EPTSo you guys think what I do is lame, yet you lurk all of my posts, and you specifically come into a PUA thread. Lets admit it, you have a secret fetish for my posts. I'll be honest, I do it just for you two.
The PUA community - Page 61
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squattincassanova
United States650 Posts
So you guys think what I do is lame, yet you lurk all of my posts, and you specifically come into a PUA thread. Lets admit it, you have a secret fetish for my posts. I'll be honest, I do it just for you two. | ||
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Catch
United States616 Posts
On December 22 2011 07:48 chenchen wrote: Developing social skills is important. It's good to be able to communicate with others pleasantly and comfortably. Everyone wants to be well liked and approachable. There's probably something wrong with you if you want people to hate you. I do think that it's very very silly to read books and take lesson on getting better "social skills". Like seriously? How juvenile is that? Reading books on how to "talk to people" and "make friends" . . . . I can't take that very seriously. While I don't have any experience with such things, nor do I plan on pursuing any, I get the impression that these books only teach superficial things and appeal to insecure people who are not comfortable with who they are. Like you said, the whole PUA thing was designed to make money off of nerds who are insecure and want girls. Will reading a book and approaching twenty girls at some club with "techniques" and shit get them anywhere? No. It won't. They'll STILL be vastly insecure and, in fact, so insecure, that they'll post their "results" and flaunt them so other nerds can give them much craved attention and approval. And as for girls with self-respect . . . if they really do respect themselves, they don't need other people's approval or interactions with other people to fortify their confidence. They're probably satisfied with aspects of their own life, like their work or interests that they don't need random guys hitting on them in dimly lit places to make themselves feel good. Finally a response that isn't just senseless bashing. But I also don't understand your post. What is wrong with reading books to do this? Let me ask you something. Imagine you are back in school, college specifically. Do you think that is is possible to learn everything you need to know without the aid of books? And often, these books not only give you a good idea on what you need to know, they go in depth on the subject so you can really see the intrinsics, connections, and further tips. To say that reading a social book is dumb is dumb in itself. Why would you not read a book to gain knowledge, esp. on a subject that is so useful to every day life? Sure, something like a science book may be more "complicated", but you are going to use social knowledge more often. Also, since when does something need to be complicated in order to deem it a worthwhile read? The fact is, is that you may understand some concepts within some of these books. These are usually spelled out for you, and allow you to use them to your advantage instead of just hoping they will happen, or stumbling upon them during a conversation. The other side of the coin is there are PLENTY of things that will make you go wow I do that, or wow I didn't know that. For example I am reading an ebook on body language. In one of the chapters, they talked about how people will try and get into the same rhythm, basically building comfort and rapport within the group/area, since people are likely to mirror actions (which builds comfort and all that). What is a prime example of this? Background music. Say you play background music at a party. Everything is more relaxed/comfortable than a stifling silence, where only voices fill in the gaps. This makes it up to the individuals to build comfort themselves, which can be quite hard. Something like a tense business meeting comes to mind. Furthermore, you can't really say that a lot of it is superficial. You haven't even read a book on it. Also, I know you love talking about squattings "insecurities." Whether or not I disagree with you on that is a different matter, but what do you think it says about you when you come in here and bash him senselessly. even going so far as to look through his post history? | ||
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kingcoyote
United States546 Posts
On December 22 2011 08:26 squattincassanova wrote: ChenChen and Visual, you guys should be best friends.... best wingmen ever haha. So you guys think what I do is lame, yet you lurk all of my posts, and you specifically come into a PUA thread. Lets admit it, you have a secret fetish for my posts. I'll be honest, I do it just for you two. It's not secret at all. I openly admitted I love you and the hilarious interactions between you and other members of the PUA community that call you out. I really want you to keep going, because if you left this thread, it would become very, very boring. You may frame it however you want, but I assure you I am laughing *at* you, not *with* you. Call it peacocking, social pressure exercise, or whatever it is you prefer to label it. You do your thing, I'll do mine. | ||
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chenchen
United States1136 Posts
On December 22 2011 08:33 visual77 wrote: It's not secret at all. I openly admitted I love you and the hilarious interactions between you and other members of the PUA community that call you out. I really want you to keep going, because if you left this thread, it would become very, very boring. You may frame it however you want, but I assure you I am laughing *at* you, not *with* you. Call it peacocking, social pressure exercise, or whatever it is you prefer to label it. You do your thing, I'll do mine. Why would I even go into a thread about picking up girls at bars and clubs if squattincasanova weren't posting? It'd just be boring mindless exchange of advice between the less experienced and the more experienced on how to pressure some poor vulnerable girl into putting out. Shit, I don't feel the need to partake in that. Not like I actually post in this thread. I mean I honestly and legitimately enjoy reading your posts. | ||
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squattincassanova
United States650 Posts
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kingcoyote
United States546 Posts
On December 22 2011 08:36 squattincassanova wrote: for a guy who disproves pickup, you sure know a lot of pickup lingo haha I think you're getting me and chenchen confused, assuming that was aimed at me. I never said I disapproved of it, which is also what I assume you meant. I said everything I know about it is from this thread, and that otherwise I am not interested in it at all. Pretty much every bit of lingo I used was mentioned in the past few pages of this thread since I started talking. | ||
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chenchen
United States1136 Posts
On December 22 2011 08:29 Catch wrote: Finally a response that isn't just senseless bashing. But I also don't understand your post. What is wrong with reading books to do this? Let me ask you something. Imagine you are back in school, college specifically. Do you think that is is possible to learn everything you need to know without the aid of books? And often, these books not only give you a good idea on what you need to know, they go in depth on the subject so you can really see the intrinsics, connections, and further tips. To say that reading a social book is dumb is dumb in itself. Why would you not read a book to gain knowledge, esp. on a subject that is so useful to every day life? Sure, something like a science book may be more "complicated", but you are going to use social knowledge more often. Also, since when does something need to be complicated in order to deem it a worthwhile read? The fact is, is that you may understand some concepts within some of these books. These are usually spelled out for you, and allow you to use them to your advantage instead of just hoping they will happen, or stumbling upon them during a conversation. The other side of the coin is there are PLENTY of things that will make you go wow I do that, or wow I didn't know that. For example I am reading an ebook on body language. In one of the chapters, they talked about how people will try and get into the same rhythm, basically building comfort and rapport within the group/area, since people are likely to mirror actions (which builds comfort and all that). What is a prime example of this? Background music. Say you play background music at a party. Everything is more relaxed/comfortable than a stifling silence, where only voices fill in the gaps. This makes it up to the individuals to build comfort themselves, which can be quite hard. Something like a tense business meeting comes to mind. Furthermore, you can't really say that a lot of it is superficial. You haven't even read a book on it. Also, I know you love talking about squattings "insecurities." Whether or not I disagree with you on that is a different matter, but what do you think it says about you when you come in here and bash him senselessly. even going so far as to look through his post history? Yeah I get it, books are awesome. I've read so many books throughout my life. My point was that trying to learn how to interact with people by reading books and following methods and processes . . . feels extremely stilted and superficial to me. I'm not going to straight up insult everyone who's bought a book on social interactions. If I ever feel curious enough, I'll pick one up. I don't love talking about squattincasanova's insecurities. They keep on popping up. It'd be nice if he kept them under control a little as it is silly at best and a little rude at worst. | ||
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chenchen
United States1136 Posts
On December 22 2011 08:36 squattincassanova wrote: for a guy who disproves pickup, you sure know a lot of pickup lingo haha Yeah I don't know any pickup lingo. I mean . . . I know what a wingman is lol. | ||
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Apolo
Portugal1259 Posts
Some people for many reasons weren't exposed to good social examples at home or outside, or spent too much time by themselves, had bad chilldhoods, etc making them lack social skills, namely with the opposite sex. Whether you like or not, we are social beings, and we know how to behave because we are exposed to several social situations. If a person grows without role models, being exposed to the social world, and experience different social situations they won't be able to do that good socially. Of course they would benefit some help on how to behave with others. Things that might be obvious to people that grew up normally among family and friends, might not for a loner. And for those some books teaching social skill theory might be good. They will then have to practice it of course. Then there are those who simple want to meet more chicks. Either way i don't see a problem. The only problem is that there is plenty of bad content out there. People with just their experience selling books that say what they do and what works for them is one of the most common. They come written in the first person and barely anything is useful. "I usually do x, and y, and z if y doesn't work". They also give advices in negative "Don't do X, don't do Y" instead of the positive "Do A, Do B" It's a pain in the ass, trying to generalize a rule from all of their experiences, and put their advice in the positive. That's really what the authors should do. A lot of weird advice and prejudices come at the surface. From calling people with lack of social skills AFC's, or losers (basically calling the reader a loser because that's why they're reading the book), and so on. There is also good content if you know where to look for it. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
If you one day come to the realization that you have insane issues about wanting to be appreciated I'm fine with helping you out. Until that day you will live on in the bubble you created to make yourself feel better. @chenchen / visual77: Your comments about squattin, despite how much I think he makes wrong / blatant attentionwhoring statements are kinda like "lolol look the guy we don't like got called out for something stupid, let's jump on the train lololol" and are not exactly a great example of someone who understands (or tries to understand) how people work. That part is a pretty fundamental thing when it comes to pickup as a form of art more than the mere try to get laid at weekends. On December 22 2011 07:48 chenchen wrote: Developing social skills is important. It's good to be able to communicate with others pleasantly and comfortably. Everyone wants to be well liked and approachable. There's probably something wrong with you if you want people to hate you. I do think that it's very very silly to read books and take lesson on getting better "social skills". Like seriously? How juvenile is that? Reading books on how to "talk to people" and "make friends" . . . . I can't take that very seriously. While I don't have any experience with such things, nor do I plan on pursuing any, I get the impression that these books only teach superficial things and appeal to insecure people who are not comfortable with who they are. Like you said, the whole PUA thing was designed to make money off of nerds who are insecure and want girls. Will reading a book and approaching twenty girls at some club with "techniques" and shit get them anywhere? No. It won't. They'll STILL be vastly insecure and, in fact, so insecure, that they'll post their "results" and flaunt them so other nerds can give them much craved attention and approval. And as for girls with self-respect . . . if they really do respect themselves, they don't need other people's approval or interactions with other people to fortify their confidence. They're probably satisfied with aspects of their own life, like their work or interests that they don't need random guys hitting on them in dimly lit places to make themselves feel good. Your hate on books is kinda weird. There is nothing wrong at all with reading up on how certain things work. What is however wrong is giving out advice without having a clue how certain dynamics interact with each other. Books = theory. Going out and doing stuff = practice. Neither without the other will lead to quick success. Whether you get your basic theory from a book, a video or a personal coaching doesn't matter that much. If you don't try and see how that theory works with actual people you won't learn anything either. "Pickup" was more designed by Nerds who tried to figure the whole thing out. I'd say the very foundation of pickup rests on the idea that the strong beat the weak and the smart beat the strong, mostly because violence is no longer the main way of getting them gurlz in todays life. I actually consider the core of a lot of pickup systems having a pseudo-scientifc approach. -"Hey dude, I've got this idea. I saw that big baller guy with the 20 girls in action, and when he talks to a girl he always starts touching her right off the bat. Think that might help with his success?" -"I dno bro, let's try it the next time we talk to them bitches." Now starts a series of really awkward encounters where two socially pretty unskilled people will figure out how and when they have to touch girls to get them more comfortable than without touching them. They post those results in a forum with people who have the same interest and give it the name KINO. Bam. A basic foundation of pickup is born, originating from two curious nerds who wanted to get laid. @"techniques" and shit: Most pickup "techniques" (keep in mind, from my experience american PUAs are WAY more technical than europeans for various reasons) are more like training wheels. I remember having a really awkward dude in our local lair who greated new cats joining the meetings with a huge smile showing off teeth, leaning right in her face and saying "HI I'M KEVIN HOW ARE YOU?" while grabbing her hand and shaking it. -Is the whole thing incredibly awkward? Yes. -Is it socially incompetent? Yes. -Will there be a single girl he meets for the first time that's not creeped out by it? Probably not. HOWEVER if you consider that the same guy couldn't look any girl in the eyes two weeks before and used to stutter out a "hi" if a girl is new somewhere it's a huge fucking step. It's a huge first step among many to be made to make him a social being. Most "techniques" (similar to canned openers) are solid for most beginners because it gives them something to start. Someone who never walked up to a girl in his life needs small steps where you can lead him to the conclusion "Hey, that wasn't bad after all. Wow. Cool. They don't throw me up in the air and devour me alive." The material offered by most PUA forums/coaches/sites is huge enough to have everything for most states of developement. Like if I take myself for an example I don't care about getting same night lays or getting quick affairs going anymore. I cared about that stuff 3 years ago. Now I'm interested in getting my girlfriend to have threesomes with girls we pick up together with her feeling comfortable about it and all that while not getting the feelings of the second girl hurt. I'm interested in making a girl I barely know loosen up enough so that she can have one of the best experiences about sex she ever had in her life with me. I'm interested in making girls orgasm without even touching them. The PUA community still offers me a place to talk about these things and exchange experiences without it being totally awkward. Ask any of the above to your random best friend and he'll most likely give you a "Dude, that's weird. I'm not gonna talk with you about sex, bro." answer. For 99% of the people I know who "started doing pickup" the first reasoning behind it was "I wanna get laid" or "I wanna find a girlfriend". For me, after I realized that getting laid isn't that hard if you know what you're doing (took me about 1- 1 1/2 years I'd say) I got curious about what else there is to explore between men and women. And believe me, that field is huge. On December 22 2011 08:36 chenchen wrote: Why would I even go into a thread about picking up girls at bars and clubs if squattincasanova weren't posting? It'd just be boring mindless exchange of advice between the less experienced and the more experienced on how to pressure some poor vulnerable girl into putting out. Shit, I don't feel the need to partake in that. Not like I actually post in this thread. I mean I honestly and legitimately enjoy reading your posts. If your perspective is that Pickup is "all about pressuring some poor vulnerable girl into putting out", sir, we have to talk. I'm applying material I originally learned about in Pickup to solving marriage problems, solving problems at workplaces, solving problems with mobbing or helping out people who aren't as authorative as they'd like to be in their jobs. Imo you can divide the PUA community into two main camps: a) It's about getting to fuck a girl in the end. b) It's about becoming a more social human being and some day being happily in a relationship. If it's about group a), yes, you're right. However there's loads of people who are more inclined to choose b) all day evrrrry day. Don't make the community look even worse than it already is. =D | ||
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xiaofan
United States513 Posts
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squattincassanova
United States650 Posts
On December 22 2011 11:52 r.Evo wrote: @squattin: I call you out on a factional mistake on your part. Instead of admitting it you decide to first explain the situation in a way that is quite contrary to the original scenario you described, afterwards you're like "trollololol you're just a nerd anyway". That does not change the fact that your original statement about "Peacocking is meant so that sets hook less" is complete and utter bullshit. For someone who claims to be coached by some of the finest out there and claims to strive for being the best at something you sure don't care a lot about spewing out crap. There are different ways to peacock. Peacocking with a cool interesting necklace or conversational starter may give the girls an opportunity to approach you. However this type of benefit is a short term mindset. It will not provide significant long term growths. Its basically a crutch at early stages when you have weak verbal abilities. At a certain competency level, it doesn't matter if the girl is approaching you or not. You will be the ones approaching. You think I care what the girl thinks before I approach? Nope. I approach because I find her attractive, and that's the only reason I need. While certain items may increase hooked percentages, the Vietnamese farmer hat was obviously not intended to improve sets by any means. I'm simply explaining the circumstances we were in. The peacocking we were doing were more similar to Hypnotica's dildo on the forehead or dress outfit but I think that would be a little too extreme and the hat was the only thing we had. | ||
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xiaofan
United States513 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On December 22 2011 12:47 xiaofan wrote: Anyone every try peacocking with a peacock? I think there's potential there... Since I think that I just gave up dealing with squatbro since he just stated exactly what I said in my first internet smackdown post & still won't admit that his definition was plain wrong (if the goal is not to attract females it's not peacocking)... I peacocked by accident with a babykitten at a private party once. That shit was real. Sit at random couch, have babykitten on arm, enjoy getting insta-loved by every girl in the room. No success story to see there though cuz babykitten > sex, easy. =D | ||
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Catch
United States616 Posts
To be honest, I don't even know if most PUAs know what type of girl they want. Sure, going to a night club is going to get you a ton of variety, but it is also going to get you a ton of superficiality. I don't know, the way I look at it is to first even decide what you want to do, you have to decide what you like and then go after your type of girl there. For example, I'm really into athletic girls because lifting is probably my biggest hobby. One of the places I could go would be a gym or a sporting event. I always immediately connect with chicks who are really into nutrition or fitness.That would be one of my targets, but I don't think most guys do this. I think it's why some men are so successful in inner game is because they realize this. Say you liked athletic girls as well, you'd probably be a little bit more out of touch with say some chick really into politics or an avid TV watcher. Can you still have success with em? Sure, but it won't be easier, and it might not even be as fun. | ||
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squattincassanova
United States650 Posts
*bad dancer *too much pull, not enough push *bad time management *need better teasing My biggest sticking point now is probably what a lot of intermediate guys have. And that is they lose their drive. He basically told me that success came too easily that I don't work as hard as the other guys who are still not getting any dates/lays. And since I am getting lays, I am not putting in the hours of homework, drills, and analysis that the other guys are putting in. And this is true. Like I will go out twice a week, but my field reports are too short and I don't spend the rest of my week developing solid skill sets, whether hobby, or pickup related. Basically he says when I go out, I kind of just wing it and my current level of success is sufficient to get lays but I'm basically at a plateau. I am basically doing what a natural is doing... go in, be funny, banter, escalate. I am not doing solid lock-ins, qualifications, vulnerabilities, and compliance tests. The other question I asked him was that ultimately I want to find a serious gf or someone to get married and that because my options are more its harder for me to commit. He basically told me that fundamentally as your options increase, it becomes harder to select one option. Furthermore, you will be less satisfied with that option. For example, if you have two types of food dishes to chose from, one vegetable, one meat. Its not hard to choose only one. But if you have 100 dishes to choose from but you can only pick one dish for the rest of your life, its going to be much harder, and you probably get buyers remorse. And thats the biggest problem. I can't connect deeply with any particular girl because I know my skills are getting better and better and I will eventually just find some other girl hotter, better personality, and more compatibility with. I think thats the hardest problem. Its finding out when to settle or commit. http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2010/07/05/2944917.htm http://www.economist.com/node/17723028 | ||
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tehboredone
15 Posts
On December 22 2011 20:44 squattincassanova wrote: I was hanging out with my Guru friend after Vegas and I mentioned about my sticking points. On top of the following: *bad dancer *too much pull, not enough push *bad time management *need better teasing My biggest sticking point now is probably what a lot of intermediate guys have. And that is they lose their drive. He basically told me that success came too easily that I don't work as hard as the other guys who are still not getting any dates/lays. And since I am getting lays, I am not putting in the hours of homework, drills, and analysis that the other guys are putting in. And this is true. Like I will go out twice a week, but my field reports are too short and I don't spend the rest of my week developing solid skill sets, whether hobby, or pickup related. Basically he says when I go out, I kind of just wing it and my current level of success is sufficient to get lays but I'm basically at a plateau. I am basically doing what a natural is doing... go in, be funny, banter, escalate. I am not doing solid lock-ins, qualifications, vulnerabilities, and compliance tests. The other question I asked him was that ultimately I want to find a serious gf or someone to get married and that because my options are more its harder for me to commit. He basically told me that fundamentally as your options increase, it becomes harder to select one option. Furthermore, you will be less satisfied with that option. For example, if you have two types of food dishes to chose from, one vegetable, one meat. Its not hard to choose only one. But if you have 100 dishes to choose from but you can only pick one dish for the rest of your life, its going to be much harder, and you probably get buyers remorse. And thats the biggest problem. I can't connect deeply with any particular girl because I know my skills are getting better and better and I will eventually just find some other girl hotter, better personality, and more compatibility with. I think thats the hardest problem. Its finding out when to settle or commit. http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2010/07/05/2944917.htm http://www.economist.com/node/17723028 Hey at least you're in a position where you can afford to choose in the first place. Not a lot of guys can say that, as a lot of them try to go for any girl that gives them any passing attention. No wonder you're content with where you're at right now. At this point I'm wondering if there's any woman who can measure up to your standards lol. I know you get a lot of haters in this thread dude, but in the end you're the one posting the vids, you're the one making progress while everyone bashes. Nice work and keep on doing what you're doing! | ||
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[]Phase[]
Belgium927 Posts
Being social is inherent to humans. Actually being social is acting normal. You are all focussing so much on this stuff I don't really know if it's still natural, it looks like you are a bunch of actors trying to act out perfect meeting scenes from a movie or something... For guys who don't go out a lot and think they cant get girls : the less you go out, the lower your chances you will meet someone. For guys who think a lot about 'what they are going to do when they get there' : Dont. it makes your behaviour less natural. I am all for making well thought out decisions, but sometimes you should just let it go and not think about it. Girls want normal guys. Being social is inherent to the human race, so just don't pay too much attention to your behaviour. If there is anything you shouldn't make an entire science out of, it is the act of meeting people and getting to know them. How well do they really know you if your behaviour is just based on a set of rules... | ||
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Kukaracha
France1954 Posts
On December 22 2011 07:48 chenchen wrote: Developing social skills is important. It's good to be able to communicate with others pleasantly and comfortably. Everyone wants to be well liked and approachable. There's probably something wrong with you if you want people to hate you. I do think that it's very very silly to read books and take lesson on getting better "social skills". Like seriously? How juvenile is that? Reading books on how to "talk to people" and "make friends" . . . . I can't take that very seriously. While I don't have any experience with such things, nor do I plan on pursuing any, I get the impression that these books only teach superficial things and appeal to insecure people who are not comfortable with who they are. Like you said, the whole PUA thing was designed to make money off of nerds who are insecure and want girls. Will reading a book and approaching twenty girls at some club with "techniques" and shit get them anywhere? No. It won't. They'll STILL be vastly insecure and, in fact, so insecure, that they'll post their "results" and flaunt them so other nerds can give them much craved attention and approval. I can second part of this. I don't think that reading books about it is wrong, but I think that it's the symptom of individualism. People not knowing how to interact with each other. It's as if people needed books to learn how to walk: isn't anyone supposed to know how to walk...? Touching people to become more intimate, the need to feel loved, these things are simple tools we use on a daily basis. I'm not saying that learning those things is bad; I'm saying that it's bad you have to learn them in the first place. However, I disagree with the whole insecurity thing. Everyone is insecure to some extent. The OP is insecure when he posts a wall of text with pictures when people question his coolness with one single sentence, his opponents are insecure when they feel the need to defend themselves with witty remarks, page after page, pretending to be superior beings laughing at the demise of the poor, uncool PUA community."You're insecure", "no YOU are insecure sir", "no YOU", etc... Everyone has holes in their armour. And the bigger the armor, the more insecure you truly are. The key is to not really care. Because it's not that big of a deal. The human being is not perfect nor will it ever be. We make up memories to fill the holes. We see everything through the scope of our own opinions, twisting the world to something that fits our mood. We crave attention and love. We do despicable things when no one is looking. But that's just the awesome human experience! | ||
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tehboredone
15 Posts
On December 22 2011 21:08 []Phase[] wrote: Isn't this all abit too overthought? Being social is inherent to humans. Actually being social is acting normal. You are all focussing so much on this stuff I don't really know if it's still natural, it looks like you are a bunch of actors trying to act out perfect meeting scenes from a movie or something... For guys who don't go out a lot and think they cant get girls : the less you go out, the lower your chances you will meet someone. For guys who think a lot about 'what they are going to do when they get there' : Dont. it makes your behaviour less natural. I am all for making well thought out decisions, but sometimes you should just let it go and not think about it. Girls want normal guys. Being social is inherent to the human race, so just don't pay too much attention to your behaviour. If there is anything you shouldn't make an entire science out of, it is the act of meeting people and getting to know them. How well do they really know you if your behaviour is just based on a set of rules... You'd think that right? But I think you underestimate how clueless some people are at socializing. Haven't you ever met "that" awkward guy somewhere? Like the way he talks is creepy or annoying and no one wants to be his friend? Sadly, there are people like that who are COMPLETELY clueless on what to do. With pick-up, at least all those things about socializing, not just with girls but with people in general, are put in a format that's clear and in a format that they can understand. A lot of people like to say to go out and "be confident" or just "be yourself". For a lot of people, vague sayings and inspirational one-liners aren't enough. | ||
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