US Politics Mega-thread - Page 408
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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crayhasissues
United States682 Posts
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Adila
United States874 Posts
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On August 30 2013 12:37 xDaunt wrote: McConnell isn't the guy that they need to replace. Boehner is. Yea, but crazies rarely have good aim. | ||
Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Boehner, as already mentioned, is the bigger need. Cave first, ask questions later, oppose in rhetoric and not action-Boehner. | ||
xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
The bad tan doesn't help. | ||
farvacola
United States18818 Posts
One candidate that may be equal to that task is a homely sounding economic noun that separates the wealthy from the rest of us. "Assets" are a seemingly magical set of resources that work for anyone who owns them. In conversations about economic fairness, "assets" are a resource that has largely remained outside the policy tent. President Obama has recently raised expectations about how economic policy might attack the problem of inequality. But he likely won't get that far unless he too is ready to step outside that tent. Accounting textbooks teach us that there are different categories of assets, both tangible (e.g., land, buildings, housing, corporate stock, minerals) and intangible (e.g., patents, goodwill, copyrights). Wealthy people own lots of these assets. So many that they often forgo that more pedestrian instrument that makes possible the accumulation of income, the paycheck. Unwealthy people own few, if any, assets. Theirs is wage-dependent, income based universe. They live from paycheck to paycheck. If assets are the key discriminant that sustains the wealthy, why is it that the most commonly invoked solutions to economic inequality tend to focus on income enhancing measures such as minimum wage campaigns, payroll tax credits and job training? That's not where the real money is. One could be forgiven for suspecting a plot. If the general problem of economic inequality could be likened to an overly deep bowl of soup that should be more fairly consumed, income-based solutions attack the challenge with forks. We need spoons, asset spoons. Let's examine a few. Broad-Based Asset Sharing Strategies Since 1982 every citizen of the state of Alaska has enjoyed an annual dividend as a return on their share of oil revenues through the Alaska Permanent Fund. Bipartisan support, including from former Republican Gov. Sarah Palin, has protected this asset sharing program for over 30 years. When legislators sought access to a share of Permanent Fund revenue to fund state deficits in 1999, they were rejected by 84 percent of voters. Annual dividend payments have ranged from $331 to $2,069 per Alaskan. Similar natural resource-based ideas have been proposed but not yet implemented. One would provide all citizens an annual clean air dividend derived from taxing polluters. The "Sky Trust" concept developed by West coast entrepreneur Peter Barnes has also attracted bipartisan support in part because, like the Alaska Permanent Fund, it circumvents government capture and directs revenue immediately to citizens. Sky Trust dividends would be an asset shared by all. Natural resource-based asset sharing concepts have decided advantages: They can help address complex problems such as pollution, and they're easily shared through the common status of citizenship........ The Alternative American Dream: Inclusive Capitalism | ||
JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On August 31 2013 03:12 farvacola wrote: I found this really interesting. Definitely check the whole thing out. The Alternative American Dream: Inclusive Capitalism And lo did Jonny repeat: "we need the middle class to save and invest moar." I know there's more to the article than that, but that's really what the suggestions boil down to (admittedly I only skimmed it, but it's a familiar topic). I've found two political problems with advocating it. Some people, often on the left, don't trust it (finance is icky and frightening). Others, often on the right, are indifferent towards it (who cares so long as someone is investing). | ||
farvacola
United States18818 Posts
For all the data and anecdotes that can be shared about inclusive capitalism, it would be a mistake to suggest that the more established model of exclusive capitalism in the American workplace is on the run. Status quo models that reinforce concentrated ownership are taught in our premier law and business schools and touted as superior models. In their modestly titled paper "The End of History for Corporate Law," Yale professor Henry Hanssman and Harvard professor Reinier Kraakman declared the conversation about alternative ownership forms over. According to the authors, other corporate constituencies (e.g., employees) "should have their interests protected by contractual and regulatory means rather than participation through corporate governance." Standing side by side with the business and law school skeptics who look askance at inclusive capitalism models are the investment theory scolds. Contrary to the legendary counsel of Andrew Carnegie that those who wish to build wealth should concentrate both their thoughts and their capital in very few places, these experts remain eager to pounce on any report of workers holding too much employer stock. Because workers are supposedly "invested" in their firm by virtue of their employment, buying stock in their employer would be the opposite of prudently hedging their bets. In practice, however, evidence published in Nov. 1, 2010's "Pension and Benefits Daily" shows that inclusive capitalism companies, particularly in the ESOP sector, are more likely to have diversified retirement designs (e.g., ESOPs and 401(k) or pension plans) than comparable companies. And yet, the "diversification" criticism exposes a disagreement about inclusive capitalism's purpose. Inclusive capitalism is not an investment proposition; it is an ownership sharing proposition. It is about creating a new "membership" relationship between employees and their place of work, a relationship that is not merely psychological, creating a "sense" of ownership, but about real ownership. Finally, how does an exclusive capitalism thesis comport with the existence of inclusive public stock markets open to all? Doesn't the existence of massive amounts of 401(k) stock owned by ordinary Americans refute the claim of exclusive ownership? Unfortunately, research by NYU economist Edward Wolff suggests not. Using 2010 data, he estimates that 80.8 percent of stocks and mutual funds and 91.5 percent of business equity are held by the top 10 percent of American society. So despite the populist marketing claims that Wall Street is owned by all of us, the evidence indicates otherwise. The public markets of Wall Street remain the preserve of exclusive capitalism. | ||
xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On August 31 2013 03:40 JonnyBNoHo wrote: And lo did Jonny repeat: "we need the middle class to save and invest moar." This. Rampant consumerism and negative savings rates aren't sustainable over the long run. | ||
JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On August 31 2013 03:46 farvacola wrote: According to the article, many of the people in finance are the ones who most strongly oppose it. It depends on your definition of "it". i.e. what structure of 'inclusive capitalism' or asset ownership are we discussing. For example, diversification is advocated because there is no good portfolio insurance. It's like owning your home without fire insurance. One good fire and... | ||
farvacola
United States18818 Posts
In fact, from the article, The Rohrbacher-Sanders story suggests that the idea of inclusive capitalism enjoys a kind of ideological ambidextrousness that is promising. If enthusiasts of both the right and the left can refrain from insisting that participants enter the world of these ideas through their particular ideological doors, even more progress can be made. | ||
JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On August 31 2013 03:52 farvacola wrote: I'm pretty sure Kraakman and Hanssman, two highly lauded figures in corporate law, aren't very discriminating when they say that employees, " should have their interests protected by contractual and regulatory means rather than participation through corporate governance." Your suggestion that the left is opposed more than the right is not given evidence anywhere. In fact, from the article, I didn't say that the left is more opposed than the right. I said that both oppose it from different view points. You said finance opposed it, not corporate law. Corporate law is not finance. | ||
Danglars
United States12133 Posts
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farvacola
United States18818 Posts
On August 31 2013 04:07 JonnyBNoHo wrote: I didn't say that the left is more opposed than the right. I said that both oppose it from different view points. You said finance opposed it, not corporate law. Corporate law is not finance. That was in reference to the "investment theory scolds" but ok. | ||
JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On August 31 2013 04:10 farvacola wrote: That was in reference to the "investment theory scolds" but ok. OK, then revisit my post about diversification. The article mentioned a few things. The Alaska permanent fund doesn't have a diversification issue (it may, like many sovereign wealth funds have an efficiency issue, however). Workers directly owning the business they work for does have a diversification issue. So as I said, it depends on what you are exactly discussing. | ||
{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
WASHINGTON -- Financial institutions and other enterprises that do business with marijuana shops that are in compliance with state laws are unlikely to be prosecuted for money laundering or other federal crimes that could be brought under existing federal drug laws, a senior Department of Justice official said Thursday. During a briefing on the department's new policy Thursday, the official would not fully rule out prosecution in any case, but the guidance is a reversal of administration policy that had warned banks not to work with marijuana businesses. The Justice official said that the department recognized that forcing the establishments to operate on a cash basis put them at greater risk of robbery and violence. A three-page memo that accompanied the Thursday announcement speaks to the situation in more general terms, noting that a well-regulated, legal marijuana industry could come with a number of benefits to public safety and health. After listing a set of federal priorities -- keeping pot away from kids, preventing gangs and cartels from profiting from the drug trade -- the memo, authored by Deputy Attorney General James Cole, suggests that "robust" state regulation of legal marijuana "may affirmatively address those priorities by, for example, implementing effective measures to prevent diversion of marijuana outside of the regulated system and to other states, prohibiting access to marijuana by minors, and replacing an illicit marijuana trade that funds criminal enterprises with a tightly regulated market in which revenues are tracked and account for." Source | ||
Sbrubbles
Brazil5775 Posts
On August 31 2013 03:40 JonnyBNoHo wrote: And lo did Jonny repeat: "we need the middle class to save and invest moar." I know there's more to the article than that, but that's really what the suggestions boil down to (admittedly I only skimmed it, but it's a familiar topic). I've found two political problems with advocating it. Some people, often on the left, don't trust it (finance is icky and frightening). Others, often on the right, are indifferent towards it (who cares so long as someone is investing). Did we read the same article? I read the author saying how "inclusive capitalism" (aka good-old employee ownership) isn't a dead concept and should be more or less set as a goal for society, but it said nothing of how to get there (though middle class saving would be a means to do it, as would be straight-up redistributive policies). | ||
Danglars
United States12133 Posts
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On August 31 2013 06:35 Sbrubbles wrote: Did we read the same article? I read the author saying how "inclusive capitalism" (aka good-old employee ownership) isn't a dead concept and should be more or less set as a goal for society, but it said nothing of how to get there (though middle class saving would be a means to do it, as would be straight-up redistributive policies). Yeah it sure sounds like we read the same article. "good old employee ownership" is when employees own a large undiversified equity stake in a corporation. My frequent advocacy for the not rich to save more spend less is essentially a simplified version of the same core concept. I've advocated other policies that move towards the same goal, to mixed reception on this thread. On August 31 2013 07:45 Danglars wrote: How long until I can buy into marijuana alongside the other sin stocks of beer and tobacco? A few years maybe? I've heard that VC's are already in the space, though only on the medicinal and supplier businesses because of the legal issues. | ||
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