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On April 15 2016 10:49 ticklishmusic wrote: I can't believe the superpredator thing is still being brought up out of context
zzz
The context doesn't make it better. To be clear Bill specifically called a young child a super predator. At the time Bernie was saying we need to look at and address what leads a 13 yo to kill, while the Clintons were saying we need "to bring them to heel"
Bill made it clear they weren't talking about cartels or any of that stuff, they were talking about desperate young black children.
Most importantly the whole "we'll look at how they got here" part never happened, most certainly not at the Clinton's urging.
On April 15 2016 10:49 ticklishmusic wrote: I can't believe the superpredator thing is still being brought up out of context
zzz
The context doesn't make it better. To be clear Bill specifically called a young child a super predator. At the time Bernie was saying we need to look at and address what leads a 13 yo to kill, while the Clintons were saying we need "to bring them to heel"
Bill made it clear they weren't talking about cartels or any of that stuff, they were talking about desperate young black children.
Desperate young black children who were murdering each other in the streets...
Yes, the law had some seriously awful side effects, but ignoring the crime wave wasn't a good idea either.
If 13 year olds are being violent, what does it matter that they are children? Violence needs to be stopped. Violence has a victim and can't just be let continue. It's important to address causes of shit like that, but it is also important to protect people.
On April 15 2016 10:49 ticklishmusic wrote: I can't believe the superpredator thing is still being brought up out of context
zzz
The context doesn't make it better. To be clear Bill specifically called a young child a super predator. At the time Bernie was saying we need to look at and address what leads a 13 yo to kill, while the Clintons were saying we need "to bring them to heel"
Bill made it clear they weren't talking about cartels or any of that stuff, they were talking about desperate young black children.
"They are not just gangs of kids anymore. They are often the kinds of kids that are called ‘superpredators.’ No conscience, no empathy. We can talk about why they ended up that way, but first we have to bring them to heel,"
Is the phrasing great? No. But she's very clearly referring to kids who have no conscience or empathy, not black kids as a whole.
On April 15 2016 10:49 ticklishmusic wrote: I can't believe the superpredator thing is still being brought up out of context
zzz
"It's not just gangs of kids anymore. They're often the kinds of kid that are called superpredators. No conscience, no empathy - we can talk about why they ended up that way but first we have to bring them to heel."
"We do have institutionalized racism".
How much context do you need?
edit: ^ wow.. Because obviously, she was talking about influenza teens. edit2: i'm responding to what you wrote before you edited it out.
she is talking about black kids without empathy or conscience. that is the key part.
anyways, i'm glad you brought up the affluenza teen. it doesn't matter he was a teen or he had some ridiculous wealth-induced lack of conscience. he murdered people. he gets punished for that. same thing as the specific group of black kids she mentioned. if you are in a shitty situation, we do try to take that into account, but at the end of the day if you have committed a crime or done something wrong you pay for it. I am totally for prison being about rehabilitation as well as doing time, but doing time still needs to be done.
On April 15 2016 10:58 ticklishmusic wrote: you mean teens with the common cold?
My bad, where i live stupid shit like that wouldn't fly, so i didn't bother to look it up beforehand. But cute that you need to go that way to try and refute what i said. Obviously we're talking affluenza.
she is talking about black kids without empathy or conscience. that is the key part.
No, the key part is that she (as you put it) very clearly says that those black kids in gangs often are superpredators. Implying that those kids in gangs often are without conscience or empathy.
edit: btw, i'd love to see presidential campaigners to respond/debate to that affluenza case. Would be interesting to see what they have to say to the fact that you can pretty much buy justice.
On April 15 2016 10:58 ticklishmusic wrote: you mean teens with the common cold?
she is talking about black kids without empathy or conscience. that is the key part.
Yeah because the rational response to children who have been so abused that they have allegedly lost their empathy is to throw them in prison indefinitely while cutting budgets that would give them a shred of hope at being a citizen when they have served their time.
I'm sorry but there is just no defending their comments or positions on this.
On April 15 2016 10:58 ticklishmusic wrote: you mean teens with the common cold?
she is talking about black kids without empathy or conscience. that is the key part.
Yeah because the rational response to children who have been so abused that they have allegedly lost their empathy is to throw them in prison indefinitely while cutting budgets that would give them a shred of hope at being a citizen when they have served their time.
I'm sorry but there is just no defending their comments or positions on this.
Violence is being committed. Innocent people are being killed at that moment. It makes sense to prioritize stopping that as soon as possible.
She didn't said to toss them in prison and throw away the key.
Yeah I can't defend a strawman.
Edit: m4ini, I added a little more to my earlier answer. I edit a lot because I tend to forumpost kind of stream of consciousness, it's not to hide anything
On April 15 2016 10:58 ticklishmusic wrote: you mean teens with the common cold?
My bad, where i live stupid shit like that wouldn't fly, so i didn't bother to look it up beforehand. But cute that you need to go that way to try and refute what i said. Obviously we're talking affluenza.
she is talking about black kids without empathy or conscience. that is the key part.
No, the key part is that she (as you put it) very clearly says that those black kids in gangs often are superpredators. Implying that those kids in gangs often are without conscience or empathy.
Haven't actually watched a full video of this speech...but in the linked video, she didn't seem to signal out black gangs of kids
On April 15 2016 10:58 ticklishmusic wrote: you mean teens with the common cold?
she is talking about black kids without empathy or conscience. that is the key part.
Yeah because the rational response to children who have been so abused that they have allegedly lost their empathy is to throw them in prison indefinitely while cutting budgets that would give them a shred of hope at being a citizen when they have served their time.
I'm sorry but there is just no defending their comments or positions on this.
Violence is being committed. Innocent people are being killed at that moment. It makes sense to prioritize stopping that as soon as possible.
Which would make sense if that's what happened, but it's not. They locked everyone up and called it good. Then they started to find ways to turn them into slave camps. Then Hillary runs in 2016 and now she thinks we need to follow up on the "how they got that way" part 20+ years later.
On April 15 2016 10:58 ticklishmusic wrote: you mean teens with the common cold?
she is talking about black kids without empathy or conscience. that is the key part.
Yeah because the rational response to children who have been so abused that they have allegedly lost their empathy is to throw them in prison indefinitely while cutting budgets that would give them a shred of hope at being a citizen when they have served their time.
I'm sorry but there is just no defending their comments or positions on this.
Violence is being committed. Innocent people are being killed at that moment. It makes sense to prioritize stopping that as soon as possible.
Which would make sense if that's what happened, but it's not. They locked everyone up and called it good. Then they started to find ways to turn them into slave camps. Then Hillary runs in 2016 and now she thinks we need to follow up on the "how they got that way" part 20+ years later.
Those are 2 different things. One is in retrospect and one is at the moment. It made perfect sense at that moment. The follow up is what went wrong.
The crime bill was far from a perfect piece of legislation (arguably it could have been better at the time w/o the Repubs pushing for minimum sentencing and some other stuff) but we're speaking with the benefit of hindsight about what we could have done better. We could've gone back and tried to fix things earlier and it didn't happen which sucks, but that's not necessarily out of malice.
On April 15 2016 10:58 ticklishmusic wrote: you mean teens with the common cold?
she is talking about black kids without empathy or conscience. that is the key part.
Yeah because the rational response to children who have been so abused that they have allegedly lost their empathy is to throw them in prison indefinitely while cutting budgets that would give them a shred of hope at being a citizen when they have served their time.
I'm sorry but there is just no defending their comments or positions on this.
Violence is being committed. Innocent people are being killed at that moment. It makes sense to prioritize stopping that as soon as possible.
Which would make sense if that's what happened, but it's not. They locked everyone up and called it good. Then they started to find ways to turn them into slave camps. Then Hillary runs in 2016 and now she thinks we need to follow up on the "how they got that way" part 20+ years later.
Those are 2 different things. One is in retrospect and one is at the moment. It made perfect sense at that moment. The follow up is what went wrong.
No they aren't. The incarceration was predicated on the notion that the follow up would happen. Not following up indicates it was never more than a rhetorical crutch all along.
On April 15 2016 11:12 ticklishmusic wrote: The crime bill was far from a perfect piece of legislation (arguably it could have been better at the time w/o the Repubs pushing for minimum sentencing and some other stuff) but we're speaking with the benefit of hindsight about what we could have done better.
Put it this way, when did Hillary realize they weren't following up and that it was a mistake?
EPT
