once it was all said and done Gore conceded the election like a man. Something Donald has no idea how to do. Neither Gore nor Bush said things were rigged or cried like a loser months before the election.
Okay, good, Bush also refused, so we can count him as another example - did you think I was attacking Al Gore or something? The real possibility of this election ending up in court is one of the reasons people on both sides of the aisle chastised Ruth Bader Ginsburg's comments.
There's no possible way this ends up in courts if Donald is an adult when he gets slaughtered. But he's a manchild of unprecedented levels and a clear and present threat to our democracy. 2000 has zero parallels to this year.
If you have an argument for why he's a "clear and present threat" to democracy, that would be a much more interesting point to witness than you calling the nominee a manchild and saying that he cries like a loser.
Because all I see is poll flogging and a media that's found yet another story to concoct, whether it's how Trump won't denounce David Duke, won't denounce Putin, won't denounce this, won't denounce that, won't say he'll "accept" the result of a future vote. What kind of question is that, and why keep at it after the answer they got springing it on him at the first debate? Because they're stumping for his opponent and want him to say it's over? Or because you're scared he'll somehow start a civil war? I beseech you or anyone to use more than their feels to explain what's so threatening.
I'm pretty sure they asked it because he tweeted about the election being rigged.
All he had to say he will support a free and fair election. Bam. Done. Sounds good. Instead he gave the penultimate response from the list of worst possible responses. All that's worse than that is saying outright he wouldn't accept the results if he lost.
It's fair to ask him what he thinks when he's made an incredible claim that the elections rigged. It's fair of him to give an indignant response. But it's fucking insane to cast doubt on the election when there's no evidence of it being rigged.
Appeals to hypocrisy won't stop the international and national headlines condemning Trump for his ever-so-meme-able "I'll Keep You in Suspense, Okay?" Trump flubbed his only possible chance to come back with that nonsense.
Yes, because the people writing those headlines don't have the self-awareness to explain the difference even to themselves before coming up with something like "appeal to hypocrisy" as you did.
Are you being real right now? Bush also refused by that logic. Florida went to Bush by 500 votes FIVE HUNDRED. Of course neither person was going to concede until the recount was done. You'd have to be insane to throw in the towel if things are that close until the final ruling was in. If Florida went to Gore by 500 votes and Bush wanted to wait for the final tally to give up no sane person would hold that against him either. But once it was all said and done Gore conceded the election like a man. Something Donald has no idea how to do. Neither Gore nor Bush said things were rigged or cried like a loser months before the election.
Okay, good, Bush also refused, so we can count him as another example - did you think I was attacking Al Gore or something? The real possibility of this election ending up in court is one of the reasons people on both sides of the aisle chastised Ruth Bader Ginsburg's comments.
There's no possible way this ends up in courts if Donald is an adult when he gets slaughtered. But he's a manchild of unprecedented levels and a clear and present threat to our democracy. 2000 has zero parallels to this year.
If you have an argument for why he's a "clear and present threat" to democracy, that would be a much more interesting point to witness than you calling the nominee a manchild and saying that he cries like a loser.
Because all I see is poll flogging and a media that's found yet another story to concoct, whether it's how Trump won't denounce David Duke, won't denounce Putin, won't denounce this, won't denounce that, won't say he'll "accept" the result of a future vote. What kind of question is that, and why keep at it after the answer they got springing it on him at the first debate? Because they're stumping for his opponent and want him to say it's over? Or because you're scared he'll somehow start a civil war? I beseech you or anyone to use more than their feels to explain what's so threatening.
I honestly don't understand what you're arguing against...
In the 2nd debate he said he would accept the results of the election. In the 3rd debate he specifically did not say he would accept the results of the election.
That's very clearly implying that he believes there is voter fraud despite no supporting evidence, and clearly undermining the democratic process.
Do you honestly think it's okay that a presidential candidate won't accept the result of the election? He didn't even concede that there's the possibility it's not rigged.
Appeals to hypocrisy won't stop the international and national headlines condemning Trump for his ever-so-meme-able "I'll Keep You in Suspense, Okay?" Trump flubbed his only possible chance to come back with that nonsense.
Yes, because the people writing those headlines don't have the self-awareness to explain the difference even to themselves before coming up with something like "appeal to hypocrisy" as you did.
Are you being real right now? Bush also refused by that logic. Florida went to Bush by 500 votes FIVE HUNDRED. Of course neither person was going to concede until the recount was done. You'd have to be insane to throw in the towel if things are that close until the final ruling was in. If Florida went to Gore by 500 votes and Bush wanted to wait for the final tally to give up no sane person would hold that against him either. But once it was all said and done Gore conceded the election like a man. Something Donald has no idea how to do. Neither Gore nor Bush said things were rigged or cried like a loser months before the election.
Okay, good, Bush also refused, so we can count him as another example - did you think I was attacking Al Gore or something? The real possibility of this election ending up in court is one of the reasons people on both sides of the aisle chastised Ruth Bader Ginsburg's comments.
There's no possible way this ends up in courts if Donald is an adult when he gets slaughtered. But he's a manchild of unprecedented levels and a clear and present threat to our democracy. 2000 has zero parallels to this year.
If you have an argument for why he's a "clear and present threat" to democracy, that would be a much more interesting point to witness than you calling the nominee a manchild and saying that he cries like a loser.
Because all I see is poll flogging and a media that's found yet another story to concoct, whether it's how Trump won't denounce David Duke, won't denounce Putin, won't denounce this, won't denounce that, won't say he'll "accept" the result of a future vote. What kind of question is that, and why keep at it after the answer they got springing it on him at the first debate? Because they're stumping for his opponent and want him to say it's over? Or because you're scared he'll somehow start a civil war? I beseech you or anyone to use more than their feels to explain what's so threatening.
Democracy is based upon the trust citizens give to their institutions, and most importantly, on the election process. Undermining it because you are a spoiled brat who can't take responsibility for your losses is not ok. It's not about starting a civil war, it's about damaging the social contract that holds the country together. Which then begs the question:
You don't care of course, and you will never acknowledge the fact that your dude left the rails a loooong time ago.
It didn't come across as fuck queens and fuck NYC from my side. It was "These assholes are born right here in the States so turning away immigrants isn't gonna stop it".
Which is pretty damn true and addressing the real issue instead of playing the race game and helping out ISIS with recruiting.
My problem with Trump's statement isn't that he won't just outright accept the election results. If there is actual fraud, then he is right to insist on having that sorted out. My problem is with his idiotic claims that there is fraud without presenting any evidence at all. Show the evidence of fraud, or shut the hell up about it. Claiming fraud without any evidence is what Alex Jones does, not what a presidential nominee should.
And tying into that, if he actually believes in voter fraud based on infowars level nonsense, and in anti-vaxx, and birther conspiracy bullshit, what else can <insert enemy> make him believe by making suggestive YouTube videos?
Trump doesn't seem to understand that his comments seriously undermine the confidence of the electorate in democratic institutions. And unlike other systems of government, democracies depend on the electorate having am informed belief that the system is fair.
So any allegation of electoral fraud is very serious and cannot be done lightly, because it's an accusation that goes to the heart of the Democratic process.
The problem with trump is that he's making these allegations without barely any evidence to support his claims. This is ridiculously irresponsible.
In other words, that question was asked of the 8% who answered one of those things. Now, of those 8%, a full 3% says they will vote Johnson, and a further 1% says they will vote Stein, so barring some really powerful consolidation efforts, you can forget about ever getting those votes, but just for the hell of it, lets take them into account:
So Clinton "final" tally: 48 + .39*8 = 51% And Trump "final" tally: 44 + .61*8 = 49%
Note that there is a LOT more poll "massaging" than should reasonably be done, and in fact, given a poll of 1500 people, 8% is only 120, so that sample size for 3rd party and undecideds is too small to be significant in any case, even without my further calculations.
But yeah, keep posting misleading numbers to show your hero will win.
That same poll shows that the majority felt that Clinton won the debate...
Cite the results in full, not just the question that supports your confirmation bias
Actually even that question is a loss for trump. Even if suddenly all those undecideds and 3rd party voters would vote... it wouldn't be enough if you just fo the math with the questions right above it.
Also it should come as no surprise that when a large chunk of voters has left a candidate, many end up being 3rd party voters or undecided/nonvoters. And when presented with the given question they answer mainly with their former choice. In fact it shows that suddenly it is Trump who has a voter motivation and turnout issue and not Clinton how everyone expected for most of the time.
Good on Trump for bringing up the Haiti situation with regard to the Clinton foundation. Some really important stuff finally getting out into the mainstream media recently.
Inspired by the 50 Shades of Grey-style story of Bill's library and the disillusionment of last night's debate, I wrote a fictional story about a possible future European leader... I don't know what came over me, honestly, this is the first time I've ever done anything like this, and I'm horribly ashamed to post it. Please look away:
I had been a strong woman for all 63 years of my life, but today I was weak in the knees. I was meeting Putin, and I was nervous. He was 91 years old, but just as sharp as he had always been. Still, I was not intimidated by him for his wit, but because of the gravity of the meeting. He was no longer the president of Russia, but a distinguished international diplomat for the new Russian government.
Now that I had united the European leaders in the reformed EU, I knew the time had come to break our military ties with America and Putin needed to be told of the activities that could soon take place on the borders of his country. I spoke to him quite bluntly about what I intended to do over the coming years.
“I want you to know, Europe appreciate the sacrifices Russia made for us in the Second World War.”
I'd heard the American president refer to him as Hitler recently. I couldn't believe it, how could she compare a Russian to Hitler. I knew it was one of he worst things one could possibly do in the mind of the old statesman. He had given up his career in Russian politics in 2032, when he retired from his position in the party. One of his pupils had taken over the reigns, voted into power by 38% while running versus two Putin pupils who had formed other parties and each got less than 30%. It had been a close race. The fourth and fifth place runners were the liberal and social parties.
“I want Europeans to eat Russian ice cream, and learn from Russian philosophers, to exchange students and work together on scientific projects. I want Russians to come holiday in Europe.”
I had already helped our people deal with the Middle Eastern immigrants. American interventionism had continued the spills of refugees over the years. It was difficult for Europe to absorb such huge numbers of people from a different culture. I had made sure there was an effort for multiculturalism by providing a path + Show Spoiler +
[go with me on this LOL]
for their music, books, TV shows, video games and websites to be translated into the many languages of Europe so their ways and beliefs could be truly absorbed into European culture and its people's understanding of the world. That was over 20 years ago now, and the effects had begun to take root. The sexual revolution came to a close and found a sort of middle ground, and while Europe did not change much of its liberal policies, women became less sexualized and our bodies were no longer used to sell products. We still had our place of equality in society and in fact began to find equal numbers in advertising and leadership positions.
“I intend to tell the Chinese about Europe's plans as well. Europe does not support the military actions of the US inside countries that are with Russia.”
The oil prices skyrocketed during the crisis that led to the unfortunate demise of most of Saudi Arabia. Europe was largely independent of oil these days, as solar power quickly took hold of the whole of Europe, and several countries had begun projects to build massive “green towers” where thousands of people could live, grow food and manufacture most products that were necessary for daily life without any use of oil whatsoever. It had been a new revolution, much of it based on the technology necessary for the populations on the Moon (China-Russia) and Mars (America) to become self-sustaining.
“Europe intends to push for world-wide nuclear disarmament. Any future possibility of events like this must be prevented. We expect your support in our efforts as well.”
Aside from the disastrous events in Saudi Arabia, along with the Arabian multiculturalism that had spread through Europe came a natural dislike for Americans. There had even been children's cartoons about being droned to death by Americans. Who saw that coming, eh?
“I will tell them Europe cannot be in a military alliance with a country that continues to expand their nuclear arsenal in such an aggressive manner.”
I would not know what the results of my proposal to America would be. They had been... strenuous to deal with at best in their foreign policy. If they reacted the same way they did to Saudi Arabia, there would not be much left of us if we did not have sufficient defenses. While I did not want to rely on the Russian army, we would likely have to buy their weaponry, and it would be good to know what their position would be should the worst come to pass. I didn't really expect America to react aggressively, its people might be shocked, but ultimately America doesn't care what Europe does or thinks.
“They listen to our criticisms, but they do not act upon it and continue to play war in other countries. They don't really hear what we – and indeed the rest of the world – are asking of them. Typical men.”
While I had been certain he was surprised at what I had said, he did not show it. Putin merely said he would have to speak with the Russian president about these matters before confirming anything. But I knew I had his support when he gave me a quick wink as he walked out of the room when his conversation over the Russian version of the cortex began. It was a relief to know that the talk had gone over well. Perhaps I can convince him to help Europe start a colony on Mars, after all.
On October 20 2016 18:43 a_flayer wrote: Inspired by the 50 Shades of Grey-style story of Bill's library and the disillusionment of last night's debate, I wrote a fictional story about a possible future European leader... I don't know what came over me, honestly, this is the first time I've ever done anything like this, and I'm horribly ashamed to post it. Please look away:
I had been a strong woman for all 63 years of my life, but today I was weak in the knees. I was meeting Putin, and I was nervous. He was 91 years old, but just as sharp as he had always been. Still, I was not intimidated by him for his wit, but because of the gravity of the meeting. He was no longer the president of Russia, but a distinguished international diplomat for the new Russian government.
Now that I had united the European leaders in the reformed EU, I knew the time had come to break our military ties with America and Putin needed to be told of the activities that could soon take place on the borders of his country. I spoke to him quite bluntly about what I intended to do over the coming years.
“I want you to know, Europe appreciate the sacrifices Russia made for us in the Second World War.”
I'd heard the American president refer to him as Hitler recently. I couldn't believe it, how could she compare a Russian to Hitler. I knew it was one of he worst things one could possibly do in the mind of the old statesman. He had given up his career in Russian politics in 2032, when he retired from his position in the party. One of his pupils had taken over the reigns, voted into power by 38% while running versus two Putin pupils who had formed other parties and each got less than 30%. It had been a close race. The fourth and fifth place runners were the liberal and social parties.
“I want Europeans to eat Russian ice cream, and learn from Russian philosophers, to exchange students and work together on scientific projects. I want Russians to come holiday in Europe.”
I had already helped our people deal with the Middle Eastern immigrants. American interventionism had continued the spills of refugees over the years. It was difficult for Europe to absorb such huge numbers of people from a different culture. I had made sure there was an effort for multiculturalism by providing a path + Show Spoiler +
[go with me on this LOL]
for their music, books, TV shows, video games and websites to be translated into the many languages of Europe so their ways and beliefs could be truly absorbed into European culture and its people's understanding of the world. That was over 20 years ago now, and the effects had begun to take root. The sexual revolution came to a close and found a sort of middle ground, and while Europe did not change much of its liberal policies, women became less sexualized and our bodies were no longer used to sell products. We still had our place of equality in society and in fact began to find equal numbers in advertising and leadership positions.
“I intend to tell the Chinese about Europe's plans as well. Europe does not support the military actions of the US inside countries that are with Russia.”
The oil prices skyrocketed during the crisis that led to the unfortunate demise of most of Saudi Arabia. Europe was largely independent of oil these days, as solar power quickly took hold of the whole of Europe, and several countries had begun projects to build massive “green towers” where thousands of people could live, grow food and manufacture most products that were necessary for daily life without any use of oil whatsoever. It had been a new revolution, much of it based on the technology necessary for the populations on the Moon (China-Russia) and Mars (America) to become self-sustaining.
“Europe intends to push for world-wide nuclear disarmament. Any future possibility of events like this must be prevented. We expect your support in our efforts as well.”
Aside from the disastrous events in Saudi Arabia, along with the Arabian multiculturalism that had spread through Europe came a natural dislike for Americans. There had even been children's cartoons about being droned to death by Americans. Who saw that coming, eh?
“I will tell them Europe cannot be in a military alliance with a country that continues to expand their nuclear arsenal in such an aggressive manner.”
I would not know what the results of my proposal to America would be. They had been... strenuous to deal with at best in their foreign policy. If they reacted the same way they did to Saudi Arabia, there would not be much left of us if we did not have sufficient defenses. While I did not want to rely on the Russian army, we would likely have to buy their weaponry, and it would be good to know what their position would be should the worst come to pass. I didn't really expect America to react aggressively, its people might be shocked, but ultimately America doesn't care what Europe does or thinks.
“They listen to our criticisms, but they do not act upon it and continue to play war in other countries. They don't really hear what we – and indeed the rest of the world – are asking of them. Typical men.”
While I had been certain he was surprised at what I had said, he did not show it. Putin merely said he would have to speak with the Russian president about these matters before confirming anything. But I knew I had his support when he gave me a quick wink as he walked out of the room when his conversation over the Russian version of the cortex began. It was a relief to know that the talk had gone over well. Perhaps I can convince him to help Europe start a colony on Mars, after all.
EPT
