This is a kind of a vague question but list some players you think are talented, specifically defined as one who spends the least amount of time practicing and playing, but can produce great results.
The results could be from winning, or being runner-up in hack-monitored online tourneys such as TLT, GGL, or offline tourneys with prizes such as WCG, ECG, or having a high-rating on PGT (of course, he can't have multiple accounts b/c that means he spends a great deal of time playing).
An example of talented players I guess would be Drone.
An example of a non-talented player would be Androide. I bet he spent a great deal of time playing to build up his apm/keyboard/mouse skills and play like a Korean. Maybe Testie as well.
This topic is pretty strange as you can't possibly know how much people play at all. The only one who knows is very close friends of the player or the player himself. How can you say "I bet he spent a great deal of time playing to build up his apm/keyboard/mouse skills and play like a Korean". Something like that isnt really relevant as some players have the same apm/keyboard/mouse skills no matter how much they play. Some players just have those attributes no matter how long they've played. An example is Testie who many people say play alot, but he's still at an average of 150 or Fisheye who is still on 135, whereas other players come back after havent played in ages and still have around 250 apm.
On April 06 2005 14:50 useless wrote: talented, specifically defined as one who spends the least amount of time practicing and playing, but can produce great results.
Isnt that like asking for someone who is just naturally great at BW?
yea, naturally talented. someone who can adapt to the game with only a minimal amount of game experience.
On April 06 2005 14:49 Guybrush wrote: This topic is pretty strange as you can't possibly know how much people play at all. The only one who knows is very close friends of the player or the player himself. How can you say "I bet he spent a great deal of time playing to build up his apm/keyboard/mouse skills and play like a Korean". Something like that isnt really relevant as some players have the same apm/keyboard/mouse skills no matter how much they play. Some players just have those attributes no matter how long they've played. An example is Testie who many people say play alot, but he's still at an average of 150 or Fisheye who is still on 135, whereas other players come back after havent played in ages and still have around 250 apm.
doesn't all have to be about apm, I'm just picking on androide.
For Testie, he might not have gained skills in apm/keyboard/mouse as much as androide did, but maybe something else such as getting his build order down, or memorizing the best counters for a situation from playing and experiencing many games before.
i should also add only list talented players within the list 2 years b/c the BW skills have increased dramatically and which is the sole reason grrr could not keep up.
Well the situation doesnt change anyway. How can you know how much these players have played ? And talent can be defined in many ways. If you naturally have over 250 apm not playing much you have a talent for that. Also if you win alot of games without playing much you have a talent for bw generally. If you are able to create a strategy of your own(boxer, ra creativity), or find the best possible strategy for a new map after a very short time you have a talent for strategy.
But my question remains: How can you are any other than close rl friends or the player himself know how much he has played ? For all you know the less-playing players could be smurfing 24/7.
that's why i said it's a "vague question" in the first post. it can only be rated by a friend who plays with the talented guy often or rated by the talented guy himself.
I know there are other kinds of talent, but for this post talent is specifically defined as one who spends the least amount of time practicing and playing, but can produce great results
On April 06 2005 15:10 bigMommA wrote: i should also add only list talented players within the list 2 years b/c the BW skills have increased dramatically and which is the sole reason grrr could not keep up.
grrrr... can win any foreigners now -_- he s not good enough now for progaming that s all
There is no way anyone can give an answer to this question.
Even the talented guy himself doesn't know how much other highly skilled gamers play, so he can't draw any conclusion on how much more talented he is over anyone.
In that case, I would say Hellghost, since he's managed to qualify for every wcg, without playing much.(this is only something i've heard thus it may not be true)
Also I think Smuft is very talented especially because of his unique style, and his strategies are similar to nal_ra, (mass cannoning vs z, nice carrier and goon micro etc) His accomplishments are as far as I know mostly TLT, WDT( haha ), winning once vs Yellow in a showgame(TV) in 2001 and qualifying for wcg every time he's participated(he wasnt allowed to come to korea in 2003 because of criminal issues, he was banned the year after(2004) and chose to not attend in 2002).(I dont know how much Smuft plays either)
And I guess Blackman falls under the category of talent for apm/mouse/keyboard skills but also results(3rd wcg 2k2).( Yet again I dont know how much he did play/plays)
yeah i kind of agree with the fact that fa said in that if you want to look at the most "naturally talented" look not so much at the top bw gamers now as they have obviously had to play an exorberant amount of games to get to there level but look more at the users that were able to take their abilitys and push success in other games while staying within the genre...
e.g : Tillerman, Pillars .... possibly although probably the poorest of my examples would be Elky.
Why are people saying Elky? He was a great player, but he got that way through YEARS of practice as well as replays. He was around forever before he got second at WCG and went pro.
On April 06 2005 18:51 Zerius[TPR] wrote: Giyom =|
Slayer, sVEN, Smuft, FisheYe round out the top 5.
Why are people saying Elky? He was a great player, but he got that way through YEARS of practice as well as replays. He was around forever before he got second at WCG and went pro.
why would you not say elky, then say smuft and fisheye?
makes no sense, they all played just as much as elky
On April 06 2005 18:51 Zerius[TPR] wrote: Giyom =|
Slayer, sVEN, Smuft, FisheYe round out the top 5.
Why are people saying Elky? He was a great player, but he got that way through YEARS of practice as well as replays. He was around forever before he got second at WCG and went pro.
why would you not say elky, then say smuft and fisheye?
makes no sense, they all played just as much as elky
Elky now, or Elky then...There's a big difference.
i would like to know who has started to play since 1.08 or so, i started playing in that patch, almost as 1.09 was coming out(ending of 2003), because all top euro is very old school i think? dunno would like to know who is to euro and has started playing around that time
Blackman was a one hit wonder, I really don't know why everyone still talks about him being great, Sure he came 3rd a couple of years ago in WCG but what has he achieved since then ? I don't think he even quallified to the Polish Finals in WCG.
Nobody is talented at anything. You improve by playing more. What seperates the good and the bad is how much they play, and there's no way you could ever know. You're guessing that androide spent a lot of time building up APM, ever consider that better players spend less time on speed and more time on learning the game and analyzing their own plays? I think in Starcraft, because of the high amount of twitch gaming involved, skill depends more on your practice routine then any natural talent.
But, I'd be interested in seeing the IQs of some of the top 10. Estimates for the top chess players go up to 170~, could the same hold for starcraft?
It's true that stupid players never get really good, just to a decent level (madcow).
About this topic, all the players I see mentioned already have their names written in stone, I can't see how you can still consider them 'talented' as they are the 'old pro's'. When you speak of talented players, you speak about up and coming players. That's why this topic would interest me, now it doesn't. It's just another topic of 'top 10 foreign players ever'.
The only one I see mentioned that could be considered a talent is Sen.
thats not what talented means in this thread. we're pretty much talking about what foreign players have had the easiest time becoming good, basically who needed the least help/play to get to the highest level.
EPT
