• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:12
CEST 06:12
KST 13:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun12[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists22[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9
Community News
RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event4Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results02026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25Maestros of the Game 2 announced92026 GSL Tour plans announced15
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool MaNa leaves Team Liquid
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) SC2 INu's Battles#15 <BO.9 2Matches> WardiTV Spring Cup SEL Masters #6 - Solar vs Classic (SC: Evo)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss
Brood War
General
Pros React To: Leta vs Tulbo (ASL S21, Ro.8) [BSL22] RO16 Group A - Sunday 21:00 CEST [BSL22] RO16 Group B - Saturday 21:00 CEST RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro8 Day 2
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV Diablo IV
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread 3D technology/software discussion Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1367 users

US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1809

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 1807 1808 1809 1810 1811 10093 Next
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
April 04 2015 01:05 GMT
#36161
On April 04 2015 09:37 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2015 09:35 cLutZ wrote:
Just so long as you understand that that involves people being sent to jail or killed for disagreeing with you.

No it doesn't? You can't go to jail in a civil case and not one is going to die because of a civil case. You are just wrong.

you can go to jail for willful violation of a civil court order.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-04 01:08:32
April 04 2015 01:07 GMT
#36162
I don't know why companies should even have the right to deny people service in the first place. Every company is dependent on public services. Businesses depend on publicly maintained streets, publicly run garbage disposal and hire publicly educated staff. All paid for by citizens no matter what their gender,ethnicity or sexual orientation is. Why should businesses be any more privileged than the average citizen who has no say to which businesses his money goes?
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
April 04 2015 01:07 GMT
#36163
On April 04 2015 09:57 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2015 09:47 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:43 cLutZ wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:37 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:35 cLutZ wrote:
Just so long as you understand that that involves people being sent to jail or killed for disagreeing with you.

No it doesn't? You can't go to jail in a civil case and not one is going to die because of a civil case. You are just wrong.


You still haven't explained the method of retrieving the money or shutting down the pizzeria that doesn't involve guns.

You really don't understand how law works, so I am going to stop responding to your increasingly foolish comments.


No, YOU don't understand how the law works. Every law is enforced, in the end, by the threat of imprisonment carried out by a police force. Thus, you should understand that you are deciding between that and the other social evil you are outlawing.

In civil law, for instance, a contract is you consenting to have the courts adjudicate disputes between the two parties in this manner, or in tort law we have determined that this is a better result than allowing people to go around injuring people without making financial remissions.


I'd have to side with plansix on this one; you're wrong clutz. It's utter nonsense to use the eventual fallback of imprisonment to say that every issue forces people to be jailed or killed. That's just plain BS.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-04 01:13:42
April 04 2015 01:13 GMT
#36164
On April 04 2015 10:07 Nyxisto wrote:
I don't know why companies should even have the right to deny people service in the first place. Every company is dependent on public services. Businesses depend on publicly maintained streets, publicly run garbage disposal and hire publicly educated staff. All paid for by citizens no matter what their gender,ethnicity or sexual orientation is. Why should businesses be any more privileged than the average citizen who has no say to which businesses his money goes?

hint hint, they're not, at least not in regards to refusing service.
liftlift > tsm
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-04 01:18:57
April 04 2015 01:16 GMT
#36165
On April 04 2015 10:05 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2015 09:37 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:35 cLutZ wrote:
Just so long as you understand that that involves people being sent to jail or killed for disagreeing with you.

No it doesn't? You can't go to jail in a civil case and not one is going to die because of a civil case. You are just wrong.

you can go to jail for willful violation of a civil court order.

You have to try really hard and they don't send you to jail for a money judgment, which is what he is talking about. He is making a totally hyperbolic argument that being sued for discrimination will lead to armed assaults on pizza places to force them to cater gay weddings.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4951 Posts
April 04 2015 01:18 GMT
#36166
It's a bad argument anyway, as business owners they probably pay more in taxes than any one of their customers. In that case refusing service only hurts their bottom line.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
Livelovedie
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States492 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-04 01:19:43
April 04 2015 01:18 GMT
#36167
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 04 2015 09:38 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Anyways, I would like to bring up the ongoing issue of Yemen.

Show nested quote +
The Romans had a name for Yemen.
They called it Arabia Felix - Happy Arabia - because of its lush, rain-fed mountain scenery.

Today that epithet sounds tragically inappropriate.

Already the poorest country in the Middle East, wracked by soaring unemployment, dwindling oil and water reserves and home to the most dangerous branch of al-Qaeda, now Yemen is being torn apart by war of many sides.

The Saudi-led air strikes began last month, raining down precision-guided missiles on a rebel group called the Houthis who swept down from their mountain stronghold in the far north six months ago, taking town after town, and pushing out the UN-recognised President Hadi.

That alarmed the Saudis and the other Gulf Arab states, especially as they suspect the hand of Iran as being behind the Houthis' spectacular blitzkrieg.

How else, Saudis keep saying to me, could an impoverished group of tribesmen get the training, the weapons and the money to take over half the country?

There's a sectarian angle here too. The Houthi rebels are Zaidi Shias, representing about a third of the population. The Saudi rulers are suspicious of Shias, many of whom look to Iran for spiritual leadership.

Saudi Arabia is a predominately Sunni Muslim country and the Saudis are starting to think they're getting encircled by proxies of Iran wherever they look: in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and now Yemen.

Enough, they said, drawing a line in the sand. At a secret summit in a Saudi palace last month they threw together a 10-nation coalition in a belated and possibly doomed Gulf Arab attempt to turn back the Houthi takeover of Yemen and restore their ally to power.

Change of presidents

But in fact the Houthis largely owe their military success to someone much closer to home. They've formed an alliance of convenience, a sort of pact with the devil, with the very man who tried to bomb them out of existence five years ago.

Ali Abdullah Saleh ruled first North Yemen, then a unified Yemen, for 35 years, until he was forced out of power by the Arab Spring protests.

He refused to believe that Yemen was better off without him. So he set about wrecking the peaceful political transition of power that Yemen's friends had worked so hard to engineer.

Whole units of the Republican Guard remained loyal to him, bombs went off and towns were fought over.

President Hadi who replaced him, an elderly, genial southerner, has been no match for Saleh's machinations. He must be rueing the day he agreed to let his predecessor stay on in Yemen.

I interviewed Saleh once, in his fortified palace in the capital, Sanaa. It did not go well.

Speaking in Arabic without a translator, I asked him what he wanted his legacy to be.

The unification of North and South Yemen, of course, he replied, this was his crowning achievement. I thought I would soften him up by asking what benefits this had brought, but the way I said it in Arabic came out as 'well what was the point of that?'

What? he barked, glaring at me furiously, summoning his official translator, and looking pointedly at his watch.

Effective fighters

As president, Saleh fought six short wars against the Houthis until it ended in an uneasy truce. Now he's cynically using them to destroy those who he sees as usurping his power.

The Houthis are fierce, effective fighters, used to living on little in the black, volcanic mountains that straddle the Saudi-Yemeni border.

When I visited them in their stronghold city of Saada my girlfriend and I were woken on our first morning by a burst of heavy machinegun fire from a pickup truck outside in the street.

"It is celebration," said the man on reception, unfazed. Later we met a pair of brothers who took us out to the mountains to show off their skills with a Kalashnikov.

Chewing the narcotic qat leaf and racing across the desert in a beaten-up old car, they thought it was the biggest joke to swap places behind the wheel while driving at 60 miles an hour.

Their shooting was every bit as wild as their driving and before long a farmer emerged, shouting and cursing. "What the hell are you doing?" he said. "Bullets are coming down all around my sheep!"

Sunni fanatics

I have no idea what dizzy heights those two rose to after that in Yemen's tribal hierarchy, but the Houthis and their allies are now in control of most of the important parts of Yemen, despite more than a week of airstrikes.

If those fail to dislodge them then the Saudis have not ruled out a ground invasion, but everyone knows that carries enormous risks of getting bogged down into a vulnerable army of occupation.

Instead, the Houthis face a more dangerous foe - the jihadists of al-Qaeda. The jihadists are Sunni fanatics and they hate all Shias, including the Houthis.

In Yemen, al-Qaeda seems to be the only force capable of confronting the rebels on the ground.

On Thursday, their ranks were swollen by a jailbreak of dozens of convicted al-Qaeda fighters. Soon they will be rallying the Sunni tribes to join forces and fight the Houthis from the North.

And all the while, the Americans look on from afar, in despair.

Until just a few weeks ago they thought they had a reliable partner in President Hadi. President Obama even held up Yemen as a shining example of a counter-terrorism partnership.

Now that partnership has crumbled to dust, and so too have Yemen's immediate hopes of emerging from this intractable nightmare.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32178058

Fighting in Yemen is intensifying.





I was always found it bizarre that islamist terrorism occurs almost entirely by sunni muslims instead of shia muslims yet we are geopolitically aligned with sunni muslim nations.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
April 04 2015 01:23 GMT
#36168
On April 04 2015 10:16 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2015 10:05 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:37 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:35 cLutZ wrote:
Just so long as you understand that that involves people being sent to jail or killed for disagreeing with you.

No it doesn't? You can't go to jail in a civil case and not one is going to die because of a civil case. You are just wrong.

you can go to jail for willful violation of a civil court order.

You have to try really hard and they don't send you to jail for a money judgment, which is what he is talking about. He is making a totally hyperbolic argument that being sued for discrimination will lead to armed assaults on pizza places to force them to cater gay weddings.

they will send you to jail for violating an injunction, which is what will happen if you commit civil rights abuses like you all are discussing.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
April 04 2015 01:25 GMT
#36169
On April 04 2015 10:18 Introvert wrote:
It's a bad argument anyway, as business owners they probably pay more in taxes than any one of their customers. In that case refusing service only hurts their bottom line.


the underlying point is that businesses depend on society. They don't exist in a vacuum, so there are limitations to their freedom, religious or whatever. Providing an environment for businesses to flourish is a communal task, and so they have to play by the rules.
Soap
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Brazil1546 Posts
April 04 2015 01:28 GMT
#36170
There is no logical way to discuss how restaurants should be forced to host weddings.
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4951 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-04 01:32:09
April 04 2015 01:29 GMT
#36171
The rules are the things under discussion. And they do have limitations. Quite a few in fact. There are lots of lots of laws in this country, and many of them apply to business.


But going the tax route doesn't work. The businesses (and/or their owners) contribute just as much as everyone else.

That's all.
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-04 02:02:16
April 04 2015 01:29 GMT
#36172
On April 04 2015 10:23 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2015 10:16 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:05 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:37 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:35 cLutZ wrote:
Just so long as you understand that that involves people being sent to jail or killed for disagreeing with you.

No it doesn't? You can't go to jail in a civil case and not one is going to die because of a civil case. You are just wrong.

you can go to jail for willful violation of a civil court order.

You have to try really hard and they don't send you to jail for a money judgment, which is what he is talking about. He is making a totally hyperbolic argument that being sued for discrimination will lead to armed assaults on pizza places to force them to cater gay weddings.

they will send you to jail for violating an injunction, which is what will happen if you commit civil rights abuses like you all are discussing.

Edit: Was incorrect.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
April 04 2015 01:39 GMT
#36173
On April 04 2015 10:18 Livelovedie wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 04 2015 09:38 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Anyways, I would like to bring up the ongoing issue of Yemen.

Show nested quote +
The Romans had a name for Yemen.
They called it Arabia Felix - Happy Arabia - because of its lush, rain-fed mountain scenery.

Today that epithet sounds tragically inappropriate.

Already the poorest country in the Middle East, wracked by soaring unemployment, dwindling oil and water reserves and home to the most dangerous branch of al-Qaeda, now Yemen is being torn apart by war of many sides.

The Saudi-led air strikes began last month, raining down precision-guided missiles on a rebel group called the Houthis who swept down from their mountain stronghold in the far north six months ago, taking town after town, and pushing out the UN-recognised President Hadi.

That alarmed the Saudis and the other Gulf Arab states, especially as they suspect the hand of Iran as being behind the Houthis' spectacular blitzkrieg.

How else, Saudis keep saying to me, could an impoverished group of tribesmen get the training, the weapons and the money to take over half the country?

There's a sectarian angle here too. The Houthi rebels are Zaidi Shias, representing about a third of the population. The Saudi rulers are suspicious of Shias, many of whom look to Iran for spiritual leadership.

Saudi Arabia is a predominately Sunni Muslim country and the Saudis are starting to think they're getting encircled by proxies of Iran wherever they look: in Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and now Yemen.

Enough, they said, drawing a line in the sand. At a secret summit in a Saudi palace last month they threw together a 10-nation coalition in a belated and possibly doomed Gulf Arab attempt to turn back the Houthi takeover of Yemen and restore their ally to power.

Change of presidents

But in fact the Houthis largely owe their military success to someone much closer to home. They've formed an alliance of convenience, a sort of pact with the devil, with the very man who tried to bomb them out of existence five years ago.

Ali Abdullah Saleh ruled first North Yemen, then a unified Yemen, for 35 years, until he was forced out of power by the Arab Spring protests.

He refused to believe that Yemen was better off without him. So he set about wrecking the peaceful political transition of power that Yemen's friends had worked so hard to engineer.

Whole units of the Republican Guard remained loyal to him, bombs went off and towns were fought over.

President Hadi who replaced him, an elderly, genial southerner, has been no match for Saleh's machinations. He must be rueing the day he agreed to let his predecessor stay on in Yemen.

I interviewed Saleh once, in his fortified palace in the capital, Sanaa. It did not go well.

Speaking in Arabic without a translator, I asked him what he wanted his legacy to be.

The unification of North and South Yemen, of course, he replied, this was his crowning achievement. I thought I would soften him up by asking what benefits this had brought, but the way I said it in Arabic came out as 'well what was the point of that?'

What? he barked, glaring at me furiously, summoning his official translator, and looking pointedly at his watch.

Effective fighters

As president, Saleh fought six short wars against the Houthis until it ended in an uneasy truce. Now he's cynically using them to destroy those who he sees as usurping his power.

The Houthis are fierce, effective fighters, used to living on little in the black, volcanic mountains that straddle the Saudi-Yemeni border.

When I visited them in their stronghold city of Saada my girlfriend and I were woken on our first morning by a burst of heavy machinegun fire from a pickup truck outside in the street.

"It is celebration," said the man on reception, unfazed. Later we met a pair of brothers who took us out to the mountains to show off their skills with a Kalashnikov.

Chewing the narcotic qat leaf and racing across the desert in a beaten-up old car, they thought it was the biggest joke to swap places behind the wheel while driving at 60 miles an hour.

Their shooting was every bit as wild as their driving and before long a farmer emerged, shouting and cursing. "What the hell are you doing?" he said. "Bullets are coming down all around my sheep!"

Sunni fanatics

I have no idea what dizzy heights those two rose to after that in Yemen's tribal hierarchy, but the Houthis and their allies are now in control of most of the important parts of Yemen, despite more than a week of airstrikes.

If those fail to dislodge them then the Saudis have not ruled out a ground invasion, but everyone knows that carries enormous risks of getting bogged down into a vulnerable army of occupation.

Instead, the Houthis face a more dangerous foe - the jihadists of al-Qaeda. The jihadists are Sunni fanatics and they hate all Shias, including the Houthis.

In Yemen, al-Qaeda seems to be the only force capable of confronting the rebels on the ground.

On Thursday, their ranks were swollen by a jailbreak of dozens of convicted al-Qaeda fighters. Soon they will be rallying the Sunni tribes to join forces and fight the Houthis from the North.

And all the while, the Americans look on from afar, in despair.

Until just a few weeks ago they thought they had a reliable partner in President Hadi. President Obama even held up Yemen as a shining example of a counter-terrorism partnership.

Now that partnership has crumbled to dust, and so too have Yemen's immediate hopes of emerging from this intractable nightmare.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-32178058

Fighting in Yemen is intensifying.





I was always found it bizarre that islamist terrorism occurs almost entirely by sunni muslims instead of shia muslims yet we are geopolitically aligned with sunni muslim nations.

sunni is much more common than shia, so that accounts for a lot (maybe all) of that difference.
As to geopolitical alignment, that's more an accident of history I'd say. If history had turned out a little different, I could easily see US allied with Iran and against Saudis. Seeing as neither one would be an alliance of true friendship and values, but simply someone to ally with in the area.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
April 04 2015 01:48 GMT
#36174
On April 04 2015 10:29 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2015 10:23 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:16 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:05 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:37 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:35 cLutZ wrote:
Just so long as you understand that that involves people being sent to jail or killed for disagreeing with you.

No it doesn't? You can't go to jail in a civil case and not one is going to die because of a civil case. You are just wrong.

you can go to jail for willful violation of a civil court order.

You have to try really hard and they don't send you to jail for a money judgment, which is what he is talking about. He is making a totally hyperbolic argument that being sued for discrimination will lead to armed assaults on pizza places to force them to cater gay weddings.

they will send you to jail for violating an injunction, which is what will happen if you commit civil rights abuses like you all are discussing.

Do you honestly believe a judge is going to issue an injunction to force a restaurant to cater a gay wedding? That anyone would seek a injunction and not just seek monetary damages? That people are going to force homophobic people to cater their wedding?

Is this really something we are worried about? Because it sounds like a pretty terrible wedding. We are not forcing the integration of schools here, we are talking about serving people cake and dinner.

they are likely to issue an injunction saying not to discriminate, and if they refuse, then they will likely shut down the business.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
April 04 2015 01:50 GMT
#36175
On April 04 2015 10:29 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2015 10:23 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:16 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:05 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:37 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:35 cLutZ wrote:
Just so long as you understand that that involves people being sent to jail or killed for disagreeing with you.

No it doesn't? You can't go to jail in a civil case and not one is going to die because of a civil case. You are just wrong.

you can go to jail for willful violation of a civil court order.

You have to try really hard and they don't send you to jail for a money judgment, which is what he is talking about. He is making a totally hyperbolic argument that being sued for discrimination will lead to armed assaults on pizza places to force them to cater gay weddings.

they will send you to jail for violating an injunction, which is what will happen if you commit civil rights abuses like you all are discussing.

Do you honestly believe a judge is going to issue an injunction to force a restaurant to cater a gay wedding? That anyone would seek a injunction and not just seek monetary damages? That people are going to force homophobic people to cater their wedding?

Is this really something we are worried about? Because it sounds like a pretty terrible wedding. We are not forcing the integration of schools here, we are talking about serving people cake and dinner.


The whole thing started because this actually happened in a different state than Indiana (not pizza, cake, I think).
Freeeeeeedom
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-04 01:59:09
April 04 2015 01:54 GMT
#36176
On April 04 2015 10:48 dAPhREAk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2015 10:29 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:23 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:16 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:05 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:37 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:35 cLutZ wrote:
Just so long as you understand that that involves people being sent to jail or killed for disagreeing with you.

No it doesn't? You can't go to jail in a civil case and not one is going to die because of a civil case. You are just wrong.

you can go to jail for willful violation of a civil court order.

You have to try really hard and they don't send you to jail for a money judgment, which is what he is talking about. He is making a totally hyperbolic argument that being sued for discrimination will lead to armed assaults on pizza places to force them to cater gay weddings.

they will send you to jail for violating an injunction, which is what will happen if you commit civil rights abuses like you all are discussing.

Do you honestly believe a judge is going to issue an injunction to force a restaurant to cater a gay wedding? That anyone would seek a injunction and not just seek monetary damages? That people are going to force homophobic people to cater their wedding?

Is this really something we are worried about? Because it sounds like a pretty terrible wedding. We are not forcing the integration of schools here, we are talking about serving people cake and dinner.

they are likely to issue an injunction saying not to discriminate, and if they refuse, then they will likely shut down the business.

Edit: All Right, I looked up the case and stand corrected. I was 100% incorrect. I was not aware of the cake case in Colorado. Not really that upset about it either.

On April 04 2015 10:50 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2015 10:29 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:23 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:16 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:05 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:37 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:35 cLutZ wrote:
Just so long as you understand that that involves people being sent to jail or killed for disagreeing with you.

No it doesn't? You can't go to jail in a civil case and not one is going to die because of a civil case. You are just wrong.

you can go to jail for willful violation of a civil court order.

You have to try really hard and they don't send you to jail for a money judgment, which is what he is talking about. He is making a totally hyperbolic argument that being sued for discrimination will lead to armed assaults on pizza places to force them to cater gay weddings.

they will send you to jail for violating an injunction, which is what will happen if you commit civil rights abuses like you all are discussing.

Do you honestly believe a judge is going to issue an injunction to force a restaurant to cater a gay wedding? That anyone would seek a injunction and not just seek monetary damages? That people are going to force homophobic people to cater their wedding?

Is this really something we are worried about? Because it sounds like a pretty terrible wedding. We are not forcing the integration of schools here, we are talking about serving people cake and dinner.


The whole thing started because this actually happened in a different state than Indiana (not pizza, cake, I think).


You are correct and I was wrong about the facts of the case. I still don't feel bad for them, as I have zero tolerance for homophobic people.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
April 04 2015 02:04 GMT
#36177
On April 04 2015 10:54 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2015 10:48 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:29 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:23 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:16 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:05 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:37 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:35 cLutZ wrote:
Just so long as you understand that that involves people being sent to jail or killed for disagreeing with you.

No it doesn't? You can't go to jail in a civil case and not one is going to die because of a civil case. You are just wrong.

you can go to jail for willful violation of a civil court order.

You have to try really hard and they don't send you to jail for a money judgment, which is what he is talking about. He is making a totally hyperbolic argument that being sued for discrimination will lead to armed assaults on pizza places to force them to cater gay weddings.

they will send you to jail for violating an injunction, which is what will happen if you commit civil rights abuses like you all are discussing.

Do you honestly believe a judge is going to issue an injunction to force a restaurant to cater a gay wedding? That anyone would seek a injunction and not just seek monetary damages? That people are going to force homophobic people to cater their wedding?

Is this really something we are worried about? Because it sounds like a pretty terrible wedding. We are not forcing the integration of schools here, we are talking about serving people cake and dinner.

they are likely to issue an injunction saying not to discriminate, and if they refuse, then they will likely shut down the business.

Edit: All Right, I looked up the case and stand corrected. I was 100% incorrect. I was not aware of the cake case in Colorado. Not really that upset about it either.

Show nested quote +
On April 04 2015 10:50 cLutZ wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:29 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:23 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:16 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:05 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:37 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:35 cLutZ wrote:
Just so long as you understand that that involves people being sent to jail or killed for disagreeing with you.

No it doesn't? You can't go to jail in a civil case and not one is going to die because of a civil case. You are just wrong.

you can go to jail for willful violation of a civil court order.

You have to try really hard and they don't send you to jail for a money judgment, which is what he is talking about. He is making a totally hyperbolic argument that being sued for discrimination will lead to armed assaults on pizza places to force them to cater gay weddings.

they will send you to jail for violating an injunction, which is what will happen if you commit civil rights abuses like you all are discussing.

Do you honestly believe a judge is going to issue an injunction to force a restaurant to cater a gay wedding? That anyone would seek a injunction and not just seek monetary damages? That people are going to force homophobic people to cater their wedding?

Is this really something we are worried about? Because it sounds like a pretty terrible wedding. We are not forcing the integration of schools here, we are talking about serving people cake and dinner.


The whole thing started because this actually happened in a different state than Indiana (not pizza, cake, I think).


You are correct and I was wrong about the facts of the case. I still don't feel bad for them, as I have zero tolerance for homophobic people.

lmao, that's such sjw bullshit. god forbid people don't feel comfortable in a group of people they can't relate to.
liftlift > tsm
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
April 04 2015 02:12 GMT
#36178
On April 04 2015 10:54 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2015 10:48 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:29 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:23 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:16 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:05 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:37 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:35 cLutZ wrote:
Just so long as you understand that that involves people being sent to jail or killed for disagreeing with you.

No it doesn't? You can't go to jail in a civil case and not one is going to die because of a civil case. You are just wrong.

you can go to jail for willful violation of a civil court order.

You have to try really hard and they don't send you to jail for a money judgment, which is what he is talking about. He is making a totally hyperbolic argument that being sued for discrimination will lead to armed assaults on pizza places to force them to cater gay weddings.

they will send you to jail for violating an injunction, which is what will happen if you commit civil rights abuses like you all are discussing.

Do you honestly believe a judge is going to issue an injunction to force a restaurant to cater a gay wedding? That anyone would seek a injunction and not just seek monetary damages? That people are going to force homophobic people to cater their wedding?

Is this really something we are worried about? Because it sounds like a pretty terrible wedding. We are not forcing the integration of schools here, we are talking about serving people cake and dinner.

they are likely to issue an injunction saying not to discriminate, and if they refuse, then they will likely shut down the business.

Edit: All Right, I looked up the case and stand corrected. I was 100% incorrect. I was not aware of the cake case in Colorado. Not really that upset about it either.

Show nested quote +
On April 04 2015 10:50 cLutZ wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:29 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:23 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:16 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:05 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:37 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:35 cLutZ wrote:
Just so long as you understand that that involves people being sent to jail or killed for disagreeing with you.

No it doesn't? You can't go to jail in a civil case and not one is going to die because of a civil case. You are just wrong.

you can go to jail for willful violation of a civil court order.

You have to try really hard and they don't send you to jail for a money judgment, which is what he is talking about. He is making a totally hyperbolic argument that being sued for discrimination will lead to armed assaults on pizza places to force them to cater gay weddings.

they will send you to jail for violating an injunction, which is what will happen if you commit civil rights abuses like you all are discussing.

Do you honestly believe a judge is going to issue an injunction to force a restaurant to cater a gay wedding? That anyone would seek a injunction and not just seek monetary damages? That people are going to force homophobic people to cater their wedding?

Is this really something we are worried about? Because it sounds like a pretty terrible wedding. We are not forcing the integration of schools here, we are talking about serving people cake and dinner.


The whole thing started because this actually happened in a different state than Indiana (not pizza, cake, I think).


You are correct and I was wrong about the facts of the case. I still don't feel bad for them, as I have zero tolerance for homophobic people.


I understand the stance you've taken. With this kind of thing, however, you do have to recite a limiting principle. Does a Jewish baker need to make a "Jihad" cake? Democratic sign-maker have to make signs for Republican candidates? Packers fan make a Bears bumper sticker? If you do use the phrase "protected class" in your answer, it should also contain a definition of what a protected class is and why thats a good definition.
Freeeeeeedom
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-04 02:22:00
April 04 2015 02:21 GMT
#36179
Here in Germany the 'equal treatment' law only applies if there is no factual or reasonable objection and the discrimination happens repeatedly. So orders which are in itself discriminatory probably fall into the first category.

It's really a common sense thing. If you run a racist club that only allows white people in you're doing something illegal. If a person goes into a bakery and wants a Swastika cake that's not going to hold up in a court.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-04 02:23:35
April 04 2015 02:21 GMT
#36180
On April 04 2015 11:12 cLutZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2015 10:54 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:48 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:29 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:23 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:16 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:05 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:37 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:35 cLutZ wrote:
Just so long as you understand that that involves people being sent to jail or killed for disagreeing with you.

No it doesn't? You can't go to jail in a civil case and not one is going to die because of a civil case. You are just wrong.

you can go to jail for willful violation of a civil court order.

You have to try really hard and they don't send you to jail for a money judgment, which is what he is talking about. He is making a totally hyperbolic argument that being sued for discrimination will lead to armed assaults on pizza places to force them to cater gay weddings.

they will send you to jail for violating an injunction, which is what will happen if you commit civil rights abuses like you all are discussing.

Do you honestly believe a judge is going to issue an injunction to force a restaurant to cater a gay wedding? That anyone would seek a injunction and not just seek monetary damages? That people are going to force homophobic people to cater their wedding?

Is this really something we are worried about? Because it sounds like a pretty terrible wedding. We are not forcing the integration of schools here, we are talking about serving people cake and dinner.

they are likely to issue an injunction saying not to discriminate, and if they refuse, then they will likely shut down the business.

Edit: All Right, I looked up the case and stand corrected. I was 100% incorrect. I was not aware of the cake case in Colorado. Not really that upset about it either.

On April 04 2015 10:50 cLutZ wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:29 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:23 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:16 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 10:05 dAPhREAk wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:37 Plansix wrote:
On April 04 2015 09:35 cLutZ wrote:
Just so long as you understand that that involves people being sent to jail or killed for disagreeing with you.

No it doesn't? You can't go to jail in a civil case and not one is going to die because of a civil case. You are just wrong.

you can go to jail for willful violation of a civil court order.

You have to try really hard and they don't send you to jail for a money judgment, which is what he is talking about. He is making a totally hyperbolic argument that being sued for discrimination will lead to armed assaults on pizza places to force them to cater gay weddings.

they will send you to jail for violating an injunction, which is what will happen if you commit civil rights abuses like you all are discussing.

Do you honestly believe a judge is going to issue an injunction to force a restaurant to cater a gay wedding? That anyone would seek a injunction and not just seek monetary damages? That people are going to force homophobic people to cater their wedding?

Is this really something we are worried about? Because it sounds like a pretty terrible wedding. We are not forcing the integration of schools here, we are talking about serving people cake and dinner.


The whole thing started because this actually happened in a different state than Indiana (not pizza, cake, I think).


You are correct and I was wrong about the facts of the case. I still don't feel bad for them, as I have zero tolerance for homophobic people.


I understand the stance you've taken. With this kind of thing, however, you do have to recite a limiting principle. Does a Jewish baker need to make a "Jihad" cake? Democratic sign-maker have to make signs for Republican candidates? Packers fan make a Bears bumper sticker? If you do use the phrase "protected class" in your answer, it should also contain a definition of what a protected class is and why thats a good definition.



well i think it would be pretty easy to draw a line in regards to terrorists and hate groups. the rest would be fuzzy though. still though there doesn't have to be an objective line it can be handled on a case to case basis
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
Prev 1 1807 1808 1809 1810 1811 10093 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
2026 GSL S1: Ro12 Group A
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft299
RuFF_SC2 212
NeuroSwarm 190
ProTech119
PattyMac 32
PiLiPiLi 28
StarCraft: Brood War
NaDa 76
Mind 69
ZergMaN 10
Icarus 6
League of Legends
JimRising 619
Counter-Strike
taco 1081
Other Games
summit1g7259
monkeys_forever549
C9.Mang0529
WinterStarcraft503
ViBE58
ToD3
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1211
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream85
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• OhrlRock 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt261
Other Games
• Scarra1479
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 48m
RSL Revival
5h 48m
Classic vs GgMaChine
Rogue vs Maru
WardiTV Invitational
6h 48m
Percival vs Shameless
ByuN vs YoungYakov
IPSL
11h 48m
Ret vs Art_Of_Turtle
Radley vs TBD
BSL
14h 48m
Replay Cast
19h 48m
RSL Revival
1d 5h
herO vs TriGGeR
NightMare vs Solar
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 9h
BSL
1d 14h
IPSL
1d 14h
eOnzErG vs TBD
G5 vs Nesh
[ Show More ]
Patches Events
1d 19h
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Jaedong vs Light
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Snow vs Flash
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
GSL
4 days
Classic vs Cure
Maru vs Rogue
GSL
5 days
SHIN vs Zoun
ByuN vs herO
OSC
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Escore
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W5
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
KK 2v2 League Season 1
Acropolis #4
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.