• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 18:39
CET 00:39
KST 08:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion6Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)16Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win When will we find out if there are more tournament I am looking for StarCraft 2 Beta Patch files Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview
Tourneys
$70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC2 AI Tournament 2026 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone
Brood War
General
Gypsy to Korea [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Video Footage from 2005: The Birth of G2 in Spain BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Navigating the Risks and Rew…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2348 users

[Poll] Cheese and All-Ins per race - Page 3

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
thoradycus
Profile Joined August 2010
Malaysia3262 Posts
May 18 2011 16:55 GMT
#41
On May 19 2011 01:43 Jonas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2011 01:01 thoradycus wrote:
can someone who voted "14+" for T tell me 14+ cheese/allin strats? I'm struggling to think of 14+...


1) Marine SCV all in
2) cloaked banshee rush
3) marine/ tank push into bunker contain
4) 4 rax stim timing
5) ghost rush and all of its variants
6) marine thor SCV all in
7) marine raven banshee push
8) fake 1 rax expand into 7 rax all in
9) blue flame hellion rush (not quite all in, but if it doesn't do a bunch of damage you're pretty behind)
10) 2 port banshee
11) tank marine banshee pressure/contain
12) proxy thor rush
13) maka rax
14) <generic 1 base play that transitions into losing the game then whining about imbalance>

1)wow, so u are saying pressure/contain/push is cheese/allin?
2) maka rax/marine scv allin should be listed as one tbh, they basically follow the same opening (2 rax)
3)this is the same with thor rushes/thor allins etc
4) you mean 4 rax rine allin? 4 rax stim timing is a standard strat in any bio FE build..
5) Cloak banshee rush making you behind if it fails really depends on the general strat you are doing..There are economical strats which make use of fast cloak banshees.
kerpal
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom2695 Posts
May 18 2011 16:56 GMT
#42
On May 19 2011 01:53 xbankx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2011 01:40 kerpal wrote:
On May 19 2011 01:38 xbankx wrote:
On May 19 2011 01:30 Skyze wrote:
On May 19 2011 01:28 Huragius wrote:
On May 19 2011 01:06 Shiladie wrote:
On May 19 2011 01:01 thoradycus wrote:
can someone who voted "14+" for T tell me 14+ cheese/allin strats? I'm struggling to think of 14+...


just vs zerg:
2 rax bunker rush
4 rax pure marine
Fake expand into marine marauder timing
fast reactor helions
fast blue flame at front
fast blue flame drop
fast banshee
Thorship

need I go on?


Wow, fast reactor hellions, blue flame drop, and banshee are cheese ? I hope you realise that after these openings Terran almost always expands ? So I guess every zerg cheeses in ZvT (*coug Muta *Cough) All these openings are cheese, but DT openings are not, stargate openings are not, fast roaches to harass teching terran is not, baneling busting FE terran is simply punishing him for being greedy and etc. Wow, I can well the bias already. Worthless thread IMO.


Yep, basically every build in the game is considered cheese. thats what this community has turned SC into.

if the game doesnt go into the 45+ minute mark, with every mineral in the game mined out, its considered all-in also.



True that. Everything that is just not defending is an all-in because I think Idra has put into the minds of many players if you attack you are all in because there is a chance that you don't do enough damage.

which is intriguing, cause every time idra makes a unit he DOESN'T MAKE A DRONE so is sacrificing econ for aggression... if he doesn't do damage with that unit he's in trouble! what a cheeser.



Pretty much unless every player goes for a fast 3rd its a 2 base all in in his mind. He always say zerg has no aggressive option versus toss. Yet when we watch Nestea play. There are so many 2 base timings to abuse against certain toss builds like ling/hydra versus pheonix opening+roach ling versus 3 gate sentry expand.

i wasn't raging against idra there, just joking that of course we all sac econ to build units, if that made something cheese then there would indeed be 20+ cheeses for t/p and about 1000000 different variants on cheese for zerg.
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
May 18 2011 16:59 GMT
#43
On May 19 2011 01:43 Jonas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2011 01:01 thoradycus wrote:
can someone who voted "14+" for T tell me 14+ cheese/allin strats? I'm struggling to think of 14+...


1) Marine SCV all in
2) cloaked banshee rush
3) marine/ tank push into bunker contain
4) 4 rax stim timing
5) ghost rush and all of its variants
6) marine thor SCV all in
7) marine raven banshee push
8) fake 1 rax expand into 7 rax all in
9) blue flame hellion rush (not quite all in, but if it doesn't do a bunch of damage you're pretty behind)
10) 2 port banshee
11) tank marine banshee pressure/contain
12) proxy thor rush
13) maka rax
14) <generic 1 base play that transitions into losing the game then whining about imbalance>

Note: If loosing your units without doing anything with them is considered allin, then most things you do can be considered allins.

3 is hardly an allin(and less so cheese). rine/tank push doesn't require bunkers, so adding acontain there is just stupid.
5 I suppose depends on what exactly you are talking about.
6 and 12 are basically the same thing.
9 and 10 are neither allins. If you don't loose your hellions due to greed or stupidity, you are in decent shape with a lot of map control.

Tbh a lot of these things are kind of "i mean toss can do a 1 gate and pull probes with the zlot and make allin". Terran is just a race dependent on harassing or making the opponent play very defensively, so a lot of the attacks are basically qq.
KevinIX
Profile Joined October 2009
United States2472 Posts
May 18 2011 17:02 GMT
#44
How the hell are there 14+ all-in builds.
Liquid FIGHTING!!!
iSTime
Profile Joined November 2006
1579 Posts
May 18 2011 17:02 GMT
#45
On May 19 2011 01:03 Shiladie wrote:
Please let's not use the results as excuses to whine!
Instead lets look at how the results here reflect how volatile each matchup is.


The point is that these poll results don't reflect how volatile each matchup is whatsoever.

In fact, the premise that more effective one base builds is strongly correlated with volatility of the matchup is flawed as well.
www.infinityseven.net
Attica
Profile Joined February 2010
United States277 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-18 17:06:59
May 18 2011 17:06 GMT
#46
I'm curious to why so many people voted for 14+ one base all ins for Zerg. Are you guys being serious?

6 pool
baneling bust
7 roach rush

Someone post the other 11.
Deadlyfish
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark1980 Posts
May 18 2011 17:08 GMT
#47
On May 19 2011 02:06 Attica wrote:
I'm curious to why so many people voted for 14+ one base all ins for Zerg. Are you guys being serious?

6 pool
baneling bust
7 roach rush

Someone post the other 11.


According to the OP, that is 9 right there.

They count for 1 for each matchup. So 6 pool counts 3 times etc.
If wishes were horses we'd be eating steak right now.
Shiladie
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1631 Posts
May 18 2011 17:09 GMT
#48
On May 19 2011 01:13 thoradycus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2011 01:06 Shiladie wrote:
On May 19 2011 01:01 thoradycus wrote:
can someone who voted "14+" for T tell me 14+ cheese/allin strats? I'm struggling to think of 14+...


just vs zerg:
2 rax bunker rush
4 rax pure marine
Fake expand into marine marauder timing
fast reactor helions
fast blue flame at front
fast blue flame drop
fast banshee
Thorship

need I go on?

fast reactor hellions into CC is(or was) a standard mech strat,i dont see how fast hellions is cheese at all.


To answer this (+other similar posts)
Yes, you're right I was a little hasty with some of those. Though to be fair, the sheer number of options that terran can go, that if the zerg doesn't manage to scout it and prepare perfectly, the terran gets a roll-over is getting a little absurd, and it seems to be increasing by the day.
SuperStyle
Profile Joined March 2011
United States976 Posts
May 18 2011 17:12 GMT
#49
Most zerg biased thread ever, just what we need.
kerpal
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United Kingdom2695 Posts
May 18 2011 17:12 GMT
#50
On May 19 2011 02:09 Shiladie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2011 01:13 thoradycus wrote:
On May 19 2011 01:06 Shiladie wrote:
On May 19 2011 01:01 thoradycus wrote:
can someone who voted "14+" for T tell me 14+ cheese/allin strats? I'm struggling to think of 14+...


just vs zerg:
2 rax bunker rush
4 rax pure marine
Fake expand into marine marauder timing
fast reactor helions
fast blue flame at front
fast blue flame drop
fast banshee
Thorship

need I go on?

fast reactor hellions into CC is(or was) a standard mech strat,i dont see how fast hellions is cheese at all.


To answer this (+other similar posts)
Yes, you're right I was a little hasty with some of those. Though to be fair, the sheer number of options that terran can go, that if the zerg doesn't manage to scout it and prepare perfectly, the terran gets a roll-over is getting a little absurd, and it seems to be increasing by the day.

it's hard, but it would be easier if they WERE cheeses, cause then you'd essentially be winning by holding them off, instead you hold them off and are maybe at a slight advantage.. maybe not.
Mellon
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden917 Posts
May 18 2011 17:14 GMT
#51
On May 19 2011 02:12 SuperStyle wrote:
Most zerg biased thread ever, just what we need.


TL.net is extremely zerg-biased, been forever...
thoradycus
Profile Joined August 2010
Malaysia3262 Posts
May 18 2011 17:14 GMT
#52
On May 19 2011 02:09 Shiladie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 19 2011 01:13 thoradycus wrote:
On May 19 2011 01:06 Shiladie wrote:
On May 19 2011 01:01 thoradycus wrote:
can someone who voted "14+" for T tell me 14+ cheese/allin strats? I'm struggling to think of 14+...


just vs zerg:
2 rax bunker rush
4 rax pure marine
Fake expand into marine marauder timing
fast reactor helions
fast blue flame at front
fast blue flame drop
fast banshee
Thorship

need I go on?

fast reactor hellions into CC is(or was) a standard mech strat,i dont see how fast hellions is cheese at all.


To answer this (+other similar posts)
Yes, you're right I was a little hasty with some of those. Though to be fair, the sheer number of options that terran can go, that if the zerg doesn't manage to scout it and prepare perfectly, the terran gets a roll-over is getting a little absurd, and it seems to be increasing by the day.

in this case you r quite right. terrans do have alot of options, and sometimes very deadly ones, just disagree that some of those could be classified as cheese/allin
MrStorkie
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom697 Posts
May 18 2011 17:15 GMT
#53
Somebody tell me why cheese is called cheese!?!?
1a2a3a4z5z6d7d8d9p0p
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
May 18 2011 17:20 GMT
#54
On May 19 2011 02:15 MrStorkie wrote:
Somebody tell me why cheese is called cheese!?!?

Because:
  • People either love it or hate it.
  • It's full of holes.
  • You can smell it from a mile away.
  • It doesn't deserve a thread.
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 11h 21m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft541
ProTech133
Nathanias 70
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 760
Artosis 563
Shuttle 252
HiyA 29
Dota 2
syndereN372
febbydoto12
League of Legends
C9.Mang0235
Counter-Strike
Foxcn316
Other Games
summit1g6756
FrodaN1515
Beastyqt830
Maynarde98
XaKoH 76
Mew2King29
minikerr26
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV28
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 59
• RyuSc2 44
• Laughngamez YouTube
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21205
Other Games
• imaqtpie2884
• Scarra1189
• Shiphtur212
Upcoming Events
OSC
11h 21m
Shameless vs MaNa
Nicoract vs Percival
Krystianer vs TBD
Cure vs SHIN
PiGosaur Monday
1d 1h
The PondCast
1d 10h
OSC
1d 11h
Big Brain Bouts
3 days
Serral vs TBD
BSL 21
4 days
BSL 21
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

IPSL Winter 2025-26
SC2 All-Star Inv. 2025
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W5
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.