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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On October 20 2016 02:50 Plansix wrote:I agree and admit I was incorrect. There is zero evidence to date that wikileaks are altered documents and it is pure speculation on my part that they will do so in the future. My speculation is based on previous statements by Mr. Assange and the mounting evidence that he has a clear agenda and is not accountable to anyone. On top of that, Mr. Assange has stated several times that anyone who sides with people he considers to be enemies are also free game and he is not bothered if he harms them. In the previous article he stated that anyone who sides with the US forces in Afghanistan deserved to die. That includes anyone we know serving there, like my brother. And I assume that he has not problem going after me based on who I am voting for.
Admission noted and appreciated.
You have reason to believe plenty of things, that the released documents are fake/doctored is not one of them. He may very well be a despicable human being, but there is nothing suggesting there is any sensible reason to doubt the authenticity of the documents, other than watching too much Joy Reid/Clinton team feeds.
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United States42993 Posts
On October 20 2016 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2016 02:43 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2016 02:20 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:14 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2016 02:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:06 Evotroid wrote:On October 20 2016 02:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 01:59 Plansix wrote:On October 20 2016 01:47 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 19 2016 21:58 Plansix wrote:
The problem with wikileaks is that it isn’t transparency, but acts like it is. It is stolen information that can be easily have parts omitted, doctored or seeded with fake information. And they only target the side they disagree with, rather than try to force both parties to be equally transparent.
I think transparency is important, but I also understand that privacy is necessary for things to get accomplished. They've released 10 million documents, how many have been doctored or seeded with fake information? That is the question everyone should ask themselves. Well they say 0, and I've seen 0 evidence any have been. So I'm leaning toward 0. I don't know if it is actually this lost on you, but reading that, I bet Bill would laugh off his ass in his secret corruption library lounge where he corrupts stuff...... Bruh, I know it's fun to imagineer opponents but my comment on the penthouse wasn't some secret corruption lair, just a personal benefit maintained by his charity. That people want to push the point that it's absurd to suggest that perhaps he doesn't only do official charity business in a penthouse he stays at frequently, is their own feigned naivety. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of wikileaks documents. Out of curiousity, where is this penthouse? Where did you hear about it? Can you link to an article referencing it? I know you keep saying I'm feigning naivety for not believing that Bill Clinton keeps a secret penthouse in his library for personal use outside of his normal library functions but I'm really not. I just haven't yet seen all the things you have seen that led you to that conclusion. Mr. Leopoulos says Mr. Clinton “loved” his old job. “If he could be president again tomorrow, he would be.”
No doubt one of Mr. Clinton’s favorite exhibits is the exact replica of the Oval Office, meticulously cloned by Little Rock interior designer Kaki Hockersmith. Miss Hockersmith, who decorated the real Oval Office for Mr. Clinton, even grew the ivy on the fireplace from a cutting of the plant in the actual White House.
The fake Oval Office is where Mr. Clinton recently taped a television commercial with former President George Bush to raise money for tsunami relief.
Mr. Clinton, who plans to overnight at the penthouse whenever he has a speaking engagement in town, invited Mr. Leopoulos and his wife, as well as his first high-school date, Mauria Aspell, and her husband over the other night for a game of hearts. SourceWere you genuinely unaware of it's existence? Yes, I had not yet seen any evidence that a penthouse existed other than you saying I was naive for asking you for evidence that it existed. I did keep asking you but you just kept calling me naive. Incidentally when I googled looking for it (I searched: clinton presidential library executive suite penthouse) there were only tabloids and explicitly conservative sources reporting on it. This is a pretty representative example http://www.wnd.com/2016/10/inside-bill-clintons-presidential-library-playboy-pad/I'm still pretty skeptical honestly. jfc... I'm hoping this was post lag where you didn't see another source. Now we know the best way to get Democrats to doubt a fact is to put it in right wing tabloids.
So an apartment in the library complex for the Clinton family exists. Please show a source for the claim that they're using it for corrupt purposes.
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On October 20 2016 02:56 Barrin wrote:
What exactly is wrong with Mr. Clinton having a suite in that building?
Because it exists and is associated with the Clintons. Sanders owns like three homes, but no one cares about that for reasons.
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On October 20 2016 02:54 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2016 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:43 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2016 02:20 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:14 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2016 02:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:06 Evotroid wrote:On October 20 2016 02:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 01:59 Plansix wrote:On October 20 2016 01:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
They've released 10 million documents, how many have been doctored or seeded with fake information? That is the question everyone should ask themselves. Well they say 0, and I've seen 0 evidence any have been. So I'm leaning toward 0. I don't know if it is actually this lost on you, but reading that, I bet Bill would laugh off his ass in his secret corruption library lounge where he corrupts stuff...... Bruh, I know it's fun to imagineer opponents but my comment on the penthouse wasn't some secret corruption lair, just a personal benefit maintained by his charity. That people want to push the point that it's absurd to suggest that perhaps he doesn't only do official charity business in a penthouse he stays at frequently, is their own feigned naivety. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of wikileaks documents. Out of curiousity, where is this penthouse? Where did you hear about it? Can you link to an article referencing it? I know you keep saying I'm feigning naivety for not believing that Bill Clinton keeps a secret penthouse in his library for personal use outside of his normal library functions but I'm really not. I just haven't yet seen all the things you have seen that led you to that conclusion. Mr. Leopoulos says Mr. Clinton “loved” his old job. “If he could be president again tomorrow, he would be.”
No doubt one of Mr. Clinton’s favorite exhibits is the exact replica of the Oval Office, meticulously cloned by Little Rock interior designer Kaki Hockersmith. Miss Hockersmith, who decorated the real Oval Office for Mr. Clinton, even grew the ivy on the fireplace from a cutting of the plant in the actual White House.
The fake Oval Office is where Mr. Clinton recently taped a television commercial with former President George Bush to raise money for tsunami relief.
Mr. Clinton, who plans to overnight at the penthouse whenever he has a speaking engagement in town, invited Mr. Leopoulos and his wife, as well as his first high-school date, Mauria Aspell, and her husband over the other night for a game of hearts. SourceWere you genuinely unaware of it's existence? Yes, I had not yet seen any evidence that a penthouse existed other than you saying I was naive for asking you for evidence that it existed. I did keep asking you but you just kept calling me naive. Incidentally when I googled looking for it (I searched: clinton presidential library executive suite penthouse) there were only tabloids and explicitly conservative sources reporting on it. This is a pretty representative example http://www.wnd.com/2016/10/inside-bill-clintons-presidential-library-playboy-pad/I'm still pretty skeptical honestly. jfc... I'm hoping this was post lag where you didn't see another source. Now we know the best way to get Democrats to doubt a fact is to put it in right wing tabloids. So an apartment in the library complex for the Clinton family exists. Please show a source for the claim that they're using it for corrupt purposes.
I'm claiming that people who think it's only used for charity business (what it's for according to tax purposes) are being intentionally naive. I could link the right-wing tabloids with people making claims, but I know anything short of a conviction would be inadequate evidence anyway.
Based on the lies they've already told, the behavior displayed in the white house by Bill, and the frequency that he is being reported as being there, brings me to the conclusion that it's highly unlikely he's better behaved in his private penthouse than he was in the white house.
I can't demand people come to that conclusion without more evidence, but it doesn't make it a baseless assumption either.
On October 20 2016 02:59 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2016 02:56 Barrin wrote:
What exactly is wrong with Mr. Clinton having a suite in that building? Because it exists and is associated with the Clintons. Sanders owns like three homes, but no one cares about that for reasons.
Right back into disingenuous misrepresentation.
The reason it came up Barrin, was an example of how Bill personally benefits from the family charity. Considering it took 2 sources (beyond the dozens mentioning it recently) just to get an acknowledgement it existed, I doubt we'll get there.
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On October 20 2016 02:53 Seeker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2016 02:47 ImFromPortugal wrote:
If Trump wins can we make Trump a member of Teamliquid starcraft 2 team ? "LiquidTrumP" would sound badass. jk
Anyway guys, Trump will destroy her tonight. I still believe he can win this! The only affiliation TL would ever want with Trump would be when we announce the "Trump apologizes to America for his offensive actions. TL 24hr AMA."
This would be pretty cool.
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On October 20 2016 02:59 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2016 02:54 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2016 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:43 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2016 02:20 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:14 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2016 02:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:06 Evotroid wrote:On October 20 2016 02:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 01:59 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
That is the question everyone should ask themselves. Well they say 0, and I've seen 0 evidence any have been. So I'm leaning toward 0. I don't know if it is actually this lost on you, but reading that, I bet Bill would laugh off his ass in his secret corruption library lounge where he corrupts stuff...... Bruh, I know it's fun to imagineer opponents but my comment on the penthouse wasn't some secret corruption lair, just a personal benefit maintained by his charity. That people want to push the point that it's absurd to suggest that perhaps he doesn't only do official charity business in a penthouse he stays at frequently, is their own feigned naivety. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of wikileaks documents. Out of curiousity, where is this penthouse? Where did you hear about it? Can you link to an article referencing it? I know you keep saying I'm feigning naivety for not believing that Bill Clinton keeps a secret penthouse in his library for personal use outside of his normal library functions but I'm really not. I just haven't yet seen all the things you have seen that led you to that conclusion. Mr. Leopoulos says Mr. Clinton “loved” his old job. “If he could be president again tomorrow, he would be.”
No doubt one of Mr. Clinton’s favorite exhibits is the exact replica of the Oval Office, meticulously cloned by Little Rock interior designer Kaki Hockersmith. Miss Hockersmith, who decorated the real Oval Office for Mr. Clinton, even grew the ivy on the fireplace from a cutting of the plant in the actual White House.
The fake Oval Office is where Mr. Clinton recently taped a television commercial with former President George Bush to raise money for tsunami relief.
Mr. Clinton, who plans to overnight at the penthouse whenever he has a speaking engagement in town, invited Mr. Leopoulos and his wife, as well as his first high-school date, Mauria Aspell, and her husband over the other night for a game of hearts. SourceWere you genuinely unaware of it's existence? Yes, I had not yet seen any evidence that a penthouse existed other than you saying I was naive for asking you for evidence that it existed. I did keep asking you but you just kept calling me naive. Incidentally when I googled looking for it (I searched: clinton presidential library executive suite penthouse) there were only tabloids and explicitly conservative sources reporting on it. This is a pretty representative example http://www.wnd.com/2016/10/inside-bill-clintons-presidential-library-playboy-pad/I'm still pretty skeptical honestly. jfc... I'm hoping this was post lag where you didn't see another source. Now we know the best way to get Democrats to doubt a fact is to put it in right wing tabloids. So an apartment in the library complex for the Clinton family exists. Please show a source for the claim that they're using it for corrupt purposes. I'm claiming that people who think it's only used for charity business (what it's for according to tax purposes) are being intentionally naive. I could link the right-wing tabloids with people making claims, but I know anything short of a conviction would be inadequate evidence anyway. Based on the lies they've already told, the behavior displayed in the white house by Bill, and the frequency that he is being reported as being there, brings me to the conclusion that it's highly unlikely he's better behaved in his private penthouse than he was in the white house. I can't demand people come to that conclusion without more evidence, but it doesn't make it a baseless assumption either.
So like my case above, this is based on pure speculation because you don’t like Bill Clinton?
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On October 20 2016 03:01 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2016 02:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:54 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2016 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:43 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2016 02:20 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:14 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2016 02:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:06 Evotroid wrote:On October 20 2016 02:01 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
Well they say 0, and I've seen 0 evidence any have been. So I'm leaning toward 0. I don't know if it is actually this lost on you, but reading that, I bet Bill would laugh off his ass in his secret corruption library lounge where he corrupts stuff...... Bruh, I know it's fun to imagineer opponents but my comment on the penthouse wasn't some secret corruption lair, just a personal benefit maintained by his charity. That people want to push the point that it's absurd to suggest that perhaps he doesn't only do official charity business in a penthouse he stays at frequently, is their own feigned naivety. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of wikileaks documents. Out of curiousity, where is this penthouse? Where did you hear about it? Can you link to an article referencing it? I know you keep saying I'm feigning naivety for not believing that Bill Clinton keeps a secret penthouse in his library for personal use outside of his normal library functions but I'm really not. I just haven't yet seen all the things you have seen that led you to that conclusion. Mr. Leopoulos says Mr. Clinton “loved” his old job. “If he could be president again tomorrow, he would be.”
No doubt one of Mr. Clinton’s favorite exhibits is the exact replica of the Oval Office, meticulously cloned by Little Rock interior designer Kaki Hockersmith. Miss Hockersmith, who decorated the real Oval Office for Mr. Clinton, even grew the ivy on the fireplace from a cutting of the plant in the actual White House.
The fake Oval Office is where Mr. Clinton recently taped a television commercial with former President George Bush to raise money for tsunami relief.
Mr. Clinton, who plans to overnight at the penthouse whenever he has a speaking engagement in town, invited Mr. Leopoulos and his wife, as well as his first high-school date, Mauria Aspell, and her husband over the other night for a game of hearts. SourceWere you genuinely unaware of it's existence? Yes, I had not yet seen any evidence that a penthouse existed other than you saying I was naive for asking you for evidence that it existed. I did keep asking you but you just kept calling me naive. Incidentally when I googled looking for it (I searched: clinton presidential library executive suite penthouse) there were only tabloids and explicitly conservative sources reporting on it. This is a pretty representative example http://www.wnd.com/2016/10/inside-bill-clintons-presidential-library-playboy-pad/I'm still pretty skeptical honestly. jfc... I'm hoping this was post lag where you didn't see another source. Now we know the best way to get Democrats to doubt a fact is to put it in right wing tabloids. So an apartment in the library complex for the Clinton family exists. Please show a source for the claim that they're using it for corrupt purposes. I'm claiming that people who think it's only used for charity business (what it's for according to tax purposes) are being intentionally naive. I could link the right-wing tabloids with people making claims, but I know anything short of a conviction would be inadequate evidence anyway. Based on the lies they've already told, the behavior displayed in the white house by Bill, and the frequency that he is being reported as being there, brings me to the conclusion that it's highly unlikely he's better behaved in his private penthouse than he was in the white house. I can't demand people come to that conclusion without more evidence, but it doesn't make it a baseless assumption either. So like my case above, this is based on pure speculation because you don’t like Bill Clinton?
No, it has nothing to do with whether I like him or not, just his past behavior can be indicative of his future/currrent behavior.
The difference being the past behavior in Bill's case is directly related to my assumption, where Assange's assholyness is unrelated to the veracity of his documents.
Specifically Bill used tax payer funded housing to shelter an affair and for other personal benefits, which is what I am suggesting is happening. Where as you were suggesting him not redacting info was justification for suggesting the documents weren't real/undoctored.
It's almost the opposite really.
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The files that Wikileaks itself releases may not be doctored, but given their (i) tendency to try and make everything look damning by quoting out of context (ii) publishing only select documents it's clear that they have an agenda and are a pretty biased source.
And seriously GH if the best you can come up with is that Clinton has an apartment he uses a couple times a month at most that's pretty trivial. CEO's of most large orgs have a pretty cushy office. It's also a not uncommon practice to turn it into a living space.
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On October 20 2016 02:50 Plansix wrote:I agree and admit I was incorrect. There is zero evidence to date that wikileaks are altered documents and it is pure speculation on my part that they will do so in the future. My speculation is based on previous statements by Mr. Assange and the mounting evidence that he has a clear agenda and is not accountable to anyone. On top of that, Mr. Assange has stated several times that anyone who sides with people he considers to be enemies are also free game and he is not bothered if he harms them. In the previous article he stated that anyone who sides with the US forces in Afghanistan deserved to die. That includes anyone we know serving there, like my brother. And I assume that he has not problem going after me based on who I am voting for.
Have they changed their stance about the emails? I did not know there was a shift?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/7/26/1552616/-Russian-Hackers-Altered-Emails-Before-Release-to-Wikileaks
This from the New York Times —
“American intelligence agencies have told the White House they now have “high confidence” that the Russian government was behind the theft of emails and documents from the Democratic National Committee, according to federal officials who have been briefed on the evidence.
But intelligence officials have cautioned that they are uncertain whether the electronic break-in at the committee’s computer systems was intended as fairly routine cyberespionage — of the kind the United States also conducts around the world — or as part of an effort to manipulate the 2016 presidential election.
The emails were released by WikiLeaks, whose founder, Julian Assange, has made it clear that he hoped to harm Hillary Clinton’s chances of winning the presidency. It is unclear how the documents made their way to the group. But a large sampling was published before the WikiLeaks release by several news organizations and someone who called himself “Guccifer 2.0,” who investigators now believe was an agent of the G.R.U., Russia’s military intelligence service.
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On October 20 2016 02:43 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2016 02:20 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:14 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2016 02:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:06 Evotroid wrote:On October 20 2016 02:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 01:59 Plansix wrote:On October 20 2016 01:47 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 19 2016 21:58 Plansix wrote:
The problem with wikileaks is that it isn’t transparency, but acts like it is. It is stolen information that can be easily have parts omitted, doctored or seeded with fake information. And they only target the side they disagree with, rather than try to force both parties to be equally transparent.
I think transparency is important, but I also understand that privacy is necessary for things to get accomplished. They've released 10 million documents, how many have been doctored or seeded with fake information? That is the question everyone should ask themselves. Well they say 0, and I've seen 0 evidence any have been. So I'm leaning toward 0. I don't know if it is actually this lost on you, but reading that, I bet Bill would laugh off his ass in his secret corruption library lounge where he corrupts stuff...... Bruh, I know it's fun to imagineer opponents but my comment on the penthouse wasn't some secret corruption lair, just a personal benefit maintained by his charity. That people want to push the point that it's absurd to suggest that perhaps he doesn't only do official charity business in a penthouse he stays at frequently, is their own feigned naivety. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of wikileaks documents. Out of curiousity, where is this penthouse? Where did you hear about it? Can you link to an article referencing it? I know you keep saying I'm feigning naivety for not believing that Bill Clinton keeps a secret penthouse in his library for personal use outside of his normal library functions but I'm really not. I just haven't yet seen all the things you have seen that led you to that conclusion. Mr. Leopoulos says Mr. Clinton “loved” his old job. “If he could be president again tomorrow, he would be.”
No doubt one of Mr. Clinton’s favorite exhibits is the exact replica of the Oval Office, meticulously cloned by Little Rock interior designer Kaki Hockersmith. Miss Hockersmith, who decorated the real Oval Office for Mr. Clinton, even grew the ivy on the fireplace from a cutting of the plant in the actual White House.
The fake Oval Office is where Mr. Clinton recently taped a television commercial with former President George Bush to raise money for tsunami relief.
Mr. Clinton, who plans to overnight at the penthouse whenever he has a speaking engagement in town, invited Mr. Leopoulos and his wife, as well as his first high-school date, Mauria Aspell, and her husband over the other night for a game of hearts. SourceWere you genuinely unaware of it's existence? Yes, I had not yet seen any evidence that a penthouse existed other than you saying I was naive for asking you for evidence that it existed. I did keep asking you but you just kept calling me naive. Incidentally when I googled looking for it (I searched: clinton presidential library executive suite penthouse) there were only tabloids and explicitly conservative sources reporting on it. This is a pretty representative example http://www.wnd.com/2016/10/inside-bill-clintons-presidential-library-playboy-pad/I'm still pretty skeptical honestly.
From the Wikipedia article, there is indeed a 2000 sq ft executive apartment at the top floor of this "Library".
Also LOL, I had no idea Presidents building libraries to themselves was a thing. Clinton's is the 17th, apparently. And the 3rd to have an apartment, after Reagan and Bush Jr.
But aside from that, the rest is typical reddit fluff. All of these libraries are built by private donations for the purpose of building these libraries. It did go through the Clinton Foundation, but when you have an existing framework for taking donations, why not (unless there's some weird tax laws or something regarding this)? The fundraising to build this was expressly for building the library, so it's not like they were siphoning money from somewhere else.
So basically, apparently it's a thing for ex-Presidents to ask people to donate money to build a library dedicated to themselves, and it's becoming a trend for them to build private apartments and offices in them.
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On October 19 2016 22:43 Logo wrote:
*Also* talking about the leaker's motivation and the source of the information is good too, but it's not a reason to ignore the leaks.
What are you, Putins lackey? That is almost word for word what he said when someone asked him in an interview about the hack.
If I were to bet money, I would bet my money on Assange or wikileaks being responsible in some way for the hack. Maybe they hired a Russian hacking group or something to get it done. That is a connection that seems very plausible to me, but it has little to do with the Russian government or Putin (which is what people suggest when they said "Russia did it", right?).
Also, this is why I don't think Putin is a Bad Guy(tm) + Show Spoiler + and more importantly, should be reasoned with instead of vilified to no end.
Apparently you can trust him to do as he says. Huh, how's about that.
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On October 20 2016 03:03 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2016 03:01 Plansix wrote:On October 20 2016 02:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:54 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2016 02:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:43 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2016 02:20 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:14 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2016 02:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:06 Evotroid wrote:
[quote]
I don't know if it is actually this lost on you, but reading that, I bet Bill would laugh off his ass in his secret corruption library lounge where he corrupts stuff...... Bruh, I know it's fun to imagineer opponents but my comment on the penthouse wasn't some secret corruption lair, just a personal benefit maintained by his charity. That people want to push the point that it's absurd to suggest that perhaps he doesn't only do official charity business in a penthouse he stays at frequently, is their own feigned naivety. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of wikileaks documents. Out of curiousity, where is this penthouse? Where did you hear about it? Can you link to an article referencing it? I know you keep saying I'm feigning naivety for not believing that Bill Clinton keeps a secret penthouse in his library for personal use outside of his normal library functions but I'm really not. I just haven't yet seen all the things you have seen that led you to that conclusion. Mr. Leopoulos says Mr. Clinton “loved” his old job. “If he could be president again tomorrow, he would be.”
No doubt one of Mr. Clinton’s favorite exhibits is the exact replica of the Oval Office, meticulously cloned by Little Rock interior designer Kaki Hockersmith. Miss Hockersmith, who decorated the real Oval Office for Mr. Clinton, even grew the ivy on the fireplace from a cutting of the plant in the actual White House.
The fake Oval Office is where Mr. Clinton recently taped a television commercial with former President George Bush to raise money for tsunami relief.
Mr. Clinton, who plans to overnight at the penthouse whenever he has a speaking engagement in town, invited Mr. Leopoulos and his wife, as well as his first high-school date, Mauria Aspell, and her husband over the other night for a game of hearts. SourceWere you genuinely unaware of it's existence? Yes, I had not yet seen any evidence that a penthouse existed other than you saying I was naive for asking you for evidence that it existed. I did keep asking you but you just kept calling me naive. Incidentally when I googled looking for it (I searched: clinton presidential library executive suite penthouse) there were only tabloids and explicitly conservative sources reporting on it. This is a pretty representative example http://www.wnd.com/2016/10/inside-bill-clintons-presidential-library-playboy-pad/I'm still pretty skeptical honestly. jfc... I'm hoping this was post lag where you didn't see another source. Now we know the best way to get Democrats to doubt a fact is to put it in right wing tabloids. So an apartment in the library complex for the Clinton family exists. Please show a source for the claim that they're using it for corrupt purposes. I'm claiming that people who think it's only used for charity business (what it's for according to tax purposes) are being intentionally naive. I could link the right-wing tabloids with people making claims, but I know anything short of a conviction would be inadequate evidence anyway. Based on the lies they've already told, the behavior displayed in the white house by Bill, and the frequency that he is being reported as being there, brings me to the conclusion that it's highly unlikely he's better behaved in his private penthouse than he was in the white house. I can't demand people come to that conclusion without more evidence, but it doesn't make it a baseless assumption either. So like my case above, this is based on pure speculation because you don’t like Bill Clinton? No, it has nothing to do with whether I like him or not, just his past behavior can be indicative of his future/currrent behavior.
But its pure speculation? Unless you have come creditable source on the subject that we are to aware of.
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I checked with my state today, and apparently even if I wanted to, you can't vote for electors who then make a decision about who would be the president. Not that such is really relevant this election. But I'd like to at least have the option of voting for people who can take the time to look at all candidates very thoroughly.
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The 2016 campaign may have reached dispiriting new lows, but voter registration in America has soared to new heights as 200 million people are now registered to vote for the first time in U.S. history.
The milestone is a sign of the aggressive voter registration efforts ahead of Nov. 8 and a symptom of the fast-growing and demographically shifting electorate that is expected to redound to the benefit of the Democratic Party in the coming years.
There is no current national database of voter registration because each state independently runs its own election. But TargetSmart, a Democratic political data firm, told POLITICO that the country passed the 200 million threshold in recent days as North Carolina, New Hampshire, Nevada and New York reported new voter numbers.
Tom Bonier, CEO of TargetSmart, said national registration now stands at 200,081,377 voters.
The figure means more than 50 million new people have registered to vote in the past eight years. Only 146.3 million were registered as recently as 2008, when then-Sen. Barack Obama first won the White House — a remarkable 33 percent surge in the electorate during a single presidency.
The last time a Clinton was on the presidential ballot 20 years ago, the electorate was 127.6 million people.
The wave of new voters this year has dramatically favored the Democratic Party, according to TargetSmart, which analyzed the expected party preferences of the new registrants in 15 of the first- and second-tier presidential battlegrounds.
Overall, TargetSmart found that 42.6 percent of the new voters registered this year lean Democratic, and only 29 percent lean Republican (28.4 percent lean independent).
Worse for the GOP, registration trended more Democratic in every single battleground state, from a small margin in Georgia (4.3 percentage points) to massive leads in diversifying states like Colorado (29.3 points), Nevada (20.4 points) and North Carolina (9.2 points).
And since June 1, the trend has been even more stark. In Virginia, TargetSmart’s data show only 11.7 percent of new registrants lean Republican — versus nearly 50 percent expected to lean Democratic.
Source
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On October 20 2016 02:42 GreenHorizons wrote:Now that we passed the "it's all a lie" phase I expect "It's not a big deal, it's normal", followed quickly by "But compare that to Trump", and maybe even find a way to blame Russia. Of course none of that would matter to my original point (that they personally benefit from the charity), but they have already reconstructed in their minds what I was actually saying and will probably keep arguing against that imaginary opponent.
On October 20 2016 03:03 ticklishmusic wrote:
And seriously GH if the best you can come up with is that Clinton has an apartment he uses a couple times a month at most that's pretty trivial. CEO's of most large orgs have a pretty cushy office. It's also a not uncommon practice to turn it into a living space.
On October 20 2016 03:04 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2016 02:43 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2016 02:20 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:14 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2016 02:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:06 Evotroid wrote:On October 20 2016 02:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 01:59 Plansix wrote:On October 20 2016 01:47 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 19 2016 21:58 Plansix wrote:
The problem with wikileaks is that it isn’t transparency, but acts like it is. It is stolen information that can be easily have parts omitted, doctored or seeded with fake information. And they only target the side they disagree with, rather than try to force both parties to be equally transparent.
I think transparency is important, but I also understand that privacy is necessary for things to get accomplished. They've released 10 million documents, how many have been doctored or seeded with fake information? That is the question everyone should ask themselves. Well they say 0, and I've seen 0 evidence any have been. So I'm leaning toward 0. I don't know if it is actually this lost on you, but reading that, I bet Bill would laugh off his ass in his secret corruption library lounge where he corrupts stuff...... Bruh, I know it's fun to imagineer opponents but my comment on the penthouse wasn't some secret corruption lair, just a personal benefit maintained by his charity. That people want to push the point that it's absurd to suggest that perhaps he doesn't only do official charity business in a penthouse he stays at frequently, is their own feigned naivety. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of wikileaks documents. Out of curiousity, where is this penthouse? Where did you hear about it? Can you link to an article referencing it? I know you keep saying I'm feigning naivety for not believing that Bill Clinton keeps a secret penthouse in his library for personal use outside of his normal library functions but I'm really not. I just haven't yet seen all the things you have seen that led you to that conclusion. Mr. Leopoulos says Mr. Clinton “loved” his old job. “If he could be president again tomorrow, he would be.”
No doubt one of Mr. Clinton’s favorite exhibits is the exact replica of the Oval Office, meticulously cloned by Little Rock interior designer Kaki Hockersmith. Miss Hockersmith, who decorated the real Oval Office for Mr. Clinton, even grew the ivy on the fireplace from a cutting of the plant in the actual White House.
The fake Oval Office is where Mr. Clinton recently taped a television commercial with former President George Bush to raise money for tsunami relief.
Mr. Clinton, who plans to overnight at the penthouse whenever he has a speaking engagement in town, invited Mr. Leopoulos and his wife, as well as his first high-school date, Mauria Aspell, and her husband over the other night for a game of hearts. SourceWere you genuinely unaware of it's existence? Yes, I had not yet seen any evidence that a penthouse existed other than you saying I was naive for asking you for evidence that it existed. I did keep asking you but you just kept calling me naive. Incidentally when I googled looking for it (I searched: clinton presidential library executive suite penthouse) there were only tabloids and explicitly conservative sources reporting on it. This is a pretty representative example http://www.wnd.com/2016/10/inside-bill-clintons-presidential-library-playboy-pad/I'm still pretty skeptical honestly. From the Wikipedia article, there is indeed a 2000 sq ft executive apartment at the top floor of this "Library". Also LOL, I had no idea Presidents building libraries to themselves was a thing. Clinton's is the 17th, apparently. And the 3rd to have an apartment, after Reagan and Bush Jr. But aside from that, the rest is typical reddit fluff. All of these libraries are built by private donations for the purpose of building these libraries. It did go through the Clinton Foundation, but when you have an existing framework for taking donations, why not (unless there's some weird tax laws or something regarding this)? The fundraising to build this was expressly for building the library, so it's not like they were siphoning money from somewhere else. So basically, apparently it's a thing for ex-Presidents to ask people to donate money to build a library dedicated to themselves, and it's becoming a trend for them to build private apartments and offices in them.
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On October 20 2016 03:09 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2016 02:42 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:33 WhiteDog wrote:
Our dear GH is totally right. Now that we passed the "it's all a lie" phase I expect "It's not a big deal, it's normal", followed quickly by "But compare that to Trump", and maybe even find a way to blame Russia. Of course none of that would matter to my original point (that they personally benefit from the charity), but they have already reconstructed in their minds what I was actually saying and will probably keep arguing against that imaginary opponent. Show nested quote +On October 20 2016 03:03 ticklishmusic wrote:
And seriously GH if the best you can come up with is that Clinton has an apartment he uses a couple times a month at most that's pretty trivial. CEO's of most large orgs have a pretty cushy office. It's also a not uncommon practice to turn it into a living space. Show nested quote +On October 20 2016 03:04 WolfintheSheep wrote:On October 20 2016 02:43 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2016 02:20 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:14 KwarK wrote:On October 20 2016 02:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 02:06 Evotroid wrote:On October 20 2016 02:01 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 20 2016 01:59 Plansix wrote:On October 20 2016 01:47 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
They've released 10 million documents, how many have been doctored or seeded with fake information? That is the question everyone should ask themselves. Well they say 0, and I've seen 0 evidence any have been. So I'm leaning toward 0. I don't know if it is actually this lost on you, but reading that, I bet Bill would laugh off his ass in his secret corruption library lounge where he corrupts stuff...... Bruh, I know it's fun to imagineer opponents but my comment on the penthouse wasn't some secret corruption lair, just a personal benefit maintained by his charity. That people want to push the point that it's absurd to suggest that perhaps he doesn't only do official charity business in a penthouse he stays at frequently, is their own feigned naivety. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the validity of wikileaks documents. Out of curiousity, where is this penthouse? Where did you hear about it? Can you link to an article referencing it? I know you keep saying I'm feigning naivety for not believing that Bill Clinton keeps a secret penthouse in his library for personal use outside of his normal library functions but I'm really not. I just haven't yet seen all the things you have seen that led you to that conclusion. Mr. Leopoulos says Mr. Clinton “loved” his old job. “If he could be president again tomorrow, he would be.”
No doubt one of Mr. Clinton’s favorite exhibits is the exact replica of the Oval Office, meticulously cloned by Little Rock interior designer Kaki Hockersmith. Miss Hockersmith, who decorated the real Oval Office for Mr. Clinton, even grew the ivy on the fireplace from a cutting of the plant in the actual White House.
The fake Oval Office is where Mr. Clinton recently taped a television commercial with former President George Bush to raise money for tsunami relief.
Mr. Clinton, who plans to overnight at the penthouse whenever he has a speaking engagement in town, invited Mr. Leopoulos and his wife, as well as his first high-school date, Mauria Aspell, and her husband over the other night for a game of hearts. SourceWere you genuinely unaware of it's existence? Yes, I had not yet seen any evidence that a penthouse existed other than you saying I was naive for asking you for evidence that it existed. I did keep asking you but you just kept calling me naive. Incidentally when I googled looking for it (I searched: clinton presidential library executive suite penthouse) there were only tabloids and explicitly conservative sources reporting on it. This is a pretty representative example http://www.wnd.com/2016/10/inside-bill-clintons-presidential-library-playboy-pad/I'm still pretty skeptical honestly. From the Wikipedia article, there is indeed a 2000 sq ft executive apartment at the top floor of this "Library". Also LOL, I had no idea Presidents building libraries to themselves was a thing. Clinton's is the 17th, apparently. And the 3rd to have an apartment, after Reagan and Bush Jr. But aside from that, the rest is typical reddit fluff. All of these libraries are built by private donations for the purpose of building these libraries. It did go through the Clinton Foundation, but when you have an existing framework for taking donations, why not (unless there's some weird tax laws or something regarding this)? The fundraising to build this was expressly for building the library, so it's not like they were siphoning money from somewhere else. So basically, apparently it's a thing for ex-Presidents to ask people to donate money to build a library dedicated to themselves, and it's becoming a trend for them to build private apartments and offices in them.
This is a fairly nonsensical wall of quotes GH, can you explicate what you mean or are you still in your anti-explain yourself moods?
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EPT
