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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43967 Posts
October 30 2015 19:32 GMT
#49401
Minirant based upon a denial of coverage letter I got today.

The American health insurance has to change. I have no idea how the American people have tolerated this for so long but coming from a first world country to America has been a huge shock. I can only assume that that the majority of Americans are simply unaware of how wonderful it is to not be getting American healthcare. I have a health insurance card, I wanted to get a physical, I read the card and it told me to go onto the website to find a list of in network providers. I made an account and I found one on the list of providers which they will cover that do what I want. I called them, made an appointment and gave them my insurance number. I then went in, registered with that doctor, gave them my insurance card, they ran it and told me I wouldn't be paying. It turns out that while I am theoretically able to use that doctor under certain conditions I am not currently eligible under rules that the doctor's staff were unaware of when they told me I wouldn't be paying. And of course they can't tell me how much I'll owe because they have multiple prices for the same service and they're still trying to work out which one I qualify under. The amount of bureaucracy within this system is staggering.


Single payer. It has to happen.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-30 19:44:39
October 30 2015 19:43 GMT
#49402
The US healthcare system is a pile of garbage and is a joke compared to other nations. The fact that we even debate that it was functional before the ACA is embarrassing. But people worship the “free market” and assume it will solve the healthcare problem. Even though its impossible to get a quote on medical services or be 100% sure what your provider will pay.

But the invisible hand cures all problems.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 30 2015 19:45 GMT
#49403
More than 6,000 federal prisoners will be released starting Friday, after their terms for nonviolent offenses were reduced under new sentencing guidelines enacted last year. The new guidelines came amid a bipartisan push to scale back mass incarceration in the United States, but for many of the inmates, the release will also mean a new set of challenges.

Judicial reform advocates emphasized that the release would not suddenly introduce an unusual number of inmates into society, as the majority of them will first enter into halfway houses, while about 1,700 of them who are not U.S. citizens will be turned over to U.S. customs officials and may face deportation.

The release of the 6,122 inmates – who will be discharged over the next three days – does not amount to “opening up the floodgates,” said Holly Harris, executive director of the Justice Action Network, an alliance of conservative and liberal groups seeking to remove people from prison.

The challenge now is making sure that the released prisoners are able to re-enter society and become productive citizens, Harris told Al Jazeera. “If we’re going to talk about criminal justice reform comprehensively, then it’s about removing obstacles to inmates’ re-entry” into society, she said.

The new policy will grant early release for some 17,000 prisoners convicted of nonviolent drug offenses, and applies retroactively. But it represents just a small fraction of the 200,000 people in federal custody for various crimes.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23930 Posts
October 30 2015 19:49 GMT
#49404
On October 31 2015 04:32 KwarK wrote:
Minirant based upon a denial of coverage letter I got today.

The American health insurance has to change. I have no idea how the American people have tolerated this for so long but coming from a first world country to America has been a huge shock. I can only assume that that the majority of Americans are simply unaware of how wonderful it is to not be getting American healthcare. I have a health insurance card, I wanted to get a physical, I read the card and it told me to go onto the website to find a list of in network providers. I made an account and I found one on the list of providers which they will cover that do what I want. I called them, made an appointment and gave them my insurance number. I then went in, registered with that doctor, gave them my insurance card, they ran it and told me I wouldn't be paying. It turns out that while I am theoretically able to use that doctor under certain conditions I am not currently eligible under rules that the doctor's staff were unaware of when they told me I wouldn't be paying. And of course they can't tell me how much I'll owe because they have multiple prices for the same service and they're still trying to work out which one I qualify under. The amount of bureaucracy within this system is staggering.


Single payer. It has to happen.


Yeah, add it to the list of helpful things Republicans stand steadfast in the way of, despite the majority of Americans wanting it.

More than five years after the single-payer system was scrapped from ObamaCare policy debates, just over 50 percent of people say they still support the idea, including one-quarter of Republicans, according to a new poll.

The single-payer option – also known as Medicare for all – would create a new, government-run insurance program to replace private coverage. The system, once backed by President Obama, became one of the biggest casualties of the divisive healthcare debates of 2009.

The idea remains extremely popular among Democrats, with nearly 80 percent in support, according to the poll, which was shared first with The Hill by the Progressive Change Institute.

“There is a hunger in America for big progressive ideas," spokesperson TJ Helmstetter wrote in a statement. "The state of our union is progressive, and the president would be smart to give America the big, popular, progressive economic ideas that people have been crying out for.”

Another proposed idea under ObamaCare – the public option – also retains wide approval.

Only 13 percent of people said they opposed the public option, which would give individuals the choice of buying healthcare through Medicare or private insurers.


Source

"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
October 30 2015 19:52 GMT
#49405
Aye kwark, there's far too much bureaucracy and info-hiding in the system. single payer would be nice. Or just less complicated billing systems. People been angry about it for a long time, but you can't fight the system
mostly people just aren't familiar with the extent to which the system could be better.
I'd happily fix it all, but I'm having trouble getting elected, something about not trying very hard, or much at all.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11824 Posts
October 30 2015 20:07 GMT
#49406
On October 31 2015 04:32 KwarK wrote:
Minirant based upon a denial of coverage letter I got today.

The American health insurance has to change. I have no idea how the American people have tolerated this for so long but coming from a first world country to America has been a huge shock. I can only assume that that the majority of Americans are simply unaware of how wonderful it is to not be getting American healthcare. I have a health insurance card, I wanted to get a physical, I read the card and it told me to go onto the website to find a list of in network providers. I made an account and I found one on the list of providers which they will cover that do what I want. I called them, made an appointment and gave them my insurance number. I then went in, registered with that doctor, gave them my insurance card, they ran it and told me I wouldn't be paying. It turns out that while I am theoretically able to use that doctor under certain conditions I am not currently eligible under rules that the doctor's staff were unaware of when they told me I wouldn't be paying. And of course they can't tell me how much I'll owe because they have multiple prices for the same service and they're still trying to work out which one I qualify under. The amount of bureaucracy within this system is staggering.


Single payer. It has to happen.


Just to give a comparison from a country with a working healthcare system:

If i want to go to a doctor, i call the doctor and make an appointment. Then i go to the doctor and hand them my card. The end.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 30 2015 20:08 GMT
#49407
The FBI flew surveillance flights over Baltimore during the unrest that followed the death of Freddie Gray and over Ferguson, Missouri following the death of Michael Brown, using advanced surveillance techniques including infrared cameras, documents obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) have revealed.

The internal documents from the FBI and the Federal Aviation Authority (FAA) show that one Cessna aircraft circling over the Baltimore protests – which was registered to an FBI shell company named “NG Research” – carried an infrared camera mount as well as an FLIR Talon multi-sensor camera system, which includes thermal imaging technology and laser illumination.

Nate Wessler, a staff attorney at the ACLU’s Speech, Privacy and Technology project, told the Guardian that while the supreme court had upheld the use by agencies of surveillance planes, it had not considered their use in light of the high level of sophistication of the equipment now on board.

“That’s what really raises part of the concern here,” he said. “We know at least one of these planes was equipped with infrared cameras – we don’t know how powerful [they are], but if it is used to gain info about the interior of homes, then a warrant is clearly required under supreme court precedent.”

FBI director James Comey confirmed to Congress last week that surveillance flights had taken place over Ferguson and Baltimore during the protests. The capabilities of the aircraft involved was not revealed.

In June, the Associated Press reported that the FBI maintained a fleet of at least 50 aircraft flying such surveillance missions over cities across the US. At the time, the FBI claimed the planes were not equipped for mass surveillance.

However, the documents obtained by the ACLU, which were obtained following requests under the Freedom of Information Act, show the agency is holding on to all surveillance tapes collected during the unrest in Baltimore and Ferguson.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-30 20:13:11
October 30 2015 20:10 GMT
#49408
On October 31 2015 04:32 KwarK wrote:
Minirant based upon a denial of coverage letter I got today.

The American health insurance has to change. I have no idea how the American people have tolerated this for so long but coming from a first world country to America has been a huge shock. I can only assume that that the majority of Americans are simply unaware of how wonderful it is to not be getting American healthcare. I have a health insurance card, I wanted to get a physical, I read the card and it told me to go onto the website to find a list of in network providers. I made an account and I found one on the list of providers which they will cover that do what I want. I called them, made an appointment and gave them my insurance number. I then went in, registered with that doctor, gave them my insurance card, they ran it and told me I wouldn't be paying. It turns out that while I am theoretically able to use that doctor under certain conditions I am not currently eligible under rules that the doctor's staff were unaware of when they told me I wouldn't be paying. And of course they can't tell me how much I'll owe because they have multiple prices for the same service and they're still trying to work out which one I qualify under. The amount of bureaucracy within this system is staggering.


Single payer. It has to happen.


Dude i payed 2500 dollars for an MRI on a stress fracture in late 2013 even though I had probably the best single payer KP coverage you can get through a corporate environment in DC.

FYI an MRI in Pakistan is 60 dollars and its an equally good if not better as an experience (granted no one can afford that but thats not the point).

I could literally have bought a last minute first class return ticket, taken a vacation back there, gotten an MRI and come back for that much.

And I was promised no more than 600 on the quotes and estimate, because I am always skeptical. Turns out that quote was just for the appointment, using the machine, the die, the nurses time, the strap the referal. All of these cost money.

Its a disaster. Sure in Canada i have to wait, but atleast its free
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 30 2015 20:14 GMT
#49409
The chief operating officer of former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush's struggling presidential campaign is out, according to a Friday report in the Wall Street Journal.

Christine Ciccone was responsible for logistics and got paid about $12,000 a month.

“We are grateful to have had Christine on the team, we respect her immensely,” Bush spokesman Tim Miller told the Journal.


This comes about a week after reports that Bush was downsizing his staff at the campaign's Miami headquarters and slashing payroll by 40 percent.

The talks of money trouble come despite the fact that the super PAC supporting Bush's candidacy, Right to Rise, is one of the best funded among 2016 candidates.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
ragz_gt
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
9172 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-30 20:15:24
October 30 2015 20:15 GMT
#49410
If his last name was not Bush he would dropped out by now.
I'm not an otaku, I'm a specialist.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23930 Posts
October 30 2015 20:23 GMT
#49411
On October 31 2015 05:15 ragz_gt wrote:
If his last name was not Bush he would dropped out by now.


What cracks me up about people like Bush is how frustrated they are with what the Republican party has become and the success of Trump and Carson as if it wasn't a direct result of the 2010 campaign and feeding the trolls since Obama was elected.

The flagrant disconnects between republican opinion and reality were constantly reinforced for years or at minimum allowed to fester. When a top ranking senator throws a snowball as his evidence against global warming and isn't shamed out of the senate it's pretty clear this is a problem of republicans own making.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-30 20:37:26
October 30 2015 20:31 GMT
#49412
On October 30 2015 11:43 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2015 11:41 notesfromunderground wrote:
On October 30 2015 11:40 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I feel like this discussion merits its own thread.


We are debating an issue of deep, fundamental importance to the political landscape today in America.

How much is there to say about the election? If you are not voting for Bernie Sanders, you are very foolish. Let's get down the real issues, like the science wars!

Mostly you're derailing the thread and backing filling relevance.


Oh jesus dude. Does talking about meaningful topics instead of meaningless political theatre really bother you?

I am pretty sure that most people in this thread think they can tell how intelligent someone is by talking to them, even if they won't admit it. But then again maybe the ceiling on that is someone's own intelligence level.

Sometimes I listen to Trump and he sounds like the most intelligent and the most honest GOP candidate on stage. Other times, like when I read this: mobile.nytimes.com I think that Trump is actually just a tremendously insecure rich boy who spends too much time worried about what other people think about him to ever spend time seriously thinking about anything.

Carson is a good example of a person who gets by solely on an unfounded "authority figure" status. Anyone with half a brain listening to him actually speak should know that he doesn't even pass the sniff test, but tons of people who would rather defer to his "expert surgeon" aura end up uncritically labeling him as intelligent despite the evidence every time he opens his mouth.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 30 2015 20:36 GMT
#49413
On October 31 2015 05:31 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2015 11:43 Plansix wrote:
On October 30 2015 11:41 notesfromunderground wrote:
On October 30 2015 11:40 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I feel like this discussion merits its own thread.


We are debating an issue of deep, fundamental importance to the political landscape today in America.

How much is there to say about the election? If you are not voting for Bernie Sanders, you are very foolish. Let's get down the real issues, like the science wars!

Mostly you're derailing the thread and backing filling relevance.


Oh jesus dude. Does talking about meaningful topics instead of meaningless political theatre really bother you?

I am pretty sure that most people in this thread think they can tell how intelligent someone is by talking to them, even if they won't admit it. But then again maybe the ceiling on that is someone's own intelligence level.

Sometimes I listen to Trump and he sounds like the most intelligent and the most honest GOP candidate on stage. Other times, like when I read this: mobile.nytimes.com I think that Trump is actually just a tremendously insecure rich boy who spends too much time worried about what people think about him to ever spend time seriously thinking about anything.

Welcome to the party half a day late. And the poster in question stuck up for himself just fine without your help. I agree about Trump though, he is in it for his ego and nothing more.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
IgnE
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7681 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-30 20:41:42
October 30 2015 20:38 GMT
#49414
Yeah my bad I can't keep up with 200 posts every 24 hours.

BUT I will say this last couple days of posts have actually been worth reading.
The unrealistic sound of these propositions is indicative, not of their utopian character, but of the strength of the forces which prevent their realization.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
October 30 2015 21:12 GMT
#49415
People get too upset/annoyed when topics that are quite relevant to politics start being discussed. Guess some people just like pages upon pages of the same shit.
'x person said/did y thing', liberal: 'they are right/wrong', cons:'they are wrong/right'. Repeated endlessly.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 30 2015 21:17 GMT
#49416
The discussion about intelligence was fine. The talking down to teachers for not conforming to the posters standards was annoying.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-30 22:10:35
October 30 2015 21:30 GMT
#49417
On October 31 2015 05:31 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2015 11:43 Plansix wrote:
On October 30 2015 11:41 notesfromunderground wrote:
On October 30 2015 11:40 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I feel like this discussion merits its own thread.


We are debating an issue of deep, fundamental importance to the political landscape today in America.

How much is there to say about the election? If you are not voting for Bernie Sanders, you are very foolish. Let's get down the real issues, like the science wars!

Mostly you're derailing the thread and backing filling relevance.


Oh jesus dude. Does talking about meaningful topics instead of meaningless political theatre really bother you?

I am pretty sure that most people in this thread think they can tell how intelligent someone is by talking to them, even if they won't admit it. But then again maybe the ceiling on that is someone's own intelligence level.

Sometimes I listen to Trump and he sounds like the most intelligent and the most honest GOP candidate on stage. Other times, like when I read this: mobile.nytimes.com I think that Trump is actually just a tremendously insecure rich boy who spends too much time worried about what other people think about him to ever spend time seriously thinking about anything.

Carson is a good example of a person who gets by solely on an unfounded "authority figure" status. Anyone with half a brain listening to him actually speak should know that he doesn't even pass the sniff test, but tons of people who would rather defer to his "expert surgeon" aura end up uncritically labeling him as intelligent despite the evidence every time he opens his mouth.

This discussion on intelligence seems completly false to me.
Talking to one guy does not permit anyone to judge his intelligence, but rather his familiarity with the specific game that is talking in public, a familiarity that is defined by education and, more often than not, the social background. It also greatly depend on the "interaction order", the specificity of the moment and the affinity of every members with the role they are supposed to play in this situation. The deepness of one argument is usually lost behind the form of the discourse. I know plenty of people that can say stupid things intelligently.
At the other side of the spectrum, I meet many people that seemed very brutish at first, complete imbecile, that, in the right moment, made comment that had more deepness or "intelligence" than most discourse I've heard, but those comments were not refined nor constructed, ambivalent by nature.
1960-70 psychology and philosophy, behind its valorization of the mentally ill (like in Foucault or Deleuze work, or even in Lacan's analysis of the discourse of the hysteric) actually understood that simple fact, that intelligent comments more often than not comes from people that are unable to find structure for their speech.

Judging the "intelligence" of anyone is absurd because intelligence is a plot of language that has no unity in reality : the average physicist is intelligent when talking about physic, but stupid when playing basketball. Simberto seems to believe that the problem behind scientifically objectifying intelligence is the definition, but he himself more or less explain that any scientific definition of intelligence would be a great simplification from what we understand as intelligence - which is an evaluation on the essence of someone.

Well whatever I could continue talking rubbish all night long. Is it your birthday IgnE or did you just get a cake for your icon thanks to some amazing feat I'm unaware of ?
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
October 30 2015 21:45 GMT
#49418
On October 31 2015 03:23 frazzle wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2015 01:31 Danglars wrote:
We're not exactly expecting her proposals on policing to encourage more stop and frisk to protect black neighborhoods from gang violence. Same goes for black on black murder. Baltimore's response to their recent troubles should be enough to show two different approaches or lines of thought on the bag of issues.

You're suggesting the black voters support stop and frisk? Or are you saying we just need to do whether black communities want it or not it because it works? This poll suggests blacks don't support it by a wide margin. That was in 2012.

Hold your horses, man. I assert that there's an ideological divide in reforms to the criminal justice system & police departments. When you objected to "leftist" characterization, you pretended that all African Americans are forever on board with Democrat policy proposals ("cater"/"pander" to African American community). It wasn't true as recently as three decades ago, it won't necessarily be true forever in the future. See the original post for approaches Clinton is not likely to take. Persist in the tired cliches if that's your shtick, you're in good company.

I remarked on the Clinton's continued NAACP/CBC alliance because this is nothing new for them. Sanders may force her left on a number of issues, I'm thinking mostly on the economy, which she'd rather not adopt for her corporate supporters or other reasons. I don't think this is an example of that looking back to how Bill did things in the nineties. It's home turf.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-30 21:52:44
October 30 2015 21:52 GMT
#49419
Danglars is leaving out the part where the Republicans lost the majority of the black vote to Democrats back in the 1960s by catering to another group:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

And of course the Republicans could cater to blacks, but that would involve giving up the base that is stumping for Trump. And to be honest, the country would be way better off if they did.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 30 2015 22:03 GMT
#49420
On October 31 2015 05:31 IgnE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2015 11:43 Plansix wrote:
On October 30 2015 11:41 notesfromunderground wrote:
On October 30 2015 11:40 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I feel like this discussion merits its own thread.


We are debating an issue of deep, fundamental importance to the political landscape today in America.

How much is there to say about the election? If you are not voting for Bernie Sanders, you are very foolish. Let's get down the real issues, like the science wars!

Mostly you're derailing the thread and backing filling relevance.


Oh jesus dude. Does talking about meaningful topics instead of meaningless political theatre really bother you?

I am pretty sure that most people in this thread think they can tell how intelligent someone is by talking to them, even if they won't admit it. But then again maybe the ceiling on that is someone's own intelligence level.

Sometimes I listen to Trump and he sounds like the most intelligent and the most honest GOP candidate on stage. Other times, like when I read this: mobile.nytimes.com I think that Trump is actually just a tremendously insecure rich boy who spends too much time worried about what other people think about him to ever spend time seriously thinking about anything.

Carson is a good example of a person who gets by solely on an unfounded "authority figure" status. Anyone with half a brain listening to him actually speak should know that he doesn't even pass the sniff test, but tons of people who would rather defer to his "expert surgeon" aura end up uncritically labeling him as intelligent despite the evidence every time he opens his mouth.

You can't really assess intelligence just by gauging one's speech, anyway. At best, all that you're really going to be able to assess is the verbal intelligence of the subject plus what ever other information that you can glean from whatever that the person is talking about.
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