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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5058
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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farvacola
United States18856 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15742 Posts
On September 21 2016 01:38 farvacola wrote: Both sides are going to be playing their aces in the hole soon; I wonder who's will be better The perfect end to this would be both of them ending up in prison. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Two years before the bombings that Ahmad Khan Rahami is suspected of carrying out in New York and New Jersey, his father told the police that his son was a terrorist, prompting a review by federal agents, according to two law enforcement officials. The father, Mohammad Rahami, in a brief interview on Tuesday, said that at the time he told agents from the Federal Bureau of Investigation about his concern, his son had just had a fight with another of his sons and stabbed the man, leading to a criminal investigation. “Two years ago I go to the F.B.I. because my son was doing really bad, O.K.?” he said. “But they check almost two months, they say, ‘He’s O.K., he’s clean, he’s not a terrorist.’ I say O.K.” He added: “Now they say he is a terrorist. I say O.K.” Source Apparently the problem isn’t immigration or refugees, but that we really suck at keeping track of potential terrorist. Even when their father’s report them. Of course the father recanted because he is a father, so I guess the FBI should close the file and never follow up again. | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
On September 21 2016 01:33 Plansix wrote: Unquestioning faith in one’s nation, government and culture as flawless and superior has got to be up there with the most dangerous beliefs a nation can hold or promote. The same goes with people. If someone looks back on their previous actions and thinks “I did everything perfectly, if something went wrong or was bad, I couldn’t have contributed”, I don’t trust that person. Nah, obviously absolute certainly in that you are right is always going to end up the best way to go about it. "We're absolutely certain that Iraq has WMDs." "We're sure the earth is 6,000 years old and that carbon levels in the atmosphere rising far above what it's likely been in the past 400,000 years isn't going to end up in catastrophe because that data couldn't possibly be correct." Nothing bad can ever come from that! | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On September 21 2016 01:12 TheDwf wrote: Protests devolve into semi-riots like that because of cop brutality and the government being autistic, no idea why you bring the memory of World Wars into this. Criticizing austerity and politicians bulldozing social rights to refund banksters' debts ≠ “spitting at France's face for not giving enough welfare”. Social protests like that are also a fairly traditional part of the French national identity, so how come you don't take pride in that?! French tangent. + Show Spoiler + Those protests aren't about social right they're just having fun breaking shit. I'm not proud when I see people attacking police officers and breaking stores, burning cars. Maybe if you're a caveman that's how you express yourself, otherwise you're just a thug. France is full of nepotism and buddy-buddy horseshit. If your life goal is to earn €3000 a month, not save up money to buy a house, go skiing every year and have 1 hour lunch breaks every day, then yeah you're great for France. The current French government which is in place is the direct result of people wanting more by doing less (that's what happen when you vote for socialism in the first place). France's right-wing is already too left in more than a few ways. Sorry, I'm not proud to be French right now. I can get behind social protection for those who need it, health care, education, protection, justice. I can't get behind lazy slobs who destroy property (store owners are employers and own property right? fuck them, let's break things!!) because employers are going to have a little more flexibility over their business, especially when the economy is down the shit-hole like it is today. Like it or not, today more often than not, hiring someone is a liability more than an asset for a small business in France. I'm sure you're one of the people who assume that employers are out there to exploit their employees to the bone, which is precisely when businesses today are looking into hiring interns over and over again instead of looking for long term partners which is what employees SHOULD be. Patriotism and retaining a critical outlook on your nation are not exclusive. | ||
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RealityIsKing
613 Posts
On September 21 2016 01:40 Mohdoo wrote: The perfect end to this would be both of them ending up in prison. I think one of them HAVE to stay victorious at the end to keep the energy up. If we get some limp wristed fella afterward as a Prez. That'll be VERY demoralizing. | ||
KwarK
United States43746 Posts
If they ask her to respond to the claim that she founded ISIS she can respond that no, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi founded ISIS in conjunction with Al Qaeda in 2004 and led it until he was shot by US soldiers. ISIS then had a schism with Bin Laden who was also executed by US soldiers while Clinton watched in the situation room. Abu Umar al-Baghdadi took over ISIS until US soldiers fired a rocket into his house killing him and his close comrades. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is currently running the show when he's not running from the bombs we drop on his suspected locations. Just drop some serious knowledge of the situation and watch as Trump goes "nuh uh, Obama founded ISIS, Clinton cofounded". | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On September 21 2016 01:33 Plansix wrote: Unquestioning faith in one’s nation, government and culture as flawless and superior has got to be up there with the most dangerous beliefs a nation can hold or promote. The same goes with people. If someone looks back on their previous actions and thinks “I did everything perfectly, if something went wrong or was bad, I couldn’t have contributed”, I don’t trust that person. is it healthy to find yourself odious or hateful? to be filled with disgust or aversion at yourself? what about the implicit identification of self with nation that goes unspoken in your original statement? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 21 2016 01:44 IgnE wrote: is it healthy to find yourself odious or hateful? to be filled with disgust or aversion at yourself? what about the implicit identification of self with nation that goes unspoken in your original statement? You need to be a little less literally and me using a colorful phrase like self loathing makes a lot more sense. | ||
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
On September 21 2016 01:44 KwarK wrote: Hillary can smash this debate with the right questions. If they ask her to respond to the claim that she founded ISIS she can respond that no, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi founded ISIS in conjunction with Al Qaeda in 2004 and led it until he was shot by US soldiers. ISIS then had a schism with Bin Laden who was also executed by US soldiers while Clinton watched in the situation room. Abu Umar al-Baghdadi took over ISIS until US soldiers fired a rocket into his house killing him and his close comrades. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is currently running the show when he's not running from the bombs we drop on his suspected locations. Just drop some serious knowledge of the situation and watch as Trump goes "nuh uh, Obama founded ISIS, Clinton cofounded". I mean do you really expect them to actually get equal treatment? Clinton is getting treated like a potential future president of the USA, Trump is getting treated like a special needs kid running for student government. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15742 Posts
On September 21 2016 01:41 Plansix wrote: Source Apparently the problem isn’t immigration or refugees, but that we really suck at keeping track of potential terrorist. Even when their father’s report them. Of course the father recanted because he is a father, so I guess the FBI should close the file and never follow up again. This has got to be an impossible line to walk. If they go overboard, total Hitler situation. But here's the risk of going too far the other way. Haven't most the recent domestic terrorists been on lists? | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On September 21 2016 01:48 Jaaaaasper wrote: I mean do you really expect them to actually get equal treatment? Clinton is getting treated like a potential future president of the USA, Trump is getting treated like a special needs kid running for student government. The dishonest media is also perhaps realistic media. Wait though, doesn't "dishonest media" go hand in hand with "state-sanctioned media" which is the bane of humanity in the USA by brainwashing its population and children? | ||
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Madkipz
Norway1643 Posts
On September 21 2016 00:28 Plansix wrote: Requiring the pledge of allegiance in schools discourages the healthy self loathing other populations have for their own nation. It encourages people to assume America values are great, regardless of merit. Rather than the much more realistic view that our country is flawed beyond reason, but it’s our home and we should strive to make it better. Requiring it is like requiring everyone to stand during the national anthem. Or the US military paying the NFL for pro-patriotic advertising(you know, propaganda) during games, and then everyone getting really upset when one player did not stand. Except you've made all of the above worse by eroding the steady belief in the dreams and hopes of a nation and it's idioms. People growing disillusioned with their nation, are going to not give a shit about what goes on in government. The dark side of having a "realistic view of government" is that you're actively encouraging apathy. One of the reasons we're failing to properly address things in any nation is that there's a severe lack of belief in the ideal that your nation is worth believing in and building upon. Patriotism is one of the only societal glues that has proven to hold the possibility of binding the multitudes of different peoples in a nation together. Without these ideals binding us together the nation will split and crack and tear itself apart because there's no counterweight to our inherent tribalistic and individualistic nature once times are dire. By filling people with "negative realism" you're actively encouraging politicians to do whatever they damn well please, and to be as corrupt as possible because "What'd you expect? Be realistic." You can only do better if people demand better, and by being "realistic" about it you've basically made everyone in government unaccountable. Because the idea that there is a nation is all government is. Case in point: Austria-Hungary | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On September 21 2016 01:48 Mohdoo wrote: This has got to be an impossible line to walk. If they go overboard, total Hitler situation. But here's the risk of going too far the other way. Haven't most the recent domestic terrorists been on lists? It isn't binary, maybe keep an open file, do some digging and see if there is any meat on this claim. We will have to see the time line for when he started planning this thing and communicating with people outside the US. But I think that a father claiming his son is a terrorist is worthy of a little follow up. | ||
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farvacola
United States18856 Posts
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On September 21 2016 01:54 farvacola wrote: Humans are not inherently tribalistic nor individualist. I think you have some big time explaining to do with this one. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22158 Posts
On September 21 2016 01:48 Jaaaaasper wrote: I mean do you really expect them to actually get equal treatment? Clinton is getting treated like a potential future president of the USA, Trump is getting treated like a special needs kid running for student government. Maybe Trump gets treated like a special needs kid because he has repeatedly acted like one? If Trump acted 'presidential' he would be getting treated like all the other old Republican candidates. He himself chose to act different and as such be treated differently. | ||
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
On September 21 2016 01:49 Incognoto wrote: The dishonest media is also perhaps realistic media. Wait though, doesn't "dishonest media" go hand in hand with "state-sanctioned media" which is the bane of humanity in the USA by brainwashing its population and children? Dishonest media pushes the agenda that makes them more money becuase people want to see it, state sponsored media pushes a specific nations agenda by for example, paying the head of a well known leaking website to appear on state owned tv and then suddenly he starts only publishing things that further agenda and not publishing things that make that country look bad. One is for profit, one is for power. On September 21 2016 01:57 Gorsameth wrote: Maybe Trump gets treated like a special needs kid because he has repeatedly acted like one? If Trump acted 'presidential' he would be getting treated like all the other old Republican candidates. He himself chose to act different and as such be treated differently. The problem with that is Trump is getting handled with kids gloves in a attempt to appear unbiased and make this a close race which means better ratings. His son said if Trump acted like Hillary the media would be firing up the gas chamber, and not only the did the media basically ignore it, no one called him on the massive irony. DId you know the Trump Foundation has done everything he accused the Clinton foundation of and more, and yet all we hear about is Hillary's emails? | ||
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RealityIsKing
613 Posts
On September 21 2016 01:54 farvacola wrote: Humans are not inherently tribalistic nor individualist. All animals are. And we are after all animals too. For survival, this is what people do. And those that does it the best climbs up to the top of the ladder. | ||
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farvacola
United States18856 Posts
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