Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.

Lord Tolkien

United States12083 Posts

May 13 2016 20:55 GMT

#76201

On May 14 2016 05:43 Nyxisto wrote:

Show nested quote +

you won't because it isn't real

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2016/mar/23/hillary-clinton-quotes-Internet-complete/

Can people stop getting their political opinions from memes please?

Not this election cycle.

SolaR-

United States2685 Posts

May 13 2016 20:55 GMT

#76202

A lot of defense attorneys are scum. That doesn't make her immune to criticism when she is running for president.

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

May 13 2016 20:58 GMT

#76203

That doesn’t change the fact that the meme is wrong and the state has the burden of proof. But facts are not really big around here right now.

Nyxisto

Germany6287 Posts

May 13 2016 21:01 GMT

#76204

Also defending the person is literally her job, are you seriously going to criticize a defense attorney for doing what they're supposed to do?

SolaR-

United States2685 Posts

May 13 2016 21:02 GMT

#76205

On May 14 2016 05:58 Plansix wrote:
That doesn’t change the fact that the meme is wrong and the state has the burden of proof. But facts are not really big around here right now.

You are one to talk.

SolaR-

United States2685 Posts

May 13 2016 21:04 GMT

#76206

On May 14 2016 06:01 Nyxisto wrote:
Also defending the person is literally her job, are you seriously going to criticize a defense attorney for doing what they're supposed to do?

Yes of course. Just because it is your job or the "law" doesnt mean it cannot be judged ethically. Ethics go beyond law and career. When you are running for president things like that should be held to the upmost scrunity. I dont know if the meme is true or not but that isn't what i am debating.

Nyxisto

Germany6287 Posts

May 13 2016 21:05 GMT

#76207

What she did was completely ethical. Attorneys are supposed to uphold the law, not moralize their own clients, that's how it works. If a defense attorney brings their personal ethics into it they're a shitty attorney

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

May 13 2016 21:05 GMT

#76208

My fact checking skills have proven to be superior due to my amazing ability to type words into google and then assess the results.

Edit: Pretty sure the legal field involves ethics. Everyone has the right to a defense attorney, since the state has more power that the average citizen. We don’t deny people that because it’s not popular.

GreenHorizons

United States23893 Posts

May 13 2016 21:06 GMT

#76209

I mean the quote isn't accurate but it's pretty much what she said.

The actual quote I presume it's referring to is.

Roy: "How did it turn out"

Hillary: "Oh he plea bargained. I got him off with time served in the county jail, he'd been in the county jail for about 2 months"

She laughed when she talked about how she basically knew he was guilty, but that didn't matter. She knew she set a rapist free and didn't appear to be bothered by it at all. People can take that for what they will. I personally would have a deep sense of anger at the system for helping to destroy a young girls life, more than a sense of pride/ease exposing incompetence within the system in order to free someone you believe to be a child rapist. Suppose that's one of several reasons I'm not a criminal lawyer.

Getting guilty people off or convicting innocent people because of ones ability to make the best legal argument they can strikes me like a legal pyramid scheme. That it's legal and lucrative doesn't get it over the moral and ethical bar for me. Which also happens to be one of my most frequent sources of contention with those on the right (more recently on the left as well). Some seem to think that if something is legal and lucrative than it's basically automatically moral and ethical.

SolaR-

United States2685 Posts

May 13 2016 21:08 GMT

#76210

Wow i actually agree with greenhorizons for once

SK.Testie

Canada11084 Posts

May 13 2016 21:09 GMT

#76211

The memes are used as a counterbalance/outright subversion to complete misrepresentations from the other side as well. Right now rather large corporations are making attacks and false narratives, and memes are one of the only ways people have to fight back. Daily reminder that if people didn't have eyes and ears every Bernie sanders induced riot would have been blamed directly on Trump. Many still blame Trump for it. Some Bernie supporters claim Hillary was the one who sent the rioters posing as Bernies people etc. Tell me that CNN is really, truly, trying to do fair honest reporting that doesn't misrepresent a single candidate. CNN runs a narrative but theirs isn't as overt like Fox.

I noted that afterwards that "these kinds of attacks" will be unimportant. Because people take them all with a grain of salt as they're trying to look more deeply into issues. The actual call in full context is this to my own knowledge. I don't meet a lot of people who say, "what he/she said this? well that's it I'm changing my vote!"
+ Show Spoiler +

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tor00iWUhDQ

And the snopes article to go with it.
http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-freed-child-rapist-laughed-about-it/

But a more damning and accurate description of the Clintons would be Christopher Hitchens take on them. Maybe not this particular video but he's done a few on the Clintons.
+ Show Spoiler +

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

May 13 2016 21:14 GMT

#76212

“I believe that other The Media uses inaccurate, false information, so I’m justified in doing it too." - Internet discussions about politics and most parts of reality.

Nyxisto

Germany6287 Posts

May 13 2016 21:15 GMT

#76213

On May 14 2016 06:06 GreenHorizons wrote:
Getting guilty people off or convicting innocent people because of ones ability to make the best legal argument they can strikes me like a legal pyramid scheme.

No, that's called the state of law. Guilt is established in the court, not before. If the accuser can not provide enough proof then you're not going to be sentenced and that is the morally right thing to do, and your defender better tries their best to defend you because everybody is entitled to a defense.

SK.Testie

Canada11084 Posts

May 13 2016 21:17 GMT

#76214

I'm still waiting for your higher beacons of intellectualism. You attack others without putting skin in the game. Those other intellectuals I listed are still low grade in comparison to whatever you're reading.

Here's something from snopes about her suppressing wages in Haiti. Where she worked with other players in business, economists, to keep the wages suppressed.
http://www.snopes.com/hillary-clinton-suppressed-haitis-minimum-wage/

Really wish Hitchens was alive for this one.

ticklishmusic

United States15977 Posts

May 13 2016 21:17 GMT

#76215

GH would like to continue his story about Hillary being a morally bankrupt individual though

SolaR-

United States2685 Posts

May 13 2016 21:19 GMT

#76216

What about her refering to black people as "super predators"

oBlade

United States6068 Posts

May 13 2016 21:22 GMT

#76217

On May 14 2016 06:05 Nyxisto wrote:
What she did was completely ethical. Attorneys are supposed to uphold the law, not moralize their own clients, that's how it works. If a defense attorney brings their personal ethics into it they're a shitty attorney

It's fair enough to say someone was just doing their job (I'd say that should apply more to something that doesn't involve child rape, for example, Trump's bankruptcies). But she's the one who says she's a feminist and great for women. That invites the scrutiny.