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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On November 03 2015 20:33 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2015 20:21 oneofthem wrote:
among other things, it is a forum for voicing ideas. excluding voices like lessig is pretty bad look. but maybe he was coming to ask questions that would be bad strategically who knows. the hillary machine marches on I don't really care whether he was going to ask good or bad questions. It's quite clear that you need a minimum of public support to be afforded a privileged position to ask questions in a political debate. He was unable/unwilling to get that minimum support. So why should he deserve a soapbox? Thee are hundreds of law professors out there who might have interesting questions, and certainly millions of American citizens who would like the opportunity to debate with Bernie, HRC and the rest. Why should Lessig be treated different when he can't even hit 1% in 3 polls. Even Bobby Jindal manages that.
the controversial action was changing rules to rule him out, perhaps specifically. it's a procedural problem
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On November 04 2015 04:17 Simberto wrote:Well, saying that they don't have guests is not exactly true. In the episodes i have watched, people who are not John Oliver do appear in guest roles from time to time, either to make a point or in specific cases even as an interview. I specifically remember there being Snowden (Not physically, John Oliver actually visited him in Russia) and a trans man from Uganda on various occasions. I think there were some others, too.
It's true they have people who does random skids, but that's not really guest in the sense Trump meant I'd think. OTOH, he is better suited for that than actual interview.
On November 04 2015 04:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +Rand Paul: Free College For Students Is Like “Offering Them Heroin”
Republican presidential candidate and U.S. Senator Rand Paul, went completely off his rocker during a radio interview with Iowa’s Jeff Angelos. During his interview the Libertarian-lite senator warned America’s youth of the dangers of a free college education, by comparing it to free heroin.
“The main thing I would say is that nothing’s free,” Paul said. “If someone offers you something for free, treat it as if they’re offering you heroin and think about the repercussions of what is free and what is a drug, an addicting drug like heroin and the ramifications of that. There’s nothing free. It just means somebody else is gonna pay for it, you don’t see them. So the plumber, the welder, the carpenter, the people who don’t go to college are being asked to pay for your education.”
Rand Paul is obviously desperately grasping for attention with this outrageous metaphor. Free college is exactly nothing like heroin. Millions of young people in this country are drowning in debt, and the Republican Party has no interest in helping them succeed in life. On top of that, if we implemented the plan as, say, Bernie Sanders envisions it, the money for it would come from taxing Wall Street transactions.
As the student debt crisis spirals out of control, millions of young men and women are financially ruined before they even have a chance to begin their lives. This financial hardship has led to suicides that few people are talking about. In 2007, after racking up more than a hundred thousand dollars in student loan debt and being unable to find a job in his field, Jason Yoder took his own life. More than 65 studies worldwide have found a strong correlation between debt and depression which can lead to suicide.
The American Association of Suicidology said:
“Economic strain and personal financial crises have been well documented as precipitating events in individual deaths by suicide.”
So, in reality we can conclude that a free college education would actually be much healthier than Rand Paul’s plans.
Furthermore, Paul’s claim that “the plumber, the welder, the carpenter” who didn’t go to college are going to be forced to pay for your college education is as wrong as his heroin comparison. President Obama has expressed his desire to offer free community college and trade school education to students who maintain a certain GPA. The skilled-workers that Paul is referring to are called “skilled” because they had to go to school and obtain a license to practice their profession. Those workers are EXACTLY the students who would benefit from a free education.
Rand Paul is just like the rest of the Republican party who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. He claims that he doesn’t support the plan to make college free, because he is “fiscally responsible” or whatever other spin he puts on, but that isn’t the reality at all. It’s no coincidence that the GOP is fighting to change the content of history and science books in public schools and to defund public schools and turn them into for-profit voucher programs. Studies prove that the less education a person has, the more likely they are to vote for right-wing candidates. That’s the real reason Republicans like Rand Paul, Ted Cruz and the rest of the party do not support free college education — and it’s exactly why it is so important that we continue to fight for it. ~ http://www.occupydemocrats.com/rand-paul-free-college-for-students-is-like-offering-them-heroin/ This is disappointing considering the only two Republican candidates who I even remotely respect right now are Kasich and Paul. Note: the website is obviously biased in its analysis of Republicans, so I underlined Paul's quote to put an emphasis on the stuff he actually said. Furthermore, I underlined the other statements regarding how even trades/ vocational jobs would still benefit, which Paul is ignoring. Plumbers and welders and carpenters (and everyone else who doesn't have kids in public schools) already pay taxes into public school systems that they're not using, just like how we pay for other public servants that we might not need to use (e.g., firefighters). It's part of being a community and understanding that we should be helping our society grow as a whole. And seeing as how student loan debt is $1 trillion now, which is more than credit card or auto loan debt + Show Spoiler +, there's a real issue that needs to be addressed. And I'd like to think that if college students can graduate relatively debt-free and find jobs, then they can start contributing to the economy and paying back into the system that helped them out.
Isn't Paul also the guy who said working people don't do drugs a while back? By that logic, people who want work shouldn't go to colleges?
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That was pretty good and should be expected after they canceled the next debate cnbc in a huff. If the questions are bad, work with them for a better format, rather than run away with your ball. Or do so and take your lumps from the other side, I guess.
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That John Harwood guy, he even said Trump had a comic-book version of a campaign! How are you supposed to stay in the race after that? Might as well quit once someone asks you a leading question.
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A follow up point to this shameful RNC/Republican debate episode: compare (1) Hillary's 11 hour bravura performance before the most deceitful partisan attacks the Republican congress could produce with (2) the sad cry-babying of Ted Cruz when someone asked him about why he opposed the bipartisan budget compromise. Hillary is ready to president if she can hold her own against that many lies. Cruz is ready for talk radio, where no one asks you questions.
Moreover, if John Harwood is too partisan for you (something that I haven't actually seen hard evidence on), compare his level of partisanship with what the Benghazi hearing showed. The Rep candidates had to deal with 10 minutes of questioning each, with maybe 1 John Harwood question. Hillary did 11 hours.
Here is what Harwood said to Trump:
"Mr. Trump, you've done very well in this campaign so far by promising to build a wall and make another country pay for it, send 11 million people out of the country, cut taxes $10 trillion without increasing the deficit, and make Americans better off because your greatness would replace the stupidity and incompetence of others," Harwood said.
"Let's be honest," he added. "Is this a comic-book version of a presidential campaign?"
Trump said it wasn't, adding that he didn't think it was a very "nicely asked question."
The billionaire businessman cited conservative CNBC commentator and economist Larry Kudlow, who has said he said loves Trump's tax plan. He then proceeded to defend his plans to build a giant wall along the US-Mexican border.
"And Mexico is going to pay for the wall. … People say, 'Oh, how are you going to get Mexico to pay,'" Trump said. "A politician cannot get them to pay. I can."
Harwood then pressed Trump with a tough follow-up.
"I talked to economic advisers who have served presidents of both parties. They said that you have as much chance of cutting taxes that much without increasing the deficit as you would of flying away from that podium by flapping your arms," he told Trump.
Trump again cited Kudlow's praise for his plan.
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I still don't really understand the comic book campaign thing. Comic books these days have a lot more grimdarkness and introspection than Donald Trump. Maybe he meant to say comic strip?
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On November 04 2015 05:23 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
A follow up point to this shameful RNC/Republican debate episode: compare (1) Hillary's 11 hour bravura performance before the most deceitful partisan attacks the Republican congress could produce with (2) the sad cry-babying of Ted Cruz when someone asked him about why he opposed the bipartisan budget compromise. Hillary is ready to president if she can hold her own against that many lies. Cruz is ready for talk radio, where no one asks you questions.
Its not like Hillary could have told the Benghazi committee to fuck off and stay home for tea and biscuits tho.
Nor was it in her interest to shine a light on how badly it went. The media did that perfectly fine on their own.
I believe if the Democrats had been on stage during the CNBC debate they would have complained about the questions aswell.
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On November 04 2015 05:27 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 05:23 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
A follow up point to this shameful RNC/Republican debate episode: compare (1) Hillary's 11 hour bravura performance before the most deceitful partisan attacks the Republican congress could produce with (2) the sad cry-babying of Ted Cruz when someone asked him about why he opposed the bipartisan budget compromise. Hillary is ready to president if she can hold her own against that many lies. Cruz is ready for talk radio, where no one asks you questions. Its not like Hillary could have told the Benghazi committee to fuck off and stay home for tea and biscuits tho. Nor was it in her interest to shine a light on how badly it went. The media did that perfectly fine on their own. I believe if the Democrats had been on stage during the CNBC debate they would have complained about the questions aswell.
What's his name, Jim Webb, complained about the moderators throughout already anyways.
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It shows extreme partisanship to claim that the debate was at all handled well by the moderators, questions included.
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On November 04 2015 05:31 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 05:27 Gorsameth wrote:On November 04 2015 05:23 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
A follow up point to this shameful RNC/Republican debate episode: compare (1) Hillary's 11 hour bravura performance before the most deceitful partisan attacks the Republican congress could produce with (2) the sad cry-babying of Ted Cruz when someone asked him about why he opposed the bipartisan budget compromise. Hillary is ready to president if she can hold her own against that many lies. Cruz is ready for talk radio, where no one asks you questions. Its not like Hillary could have told the Benghazi committee to fuck off and stay home for tea and biscuits tho. Nor was it in her interest to shine a light on how badly it went. The media did that perfectly fine on their own. I believe if the Democrats had been on stage during the CNBC debate they would have complained about the questions aswell. What's his name, Jim Webb, complained about the moderators throughout already anyways.
You can take the man out of the Republican party but you can't take the Republican party out of the man 
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Dr. Ben Carson on Tuesday suggested that a rival presidential campaign had leaked information about his relationship to a medical supplement company to a conservative news outlet in order to discredit him.
National Review's Jim Geraghty originally reported on Caron's ties to the supplement maker Mannatech Inc. in January. Last week, he slammed the retired neurosurgeon after Carson claimed during the Republican presidential debate not to have had "an involvement" with Mannatech Inc. Geraghty described it as "bald-faced lies."
On Tuesday, Breitbart executive editor Steven Bannon asked Carson in a radio interview whether the retired neurosurgeon thought that writers like Geraghty were unfairly singling him out for "special, brutal treatment.”
“Well, they’re concerned about — that obviously comes from someone on that debate stage,” Carson told Bannon on Sirius XM's "Breitbart News Daily." “That’s a submarine that’s sent by them. They’re very concerned about me, and they’re using National Review as their political tool. That’s pretty obvious.”
Bannon then asked if Carson believed that information was "leaked" to National Review or "weaponized" by another campaign.
“Absolutely,” Carson replied.
Source
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On November 04 2015 05:33 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +Dr. Ben Carson on Tuesday suggested that a rival presidential campaign had leaked information about his relationship to a medical supplement company to a conservative news outlet in order to discredit him.
National Review's Jim Geraghty originally reported on Caron's ties to the supplement maker Mannatech Inc. in January. Last week, he slammed the retired neurosurgeon after Carson claimed during the Republican presidential debate not to have had "an involvement" with Mannatech Inc. Geraghty described it as "bald-faced lies."
On Tuesday, Breitbart executive editor Steven Bannon asked Carson in a radio interview whether the retired neurosurgeon thought that writers like Geraghty were unfairly singling him out for "special, brutal treatment.”
“Well, they’re concerned about — that obviously comes from someone on that debate stage,” Carson told Bannon on Sirius XM's "Breitbart News Daily." “That’s a submarine that’s sent by them. They’re very concerned about me, and they’re using National Review as their political tool. That’s pretty obvious.”
Bannon then asked if Carson believed that information was "leaked" to National Review or "weaponized" by another campaign.
“Absolutely,” Carson replied. Source
And he may well be correct.
That doesn't mean he didn't lie about his involvement tho.
The trick is not to complain about having your lies exposed. It's to not lie in the first place...
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On November 04 2015 05:27 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 05:23 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
A follow up point to this shameful RNC/Republican debate episode: compare (1) Hillary's 11 hour bravura performance before the most deceitful partisan attacks the Republican congress could produce with (2) the sad cry-babying of Ted Cruz when someone asked him about why he opposed the bipartisan budget compromise. Hillary is ready to president if she can hold her own against that many lies. Cruz is ready for talk radio, where no one asks you questions. Its not like Hillary could have told the Benghazi committee to fuck off and stay home for tea and biscuits tho. Nor was it in her interest to shine a light on how badly it went. The media did that perfectly fine on their own. I believe if the Democrats had been on stage during the CNBC debate they would have complained about the questions aswell.
Does your imagination of what the Democrats might have done justify what the Republicans actually did? Hillary actually did handle partisan questioning for 11 hours. The Republican candidates broke down and started complaining 1 question in.
The obvious thing that is going on here is that this was a planned talking point by the various campaigns. Cruz got a substantive question about the debt limit deal, and he then immediately riffed on a standard anti-media talking point that the Republican primary electorate wanted to hear. Cruz was playing to the crowd and Republicans by attacking the media, substance of the question be damned. Check the transcript (bolded for emphasis):
+ Show Spoiler +QUINTANILLA: Senator Cruz. Congressional Republicans, Democrats and the White House are about to strike a compromise that would raise the debt limit, prevent a government shutdown and calm financial markets that fear of -- another Washington-created crisis is on the way.
Does your opposition to it show that you're not the kind of problem-solver American voters want?
CRUZ: You know, let me say something at the outset. The questions that have been asked so far in this debate illustrate why the American people don't trust the media.
(APPLAUSE) This is not a cage match. And, you look at the questions -- "Donald Trump, are you a comic-book villain?" "Ben Carson, can you do math?" "John Kasich, will you insult two people over here?" "Marco Rubio, why don't you resign?" "Jeb Bush, why have your numbers fallen?"
How about talking about the substantive issues the people care about?
(APPLAUSE)
QUINTANILLA: (inaudible) do we get credit (inaudible)?
CRUZ: And Carl -- Carl, I'm not finished yet.
CRUZ: The contrast with the Democratic debate, where every fawning question from the media was, "Which of you is more handsome and why?"
(LAUGHTER)
And let me be clear.
(CROSSTALK)
QUINTANILLA: So, this is a question about (inaudible), which you have 30 seconds left to answer, should you choose to do so.
CRUZ: Let me be clear. The men and women on this stage have more ideas, more experience, more common sense than every participant in the Democratic debate. That debate reflected a debate between the Bolsheviks and the Mensheviks.
(LAUGHTER)
And nobody watching at home believed that any of the moderators had any intention of voting in a Republican primary. The questions that are being asked shouldn't be trying to get people to tear into each other. It should be what are your substantive positions...
(CROSSTALK)
QUINTANILLA: OK. (inaudible) I asked you about the debt limit and I got no answer.
(CROSSTALK)
CRUZ: You want me to answer that question? I'm happy to answer the question...
(CROSSTALK)
CRUZ: Let me tell you how that question...
(CROSSTALK)
CRUZ: Let me tell you how that question...
(CROSSTALK)
HARWOOD: Senator Paul, I've got a question for you on the same subject.
CRUZ: ... so you don't actually want to hear the answer, John?
HARWOOD: Senator Paul?
CRUZ: You don't want to hear the answer. You just want to...
(CROSSTALK)
HARWOOD: You used your time on something else.
Senator Paul?
CRUZ: You're not interested in an answer.
(CROSSTALK)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/28/the-third-republican-debate-annotating-the-transcript/
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Also Jon Stewart just signed a 4 year deal with HBO.
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On November 04 2015 05:35 CannonsNCarriers wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 05:27 Gorsameth wrote:On November 04 2015 05:23 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
A follow up point to this shameful RNC/Republican debate episode: compare (1) Hillary's 11 hour bravura performance before the most deceitful partisan attacks the Republican congress could produce with (2) the sad cry-babying of Ted Cruz when someone asked him about why he opposed the bipartisan budget compromise. Hillary is ready to president if she can hold her own against that many lies. Cruz is ready for talk radio, where no one asks you questions. Its not like Hillary could have told the Benghazi committee to fuck off and stay home for tea and biscuits tho. Nor was it in her interest to shine a light on how badly it went. The media did that perfectly fine on their own. I believe if the Democrats had been on stage during the CNBC debate they would have complained about the questions aswell. Does your imagination of what the Democrats might have done justify what the Republicans actually did? Hillary actually did handle partisan questioning for 11 hours. The Republican candidates broke down and started complaining 1 question in. The obvious thing that is going on here is that this was a planned talking point by the various campaigns. Cruz got a substantive question about the debt limit deal, and he then immediately riffed on a standard anti-media talking point that the Republican primary electorate wanted to hear. Cruz was playing to the crowd and Republicans by attacking the media, substance of the question be damned. Check the transcript (bolded for emphasis): QUINTANILLA: Senator Cruz. Congressional Republicans, Democrats and the White House are about to strike a compromise that would raise the debt limit, prevent a government shutdown and calm financial markets that fear of -- another Washington-created crisis is on the way.
Does your opposition to it show that you're not the kind of problem-solver American voters want?CRUZ: You know, let me say something at the outset. The questions that have been asked so far in this debate illustrate why the American people don't trust the media. (APPLAUSE) This is not a cage match. And, you look at the questions -- "Donald Trump, are you a comic-book villain?" "Ben Carson, can you do math?" "John Kasich, will you insult two people over here?" "Marco Rubio, why don't you resign?" "Jeb Bush, why have your numbers fallen?" How about talking about the substantive issues the people care about?
(APPLAUSE) QUINTANILLA: (inaudible) do we get credit (inaudible)? CRUZ: And Carl -- Carl, I'm not finished yet. CRUZ: The contrast with the Democratic debate, where every fawning question from the media was, "Which of you is more handsome and why?" (LAUGHTER) And let me be clear. (CROSSTALK) QUINTANILLA: So, this is a question about (inaudible), which you have 30 seconds left to answer, should you choose to do so. CRUZ: Let me be clear. The men and women on this stage have more ideas, more experience, more common sense than every participant in the Democratic debate. That debate reflected a debate between the Bolsheviks and the Mensheviks. (LAUGHTER) And nobody watching at home believed that any of the moderators had any intention of voting in a Republican primary. The questions that are being asked shouldn't be trying to get people to tear into each other. It should be what are your substantive positions... (CROSSTALK) QUINTANILLA: OK. (inaudible) I asked you about the debt limit and I got no answer.(CROSSTALK) CRUZ: You want me to answer that question? I'm happy to answer the question... (CROSSTALK) CRUZ: Let me tell you how that question... (CROSSTALK) CRUZ: Let me tell you how that question... (CROSSTALK) HARWOOD: Senator Paul, I've got a question for you on the same subject. CRUZ: ... so you don't actually want to hear the answer, John? HARWOOD: Senator Paul? CRUZ: You don't want to hear the answer. You just want to... (CROSSTALK) HARWOOD: You used your time on something else.Senator Paul? CRUZ: You're not interested in an answer. (CROSSTALK) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/28/the-third-republican-debate-annotating-the-transcript/
The best part of that line is Cruz got to insult everyone while making it look like it wasn't him doing it.
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That entire exchange by Cruz is embarrassing to read. If you want to shut down the government, at least answer the questions of people who think its a bad idea.
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On November 04 2015 05:39 Plansix wrote:
That entire exchange by Cruz is embarrassing to read. If you want to shut down the government, at least answer the questions of people who think its a bad idea.
He's good at shutting things down.
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On November 04 2015 05:35 CannonsNCarriers wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2015 05:27 Gorsameth wrote:On November 04 2015 05:23 CannonsNCarriers wrote:
A follow up point to this shameful RNC/Republican debate episode: compare (1) Hillary's 11 hour bravura performance before the most deceitful partisan attacks the Republican congress could produce with (2) the sad cry-babying of Ted Cruz when someone asked him about why he opposed the bipartisan budget compromise. Hillary is ready to president if she can hold her own against that many lies. Cruz is ready for talk radio, where no one asks you questions. Its not like Hillary could have told the Benghazi committee to fuck off and stay home for tea and biscuits tho. Nor was it in her interest to shine a light on how badly it went. The media did that perfectly fine on their own. I believe if the Democrats had been on stage during the CNBC debate they would have complained about the questions aswell. Does your imagination of what the Democrats might have done justify what the Republicans actually did? Hillary actually did handle partisan questioning for 11 hours. The Republican candidates broke down and started complaining 1 question in. The obvious thing that is going on here is that this was a planned talking point by the various campaigns. Cruz got a substantive question about the debt limit deal, and he then immediately riffed on a standard anti-media talking point that the Republican primary electorate wanted to hear. Cruz was playing to the crowd and Republicans by attacking the media, substance of the question be damned. Check the transcript (bolded for emphasis): QUINTANILLA: Senator Cruz. Congressional Republicans, Democrats and the White House are about to strike a compromise that would raise the debt limit, prevent a government shutdown and calm financial markets that fear of -- another Washington-created crisis is on the way.
Does your opposition to it show that you're not the kind of problem-solver American voters want?CRUZ: You know, let me say something at the outset. The questions that have been asked so far in this debate illustrate why the American people don't trust the media. (APPLAUSE) This is not a cage match. And, you look at the questions -- "Donald Trump, are you a comic-book villain?" "Ben Carson, can you do math?" "John Kasich, will you insult two people over here?" "Marco Rubio, why don't you resign?" "Jeb Bush, why have your numbers fallen?" How about talking about the substantive issues the people care about?
(APPLAUSE) QUINTANILLA: (inaudible) do we get credit (inaudible)? CRUZ: And Carl -- Carl, I'm not finished yet. CRUZ: The contrast with the Democratic debate, where every fawning question from the media was, "Which of you is more handsome and why?" (LAUGHTER) And let me be clear. (CROSSTALK) QUINTANILLA: So, this is a question about (inaudible), which you have 30 seconds left to answer, should you choose to do so. CRUZ: Let me be clear. The men and women on this stage have more ideas, more experience, more common sense than every participant in the Democratic debate. That debate reflected a debate between the Bolsheviks and the Mensheviks. (LAUGHTER) And nobody watching at home believed that any of the moderators had any intention of voting in a Republican primary. The questions that are being asked shouldn't be trying to get people to tear into each other. It should be what are your substantive positions... (CROSSTALK) QUINTANILLA: OK. (inaudible) I asked you about the debt limit and I got no answer.(CROSSTALK) CRUZ: You want me to answer that question? I'm happy to answer the question... (CROSSTALK) CRUZ: Let me tell you how that question... (CROSSTALK) CRUZ: Let me tell you how that question... (CROSSTALK) HARWOOD: Senator Paul, I've got a question for you on the same subject. CRUZ: ... so you don't actually want to hear the answer, John? HARWOOD: Senator Paul? CRUZ: You don't want to hear the answer. You just want to... (CROSSTALK) HARWOOD: You used your time on something else.Senator Paul? CRUZ: You're not interested in an answer. (CROSSTALK) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/28/the-third-republican-debate-annotating-the-transcript/
LMAO. That's not a question - that's an all ready formulated and synthesized conclusion, with a lead-in that begs the question. The whole point of that is not to ask a "substantive" question, that would lead to a better understanding of...anything really, but someone whose agenda (E.g. more Government spending and debt = good! (by virtue of their conclusion that said spending and debt is good for the economy, and any cessation would be a "crisis")), is being paraded about as non-biased and/or impartial to any extent is LAUGHABLE.
Doesn't matter anyways - this forum is an echo chamber for this kind of partisanry and ideological stuff. Anyone not tied hand and fist to the DNC or to the little Red Book would find this "question" as far from a "substantive" question as it gets.
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EPT
