Today i watched the lagtv appology video on youtube, and unless i understand things wrong it seems like it was major flack because of the usage of the word rape.
Its pretty hard to sort through everything on the comments... so was it truly just the language that was the problem for certain people? (in such case they should be dragged into the forest and disembowled with a wooden cooking spoon)
is there anyone here that can give a proper play by play? or even have some recording of it?
I have a decent interest in people and the language they use, or more in the direction the way people try to control it.. so it did peak my interest when someone who i think does the great thing of simply going at it on the fly and say whatever pops out gets internet shit thrown at them because what seems to be a simple word.
Only thing i have to go on for the true context is their last episode of when cheese fails (go watch is.. its awesome!) where they mentioned something about spine crawlers and rape in the same sentence.. and of course my first thought was.. hey.. someone does like em big..
and an important question to ask yourself before going at someone saying that a spine crawler forcefully raped a marine (dont know if that was the case or whatever.. just an example)... is that worse than having a spine crawler jab its spine into a marines head causing major trauma and probably ripping its spleen out through his nose?
but anyways.. I give humanity a chance.. and i hope that there's more to this than "bad" language
I didn't watch any of it, but lagtv probably used the word rape as in 'ravaged' or 'destroyed,' not the sexual term. If that is the case, lagtv shouldn't be apologizing. However, if the spine crawler incident was used sexually, then it may not be very audience friendly.
I think it was one of those day9 king of the beta situations where they show a 'funny' sc2 clip without looking at it. Personally I don't even really notice when people say offensive words so I'm not exactly sure what they did wrong
On April 19 2011 16:26 CoSyN wrote: I didn't watch any of it, but lagtv probably used the word rape as in 'ravaged' or 'destroyed,' not the sexual term. If that is the case, lagtv shouldn't be apologizing. However, if the spine crawler incident was used sexually, then it may not be very audience friendly.
yeah i would think they went for the maim/kill/murder/destroy/slaugther approach.. though with those guys its hard to tell
but its still the problem of nasl if they decide to air it... oh i wish i could see that recording its probably decently funny at least..
On April 19 2011 16:31 travis wrote: political correctness bullshit is what it is
Seriously, I've been playing games online since I was a kid, and using the term 'rape' in the context of dominating someone is basically a staple of gaming lexicon. I've never met anyone offended by it ever; now all of a sudden it's a big taboo and we're burning NASL/Lag TV at the stake?
I feel like people just want to bitch about something for the sake it.
I don't think anyone bitched at lag/nasl at all. Nobody. I think lag just realized it didn't represent them very well. That's their prerogative i guess.
Being funny means that a lot of your sins are forgiven. An off-color joke might be forgiven it it's legitimately funny. Incontrol makes a lot of insulting comments but has a lot of fans because he's freaking hilarious.
What I'm trying to say is that if the segment had been funny, there barely would have been any furor at all. But it wasn't.
Is this really already an incident? As soon as that dude said "rape" I knew there was going to be a lot of fallout... It's a shame that such a word is so pervasive in the larger gaming culture, but there it is. And that being said, it's easy to use a word without thinking of it's meaning after having used it so much in dissociation with that meaning.
On April 19 2011 16:31 travis wrote: political correctness bullshit is what it is
Thank you for speaking the truth. People need to realize that words don't have "definite" meanings. Everyone and their grandmother knows that in the context of esports "rape" has nothing to do with the sexual crime at all. Words themselves can never be "insulting", words are just letters. It's the meaning they convey that - may or may not - insult people. Therefore, claiming that using the word "rape" is bad when clearly the underlying meaning isn't offensive, isn't just strange....it is even plain wrong.
It would be like if I'claimed you had to apologize for using the word "teamliquid" when in my language it also meant "bad child molester". It doesn't matter at all what some meaning in some context is when the word is used in a different context where it means something completely different.
Why are people so sensitive... like really? It's online Starcraft not dinner with the President. I don't even know why they are apologizing. It's not like it's on public cable television, it's a private stream that they are letting people access for free if they choose. If you want "political correct" content then get off ur comp and put in The Lion King or something. The content wasn't even remotely offensive anyway lol...
On April 19 2011 16:40 gogogadgetflow wrote: I don't think anyone bitched at lag/nasl at all. Nobody. I think lag just realized it didn't represent them very well. That's their prerogative i guess.
I can't speak about what was said to the NASL or LAGtv directly,but the LR thread here was full of bitching about it. The thread soon became a mess of people complaining about wcf and how we saw a good chunk of a game 3 before games 1 or 2 were shown. incontrol said a few things here and there, and said he didn't want wcf to return to the NASL and would lobby against having them again (paraphrasing).
Most of the complaints I remember were about the word rape or people just not finding it funny.
what the, i dont even.. i dont try to be mean but is this kinda a usa problem? demuslim was the one i think, at DH who said something about 'rape' and 'face' talking about a game situation and i dont think anyone even remembers it properly because its just not a problem in europe.
If you want to make esports acceptable, if you want to get sponsors, if you want SC2 to be something that can be shown on TV, you have to drop this internet lingo, ironic racism, ironic misogyny, and of course drop the word "rape" no matter how much you hate women and think they're all sluts for not looking at you during class.
I am glad they decided to apologize, and I hope the next LAGTV episode will be both funnier and cleaner.
On April 19 2011 16:35 Dagobert wrote: Pretty sure Day9 said 'rape[-d,-ing]' during one of the matches at DH, so I don't think the mere mention of the word would stir much debate.
Demuslim uses it all the time when casting games - online and offline events alike - and while there are a few people pointing out it might not be appropriate there has never been any kind of real backlash, not like this.
On April 19 2011 16:31 travis wrote: political correctness bullshit is what it is
Seriously, I've been playing games online since I was a kid, and using the term 'rape' in the context of dominating someone is basically a staple of gaming lexicon. I've never met anyone offended by it ever; now all of a sudden it's a big taboo and we're burning NASL/Lag TV at the stake?
I feel like people just want to bitch about something for the sake it.
No, people have serious experiences with rape, and there have been heated debates about the word's usage on these forums for awhile. I did not hear the joke that happened on the NASL stream so I can't really comment on it, but the OP summed it up for me when he said the first thing he thought of was, "hey... someone does like em big." That is showing me that he really hasn't thought about rape all that much. Rape is a forced nonconsensual sexual act... "liking em big" has nothing to do with that. To OP: Please think about what you say before you make sweeping judgmental (and somewhat violent) criticisms of others.
Thank you for speaking the truth. People need to realize that words don't have "definite" meanings. Everyone and their grandmother knows that in the context of esports "rape" has nothing to do with the sexual crime at all.
Yes, words do not have definite meanings. They have different meanings for every person. For some people in some cultures they bring up associations that the word does not for you or others. I don't know why, but I feel it mostly the casters from the US that use the word, but not the european ones. I'm feeling always a bit offended and uncomfortable when people say things like "its like rape, the zerglings are my hand and the roaches are my mighty roach dick". It's just an analogy that I don't want to hear.
You might call it political correctness. Others might be offended. Easy solution: Just not use it.
On April 19 2011 16:31 travis wrote: political correctness bullshit is what it is
Did you watch the episode? Most TL'ers weren't offended (who complained, of course) because they heard some bad word god forbid their holy and virginal ears would understand, it was because when you're going for a comedy routine involving off-color humour, there's a really fine line between the soft spot of the morality of the prevalecent culture and just bad taste, regardless of your moral stance.
Something like South Park walks that line a lot, with more hits than misses for most of its audience, whereas this particular show (I watched another random episode just to see if they were always that vulgar or this was just a "miss" and imo, this was more the latter, although still not exactly my cup of tea when it comes down to humor) was just bad and overly vulgar. There's no "political correctness bullshit" going on, just an admittance to a very poor show.
Maybe just put a disclaimer at the end of every broadcast that reads:
"In the event the word rape is used it is with the understanding that it means to destroy or pillage an enemy and has no sexual connotations attached to it. Get your minds out of the gutter."
I'm a firm believer that there is no such thing as bad humor. There are lines that are pretty damn close that some people flirt with, but using the word rape simply isn't one of them to me.
What's the context? I don't see anything wrong with talking about collosi raping marines or something like that. The meaning of rape would be very obvious. The meaning of rape would not be sex related at all. Some people make it that way though and then they complain.
On April 19 2011 16:39 Jerubaal wrote: I think NASL should just stop issuing apologies from here on out. If you don't like it, don't watch it.
I agree with this. They are constantly improving. People don't seem to realize that they rebroadcast for Europe and stream in 480p for FREE. The GSL doesn't restream for America and their HQ is about 480 (correct me if I'm from). They are doing their absolute best and people shouldn't be so quick to judge.
People didn't like the clip because" when cheese fails" is such low brow 13 yo pandering.However since TL has such hash moderation on direct criticism, the community focused on them saying rape because its seen as a more legitimate complaint. Lets all just criticize "WCF" for being unfunny canned laughter trash not for using insults common throughout the gaming community.
Anyone that has a problem with it, please get over it. Its not a big deal! there is bigger things to worry about it this world than a misperceived word...
Are they even serious in that apology? I don't really get it.
Anyway, I think there are better words than rape, but I wouldn't start complaining if it was used either. Hardly the first cast I've seen it in, dreamhack invitational is one example.
On April 19 2011 16:41 Bosu wrote: I couldn't care less about the words they used. The problem was it just wasn't very good.
Yeah i turned off the stream after about 3 seconds of it. Who is it meant to appeal to? Like the videos on tv of people falling down stairs or whatever are funny to thick people, but hopefully in an esport we can assume a basic level of intelligence.
It's sad such things are always blown out of proportion. When jinro said fuck on GSL, there was some people who was very upset and I know it's because you never swear on American TV. Well. if they're aiming on ESPN I think they need to start censoring. If they're aiming international and online, they should not.
I did not like the "when cheese fails" not for the casting or it's language, but because of the game they used.
It was a terrible newbie game where a protoss tries to cannon rush a zerg and the zerg does a bad job defending it and then counters with a proxy hatch with spines. Very short/simple things happened, but it was drawn out over like 13 minutes or something stupid like that.
Some of their comedy seemed pretty mediocre, but their casting wasn't too bad aside from certain things. I don't remember any racial sort of things, personally.
On April 19 2011 16:41 Bosu wrote: I couldn't care less about the words they used. The problem was it just wasn't very good.
Yeah i turned off the stream after about 3 seconds of it. Who is it meant to appeal to? Like the videos on tv of people falling down stairs or whatever are funny to thick people, but hopefully in an esport we can assume a basic level of intelligence.
It has nothing to do with intelligence, some people we're offended by the language used in the stream. That's it, the quality of the jokes is dependent on the individual's sense of humor.
They have some funny replays sent to them, but none of what they say is funny in the least. It seems like they stumbled on a great idea and are trying to cash in on it, but they are just not funny at all.
For some it's a big deal. For others it is not. The NASL is trying to appease the MOST people and nobody will get mad if we DON'T use the word rape but people WILL get mad if we DO use the word rape. So obviously we have a word that only had negative results for us and obviously we will do everything we can to avoid said word.
If they want to use that language all the power to them. We aren't going to use that word
Again, the video WAS approved by someone at the NASL and it was a stupid thing for that person to do. So no, the fault does not entirely lay with the LagTV guys. They are free to send us dozens of videos of them trivializing that word if they like. It is up to us to decide what goes up and one of our staff members made that mistake.
Really no drama here at all. In fact I think it's great that this video essentially recognizes that they (LagTV) understand the word isn't the greatest. Lets just leave it at that?
The word 'rape' should never be used in professional casting. I've heard it a few times and I cringe whenever I do.
I acknowledge that I am more offended by the word than most people are and I understand that some people can hear the word without being affected by it - however it is still an extremely unprofessional thing to say. Can you imagine Tastosis saying it as they cast the GSL?
There are PLENTY of other words to use. Here, i'll provide a sentence and a list of alternatives
sexual violence should not be a metaphor for victory or success. seriously bros think about that, i've been meaning to make a post about the ubiquity of the word and the gleeful tone in which its often said, its something we shouldn't be doing. obviously i've slipped and a kid growing up immersed in the internet for a time it was part of my vocabulary, just like sexual and racial slurs.
if a caster had used a racial slur, they would apologize. if a caster used a sexual slur, they would apologize. rape is a gender slur, it exists because of patriarchy and invoking it especially in a positive way is bigoted and disgusting. thank you for apologizing i'm proud of you and just because a few people think you're caving in to "political correctness" just means that they don't have a conscience not that you are weak.
Obviously when they said "rape" or when Day9 or whoever it was said it, was not meant litterally rape as in sexual assualt, that is common sense.
But the problem with this kind of thinking is that you can take ANY word and use it in a way that is not meant to insult anyone, if "rape" is okay, why not use "fag" or any other offensive term? If Marauders are suppose to be colored men in SC2, should we call a mass Marauder build a "N***** rush?".
Sure the internet lingo community will know that none of this is meant as an insult but purely terms that we as a community accept
..But how does this sound to someone who just tuned in? It probably sounds horrible, because "rape" is not used in the world of sports which we tend to sometimes compare e sports to, if someone said rape on air they would get fined and probably get fired in mere hours after the broadcast.
And what does this add really? Does "he sure raped him on Xel Naga!" sound that much better and cooler than "he sure dominated him on Xel Naga!"?. So you are risking alienting possible people who might be sensitive to the term and for what really? To make some kind of statement that we on the internet dont care about rules maaaan'? We are just wild and out of control and edgy? We ride on our Harleys with leatherjackets, sunglasses on, we dont care about rules, we stick it up to the cops, drink booze at bars and get into fights!
Sounds like an attempt to make us look cool and badass, like a teenager who gets his ears pierced or gets a tat or a fake ID.
For all of those saying words are not offensive in certain contexts... I would have completely agreed with you 5 years ago. However, I now have a very close friend who was raped as a child, and every time someone uses the word "rape" jokingly (which is often), she cringes and then smiles as though she gets the joke. And each time I can tell a little part of her is dying. So maybe grow up and don't use the word cuz there is a reason it offends some people. Those that are offended merely by the word and have no personal experience are most likely trying to stir up things for no reason other than drama. But believe me, there's people that are personally offended.
On April 19 2011 17:04 Velr wrote: Rape in game terms for me just means "utter domination". I don't get the issue at all..
Lot of replies like this. Probably useful to consider that the meaning in competitive gaming communities is actually the exception. 95% of regular people will take offence to its usage, and a high proportion of the communities that NASL would like to reach will too (evidently).
I'm afraid it's not possible to provide all potential viewers with a primer on how to interpret this particular corner of the internet before they view its content. NASL is trying to expand into new communities, and that's precisely the time you need to be most careful about what you put out.
Aside: The objective difference between references to extreme violence and sexual violence is moot. Sexual violence references are simply de facto unacceptable to most people. Seems an odd point to bring up in the OP, rather a subject more suited to its own thread.
I have only seen a couple of when cheese fails episodes, but isn't this there kind of humor. Going to Lagtv and asking for content and being surprised with the adult nature is like asking Richard Pryor to do standup and being surprised when he swears.
What i absolutely don't agree with, is the drama some people make out of it when it gets used anyway.
I mean, most likely the person that used it wasn't really willingly to "use" that certain word, it's more like a slip and when english is your second language it's a really, really practical word (it's very short and to the point for the terminology that it gets used in games).
You should try to avoid it, but you should not make some ridiculous drama out of it when it gets used from time to time.
Thats why i don't get the Issue... If someone would use it all the time as his standart term then yes, there would be an issue. But afaik this is and was never the case here?
Will throw my 2 cents in. Firstly hearing the term doesn't bother me in the slightest although I don't use it personally, however you have to realise to some people it is a disgusting and highly offensive word which in there eyes is being used flippantly. Secondly, In my personal opinion using words such as murdered or slaughtered is far more acceptable due to the nature of the game being combative these words are applicable........... on the other hand show me a game where a unit got "raped".
As for the "well we don't use it in a sexual context" argument, saying X is raping Y's units or X player just totally raped Y player is just not an appropriate situation in which to use that word........ why use that word if you mean to say dominated, say dominated!
If people seriously want to see esports become more mainstream etc that word has no place in it!
good that they apologised. such a word is obvisiously not acceptable. unfortunately words like "rape", "fags" etc etc is pretty common in the sc2 universe
On April 19 2011 16:31 travis wrote: political correctness bullshit is what it is
Seriously, I've been playing games online since I was a kid, and using the term 'rape' in the context of dominating someone is basically a staple of gaming lexicon. I've never met anyone offended by it ever; now all of a sudden it's a big taboo and we're burning NASL/Lag TV at the stake?
I feel like people just want to bitch about something for the sake it.
No, people have serious experiences with rape, and there have been heated debates about the word's usage on these forums for awhile. I did not hear the joke that happened on the NASL stream so I can't really comment on it, but the OP summed it up for me when he said the first thing he thought of was, "hey... someone does like em big." That is showing me that he really hasn't thought about rape all that much. Rape is a forced nonconsensual sexual act... "liking em big" has nothing to do with that. To OP: Please think about what you say before you make sweeping judgmental (and somewhat violent) criticisms of others.
i have a pretty good understanding of what rape is thank you.. even enough to know that some people actually like getting raped.. and i almost feel sorry for them.. because in a way.. since they like it... its kind of consensual.. therefore in a way not rape..
And what i think when i hear about spine crawler rape have nothing to do with those people who have had serious experiences with rape.. maybe the marine liked it... no one knows.. it might have been the marines dream to go too hell/heaven with a spike jammed up his rear end..
But as mentioned abit below your oh so informative text.. torture.. murder.. Dont you have problems with people saying that the banelings (suicide bombers of a grand caliber) liquified tons of marines and left them in a pool of green acid? Do you think of the victims of Hiroshima every time you see a ghost tosses a nuke on a workerline? Hell i bet you even dont care about the fact that every marine and marauder take so much stim they almost kill themselves.. what about the drug addicts!?! do you think marines have to go into rehab? we have to ask blizzard... drug abuse is not funny... and many have traumas because of it.. but thinking of a marine tied to a bed watching a baby crawl around on the walls is
I know perfectly well that i have a seriously fucked up way of thinking, and most of my friends have too so it doesn't actually help much another nice picture is that basicly you could sell a video clip of a marine getting raped by a spine crawler as tentacle hentai... a firends girlfriends like that kind of stuff.. i should give her that idea...
On April 19 2011 16:31 travis wrote: political correctness bullshit is what it is
Seriously, I've been playing games online since I was a kid, and using the term 'rape' in the context of dominating someone is basically a staple of gaming lexicon. I've never met anyone offended by it ever; now all of a sudden it's a big taboo and we're burning NASL/Lag TV at the stake?
I feel like people just want to bitch about something for the sake it.
i wouldn't call it a gender slur.... men can be raped. women can be raped. animals can be raped. rape also refers to the plunder/pillage of a city.
Even so... this isn't your backyard casting job; If you can't say it on cable TV casters should try to avoid saying it just for reasons of professionalism.
On April 19 2011 17:30 Sarang wrote: The word 'rape' should never be used in professional casting. I've heard it a few times and I cringe whenever I do.
I acknowledge that I am more offended by the word than most people are and I understand that some people can hear the word without being affected by it - however it is still an extremely unprofessional thing to say. Can you imagine Tastosis saying it as they cast the GSL?
There are PLENTY of other words to use. Here, i'll provide a sentence and a list of alternatives
Rape have no world in casting, it makes the caster seem extremely unprofessional. And what's worse is that people accept the word? Seriously, go wikipedia.
On April 19 2011 16:22 ZergOwaR wrote: and an important question to ask yourself before going at someone saying that a spine crawler forcefully raped a marine (dont know if that was the case or whatever.. just an example)... is that worse than having a spine crawler jab its spine into a marines head causing major trauma and probably ripping its spleen out through his nose?
On April 19 2011 16:31 travis wrote: political correctness bullshit is what it is
Naw your thought process is bullshit, all you vaginas should man up and learn to deal with it.
Rape is a pretty horrible word to use in most parts of society. You want to grow a brand, a business? You don't use words like this. You want to potentially have a show that will cater to more women or possibly families with kids? You don't use words like this.
Saying it's down to being just PC is childless ignorance at best. While each of you individually may react different to a host of different words, believe it or not, there's a segment of the population who really don't like that word. Also some of these people may have kids who don't want to watch SC2 when commentators throw around certain words.
The only counter argument I can think of is that they want to narrow their customer base to the demographic defending the use of this word.
On April 19 2011 16:26 CoSyN wrote: I didn't watch any of it, but lagtv probably used the word rape as in 'ravaged' or 'destroyed,' not the sexual term. If that is the case, lagtv shouldn't be apologizing. However, if the spine crawler incident was used sexually, then it may not be very audience friendly.
yeah i would think they went for the maim/kill/murder/destroy/slaugther approach.. though with those guys its hard to tell
but its still the problem of nasl if they decide to air it... oh i wish i could see that recording its probably decently funny at least..
People are actually offended by hearing some say "rape"? Really? I guess things are just different in the US. Didn't apollo say something about facerape and other stuff at the dreamhack invitational? Whats the big deal?
Somewhat confused.
edit: Sure, I can understand people pointing out that using the word rape during a cast might not make it seem very professional. But some people on here seem genuinely offended. Like they kicked their cat or something.
Really? There are so many points to criticise and people are picking on this one??? Sometimes, I just don't understand the world... <.<
Btw. I can't believe that when the op mentioned lagtv it was meant seriously. :o I thought it was a joke, fitting as it may be seeing the european rebroadcast.
This is an absolute joke. Whoever the people were that compalined they need to get a life and stop trying to stir up trouble and get attention.
After all, its a goddamn game, sure its a big toruney but is there really anyone watching it apart from gamers? No.
I use "rape" loads when im playing games and i see no problem whatsoever with it. "I seriously just got raped in theass by a mothership" Whats wrong with that? Nothing.
On April 19 2011 16:45 motbob wrote: Being funny means that a lot of your sins are forgiven. An off-color joke might be forgiven it it's legitimately funny. Incontrol makes a lot of insulting comments but has a lot of fans because he's freaking hilarious.
What I'm trying to say is that if the segment had been funny, there barely would have been any furor at all. But it wasn't.
Yeah, pretty much this. Goddamn that segment was painful. I remember thinking "why am I watching bronze-leaguers fail at cheese while these two idiots tell racial stereotype and dick jokes instead of watching game 1 of painuser vs cloud?". And then of course on top of that they accidentally skip to game 3 of the series anyway, spoiling game 1 and 2 and forcing them to last minute re-edit the cast.
Offensive humor has it's place and can be funny, but that segment came out of nowhere, and I don't remember anyone saying "this is too much starcraft to watch, we really need a long ass comedy break!" NASL tries way too hard to create "value" and "content" with gimmicks like when cheese fails instead of just making the games themselves the best experience they could be. The show it too long as it is, I wish they would just power through the games.
If anything, they didn't need to apologize for using offensive language (although they never really gave any warning there would be anything offensive on the cast), they needed to apologize for wasting everyones time with 13-year old humor instead of giving us freaking games.
On April 19 2011 16:57 Jinsho wrote: Hey you idiots.
If you want to make esports acceptable, if you want to get sponsors, if you want SC2 to be something that can be shown on TV, you have to drop this internet lingo, ironic racism, ironic misogyny, and of course drop the word "rape" no matter how much you hate women and think they're all sluts for not looking at you during class.
I am glad they decided to apologize, and I hope the next LAGTV episode will be both funnier and cleaner.
User was temp banned for this post.
This was strange to me. In a discussion where Pro-Rape people are claiming that 'words don't mean anything, they're just letters,' someone gets banned for using words like 'idiot'. There appears to be a disconnect between people who have never met a rape victim and those of us who have.
People that make drama about this are just pathetic in my eyes. You seriously have nothing better to do then to /cry about a gaming tournament that used the word 'rape'? 99% of the people crying don't actually care at all but just take every possible chance to whine about everything yay for the internet and about tv... cmon people SC2 isn't gonna be on tv outside of Korea, there is no culture or fanbase for it and it really isn't gonna explode all of the sudden. We should be more then happy with what we have now and maybe that can grow bigger in the future, but tv? no
What I don't get is why no one complains if a word like 'genocide' is used in a cast since the imagery it invokes is much more direct (in the context of what's actually happening in the game) and brutal.
On April 19 2011 16:31 travis wrote: political correctness bullshit is what it is
Seriously, I've been playing games online since I was a kid, and using the term 'rape' in the context of dominating someone is basically a staple of gaming lexicon. I've never met anyone offended by it ever; now all of a sudden it's a big taboo and we're burning NASL/Lag TV at the stake?
I feel like people just want to bitch about something for the sake it.
No, people have serious experiences with rape, and there have been heated debates about the word's usage on these forums for awhile. I did not hear the joke that happened on the NASL stream so I can't really comment on it, but the OP summed it up for me when he said the first thing he thought of was, "hey... someone does like em big." That is showing me that he really hasn't thought about rape all that much. Rape is a forced nonconsensual sexual act... "liking em big" has nothing to do with that. To OP: Please think about what you say before you make sweeping judgmental (and somewhat violent) criticisms of others.
Dont you have problems with people saying that the banelings (suicide bombers of a grand caliber) liquified tons of marines and left them in a pool of green acid? Do you think of the victims of Hiroshima every time you see a ghost tosses a nuke on a workerline? Hell i bet you even dont care about the fact that every marine and marauder take so much stim they almost kill themselves.. what about the drug addicts!?! do you think marines have to go into rehab? we have to ask blizzard...
I know right? It's like do people get mad when Fantasy is called a terrorist? Should casters stop saying "kill" or "die" because killing is bad?
To all the people who don't have a problem with the word rape and think its funny- you're too young or too immature to truly understand the meaning and the connotation of the word.
Yea people say it all the time- on the internet. Do you blab about rape at college, or at your job, or in front of your parents? I doubt it, or at least I hope not.
There's a reason you don't, and that reason is the same reason it shouldn't be mentioned when a large show is broadcasting to the public.
I didn't watch the video but if thats actually what the apology was for than good; because an apology was due.
On April 19 2011 16:57 Jinsho wrote: Hey you idiots.
If you want to make esports acceptable, if you want to get sponsors, if you want SC2 to be something that can be shown on TV, you have to drop this internet lingo, ironic racism, ironic misogyny, and of course drop the word "rape" no matter how much you hate women and think they're all sluts for not looking at you during class.
I am glad they decided to apologize, and I hope the next LAGTV episode will be both funnier and cleaner.
User was temp banned for this post.
This was strange to me. In a discussion where Pro-Rape people are claiming that 'words don't mean anything, they're just letters,' someone gets banned for using words like 'idiot'. There appears to be a disconnect between people who have never met a rape victim and those of us who have.
You cannot be serious??
Have you ever played games in your life or have you just came onto here to argue? And its not a Pro-Rape discussion,i can't believe you actually called it that.
On April 19 2011 17:52 Soliduok wrote: To all the people who don't have a problem with the word rape and think its funny- you're too young or too immature to truly understand the meaning and the connotation of the word.
Yep. But also, it's the internet, we're living in a culture of indifference/4chan. It's so comfortable sitting at home, and behaving with (almost) no inhibitions, particularly when everyone else seems to be doing it.
I don't think that some little word should be so disturbing for a nation that enjoy watching murder and torture for fun, putting a 1/3 of the black population in jail for smoking a herb, killing people as punishment etc. They have much worst things to fix before they start thinking about other peoples toughts on the use of the english language, a language they didn't even make up themself.
James said som "nasty words" during dreamhack inv. and they had sponsors and one of the best shows for 2011, I guess we in europe is just more mature when it comes to these kind of things.
this is just silly lagtv got asked to do this not the other way round, did the people at nasl just not watch the content then be like UPPS IT HAS SWEARING IN IT. So silly. People are so over sensative its like every-thing offends people here.
On April 19 2011 17:30 iNcontroL wrote: pretty cut and dry
For some it's a big deal. For others it is not. The NASL is trying to appease the MOST people and nobody will get mad if we DON'T use the word rape but people WILL get mad if we DO use the word rape. So obviously we have a word that only had negative results for us and obviously we will do everything we can to avoid said word.
I'm mad at censorship, I feel unappeased.
No I don't, I just wanted to use the word "appease" for the first time really badly. I am however surprised it's a big deal for some.
On April 19 2011 17:46 pStar wrote: Im seriously laughing my ass off.
This is an absolute joke. Whoever the people were that compalined they need to get a life and stop trying to stir up trouble and get attention.
After all, its a goddamn game, sure its a big toruney but is there really anyone watching it apart from gamers? No.
I use "rape" loads when im playing games and i see no problem whatsoever with it. "I seriously just got raped in theass by a mothership" Whats wrong with that? Nothing.
tl;dr get a life grow up
Go make a rape joke, or even use the word, around a rape victim.
Then you might realise that you are the one who needs to grow up.
On April 19 2011 16:31 travis wrote: political correctness bullshit is what it is
Agreed, the usual hypocrisy.
What hypocrisy?
Heh, the only thing I hate more than political correctness is being vehemently anti-PC.
Not going to get into that its a hornets nest, but the bottom line is people need a fucking dose of reality. Find some real issues to complain about rather than this bullshit.
On April 19 2011 17:50 Jakkerr wrote: People that make drama about this are just pathetic in my eyes. You seriously have nothing better to do then to /cry about a gaming tournament that used the word 'rape'? 99% of the people crying don't actually care at all but just take every possible chance to whine about everything yay for the internet and about tv... cmon people SC2 isn't gonna be on tv outside of Korea, there is no culture or fanbase for it and it really isn't gonna explode all of the sudden. We should be more then happy with what we have now and maybe that can grow bigger in the future, but tv? no
have YOU been a victim of a rape? According to your answer is guess not. Now imagine someone who gets raped and imagine someone who looses a SC2 game. Ignorance for the win..
On TV and professional sports commentary I guess "rape" would be considered out of place, so indeed if you want NASL to be as professional as possible, don't say it. But people are overblowing this way out of proportions.
On April 19 2011 17:46 pStar wrote: Im seriously laughing my ass off.
This is an absolute joke. Whoever the people were that compalined they need to get a life and stop trying to stir up trouble and get attention.
After all, its a goddamn game, sure its a big toruney but is there really anyone watching it apart from gamers? No.
I use "rape" loads when im playing games and i see no problem whatsoever with it. "I seriously just got raped in theass by a mothership" Whats wrong with that? Nothing.
tl;dr get a life grow up
Go make a rape joke, or even use the word, around a rape victim.
Then you might realise that you are the one who needs to grow up.
rape 1 (rp) n. 1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse. 2. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction. 3. Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice. tr.v. raped, rap·ing, rapes 1. To force (another person) to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse; commit rape on. 2. To seize and carry off by force. 3. To plunder or pillage.
On April 19 2011 17:46 pStar wrote: Im seriously laughing my ass off.
This is an absolute joke. Whoever the people were that compalined they need to get a life and stop trying to stir up trouble and get attention.
After all, its a goddamn game, sure its a big toruney but is there really anyone watching it apart from gamers? No.
I use "rape" loads when im playing games and i see no problem whatsoever with it. "I seriously just got raped in theass by a mothership" Whats wrong with that? Nothing.
tl;dr get a life grow up
Go make a rape joke, or even use the word, around a rape victim.
Then you might realise that you are the one who needs to grow up.
Why would I do that though?
I know thats wrong and it shouldn't be done but its in a completely different context. If i just went up and said "Rape" sure that would be offensive. But im not going to and I have used it in a completely different context.
On April 19 2011 16:57 Jinsho wrote: Hey you idiots.
If you want to make esports acceptable, if you want to get sponsors, if you want SC2 to be something that can be shown on TV, you have to drop this internet lingo, ironic racism, ironic misogyny, and of course drop the word "rape" no matter how much you hate women and think they're all sluts for not looking at you during class.
I am glad they decided to apologize, and I hope the next LAGTV episode will be both funnier and cleaner.
User was temp banned for this post.
This was strange to me. In a discussion where Pro-Rape people are claiming that 'words don't mean anything, they're just letters,' someone gets banned for using words like 'idiot'. There appears to be a disconnect between people who have never met a rape victim and those of us who have.
I know people that were killed in combat oversees but I don't bitch and moan when a caster makes a funny comment about a medivac full of marines getting shot down. It's just harmless humor, deal with it.
I assume he meant Pro-rape as is in pro using the word rape in esports and not the act itself........... but you have just pointed out the whole hypocrisy and stupidity of this entire argument as you took what he said in a different context as to how he meant it, which is the entire point people are trying to make when using this word.
On April 19 2011 17:59 Jiddra wrote: rape 1 (rp) n. 1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse. 2. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction. 3. Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice. tr.v. raped, rap·ing, rapes 1. To force (another person) to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse; commit rape on. 2. To seize and carry off by force. 3. To plunder or pillage.
This has nothing to do with my post.
On April 19 2011 18:00 pStar wrote: Why would I do that though?
I know thats wrong and it shouldn't be done but its in a completely different context. If i just went up and said "Rape" sure that would be offensive. But im not going to and I have used it in a completely different context.
Context doesn't help a lot when the word itself can be traumatic.
Yeah, i don't mind foul language or anything, but rape is one of those words that probably should be avoided for professionalism's sake (i've been trying to make a conscious effort of using the word less). That being said, I won't be super upset if it is used, but I will cringe a bit.
It's better for esports if we try to avoid stepping on some of the more sensitive words of our language if we want to expand our appeal .
On April 19 2011 18:01 Spicy Pepper wrote: Yeah, you guys are right, they should also use the N-word and slurs against gays. I mean no one takes it seriously, so wtf at their uptightness.
Grow up. Rape has different meanings. Stop being such a child and being sensitive about everything.
To me, it appears as if YOU need to grow up. You have to understand that words mean different things to different people - this is more than just calling someone an idiot or a bitch. Rape is one of the worst things people can do to one another, and it can cause deep psychological problems. To some, this word carries quite a heavy meaning, and light usage of it can be hurtful and extremely offensive to them.
Plus it makes our community look like shit if we just use the word casually.
On April 19 2011 17:46 pStar wrote: Im seriously laughing my ass off.
This is an absolute joke. Whoever the people were that compalined they need to get a life and stop trying to stir up trouble and get attention.
After all, its a goddamn game, sure its a big toruney but is there really anyone watching it apart from gamers? No.
I use "rape" loads when im playing games and i see no problem whatsoever with it. "I seriously just got raped in theass by a mothership" Whats wrong with that? Nothing.
tl;dr get a life grow up
Go make a rape joke, or even use the word, around a rape victim.
Then you might realise that you are the one who needs to grow up.
rape 1 (rp) n. 1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse. 2. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction. 3. Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice. tr.v. raped, rap·ing, rapes 1. To force (another person) to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse; commit rape on. 2. To seize and carry off by force. 3. To plunder or pillage.
holocaust
–noun 1. a great or complete devastation or destruction, especially by fire. 2. a sacrifice completely consumed by fire; burnt offering. 3. ( usually initial capital letter ) the systematic mass slaughter of European Jews in Nazi concentration camps during world War II (usually preceded by the ). 4. any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life.
I'm glad there finally is at least some kind of discussion about this topic (it's obviously impossible to discuss it here, this thread is basically 4 pages of insults to people who don't like this use of the word rape) but I personally think it's disgusting to talk about rape like it's funny.
On April 19 2011 17:50 Jakkerr wrote: People that make drama about this are just pathetic in my eyes. You seriously have nothing better to do then to /cry about a gaming tournament that used the word 'rape'? 99% of the people crying don't actually care at all but just take every possible chance to whine about everything yay for the internet and about tv... cmon people SC2 isn't gonna be on tv outside of Korea, there is no culture or fanbase for it and it really isn't gonna explode all of the sudden. We should be more then happy with what we have now and maybe that can grow bigger in the future, but tv? no
have YOU been a victim of a rape? According to your answer is guess not. Now imagine someone who gets raped and imagine someone who looses a SC2 game. Ignorance for the win..
Haha, so if sum1 of my family would get killed the casters shouldn't say killed or died during fights because it offends me and the other people that know sum1 that got killed? Ignorance for the win..
On April 19 2011 16:57 Jinsho wrote: Hey you idiots.
If you want to make esports acceptable, if you want to get sponsors, if you want SC2 to be something that can be shown on TV, you have to drop this internet lingo, ironic racism, ironic misogyny, and of course drop the word "rape" no matter how much you hate women and think they're all sluts for not looking at you during class.
I am glad they decided to apologize, and I hope the next LAGTV episode will be both funnier and cleaner.
User was temp banned for this post.
This was strange to me. In a discussion where Pro-Rape people are claiming that 'words don't mean anything, they're just letters,' someone gets banned for using words like 'idiot'. There appears to be a disconnect between people who have never met a rape victim and those of us who have.
I know people that were killed in combat oversees but I don't bitch and moan when a caster makes a funny comment about a medivac full of marines getting shot down. It's just harmless humor, deal with it.
It's harmless because no one is offended or made uncomfortable with it. That's not the case with rape. It's hard for me to understand why people are trying hard to rationalize the use of the word rape.
On April 19 2011 18:01 Spicy Pepper wrote: Yeah, you guys are right, they should also use the N-word and slurs against gays. I mean no one takes it seriously, so wtf at their uptightness.
Grow up. Rape has different meanings. Stop being such a child and sensitive about everything.
+1 for learning that rape has different meanings today. Were you inside the head of the caster at the moment it was said and telepatheically know which meaning he was using? I don't think you'd defend the answer.
On April 19 2011 17:46 pStar wrote: Im seriously laughing my ass off.
This is an absolute joke. Whoever the people were that compalined they need to get a life and stop trying to stir up trouble and get attention.
After all, its a goddamn game, sure its a big toruney but is there really anyone watching it apart from gamers? No.
I use "rape" loads when im playing games and i see no problem whatsoever with it. "I seriously just got raped in theass by a mothership" Whats wrong with that? Nothing.
tl;dr get a life grow up
Go make a rape joke, or even use the word, around a rape victim.
Then you might realise that you are the one who needs to grow up.
rape 1 (rp) n. 1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse. 2. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction. 3. Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice. tr.v. raped, rap·ing, rapes 1. To force (another person) to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse; commit rape on. 2. To seize and carry off by force. 3. To plunder or pillage.
holocaust
–noun 1. a great or complete devastation or destruction, especially by fire. 2. a sacrifice completely consumed by fire; burnt offering. 3. ( usually initial capital letter ) the systematic mass slaughter of European Jews in Nazi concentration camps during world War II (usually preceded by the ). 4. any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life.
Haha, what? Do you mean a holocaust is a "bad" word? I wouldn't even blink if it was used in the right situation.
have YOU been a victim of a rape? According to your answer is guess not. Now imagine someone who gets raped and imagine someone who looses a SC2 game. Ignorance for the win..
I cannot stand people like this, really huh? What about a murder joke? Or a retard joke?
That list is endless, and you can't please everyone.
It's easy to point fingers, when in fact you're the same guy that makes jokes about other stuff rude to "some people"
However, with a word like rape, which usually in gaming context has little to do with the sexual act mind you, all of a sudden there's a couple hypocrites out there who feel it is their right to enforce their little word-fobia on others.
And here I was thinking this was an apology video about them being simply not funny, while casting a terrible bronze level game. Instead there's a huge thing about them saying rape.
TBH I saw the stream live and they made quite a lot of vulgar jokes that were simply not funny, that was a lot more off putting for me personally than using the word rape.
On April 19 2011 17:46 pStar wrote: Im seriously laughing my ass off.
This is an absolute joke. Whoever the people were that compalined they need to get a life and stop trying to stir up trouble and get attention.
After all, its a goddamn game, sure its a big toruney but is there really anyone watching it apart from gamers? No.
I use "rape" loads when im playing games and i see no problem whatsoever with it. "I seriously just got raped in theass by a mothership" Whats wrong with that? Nothing.
tl;dr get a life grow up
Go make a rape joke, or even use the word, around a rape victim.
Then you might realise that you are the one who needs to grow up.
rape 1 (rp) n. 1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse. 2. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction. 3. Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice. tr.v. raped, rap·ing, rapes 1. To force (another person) to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse; commit rape on. 2. To seize and carry off by force. 3. To plunder or pillage.
holocaust
–noun 1. a great or complete devastation or destruction, especially by fire. 2. a sacrifice completely consumed by fire; burnt offering. 3. ( usually initial capital letter ) the systematic mass slaughter of European Jews in Nazi concentration camps during world War II (usually preceded by the ). 4. any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life.
Must force myself to not say Kill it with fire anymore after reading nr 1 oh wait
On April 19 2011 18:01 Spicy Pepper wrote: Yeah, you guys are right, they should also use the N-word and slurs against gays. I mean no one takes it seriously, so wtf at their uptightness.
Grow up. Rape has different meanings. Stop being such a child and being sensitive about everything.
To me, it appears as if YOU need to grow up. You have to understand that words mean different things to different people - this is more than just calling someone an idiot or a bitch. Rape is one of the worst things people can do to one another, and it can cause deep psychological problems. To some, this word carries quite a heavy meaning, and light usage of it can be hurtful and extremely offensive to them.
Plus it makes our community look like shit if we just use the word casually.
On April 19 2011 17:46 pStar wrote: Im seriously laughing my ass off.
This is an absolute joke. Whoever the people were that compalined they need to get a life and stop trying to stir up trouble and get attention.
After all, its a goddamn game, sure its a big toruney but is there really anyone watching it apart from gamers? No.
I use "rape" loads when im playing games and i see no problem whatsoever with it. "I seriously just got raped in theass by a mothership" Whats wrong with that? Nothing.
tl;dr get a life grow up
Go make a rape joke, or even use the word, around a rape victim.
Then you might realise that you are the one who needs to grow up.
rape 1 (rp) n. 1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse. 2. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction. 3. Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice. tr.v. raped, rap·ing, rapes 1. To force (another person) to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse; commit rape on. 2. To seize and carry off by force. 3. To plunder or pillage.
holocaust
–noun 1. a great or complete devastation or destruction, especially by fire. 2. a sacrifice completely consumed by fire; burnt offering. 3. ( usually initial capital letter ) the systematic mass slaughter of European Jews in Nazi concentration camps during world War II (usually preceded by the ). 4. any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life.
Haha, what? Do you mean a holocaust is a "bad" word? I wouldn't even blink if it was used in the right situation.
His point is that just because the word has several (all terrible) meanings, that it doesn't mean we should make light of the word and use it or think of it casually. You don't (in public) joke about 6 million jews dieing. Should you joke about someone being raped (and don't give me the bullshit about it having different meanings - the different meanings stem from popular slang to derive someone getting taken advantage of, whatever the setting, which alludes to the actual imagery of rape).
On April 19 2011 18:05 Psychobabas wrote: PATHETIC.
In Dreamhack, DeMuslim said "rape" as well but I dont see any shitstorms about that.
Get your act together America.
Honestly, I thought it was rather off-putting for DeMuslim to use the word. What is it with people? Some people are made uncomfortable by a choice of words - and since the audience is the entire Western world, with a lot of different subcultures - and instead of avoiding the word, people who feel uncomfortable are attacked.
I think people were more offended by how awful the humor was than by the few obscenities that occurred. I wouldn't even care if incontrol and gretorp said some player got raped in his game, as long as they didn't say it in a ridiculously annoying and unfunny manner.
EPT
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