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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On August 13 2013 08:36 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 08:31 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 13 2013 05:25 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 04:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), a longtime member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, recently brushed aside concern that the wildfires currently scorching across his state and causing millions of dollars of damage have anything to do with climate change. In fact, he told constituents at a town hall that "global warming is a total fraud," employed by liberals to "create global government."
In a video captured by Lee Fang of The Nation, Rohrabacher laughed off a claim made last week by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) that the unusual intensity of this year's wildfire season should give rise to a more serious debate about how climate change is affecting the temperature and length of the dry season.
"Just so you'll know, global warming is a total fraud and it's being designed because what you’ve got is you’ve got liberals who get elected at the local level want state government to do the work and let them make the decisions," Rohrabacher said. "Then, at the state level, they want the federal government to do it. And at the federal government, they want to create global government to control all of our lives."
The friendly town hall audience seemed to agree with Rohrabacher's contention that humans were incapable of changing earth's climate, giving a collective chuckle. The congressman then appeared to make an offhand reference to Agenda 21, a set of UN-created sustainable development recommendations that the tea party and other Republicans have put forth as an example of how the government will use the threat of climate change to seize property and control the lives of its citizens. Source Right on Dana! If politicians want the science, they've gotta learn not to leap at every opportunity to label a natural disaster or hot day on climate change. It just backs up even more that climate change is a vehicle for a political agenda first and foremost. Concern about the long term trend comes in second. Right. He didn't just call her out for supposedly using global warming as a political tool. The man specifically said that global warming is a fraud, when there is broad scientific consensus that global warming is in fact occurring. And you conservatives wonder why we mock you so much. Danglars isn't cheering a climate denier, but a conspiracy nut. Do you really want him to respond to you with how lizard people are the real ones in control? I wouldn't address him directly like that. You might just find out how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Everyone already knows how bad it is.
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On August 13 2013 08:36 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 08:31 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 13 2013 05:25 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 04:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), a longtime member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, recently brushed aside concern that the wildfires currently scorching across his state and causing millions of dollars of damage have anything to do with climate change. In fact, he told constituents at a town hall that "global warming is a total fraud," employed by liberals to "create global government."
In a video captured by Lee Fang of The Nation, Rohrabacher laughed off a claim made last week by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) that the unusual intensity of this year's wildfire season should give rise to a more serious debate about how climate change is affecting the temperature and length of the dry season.
"Just so you'll know, global warming is a total fraud and it's being designed because what you’ve got is you’ve got liberals who get elected at the local level want state government to do the work and let them make the decisions," Rohrabacher said. "Then, at the state level, they want the federal government to do it. And at the federal government, they want to create global government to control all of our lives."
The friendly town hall audience seemed to agree with Rohrabacher's contention that humans were incapable of changing earth's climate, giving a collective chuckle. The congressman then appeared to make an offhand reference to Agenda 21, a set of UN-created sustainable development recommendations that the tea party and other Republicans have put forth as an example of how the government will use the threat of climate change to seize property and control the lives of its citizens. Source Right on Dana! If politicians want the science, they've gotta learn not to leap at every opportunity to label a natural disaster or hot day on climate change. It just backs up even more that climate change is a vehicle for a political agenda first and foremost. Concern about the long term trend comes in second. Right. He didn't just call her out for supposedly using global warming as a political tool. The man specifically said that global warming is a fraud, when there is broad scientific consensus that global warming is in fact occurring. And you conservatives wonder why we mock you so much. Danglars isn't cheering a climate denier, but a conspiracy nut. Do you really want him to respond to you with how lizard people are the real ones in control? I wouldn't address him directly like that. You might just find out how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Why not see how deep the rabbit hole goes? I think it would make this thread very interesting  .
edit: Also that was pretty depressing news. I hope that attitude doesn't prevail in general
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On August 13 2013 08:37 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 08:36 DoubleReed wrote:On August 13 2013 08:31 Stratos_speAr wrote:On August 13 2013 05:25 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 04:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), a longtime member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, recently brushed aside concern that the wildfires currently scorching across his state and causing millions of dollars of damage have anything to do with climate change. In fact, he told constituents at a town hall that "global warming is a total fraud," employed by liberals to "create global government."
In a video captured by Lee Fang of The Nation, Rohrabacher laughed off a claim made last week by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) that the unusual intensity of this year's wildfire season should give rise to a more serious debate about how climate change is affecting the temperature and length of the dry season.
"Just so you'll know, global warming is a total fraud and it's being designed because what you’ve got is you’ve got liberals who get elected at the local level want state government to do the work and let them make the decisions," Rohrabacher said. "Then, at the state level, they want the federal government to do it. And at the federal government, they want to create global government to control all of our lives."
The friendly town hall audience seemed to agree with Rohrabacher's contention that humans were incapable of changing earth's climate, giving a collective chuckle. The congressman then appeared to make an offhand reference to Agenda 21, a set of UN-created sustainable development recommendations that the tea party and other Republicans have put forth as an example of how the government will use the threat of climate change to seize property and control the lives of its citizens. Source Right on Dana! If politicians want the science, they've gotta learn not to leap at every opportunity to label a natural disaster or hot day on climate change. It just backs up even more that climate change is a vehicle for a political agenda first and foremost. Concern about the long term trend comes in second. Right. He didn't just call her out for supposedly using global warming as a political tool. The man specifically said that global warming is a fraud, when there is broad scientific consensus that global warming is in fact occurring. And you conservatives wonder why we mock you so much. Danglars isn't cheering a climate denier, but a conspiracy nut. Do you really want him to respond to you with how lizard people are the real ones in control? I wouldn't address him directly like that. You might just find out how deep the rabbit hole goes. Everyone already knows how bad it is.
You only think you know how bad it is.
You know not what you do. You will doom us all!
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United States43674 Posts
On August 13 2013 05:25 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 04:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), a longtime member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, recently brushed aside concern that the wildfires currently scorching across his state and causing millions of dollars of damage have anything to do with climate change. In fact, he told constituents at a town hall that "global warming is a total fraud," employed by liberals to "create global government."
In a video captured by Lee Fang of The Nation, Rohrabacher laughed off a claim made last week by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) that the unusual intensity of this year's wildfire season should give rise to a more serious debate about how climate change is affecting the temperature and length of the dry season.
"Just so you'll know, global warming is a total fraud and it's being designed because what you’ve got is you’ve got liberals who get elected at the local level want state government to do the work and let them make the decisions," Rohrabacher said. "Then, at the state level, they want the federal government to do it. And at the federal government, they want to create global government to control all of our lives."
The friendly town hall audience seemed to agree with Rohrabacher's contention that humans were incapable of changing earth's climate, giving a collective chuckle. The congressman then appeared to make an offhand reference to Agenda 21, a set of UN-created sustainable development recommendations that the tea party and other Republicans have put forth as an example of how the government will use the threat of climate change to seize property and control the lives of its citizens. Source Right on Dana! If politicians want the science, they've gotta learn not to leap at every opportunity to label a natural disaster or hot day on climate change. It just backs up even more that climate change is a vehicle for a political agenda first and foremost. Concern about the long term trend comes in second.
On the other hand, liberals are not out to create a global totalitarian government and labelling their genuine concerns about climate change as such is either retarded or insane. Yes, climate and weather are two different things but let's not go full tin foil on it.
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Former secretary of state Hillary Clinton announced Monday that she will deliver a series of policy-oriented speeches on the topics of transparency and national security and their impact on America's leadership abroad in the "next few months."
Speaking at the American Bar Association's annual meeting in San Francisco, the potential 2016 presidential candidate kicked off the effort on the subject of voting rights, blasting state efforts such as that of Texas, Florida and North Carolina to restrict voting through stringent voter ID laws that passed "often under the cover of addressing the phantom epidemic of 'voter fraud.'"
"Throughout our history we have found too many ways to exclude people from their ownership of the law," Clinton said, delivering a plea to repair the crippled Voting Rights Act.
Clinton's next speech is due to take place in Philadelphia next month, she said.
Source
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On August 13 2013 09:25 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 05:25 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 04:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), a longtime member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, recently brushed aside concern that the wildfires currently scorching across his state and causing millions of dollars of damage have anything to do with climate change. In fact, he told constituents at a town hall that "global warming is a total fraud," employed by liberals to "create global government."
In a video captured by Lee Fang of The Nation, Rohrabacher laughed off a claim made last week by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) that the unusual intensity of this year's wildfire season should give rise to a more serious debate about how climate change is affecting the temperature and length of the dry season.
"Just so you'll know, global warming is a total fraud and it's being designed because what you’ve got is you’ve got liberals who get elected at the local level want state government to do the work and let them make the decisions," Rohrabacher said. "Then, at the state level, they want the federal government to do it. And at the federal government, they want to create global government to control all of our lives."
The friendly town hall audience seemed to agree with Rohrabacher's contention that humans were incapable of changing earth's climate, giving a collective chuckle. The congressman then appeared to make an offhand reference to Agenda 21, a set of UN-created sustainable development recommendations that the tea party and other Republicans have put forth as an example of how the government will use the threat of climate change to seize property and control the lives of its citizens. Source Right on Dana! If politicians want the science, they've gotta learn not to leap at every opportunity to label a natural disaster or hot day on climate change. It just backs up even more that climate change is a vehicle for a political agenda first and foremost. Concern about the long term trend comes in second. On the other hand, liberals are not out to create a global totalitarian government and labelling their genuine concerns about climate change as such is either retarded or insane. Yes, climate and weather are two different things but let's not go full tin foil on it.
Doesn't anyone else find it odd or ironic how pro-environment liberals are more conservative than the conservatives themselves? Instead of maintaining the natural order of things, conservatives would rather unleash businesses and the mob of the free market to decide the fate of the environment. (American)Liberals on the other hand have taken a distinctively conservative tone on this issue, often alluding to humans as sinful, polluting and wasteful, calling for restrictions on behaviour, laws to protect nature and essentially what amounts to anti-(classical)liberal measures to stop the further destruction of the planet. I just find it interesting how the two have flipped roles on this issue (among others).
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United States492 Posts
I wouldn't really say its flipping roles, more so, conservatives protecting business interests at all costs.
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United States23455 Posts
Us NJ residents will be voting in the primary for the Senate special election to replace Senator Lautenberg. Booker's got the Democratic primary in the bag barring some seriously low turnout due to low political efficacy of his voters because of the projected landslide. Holt seems to be the likely runner up given his recent small surge.
Lonegan is supposed to win the Republican primary, and Booker is projected to beat him by a large margin.
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On August 13 2013 11:12 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 09:25 KwarK wrote:On August 13 2013 05:25 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 04:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), a longtime member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, recently brushed aside concern that the wildfires currently scorching across his state and causing millions of dollars of damage have anything to do with climate change. In fact, he told constituents at a town hall that "global warming is a total fraud," employed by liberals to "create global government."
In a video captured by Lee Fang of The Nation, Rohrabacher laughed off a claim made last week by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) that the unusual intensity of this year's wildfire season should give rise to a more serious debate about how climate change is affecting the temperature and length of the dry season.
"Just so you'll know, global warming is a total fraud and it's being designed because what you’ve got is you’ve got liberals who get elected at the local level want state government to do the work and let them make the decisions," Rohrabacher said. "Then, at the state level, they want the federal government to do it. And at the federal government, they want to create global government to control all of our lives."
The friendly town hall audience seemed to agree with Rohrabacher's contention that humans were incapable of changing earth's climate, giving a collective chuckle. The congressman then appeared to make an offhand reference to Agenda 21, a set of UN-created sustainable development recommendations that the tea party and other Republicans have put forth as an example of how the government will use the threat of climate change to seize property and control the lives of its citizens. Source Right on Dana! If politicians want the science, they've gotta learn not to leap at every opportunity to label a natural disaster or hot day on climate change. It just backs up even more that climate change is a vehicle for a political agenda first and foremost. Concern about the long term trend comes in second. On the other hand, liberals are not out to create a global totalitarian government and labelling their genuine concerns about climate change as such is either retarded or insane. Yes, climate and weather are two different things but let's not go full tin foil on it. Doesn't anyone else find it odd or ironic how pro-environment liberals are more conservative than the conservatives themselves? Instead of maintaining the natural order of things, conservatives would rather unleash businesses and the mob of the free market to decide the fate of the environment. (American)Liberals on the other hand have taken a distinctively conservative tone on this issue, often alluding to humans as sinful, polluting and wasteful, calling for restrictions on behaviour, laws to protect nature and essentially what amounts to anti-(classical)liberal measures to stop the further destruction of the planet. I just find it interesting how the two have flipped roles on this issue (among others).
Generally speaking:
Liberals support high personal freedom and low economic freedom.
Conservatives support low personal freedom and high economic freedom.
Statists support low personal freedom and low economic freedom.
Libertarians support high personal freedom and high economic freedom.
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On August 13 2013 11:29 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 11:12 Roe wrote:On August 13 2013 09:25 KwarK wrote:On August 13 2013 05:25 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 04:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), a longtime member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, recently brushed aside concern that the wildfires currently scorching across his state and causing millions of dollars of damage have anything to do with climate change. In fact, he told constituents at a town hall that "global warming is a total fraud," employed by liberals to "create global government."
In a video captured by Lee Fang of The Nation, Rohrabacher laughed off a claim made last week by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) that the unusual intensity of this year's wildfire season should give rise to a more serious debate about how climate change is affecting the temperature and length of the dry season.
"Just so you'll know, global warming is a total fraud and it's being designed because what you’ve got is you’ve got liberals who get elected at the local level want state government to do the work and let them make the decisions," Rohrabacher said. "Then, at the state level, they want the federal government to do it. And at the federal government, they want to create global government to control all of our lives."
The friendly town hall audience seemed to agree with Rohrabacher's contention that humans were incapable of changing earth's climate, giving a collective chuckle. The congressman then appeared to make an offhand reference to Agenda 21, a set of UN-created sustainable development recommendations that the tea party and other Republicans have put forth as an example of how the government will use the threat of climate change to seize property and control the lives of its citizens. Source Right on Dana! If politicians want the science, they've gotta learn not to leap at every opportunity to label a natural disaster or hot day on climate change. It just backs up even more that climate change is a vehicle for a political agenda first and foremost. Concern about the long term trend comes in second. On the other hand, liberals are not out to create a global totalitarian government and labelling their genuine concerns about climate change as such is either retarded or insane. Yes, climate and weather are two different things but let's not go full tin foil on it. Doesn't anyone else find it odd or ironic how pro-environment liberals are more conservative than the conservatives themselves? Instead of maintaining the natural order of things, conservatives would rather unleash businesses and the mob of the free market to decide the fate of the environment. (American)Liberals on the other hand have taken a distinctively conservative tone on this issue, often alluding to humans as sinful, polluting and wasteful, calling for restrictions on behaviour, laws to protect nature and essentially what amounts to anti-(classical)liberal measures to stop the further destruction of the planet. I just find it interesting how the two have flipped roles on this issue (among others). Generally speaking: Liberals support high personal freedom and low economic freedom.
Conservatives support low personal freedom and high economic freedom.
Statists support low personal freedom and high economic freedom.
Libertarians support high personal freedom and low economic freedom.
Wow, that's a pretty ugly graph. And I think you messed up what you wanted to say. Because apparently conservatives and statists are the same, and libertarians and liberals are the same. Although I'm always pretty skeptical of what people mean by "economic freedom." Because it usually means bullshit. So I would just replace "economic freedom" with "bullshit", and that would sound good to me.
I have also noticed the weird switch of roles as well. You'd think conservatives and the religious would be all about Global Warming. It's the apocalypse that they're constantly begging for. They love to go on about how we're all doomed because of gay people and abortion or whatever. But something that actually is apocalyptic somehow doesn't appeal to them at all. How strange. I guess money talks.
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On August 13 2013 11:29 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 11:12 Roe wrote:On August 13 2013 09:25 KwarK wrote:On August 13 2013 05:25 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 04:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), a longtime member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, recently brushed aside concern that the wildfires currently scorching across his state and causing millions of dollars of damage have anything to do with climate change. In fact, he told constituents at a town hall that "global warming is a total fraud," employed by liberals to "create global government."
In a video captured by Lee Fang of The Nation, Rohrabacher laughed off a claim made last week by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) that the unusual intensity of this year's wildfire season should give rise to a more serious debate about how climate change is affecting the temperature and length of the dry season.
"Just so you'll know, global warming is a total fraud and it's being designed because what you’ve got is you’ve got liberals who get elected at the local level want state government to do the work and let them make the decisions," Rohrabacher said. "Then, at the state level, they want the federal government to do it. And at the federal government, they want to create global government to control all of our lives."
The friendly town hall audience seemed to agree with Rohrabacher's contention that humans were incapable of changing earth's climate, giving a collective chuckle. The congressman then appeared to make an offhand reference to Agenda 21, a set of UN-created sustainable development recommendations that the tea party and other Republicans have put forth as an example of how the government will use the threat of climate change to seize property and control the lives of its citizens. Source Right on Dana! If politicians want the science, they've gotta learn not to leap at every opportunity to label a natural disaster or hot day on climate change. It just backs up even more that climate change is a vehicle for a political agenda first and foremost. Concern about the long term trend comes in second. On the other hand, liberals are not out to create a global totalitarian government and labelling their genuine concerns about climate change as such is either retarded or insane. Yes, climate and weather are two different things but let's not go full tin foil on it. Doesn't anyone else find it odd or ironic how pro-environment liberals are more conservative than the conservatives themselves? Instead of maintaining the natural order of things, conservatives would rather unleash businesses and the mob of the free market to decide the fate of the environment. (American)Liberals on the other hand have taken a distinctively conservative tone on this issue, often alluding to humans as sinful, polluting and wasteful, calling for restrictions on behaviour, laws to protect nature and essentially what amounts to anti-(classical)liberal measures to stop the further destruction of the planet. I just find it interesting how the two have flipped roles on this issue (among others). Generally speaking: Liberals support high personal freedom and low economic freedom.
Conservatives support low personal freedom and high economic freedom.
Statists support low personal freedom and high economic freedom.
Libertarians support high personal freedom and low economic freedom.
I would think that libertarians rank pretty high on the economic freedom front.
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On August 13 2013 11:29 sunprince wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 11:12 Roe wrote:On August 13 2013 09:25 KwarK wrote:On August 13 2013 05:25 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 04:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), a longtime member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, recently brushed aside concern that the wildfires currently scorching across his state and causing millions of dollars of damage have anything to do with climate change. In fact, he told constituents at a town hall that "global warming is a total fraud," employed by liberals to "create global government."
In a video captured by Lee Fang of The Nation, Rohrabacher laughed off a claim made last week by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) that the unusual intensity of this year's wildfire season should give rise to a more serious debate about how climate change is affecting the temperature and length of the dry season.
"Just so you'll know, global warming is a total fraud and it's being designed because what you’ve got is you’ve got liberals who get elected at the local level want state government to do the work and let them make the decisions," Rohrabacher said. "Then, at the state level, they want the federal government to do it. And at the federal government, they want to create global government to control all of our lives."
The friendly town hall audience seemed to agree with Rohrabacher's contention that humans were incapable of changing earth's climate, giving a collective chuckle. The congressman then appeared to make an offhand reference to Agenda 21, a set of UN-created sustainable development recommendations that the tea party and other Republicans have put forth as an example of how the government will use the threat of climate change to seize property and control the lives of its citizens. Source Right on Dana! If politicians want the science, they've gotta learn not to leap at every opportunity to label a natural disaster or hot day on climate change. It just backs up even more that climate change is a vehicle for a political agenda first and foremost. Concern about the long term trend comes in second. On the other hand, liberals are not out to create a global totalitarian government and labelling their genuine concerns about climate change as such is either retarded or insane. Yes, climate and weather are two different things but let's not go full tin foil on it. Doesn't anyone else find it odd or ironic how pro-environment liberals are more conservative than the conservatives themselves? Instead of maintaining the natural order of things, conservatives would rather unleash businesses and the mob of the free market to decide the fate of the environment. (American)Liberals on the other hand have taken a distinctively conservative tone on this issue, often alluding to humans as sinful, polluting and wasteful, calling for restrictions on behaviour, laws to protect nature and essentially what amounts to anti-(classical)liberal measures to stop the further destruction of the planet. I just find it interesting how the two have flipped roles on this issue (among others). Generally speaking: Liberals support high personal freedom and low economic freedom.
Conservatives support low personal freedom and high economic freedom.
Statists support low personal freedom and high economic freedom.
Libertarians support high personal freedom and low economic freedom.
I think it's supposed to read:
Liberals support high personal freedom and low economic freedom.
Conservatives support low personal freedom and high economic freedom.
Statists support low personal freedom and low economic freedom.
Libertarians support high personal freedom and high economic freedom.
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On August 13 2013 11:49 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 11:29 sunprince wrote:On August 13 2013 11:12 Roe wrote:On August 13 2013 09:25 KwarK wrote:On August 13 2013 05:25 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 04:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), a longtime member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, recently brushed aside concern that the wildfires currently scorching across his state and causing millions of dollars of damage have anything to do with climate change. In fact, he told constituents at a town hall that "global warming is a total fraud," employed by liberals to "create global government."
In a video captured by Lee Fang of The Nation, Rohrabacher laughed off a claim made last week by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) that the unusual intensity of this year's wildfire season should give rise to a more serious debate about how climate change is affecting the temperature and length of the dry season.
"Just so you'll know, global warming is a total fraud and it's being designed because what you’ve got is you’ve got liberals who get elected at the local level want state government to do the work and let them make the decisions," Rohrabacher said. "Then, at the state level, they want the federal government to do it. And at the federal government, they want to create global government to control all of our lives."
The friendly town hall audience seemed to agree with Rohrabacher's contention that humans were incapable of changing earth's climate, giving a collective chuckle. The congressman then appeared to make an offhand reference to Agenda 21, a set of UN-created sustainable development recommendations that the tea party and other Republicans have put forth as an example of how the government will use the threat of climate change to seize property and control the lives of its citizens. Source Right on Dana! If politicians want the science, they've gotta learn not to leap at every opportunity to label a natural disaster or hot day on climate change. It just backs up even more that climate change is a vehicle for a political agenda first and foremost. Concern about the long term trend comes in second. On the other hand, liberals are not out to create a global totalitarian government and labelling their genuine concerns about climate change as such is either retarded or insane. Yes, climate and weather are two different things but let's not go full tin foil on it. Doesn't anyone else find it odd or ironic how pro-environment liberals are more conservative than the conservatives themselves? Instead of maintaining the natural order of things, conservatives would rather unleash businesses and the mob of the free market to decide the fate of the environment. (American)Liberals on the other hand have taken a distinctively conservative tone on this issue, often alluding to humans as sinful, polluting and wasteful, calling for restrictions on behaviour, laws to protect nature and essentially what amounts to anti-(classical)liberal measures to stop the further destruction of the planet. I just find it interesting how the two have flipped roles on this issue (among others). Generally speaking: Liberals support high personal freedom and low economic freedom.
Conservatives support low personal freedom and high economic freedom.
Statists support low personal freedom and high economic freedom.
Libertarians support high personal freedom and low economic freedom. I think it's supposed to read: Liberals support high personal freedom and low economic freedom. Conservatives support low personal freedom and high economic freedom. Statists support low personal freedom and low economic freedom. Libertarians support high personal freedom and high economic freedom.
So my version would be:
Liberals support high personal freedom and low bullshit.
Conservatives support low personal freedom and high bullshit.
Statists support low personal freedom and low bullshit.
Libertarians support high personal freedom and high bullshit.
That reads way better. Not that I'm biased or anything <.< >.>
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On August 13 2013 09:25 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 05:25 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 04:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), a longtime member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, recently brushed aside concern that the wildfires currently scorching across his state and causing millions of dollars of damage have anything to do with climate change. In fact, he told constituents at a town hall that "global warming is a total fraud," employed by liberals to "create global government."
In a video captured by Lee Fang of The Nation, Rohrabacher laughed off a claim made last week by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) that the unusual intensity of this year's wildfire season should give rise to a more serious debate about how climate change is affecting the temperature and length of the dry season.
"Just so you'll know, global warming is a total fraud and it's being designed because what you’ve got is you’ve got liberals who get elected at the local level want state government to do the work and let them make the decisions," Rohrabacher said. "Then, at the state level, they want the federal government to do it. And at the federal government, they want to create global government to control all of our lives."
The friendly town hall audience seemed to agree with Rohrabacher's contention that humans were incapable of changing earth's climate, giving a collective chuckle. The congressman then appeared to make an offhand reference to Agenda 21, a set of UN-created sustainable development recommendations that the tea party and other Republicans have put forth as an example of how the government will use the threat of climate change to seize property and control the lives of its citizens. Source Right on Dana! If politicians want the science, they've gotta learn not to leap at every opportunity to label a natural disaster or hot day on climate change. It just backs up even more that climate change is a vehicle for a political agenda first and foremost. Concern about the long term trend comes in second. On the other hand, liberals are not out to create a global totalitarian government and labelling their genuine concerns about climate change as such is either retarded or insane. Yes, climate and weather are two different things but let's not go full tin foil on it.
I don't think the American liberals aim to create that government. I stand by what I originally said. There is a political bent to the environmentalist addressing of climate change. It is politics first, it is big government first (soft tyranny, not overtly totalitarian). This is seen in the modern addressing of climate change. You have a wildfire, climate change. You have a hurricane, climate change. You have a decade of slowed temperature increase, it's just a pause before more climate change. The genuinely concerned are not those with the power with the microphones these days. It's agenda driven and it's getting more and more obvious.
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On August 13 2013 12:06 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 09:25 KwarK wrote:On August 13 2013 05:25 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 04:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), a longtime member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, recently brushed aside concern that the wildfires currently scorching across his state and causing millions of dollars of damage have anything to do with climate change. In fact, he told constituents at a town hall that "global warming is a total fraud," employed by liberals to "create global government."
In a video captured by Lee Fang of The Nation, Rohrabacher laughed off a claim made last week by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) that the unusual intensity of this year's wildfire season should give rise to a more serious debate about how climate change is affecting the temperature and length of the dry season.
"Just so you'll know, global warming is a total fraud and it's being designed because what you’ve got is you’ve got liberals who get elected at the local level want state government to do the work and let them make the decisions," Rohrabacher said. "Then, at the state level, they want the federal government to do it. And at the federal government, they want to create global government to control all of our lives."
The friendly town hall audience seemed to agree with Rohrabacher's contention that humans were incapable of changing earth's climate, giving a collective chuckle. The congressman then appeared to make an offhand reference to Agenda 21, a set of UN-created sustainable development recommendations that the tea party and other Republicans have put forth as an example of how the government will use the threat of climate change to seize property and control the lives of its citizens. Source Right on Dana! If politicians want the science, they've gotta learn not to leap at every opportunity to label a natural disaster or hot day on climate change. It just backs up even more that climate change is a vehicle for a political agenda first and foremost. Concern about the long term trend comes in second. On the other hand, liberals are not out to create a global totalitarian government and labelling their genuine concerns about climate change as such is either retarded or insane. Yes, climate and weather are two different things but let's not go full tin foil on it. I don't think the American liberals aim to create that government. I stand by what I originally said. There is a political bent to the environmentalist addressing of climate change. It is politics first, it is big government first (soft tyranny, not overtly totalitarian). This is seen in the modern addressing of climate change. You have a wildfire, climate change. You have a hurricane, climate change. You have a decade of slowed temperature increase, it's just a pause before more climate change. The genuinely concerned are not those with the power with the microphones these days. It's agenda driven and it's getting more and more obvious.
Actually you have 97% of scientists and decades of data analyzed. What you describe in this paragraph is in fact what conservatives usually pull: "Look at this snowstorm! Global warming is a hoax, don't liberals feel how cold it is today?" A lot of what you say is just blatantly made up from your own ...paranoia for lack of a better word. Addressing every issue as if it were climate change is nothing but your own mind's doing. Corporate media will always go for sensationalism and LCD sellers, but that doesn't demerit the environmentalists' and scientists' arguments and theories on climate change. Also who else would you expect to be bent towards addressing climate change, industrialists? Naming it political doesn't do anything, since nearly everything is political. Especially a topic like this. How could you avoid any politics when the right caters to business and industry without question and willfully ignores facts that result in their financial loss?
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On August 13 2013 11:12 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 09:25 KwarK wrote:On August 13 2013 05:25 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 04:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), a longtime member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, recently brushed aside concern that the wildfires currently scorching across his state and causing millions of dollars of damage have anything to do with climate change. In fact, he told constituents at a town hall that "global warming is a total fraud," employed by liberals to "create global government."
In a video captured by Lee Fang of The Nation, Rohrabacher laughed off a claim made last week by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) that the unusual intensity of this year's wildfire season should give rise to a more serious debate about how climate change is affecting the temperature and length of the dry season.
"Just so you'll know, global warming is a total fraud and it's being designed because what you’ve got is you’ve got liberals who get elected at the local level want state government to do the work and let them make the decisions," Rohrabacher said. "Then, at the state level, they want the federal government to do it. And at the federal government, they want to create global government to control all of our lives."
The friendly town hall audience seemed to agree with Rohrabacher's contention that humans were incapable of changing earth's climate, giving a collective chuckle. The congressman then appeared to make an offhand reference to Agenda 21, a set of UN-created sustainable development recommendations that the tea party and other Republicans have put forth as an example of how the government will use the threat of climate change to seize property and control the lives of its citizens. Source Right on Dana! If politicians want the science, they've gotta learn not to leap at every opportunity to label a natural disaster or hot day on climate change. It just backs up even more that climate change is a vehicle for a political agenda first and foremost. Concern about the long term trend comes in second. On the other hand, liberals are not out to create a global totalitarian government and labelling their genuine concerns about climate change as such is either retarded or insane. Yes, climate and weather are two different things but let's not go full tin foil on it. Doesn't anyone else find it odd or ironic how pro-environment liberals are more conservative than the conservatives themselves? Instead of maintaining the natural order of things, conservatives would rather unleash businesses and the mob of the free market to decide the fate of the environment. (American)Liberals on the other hand have taken a distinctively conservative tone on this issue, often alluding to humans as sinful, polluting and wasteful, calling for restrictions on behaviour, laws to protect nature and essentially what amounts to anti-(classical)liberal measures to stop the further destruction of the planet. I just find it interesting how the two have flipped roles on this issue (among others).
I don't think that's the case. I think that all but the most hardcore hippies advocate for clean technology as opposed to just any technology at all.
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On August 13 2013 13:08 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 12:06 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 09:25 KwarK wrote:On August 13 2013 05:25 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 04:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), a longtime member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, recently brushed aside concern that the wildfires currently scorching across his state and causing millions of dollars of damage have anything to do with climate change. In fact, he told constituents at a town hall that "global warming is a total fraud," employed by liberals to "create global government."
In a video captured by Lee Fang of The Nation, Rohrabacher laughed off a claim made last week by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) that the unusual intensity of this year's wildfire season should give rise to a more serious debate about how climate change is affecting the temperature and length of the dry season.
"Just so you'll know, global warming is a total fraud and it's being designed because what you’ve got is you’ve got liberals who get elected at the local level want state government to do the work and let them make the decisions," Rohrabacher said. "Then, at the state level, they want the federal government to do it. And at the federal government, they want to create global government to control all of our lives."
The friendly town hall audience seemed to agree with Rohrabacher's contention that humans were incapable of changing earth's climate, giving a collective chuckle. The congressman then appeared to make an offhand reference to Agenda 21, a set of UN-created sustainable development recommendations that the tea party and other Republicans have put forth as an example of how the government will use the threat of climate change to seize property and control the lives of its citizens. Source Right on Dana! If politicians want the science, they've gotta learn not to leap at every opportunity to label a natural disaster or hot day on climate change. It just backs up even more that climate change is a vehicle for a political agenda first and foremost. Concern about the long term trend comes in second. On the other hand, liberals are not out to create a global totalitarian government and labelling their genuine concerns about climate change as such is either retarded or insane. Yes, climate and weather are two different things but let's not go full tin foil on it. I don't think the American liberals aim to create that government. I stand by what I originally said. There is a political bent to the environmentalist addressing of climate change. It is politics first, it is big government first (soft tyranny, not overtly totalitarian). This is seen in the modern addressing of climate change. You have a wildfire, climate change. You have a hurricane, climate change. You have a decade of slowed temperature increase, it's just a pause before more climate change. The genuinely concerned are not those with the power with the microphones these days. It's agenda driven and it's getting more and more obvious. Actually you have 97% of scientists and decades of data analyzed. What you describe in this paragraph is in fact what conservatives usually pull: "Look at this snowstorm! Global warming is a hoax, don't liberals feel how cold it is today?" A lot of what you say is just blatantly made up from your own ...paranoia for lack of a better word. Addressing every issue as if it were climate change is nothing but your own mind's doing. Corporate media will always go for sensationalism and LCD sellers, but that doesn't demerit the environmentalists' and scientists' arguments and theories on climate change. Also who else would you expect to be bent towards addressing climate change, industrialists? Naming it political doesn't do anything, since nearly everything is political. Especially a topic like this. How could you avoid any politics when the right caters to business and industry without question and willfully ignores facts that result in their financial loss?
Senator Barbara Boxer said Thursday that wildfires like the fast-moving Silver Fire should be a wake-up call to the reality of climate change.
The Silver Fire near Banning grew to 14,000 acres Thursday and prompted additional mandatory evacuations. It was 20 percent contained as of Thursday evening.
A second wildfire near Wrightwood erupted Thursday around 1p.m., prompting mandatory evacuation of roughly 75 homes.
“Warmer temperatures combined with long dry seasons have resulted in more severe wildfires, and it’s only going to get worse,” said Boxer, who toured the fire site with officials Thursday. “They will tell you, the wildfire season is starting earlier, it’s ending later.”
The left has no privileged place in this debate. They leap to the conclusions I just mentioned. Wildfire, climate change. First politics, then science. I'm still waiting for climate change activists to follow the science and not their agenda.source
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On August 13 2013 13:08 Roe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 12:06 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 09:25 KwarK wrote:On August 13 2013 05:25 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 04:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), a longtime member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, recently brushed aside concern that the wildfires currently scorching across his state and causing millions of dollars of damage have anything to do with climate change. In fact, he told constituents at a town hall that "global warming is a total fraud," employed by liberals to "create global government."
In a video captured by Lee Fang of The Nation, Rohrabacher laughed off a claim made last week by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) that the unusual intensity of this year's wildfire season should give rise to a more serious debate about how climate change is affecting the temperature and length of the dry season.
"Just so you'll know, global warming is a total fraud and it's being designed because what you’ve got is you’ve got liberals who get elected at the local level want state government to do the work and let them make the decisions," Rohrabacher said. "Then, at the state level, they want the federal government to do it. And at the federal government, they want to create global government to control all of our lives."
The friendly town hall audience seemed to agree with Rohrabacher's contention that humans were incapable of changing earth's climate, giving a collective chuckle. The congressman then appeared to make an offhand reference to Agenda 21, a set of UN-created sustainable development recommendations that the tea party and other Republicans have put forth as an example of how the government will use the threat of climate change to seize property and control the lives of its citizens. Source Right on Dana! If politicians want the science, they've gotta learn not to leap at every opportunity to label a natural disaster or hot day on climate change. It just backs up even more that climate change is a vehicle for a political agenda first and foremost. Concern about the long term trend comes in second. On the other hand, liberals are not out to create a global totalitarian government and labelling their genuine concerns about climate change as such is either retarded or insane. Yes, climate and weather are two different things but let's not go full tin foil on it. I don't think the American liberals aim to create that government. I stand by what I originally said. There is a political bent to the environmentalist addressing of climate change. It is politics first, it is big government first (soft tyranny, not overtly totalitarian). This is seen in the modern addressing of climate change. You have a wildfire, climate change. You have a hurricane, climate change. You have a decade of slowed temperature increase, it's just a pause before more climate change. The genuinely concerned are not those with the power with the microphones these days. It's agenda driven and it's getting more and more obvious. Actually you have 97% of scientists and decades of data analyzed. What you describe in this paragraph is in fact what conservatives usually pull: "Look at this snowstorm! Global warming is a hoax, don't liberals feel how cold it is today?" A lot of what you say is just blatantly made up from your own ...paranoia for lack of a better word. Addressing every issue as if it were climate change is nothing but your own mind's doing. Corporate media will always go for sensationalism and LCD sellers, but that doesn't demerit the environmentalists' and scientists' arguments and theories on climate change. Also who else would you expect to be bent towards addressing climate change, industrialists? Naming it political doesn't do anything, since nearly everything is political. Especially a topic like this. How could you avoid any politics when the right caters to business and industry without question and willfully ignores facts that result in their financial loss?
What?
Anyways, the left tends to assume that the uncertainties regarding climate change are true (anthropomorphic climate change will cause massive economic and ecological harm) and therefore suffers from confirmation bias whenever it is hot out.
The right largely does the opposite. A lot of older conservatives remember when scientists were warning of global cooling, and so they're skeptical that this latest fear is just the latest bunk.
Others (and I fall closer to this category) are skeptical over what the data actually says (how much warming?) and therefore are skeptical over the public policy solutions.
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On August 13 2013 13:27 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 13:08 Roe wrote:On August 13 2013 12:06 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 09:25 KwarK wrote:On August 13 2013 05:25 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 04:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), a longtime member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, recently brushed aside concern that the wildfires currently scorching across his state and causing millions of dollars of damage have anything to do with climate change. In fact, he told constituents at a town hall that "global warming is a total fraud," employed by liberals to "create global government."
In a video captured by Lee Fang of The Nation, Rohrabacher laughed off a claim made last week by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) that the unusual intensity of this year's wildfire season should give rise to a more serious debate about how climate change is affecting the temperature and length of the dry season.
"Just so you'll know, global warming is a total fraud and it's being designed because what you’ve got is you’ve got liberals who get elected at the local level want state government to do the work and let them make the decisions," Rohrabacher said. "Then, at the state level, they want the federal government to do it. And at the federal government, they want to create global government to control all of our lives."
The friendly town hall audience seemed to agree with Rohrabacher's contention that humans were incapable of changing earth's climate, giving a collective chuckle. The congressman then appeared to make an offhand reference to Agenda 21, a set of UN-created sustainable development recommendations that the tea party and other Republicans have put forth as an example of how the government will use the threat of climate change to seize property and control the lives of its citizens. Source Right on Dana! If politicians want the science, they've gotta learn not to leap at every opportunity to label a natural disaster or hot day on climate change. It just backs up even more that climate change is a vehicle for a political agenda first and foremost. Concern about the long term trend comes in second. On the other hand, liberals are not out to create a global totalitarian government and labelling their genuine concerns about climate change as such is either retarded or insane. Yes, climate and weather are two different things but let's not go full tin foil on it. I don't think the American liberals aim to create that government. I stand by what I originally said. There is a political bent to the environmentalist addressing of climate change. It is politics first, it is big government first (soft tyranny, not overtly totalitarian). This is seen in the modern addressing of climate change. You have a wildfire, climate change. You have a hurricane, climate change. You have a decade of slowed temperature increase, it's just a pause before more climate change. The genuinely concerned are not those with the power with the microphones these days. It's agenda driven and it's getting more and more obvious. Actually you have 97% of scientists and decades of data analyzed. What you describe in this paragraph is in fact what conservatives usually pull: "Look at this snowstorm! Global warming is a hoax, don't liberals feel how cold it is today?" A lot of what you say is just blatantly made up from your own ...paranoia for lack of a better word. Addressing every issue as if it were climate change is nothing but your own mind's doing. Corporate media will always go for sensationalism and LCD sellers, but that doesn't demerit the environmentalists' and scientists' arguments and theories on climate change. Also who else would you expect to be bent towards addressing climate change, industrialists? Naming it political doesn't do anything, since nearly everything is political. Especially a topic like this. How could you avoid any politics when the right caters to business and industry without question and willfully ignores facts that result in their financial loss? Show nested quote +Senator Barbara Boxer said Thursday that wildfires like the fast-moving Silver Fire should be a wake-up call to the reality of climate change.
The Silver Fire near Banning grew to 14,000 acres Thursday and prompted additional mandatory evacuations. It was 20 percent contained as of Thursday evening.
A second wildfire near Wrightwood erupted Thursday around 1p.m., prompting mandatory evacuation of roughly 75 homes.
“Warmer temperatures combined with long dry seasons have resulted in more severe wildfires, and it’s only going to get worse,” said Boxer, who toured the fire site with officials Thursday. “They will tell you, the wildfire season is starting earlier, it’s ending later.” The left has no privileged place in this debate. They leap to the conclusions I just mentioned. Wildfire, climate change. First politics, then science. I'm still waiting for climate change activists to follow the science and not their agenda. source
Well, you're just leaping to conclusions about "the left" now aren't you? I mean really, give me a source that condemns the entire left to this one reaction. You took a random news story from some local LA affiliate about comments made by one senator. Be serious. And I already told you, there's no escaping politics. The issue will be political since a great deal of the world is at stake.
I'd like to hear your actual argument against wildfires being more frequent due to global warming. Do you have any evidence that shows it was more humid in that region? Do you have "the science" that we can all "follow"?
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On August 13 2013 13:38 JonnyBNoHo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 13:08 Roe wrote:On August 13 2013 12:06 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 09:25 KwarK wrote:On August 13 2013 05:25 Danglars wrote:On August 13 2013 04:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), a longtime member of the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, recently brushed aside concern that the wildfires currently scorching across his state and causing millions of dollars of damage have anything to do with climate change. In fact, he told constituents at a town hall that "global warming is a total fraud," employed by liberals to "create global government."
In a video captured by Lee Fang of The Nation, Rohrabacher laughed off a claim made last week by Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) that the unusual intensity of this year's wildfire season should give rise to a more serious debate about how climate change is affecting the temperature and length of the dry season.
"Just so you'll know, global warming is a total fraud and it's being designed because what you’ve got is you’ve got liberals who get elected at the local level want state government to do the work and let them make the decisions," Rohrabacher said. "Then, at the state level, they want the federal government to do it. And at the federal government, they want to create global government to control all of our lives."
The friendly town hall audience seemed to agree with Rohrabacher's contention that humans were incapable of changing earth's climate, giving a collective chuckle. The congressman then appeared to make an offhand reference to Agenda 21, a set of UN-created sustainable development recommendations that the tea party and other Republicans have put forth as an example of how the government will use the threat of climate change to seize property and control the lives of its citizens. Source Right on Dana! If politicians want the science, they've gotta learn not to leap at every opportunity to label a natural disaster or hot day on climate change. It just backs up even more that climate change is a vehicle for a political agenda first and foremost. Concern about the long term trend comes in second. On the other hand, liberals are not out to create a global totalitarian government and labelling their genuine concerns about climate change as such is either retarded or insane. Yes, climate and weather are two different things but let's not go full tin foil on it. I don't think the American liberals aim to create that government. I stand by what I originally said. There is a political bent to the environmentalist addressing of climate change. It is politics first, it is big government first (soft tyranny, not overtly totalitarian). This is seen in the modern addressing of climate change. You have a wildfire, climate change. You have a hurricane, climate change. You have a decade of slowed temperature increase, it's just a pause before more climate change. The genuinely concerned are not those with the power with the microphones these days. It's agenda driven and it's getting more and more obvious. Actually you have 97% of scientists and decades of data analyzed. What you describe in this paragraph is in fact what conservatives usually pull: "Look at this snowstorm! Global warming is a hoax, don't liberals feel how cold it is today?" A lot of what you say is just blatantly made up from your own ...paranoia for lack of a better word. Addressing every issue as if it were climate change is nothing but your own mind's doing. Corporate media will always go for sensationalism and LCD sellers, but that doesn't demerit the environmentalists' and scientists' arguments and theories on climate change. Also who else would you expect to be bent towards addressing climate change, industrialists? Naming it political doesn't do anything, since nearly everything is political. Especially a topic like this. How could you avoid any politics when the right caters to business and industry without question and willfully ignores facts that result in their financial loss? What?
Not sure what you're asking for. Business and industry will make a political fuss when they are going to be restrained.
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EPT
