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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 408

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
August 30 2013 03:37 GMT
#8141
McConnell isn't the guy that they need to replace. Boehner is.
crayhasissues
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States682 Posts
August 30 2013 13:34 GMT
#8142
I hate how you can't have independent views and really be successful in the Senate. Partisan politics are so stupid. Hey, I can't have my own views because my political party will disown me and get me out of office.
twitch.tv/crayhasissues ||| @crayhasissues on twitter ||| Dota 2 Streamer that loves to help new players!
Adila
Profile Joined April 2010
United States874 Posts
August 30 2013 14:50 GMT
#8143
French Republicans? Better replace them with some Freedom Republicans...
DoubleReed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States4130 Posts
August 30 2013 15:57 GMT
#8144
On August 30 2013 12:37 xDaunt wrote:
McConnell isn't the guy that they need to replace. Boehner is.


Yea, but crazies rarely have good aim.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 30 2013 16:16 GMT
#8145
McConnell is a big government type, but isn't the main problem. His Bush voting record is a mixed bag since he was in favor of TARP, but then again we re-elected a big government Republican and there is an expectation to follow in form when you have the presidency and one or two houses of Congress. Jump back to late may and you'll see McConnell pleasing business interests by supporting the immigration bill in rhetoric (Vocal support for the Gang of Eight crafting). As a minority "leader" he's certainly good at pussyfooting around while guys like Chuckie Schumer set the agenda. He stuck his finger in the wind and reversed course later (as the bill was changing too). He de-facto ceded power to Schumer by maintaining his silence on such a core conservative issue. He needs to go eventually.

Boehner, as already mentioned, is the bigger need. Cave first, ask questions later, oppose in rhetoric and not action-Boehner.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
August 30 2013 16:18 GMT
#8146
Boehner is legitimately an idiot. I cringe whenever I see him interviewed on anything substantive.

The bad tan doesn't help.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18855 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-30 18:12:29
August 30 2013 18:12 GMT
#8147
I found this really interesting. Definitely check the whole thing out.

One candidate that may be equal to that task is a homely sounding economic noun that separates the wealthy from the rest of us. "Assets" are a seemingly magical set of resources that work for anyone who owns them. In conversations about economic fairness, "assets" are a resource that has largely remained outside the policy tent. President Obama has recently raised expectations about how economic policy might attack the problem of inequality. But he likely won't get that far unless he too is ready to step outside that tent.

Accounting textbooks teach us that there are different categories of assets, both tangible (e.g., land, buildings, housing, corporate stock, minerals) and intangible (e.g., patents, goodwill, copyrights). Wealthy people own lots of these assets. So many that they often forgo that more pedestrian instrument that makes possible the accumulation of income, the paycheck.

Unwealthy people own few, if any, assets. Theirs is wage-dependent, income based universe. They live from paycheck to paycheck. If assets are the key discriminant that sustains the wealthy, why is it that the most commonly invoked solutions to economic inequality tend to focus on income enhancing measures such as minimum wage campaigns, payroll tax credits and job training? That's not where the real money is. One could be forgiven for suspecting a plot. If the general problem of economic inequality could be likened to an overly deep bowl of soup that should be more fairly consumed, income-based solutions attack the challenge with forks. We need spoons, asset spoons. Let's examine a few.

Broad-Based Asset Sharing Strategies

Since 1982 every citizen of the state of Alaska has enjoyed an annual dividend as a return on their share of oil revenues through the Alaska Permanent Fund. Bipartisan support, including from former Republican Gov. Sarah Palin, has protected this asset sharing program for over 30 years. When legislators sought access to a share of Permanent Fund revenue to fund state deficits in 1999, they were rejected by 84 percent of voters. Annual dividend payments have ranged from $331 to $2,069 per Alaskan.

Similar natural resource-based ideas have been proposed but not yet implemented. One would provide all citizens an annual clean air dividend derived from taxing polluters. The "Sky Trust" concept developed by West coast entrepreneur Peter Barnes has also attracted bipartisan support in part because, like the Alaska Permanent Fund, it circumvents government capture and directs revenue immediately to citizens. Sky Trust dividends would be an asset shared by all. Natural resource-based asset sharing concepts have decided advantages: They can help address complex problems such as pollution, and they're easily shared through the common status of citizenship........


The Alternative American Dream: Inclusive Capitalism
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
August 30 2013 18:40 GMT
#8148
On August 31 2013 03:12 farvacola wrote:
I found this really interesting. Definitely check the whole thing out.
Show nested quote +

One candidate that may be equal to that task is a homely sounding economic noun that separates the wealthy from the rest of us. "Assets" are a seemingly magical set of resources that work for anyone who owns them. In conversations about economic fairness, "assets" are a resource that has largely remained outside the policy tent. President Obama has recently raised expectations about how economic policy might attack the problem of inequality. But he likely won't get that far unless he too is ready to step outside that tent.

Accounting textbooks teach us that there are different categories of assets, both tangible (e.g., land, buildings, housing, corporate stock, minerals) and intangible (e.g., patents, goodwill, copyrights). Wealthy people own lots of these assets. So many that they often forgo that more pedestrian instrument that makes possible the accumulation of income, the paycheck.

Unwealthy people own few, if any, assets. Theirs is wage-dependent, income based universe. They live from paycheck to paycheck. If assets are the key discriminant that sustains the wealthy, why is it that the most commonly invoked solutions to economic inequality tend to focus on income enhancing measures such as minimum wage campaigns, payroll tax credits and job training? That's not where the real money is. One could be forgiven for suspecting a plot. If the general problem of economic inequality could be likened to an overly deep bowl of soup that should be more fairly consumed, income-based solutions attack the challenge with forks. We need spoons, asset spoons. Let's examine a few.

Broad-Based Asset Sharing Strategies

Since 1982 every citizen of the state of Alaska has enjoyed an annual dividend as a return on their share of oil revenues through the Alaska Permanent Fund. Bipartisan support, including from former Republican Gov. Sarah Palin, has protected this asset sharing program for over 30 years. When legislators sought access to a share of Permanent Fund revenue to fund state deficits in 1999, they were rejected by 84 percent of voters. Annual dividend payments have ranged from $331 to $2,069 per Alaskan.

Similar natural resource-based ideas have been proposed but not yet implemented. One would provide all citizens an annual clean air dividend derived from taxing polluters. The "Sky Trust" concept developed by West coast entrepreneur Peter Barnes has also attracted bipartisan support in part because, like the Alaska Permanent Fund, it circumvents government capture and directs revenue immediately to citizens. Sky Trust dividends would be an asset shared by all. Natural resource-based asset sharing concepts have decided advantages: They can help address complex problems such as pollution, and they're easily shared through the common status of citizenship........


The Alternative American Dream: Inclusive Capitalism

And lo did Jonny repeat: "we need the middle class to save and invest moar."

I know there's more to the article than that, but that's really what the suggestions boil down to (admittedly I only skimmed it, but it's a familiar topic).

I've found two political problems with advocating it. Some people, often on the left, don't trust it (finance is icky and frightening). Others, often on the right, are indifferent towards it (who cares so long as someone is investing).
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18855 Posts
August 30 2013 18:46 GMT
#8149
According to the article, many of the people in finance are the ones who most strongly oppose it.

For all the data and anecdotes that can be shared about inclusive capitalism, it would be a mistake to suggest that the more established model of exclusive capitalism in the American workplace is on the run. Status quo models that reinforce concentrated ownership are taught in our premier law and business schools and touted as superior models. In their modestly titled paper "The End of History for Corporate Law," Yale professor Henry Hanssman and Harvard professor Reinier Kraakman declared the conversation about alternative ownership forms over. According to the authors, other corporate constituencies (e.g., employees) "should have their interests protected by contractual and regulatory means rather than participation through corporate governance."

Standing side by side with the business and law school skeptics who look askance at inclusive capitalism models are the investment theory scolds. Contrary to the legendary counsel of Andrew Carnegie that those who wish to build wealth should concentrate both their thoughts and their capital in very few places, these experts remain eager to pounce on any report of workers holding too much employer stock. Because workers are supposedly "invested" in their firm by virtue of their employment, buying stock in their employer would be the opposite of prudently hedging their bets. In practice, however, evidence published in Nov. 1, 2010's "Pension and Benefits Daily" shows that inclusive capitalism companies, particularly in the ESOP sector, are more likely to have diversified retirement designs (e.g., ESOPs and 401(k) or pension plans) than comparable companies.

And yet, the "diversification" criticism exposes a disagreement about inclusive capitalism's purpose. Inclusive capitalism is not an investment proposition; it is an ownership sharing proposition. It is about creating a new "membership" relationship between employees and their place of work, a relationship that is not merely psychological, creating a "sense" of ownership, but about real ownership.

Finally, how does an exclusive capitalism thesis comport with the existence of inclusive public stock markets open to all? Doesn't the existence of massive amounts of 401(k) stock owned by ordinary Americans refute the claim of exclusive ownership? Unfortunately, research by NYU economist Edward Wolff suggests not. Using 2010 data, he estimates that 80.8 percent of stocks and mutual funds and 91.5 percent of business equity are held by the top 10 percent of American society. So despite the populist marketing claims that Wall Street is owned by all of us, the evidence indicates otherwise. The public markets of Wall Street remain the preserve of exclusive capitalism.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
August 30 2013 18:49 GMT
#8150
On August 31 2013 03:40 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
And lo did Jonny repeat: "we need the middle class to save and invest moar."

This. Rampant consumerism and negative savings rates aren't sustainable over the long run.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
August 30 2013 18:50 GMT
#8151
On August 31 2013 03:46 farvacola wrote:
According to the article, many of the people in finance are the ones who most strongly oppose it.
Show nested quote +

For all the data and anecdotes that can be shared about inclusive capitalism, it would be a mistake to suggest that the more established model of exclusive capitalism in the American workplace is on the run. Status quo models that reinforce concentrated ownership are taught in our premier law and business schools and touted as superior models. In their modestly titled paper "The End of History for Corporate Law," Yale professor Henry Hanssman and Harvard professor Reinier Kraakman declared the conversation about alternative ownership forms over. According to the authors, other corporate constituencies (e.g., employees) "should have their interests protected by contractual and regulatory means rather than participation through corporate governance."

Standing side by side with the business and law school skeptics who look askance at inclusive capitalism models are the investment theory scolds. Contrary to the legendary counsel of Andrew Carnegie that those who wish to build wealth should concentrate both their thoughts and their capital in very few places, these experts remain eager to pounce on any report of workers holding too much employer stock. Because workers are supposedly "invested" in their firm by virtue of their employment, buying stock in their employer would be the opposite of prudently hedging their bets. In practice, however, evidence published in Nov. 1, 2010's "Pension and Benefits Daily" shows that inclusive capitalism companies, particularly in the ESOP sector, are more likely to have diversified retirement designs (e.g., ESOPs and 401(k) or pension plans) than comparable companies.

And yet, the "diversification" criticism exposes a disagreement about inclusive capitalism's purpose. Inclusive capitalism is not an investment proposition; it is an ownership sharing proposition. It is about creating a new "membership" relationship between employees and their place of work, a relationship that is not merely psychological, creating a "sense" of ownership, but about real ownership.

Finally, how does an exclusive capitalism thesis comport with the existence of inclusive public stock markets open to all? Doesn't the existence of massive amounts of 401(k) stock owned by ordinary Americans refute the claim of exclusive ownership? Unfortunately, research by NYU economist Edward Wolff suggests not. Using 2010 data, he estimates that 80.8 percent of stocks and mutual funds and 91.5 percent of business equity are held by the top 10 percent of American society. So despite the populist marketing claims that Wall Street is owned by all of us, the evidence indicates otherwise. The public markets of Wall Street remain the preserve of exclusive capitalism.

It depends on your definition of "it". i.e. what structure of 'inclusive capitalism' or asset ownership are we discussing.

For example, diversification is advocated because there is no good portfolio insurance. It's like owning your home without fire insurance. One good fire and...
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18855 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-30 18:57:15
August 30 2013 18:52 GMT
#8152
I'm pretty sure Kraakman and Hanssman, two highly lauded figures in corporate law, aren't very discriminating when they say that employees, " should have their interests protected by contractual and regulatory means rather than participation through corporate governance." Your suggestion that the left is opposed more than the right is not given evidence anywhere.

In fact, from the article,

The Rohrbacher-Sanders story suggests that the idea of inclusive capitalism enjoys a kind of ideological ambidextrousness that is promising. If enthusiasts of both the right and the left can refrain from insisting that participants enter the world of these ideas through their particular ideological doors, even more progress can be made.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
August 30 2013 19:07 GMT
#8153
On August 31 2013 03:52 farvacola wrote:
I'm pretty sure Kraakman and Hanssman, two highly lauded figures in corporate law, aren't very discriminating when they say that employees, " should have their interests protected by contractual and regulatory means rather than participation through corporate governance." Your suggestion that the left is opposed more than the right is not given evidence anywhere.

In fact, from the article,
Show nested quote +

The Rohrbacher-Sanders story suggests that the idea of inclusive capitalism enjoys a kind of ideological ambidextrousness that is promising. If enthusiasts of both the right and the left can refrain from insisting that participants enter the world of these ideas through their particular ideological doors, even more progress can be made.

I didn't say that the left is more opposed than the right. I said that both oppose it from different view points.

You said finance opposed it, not corporate law. Corporate law is not finance.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 30 2013 19:08 GMT
#8154
Why must these proponents of negative savings rate guise it in the terminology of "Inclusive Capitalism" or as I've heard in other places "Fair Capitalism?" It's like the class warfare types have to change their terminology every 5-10 years are be dismissed from the arena of ideas. You don't point out asset inequalities, advocate a redistribution of it, and tack it as an adjective on capitalism. Anything applied broadly to the rich or to asset-owners (Considering how much movement there is in the incomes of the top10% year-to-year, some asset owners are not rich in the sense of income any more) is an assault on property rights and free enterprise. Your profits are subjected to the income tax and then a wealth tax. Maybe a VAT when you spend it as well as a sales tax for good measure. Let's follow in the footsteps of France, shall we?
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18855 Posts
August 30 2013 19:10 GMT
#8155
On August 31 2013 04:07 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2013 03:52 farvacola wrote:
I'm pretty sure Kraakman and Hanssman, two highly lauded figures in corporate law, aren't very discriminating when they say that employees, " should have their interests protected by contractual and regulatory means rather than participation through corporate governance." Your suggestion that the left is opposed more than the right is not given evidence anywhere.

In fact, from the article,

The Rohrbacher-Sanders story suggests that the idea of inclusive capitalism enjoys a kind of ideological ambidextrousness that is promising. If enthusiasts of both the right and the left can refrain from insisting that participants enter the world of these ideas through their particular ideological doors, even more progress can be made.

I didn't say that the left is more opposed than the right. I said that both oppose it from different view points.

You said finance opposed it, not corporate law. Corporate law is not finance.

That was in reference to the "investment theory scolds" but ok.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
August 30 2013 19:43 GMT
#8156
On August 31 2013 04:10 farvacola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2013 04:07 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On August 31 2013 03:52 farvacola wrote:
I'm pretty sure Kraakman and Hanssman, two highly lauded figures in corporate law, aren't very discriminating when they say that employees, " should have their interests protected by contractual and regulatory means rather than participation through corporate governance." Your suggestion that the left is opposed more than the right is not given evidence anywhere.

In fact, from the article,

The Rohrbacher-Sanders story suggests that the idea of inclusive capitalism enjoys a kind of ideological ambidextrousness that is promising. If enthusiasts of both the right and the left can refrain from insisting that participants enter the world of these ideas through their particular ideological doors, even more progress can be made.

I didn't say that the left is more opposed than the right. I said that both oppose it from different view points.

You said finance opposed it, not corporate law. Corporate law is not finance.

That was in reference to the "investment theory scolds" but ok.

OK, then revisit my post about diversification.

The article mentioned a few things. The Alaska permanent fund doesn't have a diversification issue (it may, like many sovereign wealth funds have an efficiency issue, however). Workers directly owning the business they work for does have a diversification issue. So as I said, it depends on what you are exactly discussing.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 30 2013 21:14 GMT
#8157
WASHINGTON -- Financial institutions and other enterprises that do business with marijuana shops that are in compliance with state laws are unlikely to be prosecuted for money laundering or other federal crimes that could be brought under existing federal drug laws, a senior Department of Justice official said Thursday.

During a briefing on the department's new policy Thursday, the official would not fully rule out prosecution in any case, but the guidance is a reversal of administration policy that had warned banks not to work with marijuana businesses. The Justice official said that the department recognized that forcing the establishments to operate on a cash basis put them at greater risk of robbery and violence.

A three-page memo that accompanied the Thursday announcement speaks to the situation in more general terms, noting that a well-regulated, legal marijuana industry could come with a number of benefits to public safety and health. After listing a set of federal priorities -- keeping pot away from kids, preventing gangs and cartels from profiting from the drug trade -- the memo, authored by Deputy Attorney General James Cole, suggests that "robust" state regulation of legal marijuana "may affirmatively address those priorities by, for example, implementing effective measures to prevent diversion of marijuana outside of the regulated system and to other states, prohibiting access to marijuana by minors, and replacing an illicit marijuana trade that funds criminal enterprises with a tightly regulated market in which revenues are tracked and account for."


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
August 30 2013 21:35 GMT
#8158
On August 31 2013 03:40 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2013 03:12 farvacola wrote:
I found this really interesting. Definitely check the whole thing out.

One candidate that may be equal to that task is a homely sounding economic noun that separates the wealthy from the rest of us. "Assets" are a seemingly magical set of resources that work for anyone who owns them. In conversations about economic fairness, "assets" are a resource that has largely remained outside the policy tent. President Obama has recently raised expectations about how economic policy might attack the problem of inequality. But he likely won't get that far unless he too is ready to step outside that tent.

Accounting textbooks teach us that there are different categories of assets, both tangible (e.g., land, buildings, housing, corporate stock, minerals) and intangible (e.g., patents, goodwill, copyrights). Wealthy people own lots of these assets. So many that they often forgo that more pedestrian instrument that makes possible the accumulation of income, the paycheck.

Unwealthy people own few, if any, assets. Theirs is wage-dependent, income based universe. They live from paycheck to paycheck. If assets are the key discriminant that sustains the wealthy, why is it that the most commonly invoked solutions to economic inequality tend to focus on income enhancing measures such as minimum wage campaigns, payroll tax credits and job training? That's not where the real money is. One could be forgiven for suspecting a plot. If the general problem of economic inequality could be likened to an overly deep bowl of soup that should be more fairly consumed, income-based solutions attack the challenge with forks. We need spoons, asset spoons. Let's examine a few.

Broad-Based Asset Sharing Strategies

Since 1982 every citizen of the state of Alaska has enjoyed an annual dividend as a return on their share of oil revenues through the Alaska Permanent Fund. Bipartisan support, including from former Republican Gov. Sarah Palin, has protected this asset sharing program for over 30 years. When legislators sought access to a share of Permanent Fund revenue to fund state deficits in 1999, they were rejected by 84 percent of voters. Annual dividend payments have ranged from $331 to $2,069 per Alaskan.

Similar natural resource-based ideas have been proposed but not yet implemented. One would provide all citizens an annual clean air dividend derived from taxing polluters. The "Sky Trust" concept developed by West coast entrepreneur Peter Barnes has also attracted bipartisan support in part because, like the Alaska Permanent Fund, it circumvents government capture and directs revenue immediately to citizens. Sky Trust dividends would be an asset shared by all. Natural resource-based asset sharing concepts have decided advantages: They can help address complex problems such as pollution, and they're easily shared through the common status of citizenship........


The Alternative American Dream: Inclusive Capitalism

And lo did Jonny repeat: "we need the middle class to save and invest moar."

I know there's more to the article than that, but that's really what the suggestions boil down to (admittedly I only skimmed it, but it's a familiar topic).

I've found two political problems with advocating it. Some people, often on the left, don't trust it (finance is icky and frightening). Others, often on the right, are indifferent towards it (who cares so long as someone is investing).


Did we read the same article? I read the author saying how "inclusive capitalism" (aka good-old employee ownership) isn't a dead concept and should be more or less set as a goal for society, but it said nothing of how to get there (though middle class saving would be a means to do it, as would be straight-up redistributive policies).
Bora Pain minha porra!
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 30 2013 22:45 GMT
#8159
How long until I can buy into marijuana alongside the other sin stocks of beer and tobacco?
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
August 30 2013 23:16 GMT
#8160
On August 31 2013 06:35 Sbrubbles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2013 03:40 JonnyBNoHo wrote:
On August 31 2013 03:12 farvacola wrote:
I found this really interesting. Definitely check the whole thing out.

One candidate that may be equal to that task is a homely sounding economic noun that separates the wealthy from the rest of us. "Assets" are a seemingly magical set of resources that work for anyone who owns them. In conversations about economic fairness, "assets" are a resource that has largely remained outside the policy tent. President Obama has recently raised expectations about how economic policy might attack the problem of inequality. But he likely won't get that far unless he too is ready to step outside that tent.

Accounting textbooks teach us that there are different categories of assets, both tangible (e.g., land, buildings, housing, corporate stock, minerals) and intangible (e.g., patents, goodwill, copyrights). Wealthy people own lots of these assets. So many that they often forgo that more pedestrian instrument that makes possible the accumulation of income, the paycheck.

Unwealthy people own few, if any, assets. Theirs is wage-dependent, income based universe. They live from paycheck to paycheck. If assets are the key discriminant that sustains the wealthy, why is it that the most commonly invoked solutions to economic inequality tend to focus on income enhancing measures such as minimum wage campaigns, payroll tax credits and job training? That's not where the real money is. One could be forgiven for suspecting a plot. If the general problem of economic inequality could be likened to an overly deep bowl of soup that should be more fairly consumed, income-based solutions attack the challenge with forks. We need spoons, asset spoons. Let's examine a few.

Broad-Based Asset Sharing Strategies

Since 1982 every citizen of the state of Alaska has enjoyed an annual dividend as a return on their share of oil revenues through the Alaska Permanent Fund. Bipartisan support, including from former Republican Gov. Sarah Palin, has protected this asset sharing program for over 30 years. When legislators sought access to a share of Permanent Fund revenue to fund state deficits in 1999, they were rejected by 84 percent of voters. Annual dividend payments have ranged from $331 to $2,069 per Alaskan.

Similar natural resource-based ideas have been proposed but not yet implemented. One would provide all citizens an annual clean air dividend derived from taxing polluters. The "Sky Trust" concept developed by West coast entrepreneur Peter Barnes has also attracted bipartisan support in part because, like the Alaska Permanent Fund, it circumvents government capture and directs revenue immediately to citizens. Sky Trust dividends would be an asset shared by all. Natural resource-based asset sharing concepts have decided advantages: They can help address complex problems such as pollution, and they're easily shared through the common status of citizenship........


The Alternative American Dream: Inclusive Capitalism

And lo did Jonny repeat: "we need the middle class to save and invest moar."

I know there's more to the article than that, but that's really what the suggestions boil down to (admittedly I only skimmed it, but it's a familiar topic).

I've found two political problems with advocating it. Some people, often on the left, don't trust it (finance is icky and frightening). Others, often on the right, are indifferent towards it (who cares so long as someone is investing).


Did we read the same article? I read the author saying how "inclusive capitalism" (aka good-old employee ownership) isn't a dead concept and should be more or less set as a goal for society, but it said nothing of how to get there (though middle class saving would be a means to do it, as would be straight-up redistributive policies).

Yeah it sure sounds like we read the same article.

"good old employee ownership" is when employees own a large undiversified equity stake in a corporation. My frequent advocacy for the not rich to save more spend less is essentially a simplified version of the same core concept.

I've advocated other policies that move towards the same goal, to mixed reception on this thread.

On August 31 2013 07:45 Danglars wrote:
How long until I can buy into marijuana alongside the other sin stocks of beer and tobacco?


A few years maybe? I've heard that VC's are already in the space, though only on the medicinal and supplier businesses because of the legal issues.
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