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The subject of this thread is not a license to roll out your inaccurate, misinformed, poorly conceived, tired, and downright offensive theories about race relations. |
On March 09 2012 11:07 Perseverance wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 11:03 holycrapitsTony wrote:On March 09 2012 11:00 NachiMe wrote:On March 09 2012 10:55 Xann wrote:On March 09 2012 10:49 Rorschach wrote:On March 09 2012 10:41 Xann wrote:
i'm still waiting for orb's apology, the white man continues to spread their hatred and racism while black men such as myself are hurt despite the hundreds of years of brutality i've had to suffer. The white man should be ashamed how old are you? hundreds of years of brutality? And this persecution happened to you personally? What day and age are you living in? lol? Sorry but I won't let the white man sweep racism under the rug... actions have consequences, and orb should pay the consequences of his inflamatory remarks on my race. I'm asian and I really don't give a fuck about racism that happened to "my" race. And yes, there has been a lot of it. What's done is done, most people don't think like this now (or are trying to be politcally correct) so step down your horse. *you* did not suffer hundreds of years of brutality. Your ancestors did. Grow up. To be honest I would love to be black instead of asian because of all the affirmitive action that goes on here. Easy ivy league if I was black, hard ivy league if I was asian. Alert: An anonymous Asian man doesn't care about what happened to his ancestors, it's now okay to mock and insult all asians. I'll be sure to find a Jew that doesn't care about the Holocaust so that can be okay too. Thank god somebody gets it...
Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 11:08 Dental Floss wrote:On March 09 2012 11:07 Chessz wrote:
List of things this whole fiasco is NOT actually about, which nobody really gives a fuck about:
1) whether or not orb is actually racist
2) how "offensive" it is to say racist words on a "personal" stream
3) how the semantics of the word has changed, or how other streamers/casters have used bad words
What this is about, why the community has had such a response:
1) race issues are still precedent in today's society and resonate with people. It's pretty clear language is still a very powerful tool
2) professionalism of our community members and their obligation to represent the community responsibly
3) How our gaming culture is evolving into something where our trash talking is more civilized and doesn't use racial or homophobic slurs to strengthen attacks. When a person in the public eye does it, it matters. Whether or not people agree with that (or should agree) is a big hurdle.
4) Ultimately, the recourse is EG's and EG's alone. This is spot on. People who are saying they don't understand why so many posters are angry aren't understanding the real topic being discussed. Its more than one person. Its about a whole community.
yeah thank god some people get it
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On March 09 2012 10:48 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Sheth and White-Ra seen laughing at scared kitten!
I really hope you have a chat log, screenshot and/or some reddit comments confirming it. But clearly you think torture of animals is ok? I'm sure your boss will think just the same way, and be very pleased to be informed that what you're talking about in public forums. Enjoy being fired, ******.
Sorry but I'm just sick and tired of people like you.
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_31pkKo1p7mE/TDD8Lca7ltI/AAAAAAAAAAU/QYlWDg8SCME/s320/vivisection_apr_05.jpg) I'm actually feeling sick after browsing for that image... wtf are we doing
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On March 09 2012 10:59 ReturnStroke wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:56 oNouR wrote:
who the fuck cares, i didnt even know who this orb person was till this stupid thread.. EG's sponsors and management care. You not knowing who orb is really doesn't matter.
Idra has been just as mad, and just as obscene as everything listed in the OP. Why no big backlash against him? He says "fuck" and calls people "fag" pretty frequently, but you don't see EG's sponsers jumping ship.
Honestly, we all need to stop getting upset over words. Not just in this case, but in general. Words only hurt if you let them. Getting offended is a choice.
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Im not sure why anyone cares, Destiny constantly uses it on his stream. Even if it is him, its just ladder BM. Who cares? I certainly dont see this to be a reason for such an outrage.
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On March 09 2012 11:08 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 11:07 Chessz wrote:
List of things this whole fiasco is NOT actually about, which nobody really gives a fuck about:
1) whether or not orb is actually racist
2) how "offensive" it is to say racist words on a "personal" stream
3) how the semantics of the word has changed, or how other streamers/casters have used bad words
What this is about, why the community has had such a response:
1) race issues are still precedent in today's society and resonate with people. It's pretty clear language is still a very powerful tool
2) professionalism of our community members and their obligation to represent the community responsibly
3) How our gaming culture is evolving into something where our trash talking is more civilized and doesn't use racial or homophobic slurs to strengthen attacks. When a person in the public eye does it, it matters. Whether or not people agree with that (or should agree) is a big hurdle.
4) Ultimately, the recourse is EG's and EG's alone. This is spot on. People who are saying they don't understand why so many posters are angry aren't understanding the real topic being discussed. Its more than one person. Its about a whole community.
Well, what do you want? If you go by the numbers, you've got Destiny, in all his glory, STILL raking in the viewers. That's like almost half the community.
So how about you people stop fantasizing about what kind of "community" you've really built.
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Seriously,this is such a retarted witch hunt. I've watched Orb in Korean Weeklies for more than 6 months and through all of it he's been completely professional and a really good caster. And even if he's bad-mouthed some people on ladder,no one really bothered. But now that he's gone mainstream and got a big chance with EG everybody started acting out because of some words over the internet which were obviously not meant as a racial slur. It's as if everyone started demanding that EG got rid of Idra cause he called players on the ladder "faggots",thus disrespecting the gay Starcraft community. I mean really, I've expected this kinda of stuff from Reddit,but the amount of people here who believe that orb should get fired over this is really depressing.
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On March 09 2012 11:10 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:59 ReturnStroke wrote:On March 09 2012 10:56 oNouR wrote:
who the fuck cares, i didnt even know who this orb person was till this stupid thread.. EG's sponsors and management care. You not knowing who orb is really doesn't matter. Idra has been just as mad, and just as obscene as everything listed in the OP. Why no big backlash against him? He says "fuck" and calls people "fag" pretty frequently, but you don't see EG's sponsers jumping ship. Honestly, we all need to stop getting upset over words. Not just in this case, but in general. Words only hurt if you let them. Getting offended is a choice.
Because its easier to pick on the "little" guy that just got hired
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Pretty sure this is being blown way out of proportion, but whatever. I don't think orb should be being shit on because of his usage of the term "nigger" - other streamers do that quite a bit as well. I do think he should be reprimanded for lying, but this is quite ridiculous.
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There are too many posts in this thread that just don't get it. This isn't about racism, homophobia, or whatever.
It's about professionalism. Orb acted like a child and will be punished accordingly by his employers. There isn't much more to this.
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this is outrageous. Are we as a community going to attempt to ruin one persons career for his use of a word? A word that is used daily on Destiny's stream, a stream loved by many, and never even question Destiny?
Shit's wack.
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On March 09 2012 11:04 ReturnStroke wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 11:01 CygNus X-1 wrote:
I wonder how EG Masters cup chat is going to be tonight .... Yeah, i was just thinking about what it meant for EGMC. I guess we'll find out soon.
EWW I read this as EG.MC and I cried TT
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What is funny is if all the closet racists defending their right to use offensive immature language would not post, the thread would not be half as long.
Obviously a large part of the vocal video game community considers the internet like their local country club where they can be openly racist, homophobic and misogynistic in peace. Too bad, as these games become more mainstream and different demographic start to enjoy it, you ll have to grow up and tune down your racist, anti women or anti gay language (whether you actually are racist or not) if you represent an important organization.
Naniwa may not understand how disrespectful his attitude was and the outrage in Korea, but he ll have to understand he is not just some kid playing in his room anymore.
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OMG machine and iNcontroL casting for EGMCSL :O
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I mean C'mon Xann, i hate to venture out so far into someone's own psychie, but truth be told even you have to be thinking to yourself what the crap am i talking about when i say that "I've faced hundreds of years of brutality".....lets keep this thread on track now, and stop getting on our high horses and looking down at people just because you happen to be black and this thread deals with the N word, white people are offended by the behavior too man.
Actually i think that most here are more disappointed by the lieing of orb....because that game everyone's talking about, i was in....where he called the guy a nigger and told him to have fun killing his buildings while he went to get a drink, i was in the stream crowd and remember it.....lieing about it doesnt help anyone, most people would have probably given him the benefit of the doubt if he just said
"well guys...i messed up, that was when i was trying to put on more of a show just as a streamer before i got supported by any official organisations, i'm very sorry for my comments, they were in bad taste, and I will never get carried away like that in public again"....and we could all move on, it's the lieing that i think we're all hung up on
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On March 09 2012 11:06 JeanLuc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 10:55 VanGarde wrote:On March 09 2012 10:48 Xcobidoo wrote:On March 09 2012 10:41 VanGarde wrote:On March 09 2012 10:38 Dental Floss wrote:On March 09 2012 10:35 VanGarde wrote:On March 09 2012 10:29 Dental Floss wrote:On March 09 2012 10:20 VanGarde wrote:
Really? I have one problem with this discussion and it is that racism is dragged into it.
The words means nothing it is bm and that is all that is relevant to discuss, if you want to discuss whether or not a caster should bad manner on stream and on ladder that is one thing. Surely everyone is aware that orb tends to bm.
But I find it terribly overzealous how people jump on certain words. People who are angry and bm use different words that can be taboo, powerful or generally disliked. It is the point of using words in that way. Someone using nigger to curse at someone does not mean that they are actually a racist, someone using the word faggot to bm someone is not necessarily anti gay any less than someone who uses cunt to curse thinks that vaginas are something to be avoided.
Sure, debate whether or not orb should bm but just get over the bullshit about different words because it does not mean anything, guess what, my brother and a close friend of mine are homosexual and I use faggot when I curse, even around them. It does not mean anything in a context like this. If words mean nothing then your post means nothing. The context of words means something. The fact that people can't see a difference between "That retard faggot cannon rushed me eleven times in a row" and "I hate how the fucking faggots can still get married in some states" is the problem. Hmm, thats a really good point. I hadn't thought of that. Man, it'd be crazy if there was a context where black people have been oppressed, murdered, and enslaved for hundreds of years by brutal imperialists. You'd sure look like a heel calling people "dumb niggers" if that were the case. The problem with this reasoning is again the complete lack of balance. This shit only happens when people use the words nigger and fag, and in there lies the bias. When IdrA calls someone a retard no one stands up and say that this is offensive to mentally challenged people. When someone calls someone a cunt or a pussy there is no one who starts a thread about how this disrespects all women. The reason people don't do that is that even people who think that we should censor society to get rid of "bad" words that could offend people realize that if you push that line of reasoning to its limits you can barely use words at all because there is always someone who will be offended by something. If we're really going to rank insulting words here then there's a huge difference between the N-word, F-word and retard. In the recent centuries mentally challenged people were not enslaved and seen as animals whose only purpose was to serve another race. Regarding the F-word, homosexuals still don't have any rights whatsoever in many parts of the world while a lot of effort is being put into making the world a better place for disabled people wether it be mentally or physically. In that context (the world we live in) my friend, those words are unacceptable and should not be uttered. When, where and if the people hearing care is a totally different thing altogether. See it is when you start to try and rationalize which words are okay and not with social circumstance and even historical circumstance that it becomes evident how futile it is to do this. One could easily argue that women are one of the most oppressed groups in the world today, in large parts of the world women have little or no rights at all. Should not bitch or cunt be ranked higher on the list then? No because this list is arbitrary and a just a haphazard result of social interaction. But you are not going to reach me arguing over why certain words should "not be uttered" because I would have to ascribe to the belief that we should monitor and control language based on offensiveness. I don't believe that it matters in the slightest if a group has been oppressed historically. Saying nigger is inconsequential to this. If someone on the other hand goes out and argues that black people should be enslaved again, yeah then there you have something to be offended about. I actually find it dangerous that people can't draw distinctions between these two. I also uphold the freedom of speech-- but I also uphold the freedom of the public to say "we don't like this public figure acting like a complete jackass". No one is saying orb should suffer any legal penalty lol. But the reputation of himself and EG is tarnished in the eyes of a lot of people by these comments. Are you saying there is nothing he could say that would make you disinclined to listen to his casts in the future? Personally I never found his casting style that entertaining or enlightening and this basically seals the deal for me (in terms of ignoring any content he would put forth).
Oh that is a completely different discussion though. I absolutely think that this is not appropriate behavior for a caster in an official position. I am not for a second defending orb, I am just saying that it is absolutely insignificant to me which words he used. The point is the bm'ing with very strong words and that might not be entirely appropriate in an official position, I don't like IdrA doing it either. My only point is that I dislike how racism is dragged into this by focusing on specific words. If people want to argue whether it is actually appropriate what he did regardless of which words he used that is a different thing.
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On March 09 2012 11:08 Doomwish wrote:
just heard from scoots on onemoregame , ORB will not be casting the EGMCS tonight. looks like he is gone.
ugh i hope he is just letting him take a break and not actually kicked off. So stupid to have something going well for you like casting for the EGMCSL ruined because of a minority getting upset about the language of a guy whens hes raging. The funniest part is that most if not all of the people demanding justice are white.
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On March 09 2012 09:08 Huggerz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 09:04 theBizness wrote:
Don't really care. We should probably be more interested in why certain casters get paid more than tournament winners. Casters get paid more because they draw viewers in more than a lot of players few people care about, in short. This should be kind of obvious to anyone who even briefly analyses the situation
It's not a sustainable model. What other form of entertainment (actual sports) pays the casters more than the players? And here I was thinking I watched tournaments you know, to see high level play - apparently I'm in them for crappy jokes and tacky t-shirts.
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I'm a little disappointed because I'm a fan of Orbs. If this were an isolated incident I wouldn't mind one bit, but it is clear that he has issues (if accusations are true). Why he is playing the race card against someone beating him in SC2 is down right silly.
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On March 09 2012 11:05 MWY wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 11:03 cameler wrote:
Well, I know one thing.
A white man can NOT use the N word in public.... anywhere... and doing it behind the safety of your computer monitor makes you look like a complete pussy, mr.orb.
This is the sign of a real weak minded person. Thats racist.
Describing a guy by race is not racist, nor is pointing out the obvious. White guys that use the word nigger as a casual slur over the internet ARE cowards.
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On March 09 2012 11:08 hordala wrote:
I like how some people are saying "why does this matter" ITS a CASTER ACTING PROFESSIONAL you dont go around calling people niggers when you lose thats even lower then ratzdeezer status. This is so much worse then Katsu with playhem its a white kid in america calling people NIGGERS and he wants to be taken seriously is this a joke? Look at his stream TAG IT SAYS ABSOLUTE JUDGMENT LOL come on come on.....
He calls people nigger and says im gonna smoke a bowl and then he feels justified enough too have a stream tag that says absolute judgement
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EPT
