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Allins are getting quite popular, so I decided to share a little bitbybitpride strat I like to do when I'm sick of playing Protoss.
This build is similar to the 3 raxallin 4:00 [ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=223517 ], the only difference is I emphasize more into scvs than marines
edit: Before you attack my credibility and calling me a pewbie bronze noob. I'm currently rank 1 in Master NA and my MMR is equivalent to mid-high grandmaster.
edit2: I'm grandmaster finally.
Intro:
+ Show Spoiler +Getting sick of protoss cheese?? VRS? Proxy gate? DTs? 4 gate? This build is designed to stop all protoss cheeses before it even happens
Build Order:
+ Show Spoiler +10 supply
12 rax
13 rax * should be around a 3-5 sec delay on your scv production*
15 orbital
16 supply
If everything is done correctly, your 2nd and 3rd marine should pop roughly around the same time
Layout:
+ Show Spoiler +-Avoid getting surrounded by probes
-Grab the least surface area as you can *remember* scvs are your meat shield
-Avoid being in location where they can mineral walk through and bape your marines
Keypoints:
+ Show Spoiler +The whole idea is to send all your scvs as soon as you hit 3 marines while rallying more marines to the enemy base. While microing with your scvs/marines, build a bunker behind the mineral line.
Be proactive toward scout denying
Be proactive about building the bunker behind the mineral line
If your opponent scouts you last, that is always a surplus * so remember to micro your marine to obliterate the little annoying probe before it gets to far into your base*
Its alway nice to hide your 2nd barrack so it looks like a 1 rax expo
As soon as your 2nd rax is being built that is when you should scout
If your opponent opens with 1 zealot 1 sentries, its pretty much over because DPS on sentries is horrid.
If your opponent opens with stalker and follow by another stalker, pull a few scvs to target that one stalker to try to get a surround while your baby marines finish the deal.
If you scout a forge opening, follow 2rax expo, you will get slaughtered if you allin
Protoss opener:
+ Show Spoiler +
1 gate forge: Neglect any thoughts of allins and follow it up by 2rax expo
2 gate pressure: Attack ASAP, once that 2nd stalker comes out, its practically over unless they get surrounded by scvs or bunker is completed. *probably by far the hardest to pull off*
1 gate proxy: destroy the plyon, follow by allin
2 gate proxy: destroy the plyon, follow by allin
Replays:
High master - High grandmaster
+ Show Spoiler +
-Pride
ps: lets hear some destructive criticism, remember to be impartial even if you're protoss =]
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This "guide" is sooooooooooooo empty of content ~_~
At least it has replays though. It's a step in the right direction....
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so this is baisicly a 2 rax.....why dont you just say so ??
I'd say the only good thing here is there are replays
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oh look a cheese by pride...
looks kinda similar to 2 rax all in? Don't see why it needs a guide... at least add more content? 
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This is just a 2rax bunker rush.... only vP instead of vZ.
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How does this do vs a standard protoss build if he gets a zealot after core and instantly a stalker?
How does it do vs a protoss opening if he instead gets a gate for more stalkers when he scouts your 2 rax?
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On May 26 2011 03:23 GrassEater wrote:
How does this do vs a standard protoss build if he gets a zealot after core and instantly a stalker?
How does it do vs a protoss opening if he instead gets a gate for more stalkers when he scouts your 2 rax?
zealot, stalker is typical
straight stalker is where it gets tricky, pull a few scvs to target the stalker to try to get a surround, making the stalker move further back from the battle.
zealot, sentry will get slaughtered. Sentry dps is horrid.
pure zealot is slaughtered because with good surface area, you will win the fight
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It's almost a freewin close positions ^_^
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Lol, I love how you spoiler 3 lines of text ^^
But interesting strat, we don't often have GM level replays so it's always nice 
GJ on cheesing CombatEX !
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On May 26 2011 03:36 Geiko wrote:Lol, I love how you spoiler 3 lines of text ^^ But interesting strat, we don't often have GM level replays so it's always nice GJ on cheesing CombatEX !
spoiler tags make it look legit :"D, I edit a lot more guys :D
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Counter as Protoss:
Standard 9 pylon 12 gate 14 gas, if you 9 scout you will see the 2nd rax going down at his 13... Change your build order to this:
15 gate
15 core
16 pylon
bank minerals/gas
when core and 2nd gate finish at the same time, cb out 2 stalkers and continue probe production, rally stalkers to opponents base... If stalkers get there before or right after they push out, you can micro them to death and take the win right there
If you scout the Terran last, it might be too late but adjust accordingly; you want stalkers
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On May 26 2011 03:39 tehemperorer wrote:
Counter as Protoss:
Standard 9 pylon 12 gate 14 gas, if you 9 scout you will see the 2nd rax going down at his 13... Change your build order to this:
15 gate
15 core
16 pylon
bank minerals/gas
when core and 2nd gate finish at the same time, cb out 2 stalkers and continue probe production, rally stalkers to opponents base... If stalkers get there before or right after they push out, you can micro them to death and take the win right there
If you scout the Terran last, it might be too late but adjust accordingly; you want stalkers
that why i emphasize you should hide your 2nd rax. With the timing the allin should hit the base before the 2nd stalker comes out.
There is about a 10-12 sec open window from here to kill you before you get your 2nd and 3rd stalker. Unless you got some gosu micro, its also difficult on both sides.
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On May 26 2011 03:43 PrideTV wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 03:39 tehemperorer wrote:
Counter as Protoss:
Standard 9 pylon 12 gate 14 gas, if you 9 scout you will see the 2nd rax going down at his 13... Change your build order to this:
15 gate
15 core
16 pylon
bank minerals/gas
when core and 2nd gate finish at the same time, cb out 2 stalkers and continue probe production, rally stalkers to opponents base... If stalkers get there before or right after they push out, you can micro them to death and take the win right there
If you scout the Terran last, it might be too late but adjust accordingly; you want stalkers that why i emphasize you should hide your 2nd rax. With the timing the allin should hit the base before the 2nd stalker comes out. There is about a 10-12 sec open window from here to kill you before you get your 2nd and 3rd stalker. Unless you got some gosu micro, its also difficult on both sides.
Yeah, hiding the rax would cause problems, but as for the stalkers, both come out at the same time at 4:02... It's a 2gate fast stalker build
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On May 26 2011 03:52 tehemperorer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 03:43 PrideTV wrote:On May 26 2011 03:39 tehemperorer wrote:
Counter as Protoss:
Standard 9 pylon 12 gate 14 gas, if you 9 scout you will see the 2nd rax going down at his 13... Change your build order to this:
15 gate
15 core
16 pylon
bank minerals/gas
when core and 2nd gate finish at the same time, cb out 2 stalkers and continue probe production, rally stalkers to opponents base... If stalkers get there before or right after they push out, you can micro them to death and take the win right there
If you scout the Terran last, it might be too late but adjust accordingly; you want stalkers that why i emphasize you should hide your 2nd rax. With the timing the allin should hit the base before the 2nd stalker comes out. There is about a 10-12 sec open window from here to kill you before you get your 2nd and 3rd stalker. Unless you got some gosu micro, its also difficult on both sides. Yeah, hiding the rax would cause problems, but as for the stalkers, both come out at the same time at 4:02... It's a 2gate fast stalker build
the push itself hits around the 4 min mark.
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Getting sick of protoss cheese?? VRS? Proxy gate? DTs? 4 gate? This build is designed to stop all protoss cheeses before it even happens
So your counter to cheese is cheese harder yourself. Eye for an eye makes the world go blind.
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I'm so happy none of those replays are against me, Pride. ^_^
SCV all-ins like this can be pretty annoying if you're trying to nexus first!
On May 26 2011 03:39 tehemperorer wrote:
Counter as Protoss:
Standard 9 pylon 12 gate 14 gas, if you 9 scout you will see the 2nd rax going down at his 13... Change your build order to this:
15 gate
15 core
16 pylon
bank minerals/gas
when core and 2nd gate finish at the same time, cb out 2 stalkers and continue probe production, rally stalkers to opponents base... If stalkers get there before or right after they push out, you can micro them to death and take the win right there
If you scout the Terran last, it might be too late but adjust accordingly; you want stalkers
On four-player maps with close positions (read: ladder), don't gateway scout unless your build is safe against this sort of cheese. It's best to pylon scout if your build is risky, that way you can make adjustments to defend any kind of attack such as this.
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On May 26 2011 04:21 State wrote:I'm so happy none of those replays are against me, Pride. ^_^ SCV all-ins like this can be pretty annoying if you're trying to nexus first! Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 03:39 tehemperorer wrote:
Counter as Protoss:
Standard 9 pylon 12 gate 14 gas, if you 9 scout you will see the 2nd rax going down at his 13... Change your build order to this:
15 gate
15 core
16 pylon
bank minerals/gas
when core and 2nd gate finish at the same time, cb out 2 stalkers and continue probe production, rally stalkers to opponents base... If stalkers get there before or right after they push out, you can micro them to death and take the win right there
If you scout the Terran last, it might be too late but adjust accordingly; you want stalkers On four-player maps with close positions (read: ladder), don't gateway scout unless your build is safe against this sort of cheese. It's best to pylon scout if your build is risky, that way you can make adjustments to defend any kind of attack such as this.
im trying to find your replay state . i have so many tvp i don't which one is 3 marine bunker rush
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On May 26 2011 04:30 PrideTV wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 04:21 State wrote:I'm so happy none of those replays are against me, Pride. ^_^ SCV all-ins like this can be pretty annoying if you're trying to nexus first! On May 26 2011 03:39 tehemperorer wrote:
Counter as Protoss:
Standard 9 pylon 12 gate 14 gas, if you 9 scout you will see the 2nd rax going down at his 13... Change your build order to this:
15 gate
15 core
16 pylon
bank minerals/gas
when core and 2nd gate finish at the same time, cb out 2 stalkers and continue probe production, rally stalkers to opponents base... If stalkers get there before or right after they push out, you can micro them to death and take the win right there
If you scout the Terran last, it might be too late but adjust accordingly; you want stalkers On four-player maps with close positions (read: ladder), don't gateway scout unless your build is safe against this sort of cheese. It's best to pylon scout if your build is risky, that way you can make adjustments to defend any kind of attack such as this. im trying to find your replay state . i have so many tvp i don't which one is 3 marine bunker rush
NO!! Don't find the replay! I'll never love you again.
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sooo....a "guide" for 2 rax -> pull scvs allin? lol. I don't think a guide is necessary for something like that -_-
But if you're gonna do this, why don't you just go 11/11 rax or 11/12. You'll have prob 1-3 scvs less than normal, but you'll have more marines sooner.
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On May 26 2011 04:41 avilo wrote:
sooo....a "guide" for 2 rax -> pull scvs allin? lol. I don't think a guide is necessary for something like that -_-
But if you're gonna do this, why don't you just go 11/11 rax or 11/12. You'll have prob 1-3 scvs less than normal, but you'll have more marines sooner.
but with that build.. its more predictable
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That't a lot of replays... you must get tired of playing Protoss a lot xD
Could you add a section in your Protoss opener if they open standard? Like Gate-Cyber with zealot and chrono boosted stalker? I'd rather not go through your reps to find one
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Canada13389 Posts
I just wonder why people want to make so many marine scv all ins >.<
I guess I gotta prepare for this on the ladder, looks like it will take some practice to learn to hold. The worst part is it looks like Selects 2 rax expo >.<
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Sounds interesting but it seems there are too many chances at this strategy failing. Not to plug but I think the recent post made regarding the "3 rax, cheesing your way to GM" build will have more chances at success.
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It's funny how you 'say' you use this build because you don't want to play against protoss cheese. So you cheese. Quite the guy
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On May 26 2011 05:03 EvilZergling wrote:
Sounds interesting but it seems there are too many chances at this strategy failing. Not to plug but I think the recent post made regarding the "3 rax, cheesing your way to GM" build will have more chances at success.
Exept that pride actually did cheese his way to GM LOL
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Yo Pride, ever been 16 Nexus'ed by the Protoss who also 2 probe harasses? I know when I do 2 probe harass the first marine is taken down to about 20 or 25 hp. I know if I bring a 3rd probe I can kill the marine unless you pull scvs, but I have a 16 nexus routine where I skip WG and stalker and go straight for an Immortal cause it's pretty strong at the 6-7 minute mark. Thoughts?
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Tehemperor's build is probably the best response you could do. Whenever you see any marine/scv pull as protoss what you want to do is get some stalkers and snipe the marines before they get to your base. go check out geiko vs ZyJimmeh in geiko's thread to see it in action.
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On May 26 2011 05:18 tehemperorer wrote:
Yo Pride, ever been 16 Nexus'ed by the Protoss who also 2 probe harasses? I know when I do 2 probe harass the first marine is taken down to about 20 or 25 hp. I know if I bring a 3rd probe I can kill the marine unless you pull scvs, but I have a 16 nexus routine where I skip WG and stalker and go straight for an Immortal cause it's pretty strong at the 6-7 minute mark. Thoughts?
i don't think 2 probe harass will work.i think it will put you behind if you harass with probes to kill marine. the success rate is actually higher if they 16 nexus
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Combatex replay chat is great
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LOL the combatex game ahahahah
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Zomg, this game has soooo many openers you have to know exactly how to stop. Damn you Pride. Damn you.
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Pathetic, getting tired of this un-skilled nonsense strategies in a skill rewarding strategy game. For any terran reading this, please go to some Synystyr-like strategy threads to get a really fun and rewarding builds.
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On May 26 2011 06:31 Belha wrote:
Pathetic, getting tired of this un-skilled nonsense strategies in a skill rewarding strategy game. For any terran reading this, please go to some Synystyr-like strategy threads to get a really fun and rewarding builds.
why you spamming? This strat is legit
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IM gonna try this, I want to experience the BIT BY BITTTTTT effect.
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On May 26 2011 06:31 Belha wrote:
Pathetic, getting tired of this un-skilled nonsense strategies in a skill rewarding strategy game. For any terran reading this, please go to some Synystyr-like strategy threads to get a really fun and rewarding builds.
It's totally a legit build; if P wants to say 16 nexus every game, there's gotta be a way for T to punish that. There has to be several options even for the early game to put pressure or macro up otherwise the game would be stale in other ways.
Pride, your comment was kinda unclear to me, you mean 16 nexus with 2 probe harass would be less effective than just 16 nexusing?
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this is the shit brah! so good! imma use it more in bronze, let's get to master!
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On May 26 2011 07:01 tehemperorer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 06:31 Belha wrote:
Pathetic, getting tired of this un-skilled nonsense strategies in a skill rewarding strategy game. For any terran reading this, please go to some Synystyr-like strategy threads to get a really fun and rewarding builds. It's totally a legit build; if P wants to say 16 nexus every game, there's gotta be a way for T to punish that. There has to be several options even for the early game to put pressure or macro up otherwise the game would be stale in other ways. Pride, your comment was kinda unclear to me, you mean 16 nexus with 2 probe harass would be less effective than just 16 nexusing?
pulling 2 probes just might hurt u more than you think i believe.
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I don't think this build is very optimal for a marine scv all in. It has a comparably low marine count to other marine scv all ins and does not really hit a lot earlier. Scvs are really there to buffer, not to do dmg so pulling an obscene amount (ie so you can't reinforce marines) is not particularly amazing for a marine scv attack.
You did this build once to me and i think i lost like 6 probes and a zealot against all your workers pulled. It didn't feel as threatening as a 1 rax no gas opener then 2 addition rax proxied (which is really what that "3 rax to grand masters thread should be) because at least that disguises the build as a 1 rax no gas fe. I'm much more scared of that with like half of someones workers to buffer and still the other half at home + the mule to allow for constant reinforcement marines.
heres the replay is anyone wants to know how to defend it
![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-210860.jpg)
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On May 26 2011 07:03 PrideTV wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 07:01 tehemperorer wrote:On May 26 2011 06:31 Belha wrote:
Pathetic, getting tired of this un-skilled nonsense strategies in a skill rewarding strategy game. For any terran reading this, please go to some Synystyr-like strategy threads to get a really fun and rewarding builds. It's totally a legit build; if P wants to say 16 nexus every game, there's gotta be a way for T to punish that. There has to be several options even for the early game to put pressure or macro up otherwise the game would be stale in other ways. Pride, your comment was kinda unclear to me, you mean 16 nexus with 2 probe harass would be less effective than just 16 nexusing? pulling 2 probes just might hurt u more than you think i believe.
Just curious have you ever evaluated or played against 2 probe harass? It forces Terran, that is already spending scvs to build, to pull at least 3 scvs to deal with the probes.
It goes like this from start of game: mine, then after first trip back pull 1 far patch probe to scout. On XNC he will get to your base before you lay down a 10 depot. Send 2nd probe after you place a 9 pylon, and already you are causing significant damage to Terran mining time not to mention the scvs who have been pulled already are wounded. The second probe shows up while you cb at 11-12 and 13-14, then 16 nexus 16 gate 17 pylon 18 gas. When the marine comes out u can do more than half his health in damage with 2 probes, if you send a 3rd you can kill the marine easily unless T pulls more scvs. Not only am I in your base even after marine is out, but if the marine takes just 2 probe shots (he is guaranteed to take it) he is now a 2 shot ATK from a Zeal...
uh maybe it would be better if I played against you, would you be up for that? Just curious since at the end of the day this is all theorycraft (I do 2 probe harass/16 nexus but haven't faced this particular 2rax)
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Can we have a rule to ban naming a guide after oneself when it has clearly no innovation whatsoever? And i'm sorry to see this work on GM level. And this is offtop, sorry.
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On May 26 2011 07:15 tehemperorer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 07:03 PrideTV wrote:On May 26 2011 07:01 tehemperorer wrote:On May 26 2011 06:31 Belha wrote:
Pathetic, getting tired of this un-skilled nonsense strategies in a skill rewarding strategy game. For any terran reading this, please go to some Synystyr-like strategy threads to get a really fun and rewarding builds. It's totally a legit build; if P wants to say 16 nexus every game, there's gotta be a way for T to punish that. There has to be several options even for the early game to put pressure or macro up otherwise the game would be stale in other ways. Pride, your comment was kinda unclear to me, you mean 16 nexus with 2 probe harass would be less effective than just 16 nexusing? pulling 2 probes just might hurt u more than you think i believe. Just curious have you ever evaluated or played against 2 probe harass? It forces Terran, that is already spending scvs to build, to pull at least 3 scvs to deal with the probes. It goes like this from start of game: mine, then after first trip back pull 1 far patch probe to scout. On XNC he will get to your base before you lay down a 10 depot. Send 2nd probe after you place a 9 pylon, and already you are causing significant damage to Terran mining time not to mention the scvs who have been pulled already are wounded. The second probe shows up while you cb at 11-12 and 13-14, then 16 nexus 16 gate 17 pylon 18 gas. When the marine comes out u can do more than half his health in damage with 2 probes, if you send a 3rd you can kill the marine easily unless T pulls more scvs. Not only am I in your base even after marine is out, but if the marine takes just 2 probe shots (he is guaranteed to take it) he is now a 2 shot ATK from a Zeal... uh maybe it would be better if I played against you, would you be up for that? Just curious since at the end of the day this is all theorycraft (I do 2 probe harass/16 nexus but haven't faced this particular 2rax)
ya sounds good
scdpride.599 add me
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On May 26 2011 07:17 Cheerio wrote:
Can we have a rule to ban naming a guide after oneself when it has clearly no innovation whatsoever? And i'm sorry to see this work on GM level. And this is offtop, sorry.
irrelevant..
If have nothing constructive to say, don't say it please. thanks!
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On May 26 2011 07:21 PrideTV wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 07:15 tehemperorer wrote:On May 26 2011 07:03 PrideTV wrote:On May 26 2011 07:01 tehemperorer wrote:On May 26 2011 06:31 Belha wrote:
Pathetic, getting tired of this un-skilled nonsense strategies in a skill rewarding strategy game. For any terran reading this, please go to some Synystyr-like strategy threads to get a really fun and rewarding builds. It's totally a legit build; if P wants to say 16 nexus every game, there's gotta be a way for T to punish that. There has to be several options even for the early game to put pressure or macro up otherwise the game would be stale in other ways. Pride, your comment was kinda unclear to me, you mean 16 nexus with 2 probe harass would be less effective than just 16 nexusing? pulling 2 probes just might hurt u more than you think i believe. Just curious have you ever evaluated or played against 2 probe harass? It forces Terran, that is already spending scvs to build, to pull at least 3 scvs to deal with the probes. It goes like this from start of game: mine, then after first trip back pull 1 far patch probe to scout. On XNC he will get to your base before you lay down a 10 depot. Send 2nd probe after you place a 9 pylon, and already you are causing significant damage to Terran mining time not to mention the scvs who have been pulled already are wounded. The second probe shows up while you cb at 11-12 and 13-14, then 16 nexus 16 gate 17 pylon 18 gas. When the marine comes out u can do more than half his health in damage with 2 probes, if you send a 3rd you can kill the marine easily unless T pulls more scvs. Not only am I in your base even after marine is out, but if the marine takes just 2 probe shots (he is guaranteed to take it) he is now a 2 shot ATK from a Zeal... uh maybe it would be better if I played against you, would you be up for that? Just curious since at the end of the day this is all theorycraft (I do 2 probe harass/16 nexus but haven't faced this particular 2rax) ya sounds good scdpride.599 add me
Cool man thanks I will hit you up later
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[The whole idea is to send all your scvs] <3
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I watched four of the replays.
In two of these games, this pull of this rush because your opponent scouts you last (Optikzero, ONEwbc) and in the other (Perfect) you pull it off because your opponent doesn't scout you, and you happen to be close positions on Shattered Temple. There is another cheese build that would have killed these guys just as easily: the 6 pool. I think Geiko's build is far superior for this reason, it cannot be scouted due to the low ground wall off.
The final game I watched with combatex is probably the best of bunch. At the Grandmasters level, he goes for a cannon rush, and you go for a 3 rax. Seriously? But it gets better, as the match begins you both talk about wanting to stream snipe destiny, and how upset you are that you didn't get matched up with him and instead got matched up with each other. You also tell of your recent stream sniping victims and how bad you "own them." My dream of becoming a Grandmaster literally just went down in flames, I have no desire to play games like this all of the time. It would be a complete waste my time. I'd rather play in the lower leagues and play real games than deal with these cheesy builds over and over. I can fully understand now why Idra rages when he plays people like this on the ladder.
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On May 26 2011 08:05 BronzeKnee wrote:
I watched four of the replays.
In two of these games, you pull of this rush because your opponent scouts you last (Optikzero, ONEwbc) and in the other (Perfect) you pull it off because your opponent doesn't scout you, and you happen to be close positions on Shattered Temple. There is another cheese build that would killed these guys just as easily: the 6 pool. I think Geiko's build is far superior for this reason, it cannot be scouted due to the low ground wall off.
The final game I watched with combatex is probably the best of bunch. At the Grandmasters level, he goes for a cannon rush, and you go for a 3 rax. Seriously? But it gets better, as the match begins you both talk about wanting to stream snipe destiny, and how upset you are that you didn't get matched up with him and instead got matched up with each other. You also tell of your recent stream sniping victims and how bad you "own them." My dream of becoming a Grandmaster literally just went down in flames, I have no desire to play games like this all of the time. It would be a complete waste my time. I'd rather play in the lower leagues and play real games than deal with these cheesy builds over and over. I can fully understand now why Idra rages when he plays people like this on the ladder.
what is your definition of a real game? One where you both sit for 15 mins, macro up then attack?
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On May 26 2011 08:13 PrideTV wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 08:05 BronzeKnee wrote:
I watched four of the replays.
In two of these games, you pull of this rush because your opponent scouts you last (Optikzero, ONEwbc) and in the other (Perfect) you pull it off because your opponent doesn't scout you, and you happen to be close positions on Shattered Temple. There is another cheese build that would killed these guys just as easily: the 6 pool. I think Geiko's build is far superior for this reason, it cannot be scouted due to the low ground wall off.
The final game I watched with combatex is probably the best of bunch. At the Grandmasters level, he goes for a cannon rush, and you go for a 3 rax. Seriously? But it gets better, as the match begins you both talk about wanting to stream snipe destiny, and how upset you are that you didn't get matched up with him and instead got matched up with each other. You also tell of your recent stream sniping victims and how bad you "own them." My dream of becoming a Grandmaster literally just went down in flames, I have no desire to play games like this all of the time. It would be a complete waste my time. I'd rather play in the lower leagues and play real games than deal with these cheesy builds over and over. I can fully understand now why Idra rages when he plays people like this on the ladder.
what is your definition of a real game? One where you both sit for 15 mins, macro up then attack?
God please no, maybe once in a while but not EVERY SINGLE GAME
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I four gate a lot, but I do it after I scout as a strategic choice, not blindly stating "I'm going to 4 gate this game to counter all that Terran fast expanding junk." So I have no problem with games that aren't macro focused.
But the 6 pool and your build are totally dependant on your opponent making mistakes, cutting corners or rolling the dice on hoping they scout incorrectly, or do not scout at all. It has very little to do with your strategic skill since it is a blind strategy (ie I'm going to commit to this before I've even scouted) and often requires another blind strategy to hard counter. This just makes the game rock-paper-scissors. Thus you don't see actual improvements in your play when go up the ladder, you simply do a build that lacks strategic skill and focuses purely on small portion of the game, dragging better overall players down to a game that is unexpected and very simple, and often making it a dice roll. Even still, these builds have their place in a tourney series because if you know your opponent cut corners last game in scouting, doing one of these can punish scoutless builds. The same could be said when you repeatedly play someone on the ladder. But to blindly do is it not good and should be easily punishable (as any blind build should be). Imagine blindly banshee rushing every game, you wouldn't (shouldn't I should say) get into GM like that.
It is a bad mechanic for a RTS game as we saw Geiko go from mid-masters to #1 masters with a cheese build, and that is bad. It is upsetting because most players who are in GM and M and don't cheese every game work hard at improving their overall game and can see a correlation between their improvement and a higher ladder ranking. However, builds based around early bunker play seem to circumvent this entire system, as he has shown. While his overall game with Terran wasn't good, he was able to achieve a better rating that he did with his Protoss play with one cheesy gasless build. That is a bad mechanic, ruining any correlation between improvement in play and a higher ladder ranking.
But you also stream snipe, which is cheating, so you would do anything to win. If you looked at the monitor of your opponent in a tournament, you'd get disqualified, but since you can't get disqualified on the ladder, you pull it off shamelessly by stream sniping and bragging about it (read the chat from the combatex game). I would hope Teamliquid would have the intergrity to get rid of people like you.
User was warned for this post
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On May 26 2011 10:38 BronzeKnee wrote:
I four gate a lot, but I do it after I scout as a strategic choice, not blindly stating "I'm going to 4 gate this game to counter all that Terran fast expanding junk." So I have no problem with games that aren't macro focused.
But the 6 pool and your build are totally dependant on your opponent making mistakes, cutting corners or rolling the dice on hoping they scout incorrectly, or do not scout at all. It has very little to do with your strategic skill since it is a blind strategy (ie I'm going to commit to this before I've even scouted) and often requires another blind strategy to hard counter. This just makes the game rock-paper-scissors. Thus you don't see actual improvements in your play when go up the ladder, you simply do a build that lacks strategic skill and focuses purely on small portion of the game, dragging better overall players down to a game that is unexpected and very simple, and often making it a dice roll. Even still, these builds have their place in a tourney series because if you know your opponent cut corners last game in scouting, doing one of these can punish scoutless builds.
It is a bad mechanic for a RTS game as we saw Geiko go from mid-masters to #1 masters with a cheese build, and that is bad. It is upsetting because most players who are in GM and M and don't cheese every game work hard at improving their overall game and can see a correlation between their improvement and a higher ladder ranking. However, builds based around early bunker play seem to circumvent this entire system, as he has shown. While his overall game with Terran wasn't good, he was able to achieve a better rating that he did with his Protoss play with one cheesy gasless build. That is a bad mechanic, ruining any correlation between improvement in play and a higher ladder ranking.
But you also stream snipe, which is cheating, so you would do anything to win. If you looked at the monitor of you opponent in a tournament, you'd get disqualified, but since you can't get disqualified on the ladder, you pull it off shamelessly by stream sniping and bragging about it (read the chat from the combatex game). I would hope Teamliquid would have the intergrity to get rid of people like you.
haters be hating ^__^. Unfortunately i don't stream cheat. 1.. becauase i can't... 2.. my computer can't handle 2 programs at once.3. my friend are awesome =]
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Just played against Pride: on a 4 player map 16 nexus is definitely out of the question. I cannot really imagine how to hold it with 16 nexus, and even if it was on a 2 player map the 2 probe harass is shut down by the double barracks, so thats not worth it. Standard 1v1 map, the cb zealot off a 16 gate comes out of the gate as the scvs and i think 3 marines are across the map already.
GG Pride
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mAYbe I'm not understand, could protoss not just long range mine--> counter your main!?
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I don't think I've ever seen Pride make a command center, if you want to learn how to cheese this guy is pretty much the NA bitbybit. At least some of his all-ins are pretty interesting. Don't know why I see people still 1gate/rax expand vs. Pride though, figured they would have learned by now.
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Ironically... this is generally combated with good control and a 1 gate expo style that isn't too greedy. I like it!
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The replay vs combatex is fucking hilarious xD
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Added to my favorites for my list of builds =D
Definitely gonna play offrace and try to troll my master-league Protoss friends =D
EDIT: Btw why behind their mineral line? Can't it just be in range of the Nexus and about 2 to 3 mineral patches?
On May 26 2011 07:22 PrideTV wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 07:17 Cheerio wrote:
Can we have a rule to ban naming a guide after oneself when it has clearly no innovation whatsoever? And i'm sorry to see this work on GM level. And this is offtop, sorry. irrelevant.. If have nothing constructive to say, don't say it please. thanks!
I agree with Pride, but tbh I would never name a build after yourself unless it is COMPLETELY a new style, such as iEchoic or Spanishiwa, other than that are there really any famous builds named after a player? Exactly.
Great build again, but I would suggest not naming it after yourself =D
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How about replays of it not working? Give me a cheese build as toss and I'll give you replays of it working over and over again. Unfortunately that isn't the case, you do lose games with this build and I and many others would like to see how.
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How exactly is the timing like this vs. something like a 16 nexus on Tal'darim Altar?
I ask this because I occasionally do a 2rax (12/14) no-gas opening vs protoss on that map and other big maps, and if the timing isn't slim to the point of 12/13 being significiantly more powerful than 12/14, it'd be nice to utilize this as a way to punish those greedy protoss.
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I had i guy do something similar to me on the ladder, however, I had simply done a 3 gate robo/expand opening and had 2 stalkers and 1 zealot by the time he got to my base (this was cross positions on backwater gulch) it's not really that effective imo, unless the protoss gets extremely greedy in his builds (ie 15/16 nexus, Forge FE, etc) but is rolled by anything that is safe (which generally is how I play any Bo1/ladder game)
Though i gotta thank you for inspiring so many terrans, my PvT win rate is gonna skyrocket
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On May 26 2011 12:07 iTzAnglory wrote:Added to my favorites for my list of builds =D Definitely gonna play offrace and try to troll my master-league Protoss friends =D EDIT: Btw why behind their mineral line? Can't it just be in range of the Nexus and about 2 to 3 mineral patches? Show nested quote +On May 26 2011 07:22 PrideTV wrote:On May 26 2011 07:17 Cheerio wrote:
Can we have a rule to ban naming a guide after oneself when it has clearly no innovation whatsoever? And i'm sorry to see this work on GM level. And this is offtop, sorry. irrelevant.. If have nothing constructive to say, don't say it please. thanks! I agree with Pride, but tbh I would never name a build after yourself unless it is COMPLETELY a new style, such as iEchoic or Spanishiwa, other than that are there really any famous builds named after a player? Exactly. Great build again, but I would suggest not naming it after yourself =D
where else would you build it? next to the nexus?.
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i tried it on ladder and the guy raged so hard lol, i'm high plat.
thanks for sharing pride <3
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United States97276 Posts
On May 26 2011 12:07 iTzAnglory wrote:
I agree with Pride, but tbh I would never name a build after yourself unless it is COMPLETELY a new style, such as iEchoic or Spanishiwa, other than that are there really any famous builds named after a player? Exactly.
Great build again, but I would suggest not naming it after yourself =D
If you go to the iEchoic thread wasn't it said that iEchoic didn't invent it? Someone used it against him and iEchoic just started using it in most of his TvTs. The guy who invented it had a replay of using it against iEchoic before the thread was made or something
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tried it and love it! great guide pride
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Hey Pride can I add you for anti-cheese practice?
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edit2: WOW THIS ACTUALLY WORKS ALOT LOLLL!!
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On May 27 2011 18:31 iamke55 wrote:
Hey Pride can I add you for anti-cheese practice?
lol are you serious about that? :D
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what do you do when they open forge first?
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On May 27 2011 18:41 thedreamteam wrote:
what do you do when they open forge first?
if they cannon rush you stop it then allin, if he went for a defensive forge opener. follow your build up with 2 rax expo.
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On May 27 2011 18:48 PrideTV wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 18:41 thedreamteam wrote:
what do you do when they open forge first? if they cannon rush you stop it then allin, if he went for a defensive forge opener. follow your build up with 2 rax expo.
hmmm .. when do you build your 2nd cc?
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On May 27 2011 18:52 thedreamteam wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2011 18:48 PrideTV wrote:On May 27 2011 18:41 thedreamteam wrote:
what do you do when they open forge first? if they cannon rush you stop it then allin, if he went for a defensive forge opener. follow your build up with 2 rax expo. hmmm .. when do you build your 2nd cc?
forgot when exactly, but your marine/scv production shouldn't stop.
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i just did the strat again. i got owned by mineral walk. So guys avoid getting mineral walk and grab the least surface area so your marines do optimal dmg.
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pride time for you to make a writeup of your 5 port banshee (vs P) gatta throw in the replay against axslav and won down 40 supply lol
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On May 28 2011 03:08 isospeedrix wrote:
pride time for you to make a writeup of your 5 port banshee (vs P) gatta throw in the replay against axslav and won down 40 supply lol
can't give all my secrets away
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lol a fucking guide on 2 rax?
sorry pride ive never seen you make a command center
lol
content: this loses to good control, not worth doing this against anyhting other than nexus first. stop being bad
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On May 28 2011 18:28 ShoeFactory wrote:
lol a fucking guide on 2 rax?
sorry pride ive never seen you make a command center
lol
content: this loses to good control, not worth doing this against anyhting other than nexus first. stop being bad
irrelevant? Never made a command center, are you trying to be hysterical? This is just pure trolling..If you have nothing constructive to say, don't say it =[]
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On May 28 2011 18:28 ShoeFactory wrote:
lol a fucking guide on 2 rax?
sorry pride ive never seen you make a command center
lol
content: this loses to good control, not worth doing this against anyhting other than nexus first. stop being bad
At the end of the day, you're just a weirdo. Flaming ? lol. grow up kid.
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Sad thing is that all Terrans get reduced to the stereotype of cheesy players through the propagation of such builds.
Then trying to lable a 2 rax with SCV pull for the all-in with your name.. sad.
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Zurich15326 Posts
Please look at other guides to see the kind of quality we want to see in guide threads.
Also making 5 alt accounts to praise your own thread is pretty pathetic.
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EPT
