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On June 09 2016 03:46 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2016 03:34 Plansix wrote:The report for California alone lumps the majority the cost in education of "children of illegal immigrants" and then include America citizens because their parents are either illegal or became illegal immigrants during the student's life time. And they come to the number by taking the number of estimate students and just multiplying it by the estimated cost. Not the amount spent. The stats for policing are estimated, but they provide no information about their methodology, which is most of the rest of the report as well. Finally, Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is yet aother one of John Tanton's babies. It, like many of his non-profits, have accepted money from groups that promote eugenics, or selective breeding. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2008/john-tanton’s-private-papers-expose-more-20-years-hateAnd the Southern Poverty law center labeled it a hate group. So I find your evidence not very compelling for California. And I don't read the Washington Times. That other government report seems legit, though they seem to be counting all incarcerated illegals that exist, rather than ones entering the system. On June 09 2016 03:34 CorsairHero wrote:On June 09 2016 02:18 Nyxisto wrote:Please not another wall  they're quite effective apparently what's Hillary's plan on securing the border? Reform immigration. Pathway to citizenship. Close privately run detention centers, end family detention. Deport criminals. Standard stuff. Why do you expect her to reform immigration laws? She's from the same team as Obama, if they wanted to reform those laws they would do it, no? I guess you can say that they couldn't because republican Congress didn't allow them but then you can't say she's going to reform immigration because that's not in her power.
People asked for her plans, I looked them up. I am aware of what she can and cannot do with the Oval Office. But the president does introduce laws to congress for their review and provide input into policy. And Obama does enforce immigration laws and they have deported a pretty reasonable number of people.
Some folks seem confused on how elections and goverment work. We discuss what people would like to do and the issues they think are important. If they make it through congress and what version is finally voted on is another matter. But immigration reform is an issue that must be addressed and done so realistically. Not by half baked plans about Walls and mass deportations.
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On June 09 2016 03:47 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2016 03:41 IgnE wrote:On June 09 2016 02:02 oneofthem wrote:On June 09 2016 01:39 IgnE wrote:On June 09 2016 00:35 oneofthem wrote:
the legal structure of a corporation is as you describe. but people have different hats. google's executives may also see themselves as influencing events and affecting history in some way. google's information infrastructure can be useful and they may choose to cooperate with the government in a variety of ways. it is not necessarily nefarious stuff.
youtube and picasa provide communication and digital presence for dissidents, seems fine right? no no, the russian spin is that google is encouraging civil war in syria. google's "dont be evil" might end up looking like stalinist era soviet self-parody in a decade yea they should instead be trying to overthrow the world order because there is no justice outside of communism yeah i guess promoting democracy and privacy is trying to overthrow the liberal globalized world order. you have a point. law enforcement data collection is more terrible than actual threats to democracy and privacy by actual authoritarian states. this is some kind of privacy snobbery on par with the gmo thing.
so its google or the fbi? is your alternatives generating homunculus broken?
the gmo thing is about sustainable and robust agriculture. being fine w democratically mandated labeling of gmo goods is just a consistent position
privacy is about the future of thought. we COULD have an internet structured to preserve anonymity of thought (ie searches, chats) but google and its government colluders want to know what you are thinking. in any case its funny that you even care to make the distinction between google/government as their tendrils just continue to grow around each other
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On June 09 2016 03:56 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2016 03:47 oneofthem wrote:On June 09 2016 03:41 IgnE wrote:On June 09 2016 02:02 oneofthem wrote:On June 09 2016 01:39 IgnE wrote:On June 09 2016 00:35 oneofthem wrote:
the legal structure of a corporation is as you describe. but people have different hats. google's executives may also see themselves as influencing events and affecting history in some way. google's information infrastructure can be useful and they may choose to cooperate with the government in a variety of ways. it is not necessarily nefarious stuff.
youtube and picasa provide communication and digital presence for dissidents, seems fine right? no no, the russian spin is that google is encouraging civil war in syria. google's "dont be evil" might end up looking like stalinist era soviet self-parody in a decade yea they should instead be trying to overthrow the world order because there is no justice outside of communism yeah i guess promoting democracy and privacy is trying to overthrow the liberal globalized world order. you have a point. law enforcement data collection is more terrible than actual threats to democracy and privacy by actual authoritarian states. this is some kind of privacy snobbery on par with the gmo thing. so its google or the fbi? is your alternatives generating homunculus broken? the gmo thing is about sustainable and robust agriculture. being fine w democratically mandated labeling of gmo goods is just a consistent position privacy is about the future of thought. we COULD have an internet structured to preserve anonymity of thought (ie searches, chats) but google and its government colluders want to know what you are thinking. in any case its funny that you even care to make the distinction between google/government as their tendrils just continue to grow around each other
you are jumping too fast here. we were talking about google working with the state department to create more privacy and encryption tools, more open information etc. this is actually a pretty contentious issue between the state department and the intelligence people. the state department helped create and maintain TOR for example.
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On June 09 2016 03:51 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2016 03:44 Nyxisto wrote:On June 09 2016 03:34 CorsairHero wrote:On June 09 2016 02:18 Nyxisto wrote:Please not another wall they're quite effective apparently what's Hillary's plan on securing the border? You can't actually secure any borders. It's like "war on terror", it doesn't actually mean anything. It's a giant dick waving theatre. We can move goods, capital and information around, you'll think we'll stop at people? This is just blatantly wrong.
enlighten me please. The wall is just a giant phallus and the Trump campaign as a whole feels like some kind of suppressed male sexual trauma. Maybe that's why women are so appalled by it. Would probably also explain the 4chan support
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@oneofthem
you might have been talking about that but i wasnt. assange might be a kremlin puppet but that doesnt mean that hes wrong about how google and the state dept are becoming increasingly intertwined. encryption that only we can break for all the rebels is not really a change in policy.
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That article should be required reading on this board. Great insights. It was Bernie the whole time. All the BernieBros and their goonish behavior were simply emulating the leader.
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On June 09 2016 03:55 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2016 03:46 Sent. wrote:On June 09 2016 03:34 Plansix wrote:The report for California alone lumps the majority the cost in education of "children of illegal immigrants" and then include America citizens because their parents are either illegal or became illegal immigrants during the student's life time. And they come to the number by taking the number of estimate students and just multiplying it by the estimated cost. Not the amount spent. The stats for policing are estimated, but they provide no information about their methodology, which is most of the rest of the report as well. Finally, Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is yet aother one of John Tanton's babies. It, like many of his non-profits, have accepted money from groups that promote eugenics, or selective breeding. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2008/john-tanton’s-private-papers-expose-more-20-years-hateAnd the Southern Poverty law center labeled it a hate group. So I find your evidence not very compelling for California. And I don't read the Washington Times. That other government report seems legit, though they seem to be counting all incarcerated illegals that exist, rather than ones entering the system. On June 09 2016 03:34 CorsairHero wrote:On June 09 2016 02:18 Nyxisto wrote:Please not another wall they're quite effective apparently what's Hillary's plan on securing the border? Reform immigration. Pathway to citizenship. Close privately run detention centers, end family detention. Deport criminals. Standard stuff. Why do you expect her to reform immigration laws? She's from the same team as Obama, if they wanted to reform those laws they would do it, no? I guess you can say that they couldn't because republican Congress didn't allow them but then you can't say she's going to reform immigration because that's not in her power. People asked for her plans, I looked them up. I am aware of what she can and cannot do with the Oval Office. But the president does introduce laws to congress for their review and provide input into policy. And Obama does enforce immigration laws and they have deported a pretty reasonable number of people.
It's very clear Obama's priorities are not in America's best interest with regards to immigration.
A new report reveals that President Obama is throwing the weight of the federal government behind a program to secure summer jobs for hundreds of “refugees” brought into the U.S. by the President’s refugee program guided by the United Nations.
The President has unveiled a program he is calling the Summer Opportunity Project, insisting, “Access to a job in the summer and beyond can make all the difference to a young person–especially those who don’t have access to many resources and opportunities.”
Obama is providing $21 million in tax dollars for the program to help American youth find work for the summer, but along with finding jobs for Americans, $2 million of the funds are being earmarked for about 400 “refugees” currently situated in New York.
According to Syracuse.com, the money will be spent to aid the refugees to gain work experience by offering academic tutoring in English and math, as well as finding them part-time jobs.
Obama has done this before, of course. In 2012, the President’s jobs program helped illegals compete with Americans for scare job opportunities.
Further, by 2014 it was discovered that Obamacare offered U.S. firms a $3,000 incentive to hire illegals over Americans.
Last year, it was discovered that Obama was bringing refugees into every state in the country but refusing to tell state governors where he was placing them all.
Meanwhile, a recent report found that many of these refugees Obama is bringing into the country are racked with diseases, especially tuberculosis.
Obama is not working alone on the refugee program. The United Nations is actually the chief agency helping him bring these refugees into the U.S. under the auspices of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/05/18/obama-spending-millions-tax-dollars-summer-jobs-refugees/
Under the president’s new amnesty, businesses will have a $3,000-per-employee incentive to hire illegal immigrants over native-born workers because of a quirk of Obamacare.
President Obama’s temporary amnesty, which lasts three years, declares up to 5 million illegal immigrants to be lawfully in the country and eligible for work permits, but it still deems them ineligible for public benefits such as buying insurance on Obamacare’s health exchanges.
Under the Affordable Care Act, that means businesses who hire them won’t have to pay a penalty for not providing them health coverage — making them $3,000 more attractive than a similar native-born worker, whom the business by law would have to cover.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/nov/25/obama-amnesty-obamacare-clash-businesses-have-3000/
http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-11-18/states-press-white-house-for-details-on-syrian-refugees#sthash.cUSVDVzE.dpuf
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On June 09 2016 04:02 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2016 03:51 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 09 2016 03:44 Nyxisto wrote:On June 09 2016 03:34 CorsairHero wrote:On June 09 2016 02:18 Nyxisto wrote:Please not another wall they're quite effective apparently what's Hillary's plan on securing the border? You can't actually secure any borders. It's like "war on terror", it doesn't actually mean anything. It's a giant dick waving theatre. We can move goods, capital and information around, you'll think we'll stop at people? This is just blatantly wrong. enlighten me please. The wall is just a giant phallus and the Trump campaign as a whole feels like some kind of suppressed male sexual trauma. Maybe that's why women are so appalled by it. Would probably also explain the 4chan support
The first step is admitting you have an illegal alien problem. Illegal aliens who did not respect your laws in the first place, and thus should be given no quarter from them. The rule of law is supremely important, even if you disagree with said law. It's not "a stupid law".
1. Obama deported less people than Bush.
2. Obama added 'turning people away at the border' to deportations.
3. Every single graph shows 'walls work' from the Migrant crisis to Israel to others.
4. The people most affected by illegal immigration are railing against it. The people who live there. You are quite literally the 'ivory tower' smug to not listen to the people on the ground.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On June 09 2016 04:03 IgnE wrote:
@oneofthem
you might have been talking about that but i wasnt. assange might be a kremlin puppet but that doesnt mean that hes wrong about how google and the state dept are becoming increasingly intertwined. encryption that only we can break for all the rebels is not really a change in policy.
i think when you read up about the diplomatic game you'll find that the u.s. response is highly conditioned by actual opposition and enemies. i happen to think that on balance, the u.s. is the major force advancing liberal and democratic ideals worldwide.
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On June 09 2016 04:08 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2016 03:55 Plansix wrote:On June 09 2016 03:46 Sent. wrote:On June 09 2016 03:34 Plansix wrote:The report for California alone lumps the majority the cost in education of "children of illegal immigrants" and then include America citizens because their parents are either illegal or became illegal immigrants during the student's life time. And they come to the number by taking the number of estimate students and just multiplying it by the estimated cost. Not the amount spent. The stats for policing are estimated, but they provide no information about their methodology, which is most of the rest of the report as well. Finally, Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is yet aother one of John Tanton's babies. It, like many of his non-profits, have accepted money from groups that promote eugenics, or selective breeding. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2008/john-tanton’s-private-papers-expose-more-20-years-hateAnd the Southern Poverty law center labeled it a hate group. So I find your evidence not very compelling for California. And I don't read the Washington Times. That other government report seems legit, though they seem to be counting all incarcerated illegals that exist, rather than ones entering the system. On June 09 2016 03:34 CorsairHero wrote:On June 09 2016 02:18 Nyxisto wrote:Please not another wall they're quite effective apparently what's Hillary's plan on securing the border? Reform immigration. Pathway to citizenship. Close privately run detention centers, end family detention. Deport criminals. Standard stuff. Why do you expect her to reform immigration laws? She's from the same team as Obama, if they wanted to reform those laws they would do it, no? I guess you can say that they couldn't because republican Congress didn't allow them but then you can't say she's going to reform immigration because that's not in her power. People asked for her plans, I looked them up. I am aware of what she can and cannot do with the Oval Office. But the president does introduce laws to congress for their review and provide input into policy. And Obama does enforce immigration laws and they have deported a pretty reasonable number of people. It's very clear Obama's priorities are not in America's best interest with regards to immigration. Show nested quote +A new report reveals that President Obama is throwing the weight of the federal government behind a program to secure summer jobs for hundreds of “refugees” brought into the U.S. by the President’s refugee program guided by the United Nations.
The President has unveiled a program he is calling the Summer Opportunity Project, insisting, “Access to a job in the summer and beyond can make all the difference to a young person–especially those who don’t have access to many resources and opportunities.”
Obama is providing $21 million in tax dollars for the program to help American youth find work for the summer, but along with finding jobs for Americans, $2 million of the funds are being earmarked for about 400 “refugees” currently situated in New York.
According to Syracuse.com, the money will be spent to aid the refugees to gain work experience by offering academic tutoring in English and math, as well as finding them part-time jobs.
Obama has done this before, of course. In 2012, the President’s jobs program helped illegals compete with Americans for scare job opportunities.
Further, by 2014 it was discovered that Obamacare offered U.S. firms a $3,000 incentive to hire illegals over Americans.
Last year, it was discovered that Obama was bringing refugees into every state in the country but refusing to tell state governors where he was placing them all.
Meanwhile, a recent report found that many of these refugees Obama is bringing into the country are racked with diseases, especially tuberculosis.
Obama is not working alone on the refugee program. The United Nations is actually the chief agency helping him bring these refugees into the U.S. under the auspices of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/05/18/obama-spending-millions-tax-dollars-summer-jobs-refugees/Show nested quote +Under the president’s new amnesty, businesses will have a $3,000-per-employee incentive to hire illegal immigrants over native-born workers because of a quirk of Obamacare.
President Obama’s temporary amnesty, which lasts three years, declares up to 5 million illegal immigrants to be lawfully in the country and eligible for work permits, but it still deems them ineligible for public benefits such as buying insurance on Obamacare’s health exchanges.
Under the Affordable Care Act, that means businesses who hire them won’t have to pay a penalty for not providing them health coverage — making them $3,000 more attractive than a similar native-born worker, whom the business by law would have to cover. http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/nov/25/obama-amnesty-obamacare-clash-businesses-have-3000/http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-11-18/states-press-white-house-for-details-on-syrian-refugees#sthash.cUSVDVzE.dpuf
I told you I don’t read the Washington Times, that paper is a rag. Same with “pander to racists.com”. And I support Syrian refugees. You have done a poor job at convincing me of anything.
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On June 09 2016 04:02 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2016 03:51 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 09 2016 03:44 Nyxisto wrote:On June 09 2016 03:34 CorsairHero wrote:On June 09 2016 02:18 Nyxisto wrote:Please not another wall they're quite effective apparently what's Hillary's plan on securing the border? You can't actually secure any borders. It's like "war on terror", it doesn't actually mean anything. It's a giant dick waving theatre. We can move goods, capital and information around, you'll think we'll stop at people? This is just blatantly wrong. enlighten me please. The wall is just a giant phallus and the Trump campaign as a whole feels like some kind of suppressed male sexual trauma. Maybe that's why women are so appalled by it. Would probably also explain the 4chan support
I'll ignore your amateur psychology analysis (ironically a trope of 4chan)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_border_barrier
Are you a woman? Why are you speaking for all women like they are all the same? That's very sexist of you to take away their individual autonomy and treat them as a collective hivemind and not a diverse group of people of all political ideologies.
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It's actually just such an incompetent thing to say it's impossible to secure a border and prevent illegal immigration.
Does a wall provide security?
'no'
Where is the common sense in that answer it fucking blows my mind how idiotic it is when people make the argument that a wall would be useless
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Trump is doing abysmally among female voters, I didn't make that up. Outside of his immediate family and some right-wing pundits no woman in the public spotlight is endorsing him. That's not a sexist assumption on my part.
Also the Hungary border thing is a beggar-thy-neighbour policy, it has just moved the problem to Greece and back to Turkey, it hasn't actually solved anything.
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If Greece would start tugging those boats back in the other direction it would solve quite a bit. Just need another wall as well.
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If they turn the boats back, the people on them die. They people of Greece do not want to do that. Their coast guard said they wouldn’t do it even if ordered to.
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Indeed a wall would not be useless. Far from it.
It would incentivize criminalized behavior and empower cartels and human trafficking rings along the border, as studies on the issue have consistently shown.
But in preventing or stemming flows of undocumented migration? It's effectively useless.
At this rate, I'm just going to put together a fully cited post debunking the constant arguments about border security and how illegal immigrants are depressing wages, stealing jobs, and taxing our social services. Because these arguments are getting more and more absurd the more I read them on this thread.
Expect it tomorrow, and you can hold me to this.
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On June 09 2016 04:21 Nyxisto wrote:
Trump is doing abysmally among female voters, I didn't make that up. Outside of his immediate family and some right-wing pundits no woman in the public spotlight is endorsing him. That's not sexism.
Also the Hungary border thing is a beggar-thy-neighbour policy, it has just moved the problem to Greece and back to Turkey, it hasn't actually solved anything.
"I don't see tons of women in the public spotlight supporting Trump so none of them do" is a sexist generalization against women by liberal's own definition of sexism.
So then it becomes Mexico's problem. Mexican citizens are the responsibility of Mexico, not the United States. WHAT A MADMAN!!!
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On June 09 2016 04:28 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Indeed a wall would not be useless. Far from it.
It would incentivize criminalized behavior and empower cartels and human trafficking rings along the border, as studies on the issue have consistently shown.
But in preventing or stemming flows of undocumented migration? It's effectively useless.
It's so counter-intuitive I'd love to hear you try to explain it.
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On June 09 2016 04:21 Nyxisto wrote:
Also the Hungary border thing is a beggar-thy-neighbour policy, it has just moved the problem to Greece and back to Turkey, it hasn't actually solved anything.
They aren't responsible for solving Greece's problems, nor Turkey's. And if Greece is such a bad neighbor that it simply allows hundreds of thousands of unchecked, unknown people to swarm into Hungary, why shouldn't they put up a wall?
In the same way, Latin America's issues with corruption and crime are its own, and we have no obligation to allow unlimited numbers of whoever wants to come here to stay here and make our own country worse for it. That would be absurd.
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EPT
