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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5491

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15723 Posts
October 10 2016 21:44 GMT
#109801
Looking forward, do any of the republicans on TL think opposition to gay marriage and abortion will be viable in 2020? When are you guys going to finally admit defeat and try to win an election again? This Jesus shit isn't working. I'm glad its not working, because it is dog shit. But it amazes me to see a losing position be tried again and again.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
October 10 2016 21:46 GMT
#109802
On October 11 2016 06:23 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Listening to this congressman defending trump on CNN is awesome. The ability to deny reality in some people is amazing. I can't decide if people genuinely believe the shit they say in his defense, or if they are just clinging to a slim hope that he will win and remember their support. Either way, that is kinda frightening.

a standard part of politics in many places is lying blatantly to protect your team. sad really, but that's how it is.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
October 10 2016 21:47 GMT
#109803
On October 11 2016 06:41 Dan HH wrote:


E: I prefer this one


A comparison to Marie Antoinette pretending to be a shepherdess would not be unwarranted here.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
October 10 2016 21:49 GMT
#109804
On October 11 2016 06:44 Mohdoo wrote:
Looking forward, do any of the republicans on TL think opposition to gay marriage and abortion will be viable in 2020? When are you guys going to finally admit defeat and try to win an election again? This Jesus shit isn't working. I'm glad its not working, because it is dog shit. But it amazes me to see a losing position be tried again and again.


The christian right is a powerful force. The party wouldnt dare risk losing them, and to be fair, they may be so interwtwined that it would be impossible anyway. We have a lot of uneducated religious people in this country still, and they know/use that fact.
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15723 Posts
October 10 2016 21:52 GMT
#109805
On October 11 2016 06:49 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2016 06:44 Mohdoo wrote:
Looking forward, do any of the republicans on TL think opposition to gay marriage and abortion will be viable in 2020? When are you guys going to finally admit defeat and try to win an election again? This Jesus shit isn't working. I'm glad its not working, because it is dog shit. But it amazes me to see a losing position be tried again and again.


The christian right is a powerful force. The party wouldnt dare risk losing them, and to be fair, they may be so interwtwined that it would be impossible anyway. We have a lot of uneducated religious people in this country still, and they know/use that fact.

Powerful, very powerful even, yes. But this is the 3rd time it jasmt been powerful enough. 2016 being the last election where baby boomers play a dominant role is a huge deal.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
October 10 2016 21:52 GMT
#109806
Gay marriage maybe, abortion no.
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
October 10 2016 21:57 GMT
#109807
Yeah the right will never let go of abortion, they actually have some ground there. There is no legitimate defense for being anti-gay outside of religion.
Question.?
Ayaz2810
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2763 Posts
October 10 2016 21:59 GMT
#109808
On October 11 2016 06:57 biology]major wrote:
Yeah the right will never let go of abortion, they actually have some ground there. There is no legitimate defense for being anti-gay outside of religion.


Its a shame that they still think in 2016 that a woman should not have absolute and uncontested control over what happens inside her body. I dunno what kind of "ground" they could have.
Vrtra Vanquisher/Tiamat Trouncer/World Serpent Slayer
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18835 Posts
October 10 2016 22:01 GMT
#109809
On October 11 2016 06:59 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2016 06:57 biology]major wrote:
Yeah the right will never let go of abortion, they actually have some ground there. There is no legitimate defense for being anti-gay outside of religion.


Its a shame that they still think in 2016 that a woman should not have absolute and uncontested control over what happens inside her body. I dunno what kind of "ground" they could have.

Legitimate reverence for the notion that abortion is murder doesn't really care about bodily integrity, and therein lies the ground.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10794 Posts
October 10 2016 22:02 GMT
#109810
On October 11 2016 06:59 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2016 06:57 biology]major wrote:
Yeah the right will never let go of abortion, they actually have some ground there. There is no legitimate defense for being anti-gay outside of religion.


Its a shame that they still think in 2016 that a woman should not have absolute and uncontested control over what happens inside her body. I dunno what kind of "ground" they could have.



There is actually the ground of what the future Father wants.


But imho as long as we are discussing abortion in general, we aren't even close to this minefield .
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
October 10 2016 22:06 GMT
#109811


heh. heh.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
mahrgell
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany3943 Posts
October 10 2016 22:11 GMT
#109812
On October 11 2016 06:57 biology]major wrote:
Yeah the right will never let go of abortion, they actually have some ground there. There is no legitimate defense for being anti-gay outside of religion.

Uhm, I don't think there is much needed to change that stance. All you need is candidate, whos daughter had an abortion, and he simply can't go with the usual course. And don't tell me that could not happen. People would have said the same, if you were telling them, that someone with Trumps history in regards to marriages, and extramarrital stuff would be the candidate. And not like in the past all candidate familymembers have been saint (by GOP values).

Then again, this makes me wonder again, why always the entire family is dragged into those elections.
Hell, if I would have to estimate how many Germans know the name of Merkels husband, I would guess about 10-15%. Same answer for how many would know it was her husband if you would tell them the name or how many would know him from a picture. Hell, I would actually bet that more people in Germany believe that Merkel isn't even married, than there would be people knowing her husband.
And she certainly isn't the only one, whose family is completely left out of politics. In fact I don't know anyone who is really dragging their family into it, besides the occasional "i'm an x time mother"
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
October 10 2016 22:13 GMT
#109813
On October 11 2016 06:59 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2016 06:57 biology]major wrote:
Yeah the right will never let go of abortion, they actually have some ground there. There is no legitimate defense for being anti-gay outside of religion.


Its a shame that they still think in 2016 that a woman should not have absolute and uncontested control over what happens inside her body. I dunno what kind of "ground" they could have.


If you fail to see the argument of the other side then idk what to tell you. It's difficult to draw the line at where a fetus is human and gets constitutional rights, and it's even harder to evaluate if the fetus's right to life supersedes the woman's right to bodily autonomy. If you think these are cut and dry cases you are delusional. Better to be literally conservative in these situations where you don't really know what's right. Your position makes no sense to me.
Question.?
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
October 10 2016 22:15 GMT
#109814
On October 11 2016 07:11 mahrgell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2016 06:57 biology]major wrote:
Yeah the right will never let go of abortion, they actually have some ground there. There is no legitimate defense for being anti-gay outside of religion.

Uhm, I don't think there is much needed to change that stance. All you need is candidate, whos daughter had an abortion, and he simply can't go with the usual course. And don't tell me that could not happen. People would have said the same, if you were telling them, that someone with Trumps history in regards to marriages, and extramarrital stuff would be the candidate. And not like in the past all candidate familymembers have been saint (by GOP values).

Then again, this makes me wonder again, why always the entire family is dragged into those elections.
Hell, if I would have to estimate how many Germans know the name of Merkels husband, I would guess about 10-15%. Same answer for how many would know it was her husband if you would tell them the name or how many would know him from a picture. Hell, I would actually bet that more people in Germany believe that Merkel isn't even married, than there would be people knowing her husband.
And she certainly isn't the only one, whose family is completely left out of politics. In fact I don't know anyone who is really dragging their family into it, besides the occasional "i'm an x time mother"


American politics™.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21922 Posts
October 10 2016 22:18 GMT
#109815
On October 11 2016 07:11 mahrgell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2016 06:57 biology]major wrote:
Yeah the right will never let go of abortion, they actually have some ground there. There is no legitimate defense for being anti-gay outside of religion.

Uhm, I don't think there is much needed to change that stance. All you need is candidate, whos daughter had an abortion, and he simply can't go with the usual course. And don't tell me that could not happen. People would have said the same, if you were telling them, that someone with Trumps history in regards to marriages, and extramarrital stuff would be the candidate. And not like in the past all candidate familymembers have been saint (by GOP values).

Then again, this makes me wonder again, why always the entire family is dragged into those elections.
Hell, if I would have to estimate how many Germans know the name of Merkels husband, I would guess about 10-15%. Same answer for how many would know it was her husband if you would tell them the name or how many would know him from a picture. Hell, I would actually bet that more people in Germany believe that Merkel isn't even married, than there would be people knowing her husband.
And she certainly isn't the only one, whose family is completely left out of politics. In fact I don't know anyone who is really dragging their family into it, besides the occasional "i'm an x time mother"

The family also never comes into the picture in Dutch elections. I would be impressed if you can find 100 people in our country who can identify the Prime Minsters wife.

#justUSthings
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
October 10 2016 22:19 GMT
#109816
On October 11 2016 07:13 biology]major wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2016 06:59 Ayaz2810 wrote:
On October 11 2016 06:57 biology]major wrote:
Yeah the right will never let go of abortion, they actually have some ground there. There is no legitimate defense for being anti-gay outside of religion.


Its a shame that they still think in 2016 that a woman should not have absolute and uncontested control over what happens inside her body. I dunno what kind of "ground" they could have.


If you fail to see the argument of the other side then idk what to tell you. It's difficult to draw the line at where a fetus is human and gets constitutional rights, and it's even harder to evaluate if the fetus's right to life supersedes the woman's right to bodily autonomy. If you think these are cut and dry cases you are delusional. Better to be literally conservative in these situations where you don't really know what's right. Your position makes no sense to me.

true that; his position is incorrect and excessive.
however it would help if the focus was on a scientific and evidence based approach to the question of when it becomes human; as that's something that could be independetly assessed and rigorously analyzed.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
RoomOfMush
Profile Joined March 2015
1296 Posts
October 10 2016 22:21 GMT
#109817
On October 11 2016 07:19 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2016 07:13 biology]major wrote:
On October 11 2016 06:59 Ayaz2810 wrote:
On October 11 2016 06:57 biology]major wrote:
Yeah the right will never let go of abortion, they actually have some ground there. There is no legitimate defense for being anti-gay outside of religion.


Its a shame that they still think in 2016 that a woman should not have absolute and uncontested control over what happens inside her body. I dunno what kind of "ground" they could have.


If you fail to see the argument of the other side then idk what to tell you. It's difficult to draw the line at where a fetus is human and gets constitutional rights, and it's even harder to evaluate if the fetus's right to life supersedes the woman's right to bodily autonomy. If you think these are cut and dry cases you are delusional. Better to be literally conservative in these situations where you don't really know what's right. Your position makes no sense to me.

[...] it would help if the focus was on a scientific and evidence based approach to the question of when it becomes human; as that's something that could be independetly assessed and rigorously analyzed.

D'uh! Obviously when god breathes a soul into its body roughly 2 weeks before the pregnancy.
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-10 22:21:59
October 10 2016 22:21 GMT
#109818
Well, Trump is now saying "If they wanna release more tapes saying inappropriate things, we'll continue to talk about Bill and Hillary Clinton doing inappropriate things."

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/trump-threatens-clinton-attacks-tapes-229566

I don't think he understands how blackmail works, because he's already going to do that-he's made that perfectly clear. Or how journalism works. Much like he doesn't understand how "I'm not going to bring it up" works.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18835 Posts
October 10 2016 22:21 GMT
#109819
Europeans generally have a better sense for how bad it is to mix family and politics than Americans.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5748 Posts
October 10 2016 22:23 GMT
#109820


This could be a prescription for insomnia, so satisfying.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
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