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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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CannonsNCarriers
United States638 Posts
"Social change never happens overnight," he said. "It is a slog and there are times when you just have to chip away and chip away. ... It's reliant on all of us to keep pushing that boulder up the hill." That right there is why Obama has changed from a middling president I voted for, to a great president who will be on dollar bills within 10 years of his death. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21373 Posts
On January 30 2016 04:59 CannonsNCarriers wrote: "Social change never happens overnight," he said. "It is a slog and there are times when you just have to chip away and chip away. ... It's reliant on all of us to keep pushing that boulder up the hill." That right there is why Obama has changed from a middling president I voted for, to a great president who will be on dollar bills within 10 years of his death. haha yeah no | ||
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zeo
Serbia6268 Posts
On January 30 2016 04:59 CannonsNCarriers wrote: "Social change never happens overnight," he said. "It is a slog and there are times when you just have to chip away and chip away. ... It's reliant on all of us to keep pushing that boulder up the hill." That right there is why Obama has changed from a middling president I voted for, to a great president who will be on dollar bills within 10 years of his death. Poe's law in action people. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
For course no one wants to do that because its might involving that messy discussion where you pay someone way more than someone else in the same role. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22736 Posts
On January 30 2016 05:11 Plansix wrote: Poe’s law aside, disclosing pay solves a lot of problems in firms and forces the side by side comparison of races/gender for companies. A of the pay gap issues are directly related to companies not doing this or suspecting there is an issue, but never taking action. Simply forcing them to compile the list and have it on file removes the ability to claim they were not aware. For course no one wants to do that because its might involving that messy discussion where you pay someone way more than someone else in the same role. Similar reasons as to why we don't have accurate reports on police involved shootings. It's easier to deny there's a problem when people don't have solid data to point at. Then one can just conveniently impugn the arguments being made, citing a lack of data and point to the inaccurate/incomplete/absence of data to sustain their position. I vary from day to day on whether people will ever see through the bs. | ||
KwarK
United States42008 Posts
All that will happen is a bunch of bullshit job titles will be created to distinguish between people with different salaries. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
http://enewspf.com/2016/01/29/white-house-fact-sheet-new-steps-to-advance-equal-pay-on-the-seventh-anniversary-of-the-lilly-ledbetter-fair-pay-act/ | ||
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CannonsNCarriers
United States638 Posts
Obama is going to leave office with a 46-48% approval rating. Presidential approval ratings go up over time (Bush2 is somehow around 40% now). Just because you hate incremental, positive, social change doesn't mean the rest of the country does. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
Off the top of my head, my firm would look really weird. Black people: my boss (a VP), a bunch of developers, an analyst and our two office managers. Asians: me, a data analyst, a few others (probably some developers). Then a ton of white people. Having completely transparent salaries might be a little awkward for us. I get paid more than other people my age at my company (I know this because part of my role is finance and handle our company budget). I personally think it's fair that I make more than someone who works 6 hours a day writing articles because I handle a ton of our corporate business functions but regardless of the facts of our roles it might still be a sore sport. The same applies to lot of other 1 on 1 comparisons on pay and roles. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
I think NBA/NFL players also hate that the world knows what they earn, and it really seems to serve them poorly in CBA negotiations as the public never seems to be on their side. Also, I think it creates a dumb situation where things need to be explained that really just ends of becoming a paperwork nightmare. Employment discrimination law is already totally screwed up because of the application of "disparate impact" standards. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 30 2016 05:46 ticklishmusic wrote: I agree with KwarK. For low-skilled labor it makes sense because there's little differentiation in duties. For higher-skilled labor, it gets really complicated-- examples include people with the same title or rank (like VP, manager, etc.) but substantially different amounts/types of responsibility. Off the top of my head, my firm would look really weird. Black people: my boss (a VP), a bunch of developers, an analyst and our two office managers. Asians: me, a data analyst, a few others (probably some developers). Then a ton of white people. I know most everyone's salary (or at least the ballparks) because it's part of my job though. Yes, but does collecting that information and going through the thought process harm the business? Many business don’t do what you just did. And there is no specific information about employees released to the public, only broad categories. I don’t make mistakes in my files, but I still audit them just to make sure. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On January 30 2016 05:53 cLutZ wrote: So, in Illinois, we have this with schoolteachers, and they absolutely hate it. Every time they go on strike (outside of the City of Chicago) they get mercilessly mocked because people can see that their kid's English teacher is earning 80k. Notoriously one math teacher earned over 150k while only teaching 3 50-minute classes a day. I think NBA/NFL players also hate that the world knows what they earn, and it really seems to serve them poorly in CBA negotiations as the public never seems to be on their side. I don't see why getting that stuff out in the public is bad. Obviously if you're the profiteer of an in-transparent system you're not going to like it | ||
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zeo
Serbia6268 Posts
On January 30 2016 05:41 CannonsNCarriers wrote: Obama is going to leave office with a 46-48% approval rating. Presidential approval ratings go up over time (Bush2 is somehow around 40% now). Just because you hate incremental, positive, social change doesn't mean the rest of the country does. Obama never went above 64% approval rating during his 8 years in office, which is the lowest any president has had since these approval ratings have been measured. He also has the lowest approval rating among 'the other party' of any US president in history (14%). He has been the most divisive president the US has had since the civil war and it will take decades to get one half of the country working with the other half again. Thanks Obama. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 30 2016 05:53 cLutZ wrote: So, in Illinois, we have this with schoolteachers, and they absolutely hate it. Every time they go on strike (outside of the City of Chicago) they get mercilessly mocked because people can see that their kid's English teacher is earning 80k. Notoriously one math teacher earned over 150k while only teaching 3 50-minute classes a day. I think NBA/NFL players also hate that the world knows what they earn, and it really seems to serve them poorly in CBA negotiations as the public never seems to be on their side. Also, I think it creates a dumb situation where things need to be explained that really just ends of becoming a paperwork nightmare. Employment discrimination law is already totally screwed up because of the application of "disparate impact" standards. I would point out again that the specific information about employees is not public under the requirement. They couldn't trot out someones pay when they go on strike. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On January 30 2016 05:59 zeo wrote: Obama never went above 64% approval rating during his 8 years in office, which is the lowest any president has had since these approval ratings have been measured. He also has the lowest approval rating among 'the other party' of any US president in history (14%). He has been the most divisive president the US has had since the civil war and it will take decades to get one half of the country working with the other half again. Thanks Obama. Thanks tea party is more like it I think. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 30 2016 05:59 zeo wrote: Obama never went above 64% approval rating during his 8 years in office, which is the lowest any president has had since these approval ratings have been measured. He also has the lowest approval rating among 'the other party' of any US president in history (14%). He has been the most divisive president the US has had since the civil war and it will take decades to get one half of the country working with the other half again. Thanks Obama. I mean that's just because it's moving more and more towards the extrem side of things. You just didn't have large amounts of people who insult the president claiming he's a Muslim-Communist born in Africa to someone entirely else than the people who claim to be his parents, shipped to America to become President and destroy the country from the inside. That kind of thing is on a new level. Of course if you have people who are telling those stories on the other side of the spectrum people aren't going to like him if they actually end up believing it. | ||
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
On January 30 2016 05:59 zeo wrote: Obama never went above 64% approval rating during his 8 years in office, which is the lowest any president has had since these approval ratings have been measured. He also has the lowest approval rating among 'the other party' of any US president in history (14%). He has been the most divisive president the US has had since the civil war and it will take decades to get one half of the country working with the other half again. Thanks Obama. I think the tea party has a lot more to do with the described political divide than Obama. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On January 30 2016 05:59 zeo wrote: Obama never went above 64% approval rating during his 8 years in office, which is the lowest any president has had since these approval ratings have been measured. He also has the lowest approval rating among 'the other party' of any US president in history (14%). He has been the most divisive president the US has had since the civil war and it will take decades to get one half of the country working with the other half again. Thanks Obama. and the congressional approval ratings is so low as to be a rounding error. | ||
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frazzle
United States468 Posts
On January 30 2016 05:59 zeo wrote: Obama never went above 64% approval rating during his 8 years in office, which is the lowest any president has had since these approval ratings have been measured. He also has the lowest approval rating among 'the other party' of any US president in history (14%). He has been the most divisive president the US has had since the civil war and it will take decades to get one half of the country working with the other half again. Thanks Obama. That's what he gets for choosing to be black I guess | ||
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