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Active: 1525 users

how do you detect a changeling in tvz

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nyc863
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
200 Posts
March 31 2011 00:07 GMT
#1
Ok, so I see an overseer poke in and (from the replay) he has dropped a changeling which has morphed to a marine and is set to follow my marines, so a time-limited spy.

If I suspect this in game, but am not sure, how do I quickly find where he is?
BossPlaya
Profile Joined September 2010
United States141 Posts
March 31 2011 00:09 GMT
#2
Scan or build a turret/raven?

User was warned for this post
Paid tha cost to be The Boss.
NoisyNinja
Profile Joined February 2011
United States991 Posts
March 31 2011 00:09 GMT
#3
Either you see it come in somewhere or if you see marines not following your orders, click on them, and it will say Changeling, at which point, you should kill it. If you see a marine where you didn't put one, kill him if it's a changeling. Look for the guy that doesn't belong.
NoisyNinja
Profile Joined February 2011
United States991 Posts
March 31 2011 00:10 GMT
#4
On March 31 2011 09:09 BossPlaya wrote:
Scan or build a turret/raven?


Scans/detection don't do shit vs. a changeling. They just make you waste a scan/resources.
Wilder
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom33 Posts
March 31 2011 00:12 GMT
#5
That's the annoying thing about changlings, if you don't notice one getting in, chances are you wont realise it's there until it's timer runs out.
gg F10 n
Aequos
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada606 Posts
March 31 2011 00:15 GMT
#6
What I usually do, if I suspect a changeling, is select my units and type /dance. The ones that don't dance are changlings, and are killed on sight. However, this has led to unfortunate moments where I've mistaken which one was the changeling...
I first realized Immortals were reincarnated Dragoons when I saw them dancing helplessly behind my Stalkers.
nyc863
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
200 Posts
March 31 2011 00:16 GMT
#7
yeah turret raven ghost - no effect.

On March 31 2011 09:09 NoisyNinja wrote:
Either you see it come in somewhere or if you see marines not following your orders, click on them, and it will say Changeling, at which point, you should kill it. If you see a marine where you didn't put one, kill him if it's a changeling. Look for the guy that doesn't belong.


I've had this before, if he orders a changeling to stand @ a position it just stands there and ignores commands. Kind of obvious the second time this ever happens what is going on. First time I thought the game was bugged, lol.

But if I have a group of marines and changeling has been set to follow, I'm still unsure how to fast find it. What order can I give to pick him out without clicking each marine in turn and ordering them to move. Seems impossible?
NoisyNinja
Profile Joined February 2011
United States991 Posts
March 31 2011 00:17 GMT
#8
On March 31 2011 09:12 Wilder wrote:
That's the annoying thing about changlings, if you don't notice one getting in, chances are you wont realise it's there until it's timer runs out.


Seeing as everyone else gets a rather free and not really noticeable/easy to stop scouting option, Zerg got a little bit of love.

Terran: Scan-noticeable, but impossible to stop.
Protoss: Observer-not that easy to notice if you aren't looking for it, but detection in the right place at the right time can stop it.
Zerg: Ovy sac-noticeable and easy to stop. Snipe the ovy and you just stopped it. Changeling-hard to get in vs. players with a god-like map sense, but once they are in, hard to stop.
Jeffbelittle
Profile Joined August 2010
United States468 Posts
March 31 2011 00:17 GMT
#9
Select all your units by double clicking. Any units not high lighted are indeed changelings.
NoisyNinja
Profile Joined February 2011
United States991 Posts
March 31 2011 00:19 GMT
#10
On March 31 2011 09:16 nyc863 wrote:
yeah turret raven ghost - no effect.

Show nested quote +
On March 31 2011 09:09 NoisyNinja wrote:
Either you see it come in somewhere or if you see marines not following your orders, click on them, and it will say Changeling, at which point, you should kill it. If you see a marine where you didn't put one, kill him if it's a changeling. Look for the guy that doesn't belong.


I've had this before, if he orders a changeling to stand @ a position it just stands there and ignores commands. Kind of obvious the second time this ever happens what is going on. First time I thought the game was bugged, lol.

But if I have a group of marines and changeling has been set to follow, I'm still unsure how to fast find it. What order can I give to pick him out without clicking each marine in turn and ordering them to move. Seems impossible?


Well, you really can't, unless this method (I haven't tested it yet) works:

Move your marines by control clicking them. Look for the guy who isn't highlighted (has green circle around them or some colored circle). Click on him. Now check if he is real or fake.
MonsieurGrimm
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada2441 Posts
March 31 2011 00:21 GMT
#11
If you select all the marines and tell them to move, if there's a changeling in there I believe that there will be a message saying "unit cannot be controlled" or something to the like in red text.

If not, I guess you could do the /dance thing. One suggestion I have is to shoot the suspect with only one marine. If you're right, the changeling only has 5 hp and dies from the first shot. If you're wrong, you're only down a couple hitpoints on one marine.
"60% of the time, it works - every time" - Brian Fantana on Double Reactors All The Way // "Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
March 31 2011 00:21 GMT
#12
On March 31 2011 09:15 Aequos wrote:
What I usually do, if I suspect a changeling, is select my units and type /dance. The ones that don't dance are changlings, and are killed on sight. However, this has led to unfortunate moments where I've mistaken which one was the changeling...


Zerg player - "Ah there's all his marines..."
Terran - "/dance"
Zerg player - "......" *attacks*
Yargh
NoisyNinja
Profile Joined February 2011
United States991 Posts
March 31 2011 00:27 GMT
#13
On March 31 2011 09:21 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
If you select all the marines and tell them to move, if there's a changeling in there I believe that there will be a message saying "unit cannot be controlled" or something to the like in red text.

If not, I guess you could do the /dance thing. One suggestion I have is to shoot the suspect with only one marine. If you're right, the changeling only has 5 hp and dies from the first shot. If you're wrong, you're only down a couple hitpoints on one marine.


I never really got the "/dance" thing. How you do it? Type in "/dance"?
nyc863
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
200 Posts
March 31 2011 00:29 GMT
#14
the /dance thing works but that is a bit of typing..

moving all the marines doesn't help if the changeling is set to follow. He will follow. I'll have to look at the highlight circles to see if one is missing.

I found another method, you box the army then do a fast N/S/E/W move click (or even E/W/E/W), the unit that does not turn to face each click direction is the changeling.
Authweight
Profile Joined May 2010
United States304 Posts
March 31 2011 00:30 GMT
#15
Umm you should never accidentally kill a marine, or even shoot at it, thinking its a changeling.

1: Changelings, when selected, are called changelings
2: Changelings can be killed by a simple right click, no need to use the attack command
NoisyNinja
Profile Joined February 2011
United States991 Posts
March 31 2011 00:30 GMT
#16
On March 31 2011 09:29 nyc863 wrote:
the /dance thing works but that is a bit of typing..

moving all the marines doesn't help if the changeling is set to follow. He will follow. I'll have to look at the highlight circles to see if one is missing.

I found another method, you box the army then do a fast N/S/E/W move click (or even E/W/E/W), the unit that does not turn to face each click direction is the changeling.


Tell me the /dance thing. I want to know how to do it so spotting changelings is easier.
CodECleaR
Profile Joined November 2010
United States395 Posts
March 31 2011 00:34 GMT
#17
On March 31 2011 09:15 Aequos wrote:
What I usually do, if I suspect a changeling, is select my units and type /dance. The ones that don't dance are changlings, and are killed on sight. However, this has led to unfortunate moments where I've mistaken which one was the changeling...


Most epic way to detect a changeling.
Most.
Epic.
How do you beat a terran who's hardcore turtling off 3 base? Flip him on his back and walk away."
Aequos
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada606 Posts
March 31 2011 00:34 GMT
#18
On March 31 2011 09:30 NoisyNinja wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2011 09:29 nyc863 wrote:
the /dance thing works but that is a bit of typing..

moving all the marines doesn't help if the changeling is set to follow. He will follow. I'll have to look at the highlight circles to see if one is missing.

I found another method, you box the army then do a fast N/S/E/W move click (or even E/W/E/W), the unit that does not turn to face each click direction is the changeling.


Tell me the /dance thing. I want to know how to do it so spotting changelings is easier.


I'm pretty sure you just type /dance in chat with your marines selected. Instead of popping up as a message, it'll make them dance. It's a holdover from WoW.
I first realized Immortals were reincarnated Dragoons when I saw them dancing helplessly behind my Stalkers.
Tazerenix
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia340 Posts
March 31 2011 00:53 GMT
#19
MKP found an amazing way of doing it in the WC Team League.

Clump your marines, kill a few, cross fingers hoping they are changelings. Continue Playing

On a More serious note: I think the /dance is the best method of finding changelings.
iChau
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1210 Posts
March 31 2011 00:57 GMT
#20
I always glance at the minimap, and as soon as I see a dot I just right-click on the unit.

This is PvZ, and it's the same thing as TvZ because against ling/baneling zerg can afford overseers better than roach/hydra so I go zealot/sentry.

Just glance at a minimap. There's NO reason for a marine to be walking towards your army when you had it stationary.
us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1688911/1/SaniShahin/ | http://teamenvy.net/
bearjuice
Profile Joined November 2010
United States98 Posts
March 31 2011 01:01 GMT
#21
Umm i thought it was blatantly obvious. 3 things to look, hear for

1)Everytime a changeling is dropped it gives you an audio clue, sounds like a chipmunk getting strangled. Just like the nydus network it can be heard by everyone.

2) you can click on the units and they are clearly marked changeling. I always listen for step one before i move onto step 2

3) The changeling doesn't have any of the tech patterns on it. If you have speedlings, it looks like a zergling, if you have a marine with shield it looks like a normal marine, if you have a zealot with legs it doesn't have the legs.

Other than that you just have to really listen for that audible queue and then look for the changeling.
"Tis a good day to die!"
Psychopomp
Profile Joined April 2010
United States237 Posts
March 31 2011 01:05 GMT
#22
You only have to right click to attack a changeling. No A-click necessary.
justaguy-aaa
Profile Joined March 2011
4 Posts
March 31 2011 01:07 GMT
#23
Well I think the best way to find the changeling is to kill it before it joins your clump of marines. I dunno everytime I try changeling, opponents detects it easily. It is really depends on their skill i reckon
iChau
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1210 Posts
March 31 2011 01:08 GMT
#24
or when you hear a kaploosh sound
us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1688911/1/SaniShahin/ | http://teamenvy.net/
Juddas
Profile Joined January 2011
768 Posts
March 31 2011 01:28 GMT
#25
On March 31 2011 10:01 bearjuice wrote:


3) The changeling doesn't have any of the tech patterns on it. If you have speedlings, it looks like a zergling, if you have a marine with shield it looks like a normal marine, if you have a zealot with legs it doesn't have the legs.

Other than that you just have to really listen for that audible queue and then look for the changeling.



90% sure that this one is not true because in the Map editor it has changeling (with combat sheid) and etc.
closey
Profile Joined October 2010
Hong Kong272 Posts
March 31 2011 02:51 GMT
#26
It's always best to kill a changling when it is getting dropped and morphing. It is hell hard trying to kill an enemy changling that has already morphed as a zerg player...especially if that damn cling is running around your base.
Rock, Paper, Scissors
WhatsHisFace
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada10 Posts
March 31 2011 05:03 GMT
#27
If you hold your cursor over them the coloured ring beneath them will be yellow.
threehundred
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada911 Posts
March 31 2011 05:17 GMT
#28
just takes practice looking at the mini-map for weird movement. only things that should be yours that are active are your rallied troops and the workers on the mineral line
KimTaeyeon MEDIC MU fighting! ^^;;
reneg
Profile Joined September 2010
United States859 Posts
March 31 2011 05:30 GMT
#29
On March 31 2011 09:27 NoisyNinja wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2011 09:21 MonsieurGrimm wrote:
If you select all the marines and tell them to move, if there's a changeling in there I believe that there will be a message saying "unit cannot be controlled" or something to the like in red text.

If not, I guess you could do the /dance thing. One suggestion I have is to shoot the suspect with only one marine. If you're right, the changeling only has 5 hp and dies from the first shot. If you're wrong, you're only down a couple hitpoints on one marine.


I never really got the "/dance" thing. How you do it? Type in "/dance"?


yes. that's literally all you do

Enter
/dance
Enter

watch as a decent number of units dance (lings, zealots marines hydras etc), important note: all things changelings turn into dance.
moose...indian
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10361 Posts
March 31 2011 05:34 GMT
#30
just make sure you check your army often

if you have good presence (apm etc.) then it should be no problem, a random stray marine walking around your base should be obvious, and you should see it walking to your army (if you don't, then up your presence)
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
Rodeo
Profile Joined December 2010
United States39 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-31 05:43:19
March 31 2011 05:42 GMT
#31
I love how half the replies in this thread are "I'm not sure, but I think X" wrong thing. If you don't know, why are you typing? Changelings do not get upgrades, so if you are Z the easiest way is to look for the slow zergling. I'm not a T player so I don't know if it's easy to notice that a marine doesn't have a combat shield, but the next easiest way is to select *only* the possible changeling and give it a command, which it won't follow. /dance works too, but you have to type it out and you shouldn't use it when you might be attacked. At a high level players know where all their units should be and often how many should be there, so they will usually notice changelings immediately. High level zergs are more apt to use changelings as disposable scouts that can take a different path through the base as the overseer so as to get vision of a greater area or to sit at a watchtower.
You say you want lurkers? I want scourge! Bye bye colossi.
FudgeMunkey
Profile Joined March 2011
Australia59 Posts
March 31 2011 05:51 GMT
#32
You should highlight your whole army and those marines without the circle below them are changelings.
Eventually in the game though you should be putting missile turrets around you base anyway and then you can obviasly see them.
"Those who brag are the real losers" :D
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
March 31 2011 05:53 GMT
#33
you can also attack a neutral building(mengsk statue/rocks) and see who doesnt fire
RogerX
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
New Zealand3180 Posts
March 31 2011 05:53 GMT
#34
Listen and there will be a noise when spawned for a short time.
Stick it up. take it up. step aside and see the world
Fraidnot
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States824 Posts
March 31 2011 06:10 GMT
#35
So you can just spam right click real quick on every marine and they'll just kill the changeling?
Deleted User 101379
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
4849 Posts
March 31 2011 06:20 GMT
#36
Simply watch out for a unit your box selection doesn't select. If your group is too big, just make a quick split into 4 parts, should be more obvious then. Then rightclick the unit and it will die.
I always found changelings to be kind of obvious, they very rarely seem to work on any experienced player. I'd love if they could burrow to the destination and then have a stealth-unburrow so that they could unburrow in a clump of marines without being detected.
TiBe
Profile Joined November 2009
Mexico200 Posts
March 31 2011 06:24 GMT
#37
On March 31 2011 09:34 CodECleaR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2011 09:15 Aequos wrote:
What I usually do, if I suspect a changeling, is select my units and type /dance. The ones that don't dance are changlings, and are killed on sight. However, this has led to unfortunate moments where I've mistaken which one was the changeling...


Most epic way to detect a changeling.
Most.
Epic.


Hahahah this!!!

Regarding the OP, the easier way is to select all the units type (marine/zergling/zealot) and move them, the one that isn't selected (and can't be selected) is the fake one
Asparagus
Profile Joined December 2010
United States269 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-31 06:33:02
March 31 2011 06:31 GMT
#38
Tricked some really gullible Bronze Leaguer that my changeling could take the form of buildings and that I could see all his SCVS and his Planetary Fortress being built, which led to him bringing his thor army and 1shotting the closest buildings to his Planetary fortress, 3 supply depots and a factory.

but ways to spot them

picking up units, and one can't be lifted, stimming and 1 not responding, or /dance
This isn't the right quote!
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44917 Posts
March 31 2011 06:32 GMT
#39
On March 31 2011 10:01 bearjuice wrote:
1)Everytime a changeling is dropped it gives you an audio clue, sounds like a chipmunk getting strangled.


Every time you let a changeling roam through your base, Chuck Norris strangles a chipmunk.

-Watch for a unit that doesn't follow your orders.
-Watch for a unit that doesn't have the same upgrades/ visual research as your units.
-Clicking on a changeling will reveal that it's a spy
-They apparently can't dance (just type /dance)
-Check your base for roaming marines whenever you see an overseer nearby
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Leeto
Profile Joined August 2007
United States1320 Posts
March 31 2011 06:32 GMT
#40
Units set on follow tend to bumble around a lot trying to get to the guy they're following. If you see someone acting strange after a move command, kill him.

Asparagus
Profile Joined December 2010
United States269 Posts
March 31 2011 06:35 GMT
#41
On March 31 2011 15:32 Leeto wrote:
Units set on follow tend to bumble around a lot trying to get to the guy they're following. If you see someone acting strange after a move command, kill him.




"OKAY LET'S GO!"
"MOVE MOVE MOVE"

*nudge* "Ey-yo Frankie's actin all weird n shit"
"Guy musta had one too many stims... Frankie cut that crap out and just follow us!"
Frankie: "GURRGLELGLELE"
"Whatever... OK ON THREE, ONE, TWO, THREE, A-MOVE!"
This isn't the right quote!
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44917 Posts
March 31 2011 06:48 GMT
#42
On March 31 2011 15:32 Leeto wrote:
Units set on follow tend to bumble around a lot trying to get to the guy they're following. If you see someone acting strange after a move command, kill him.



Good thing dragoons were removed, eh?
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
urashimakt
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1591 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-31 06:53:43
March 31 2011 06:52 GMT
#43
On March 31 2011 14:42 Rodeo wrote:
I love how half the replies in this thread are "I'm not sure, but I think X" wrong thing. If you don't know, why are you typing? Changelings do not get upgrades, so if you are Z the easiest way is to look for the slow zergling. I'm not a T player so I don't know if it's easy to notice that a marine doesn't have a combat shield, but the next easiest way is to select *only* the possible changeling and give it a command, which it won't follow. /dance works too, but you have to type it out and you shouldn't use it when you might be attacked. At a high level players know where all their units should be and often how many should be there, so they will usually notice changelings immediately. High level zergs are more apt to use changelings as disposable scouts that can take a different path through the base as the overseer so as to get vision of a greater area or to sit at a watchtower.

You just mocked people for posting information without checking to make sure it's right and did it yourself! Come on, man. Be nice or be right, or both!

Changelings placed prior to upgrades won't receive the upgrade visuals, but they will morph with a shield (for marines) or wings (for zerglings) if the owner of the unit they're detecting has those upgrades. They do not receive the speed bonus from the upgrade (for protoss/zerg).

[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler [Full sized image] +

[image loading]


The best method I've seen for detecting it as a marine is to double click your marines and try to notice one wasn't selected. Also, if you've stimmed and one lags behind it's probably a changeling.
Who dat ninja?
Krissam
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark189 Posts
March 31 2011 06:58 GMT
#44
On March 31 2011 09:57 iChau wrote:
I always glance at the minimap, and as soon as I see a dot I just right-click on the unit.

This is PvZ, and it's the same thing as TvZ because against ling/baneling zerg can afford overseers better than roach/hydra so I go zealot/sentry.

Just glance at a minimap. There's NO reason for a marine to be walking towards your army when you had it stationary.

you know how much gas bling/myta/upgrades/tech costs? god forbid you addin a few festors.

The reason overseers are more popular zvp is very simple, mutas are good scouts aswell
If you can chill, chill!" - TLAF-Liquid´Tyler
TUski
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1258 Posts
March 31 2011 07:02 GMT
#45
One tactic that I've seen used against me is where you rapidly click "move" with the group of marines that the changeling is set to follow. What ensues is that your marines will move back and forth rapidly, and there is a delay on the changeling's movements because it is always facing the unit that it was set to follow.
"There is nothing more cool than being proud of the things that you love." - Day[9]
Deleted User 101379
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
4849 Posts
March 31 2011 07:02 GMT
#46
On March 31 2011 15:52 urashimakt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2011 14:42 Rodeo wrote:
I love how half the replies in this thread are "I'm not sure, but I think X" wrong thing. If you don't know, why are you typing? Changelings do not get upgrades, so if you are Z the easiest way is to look for the slow zergling. I'm not a T player so I don't know if it's easy to notice that a marine doesn't have a combat shield, but the next easiest way is to select *only* the possible changeling and give it a command, which it won't follow. /dance works too, but you have to type it out and you shouldn't use it when you might be attacked. At a high level players know where all their units should be and often how many should be there, so they will usually notice changelings immediately. High level zergs are more apt to use changelings as disposable scouts that can take a different path through the base as the overseer so as to get vision of a greater area or to sit at a watchtower.

You just mocked people for posting information without checking to make sure it's right and did it yourself! Come on, man. Be nice or be right, or both!

Changelings placed prior to upgrades won't receive the upgrade visuals, but they will morph with a shield (for marines) or wings (for zerglings) if the owner of the unit they're detecting has those upgrades. They do not receive the speed bonus from the upgrade (for protoss/zerg).

[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler [Full sized image] +

[image loading]


The best method I've seen for detecting it as a marine is to double click your marines and try to notice one wasn't selected. Also, if you've stimmed and one lags behind it's probably a changeling.


- "Ok, all units in selection Stim and attack"
- "Hey, those 4 guys lag behind, shoot them"
- "Wait, they didn't die like changelings... f***, those were the marines i rallied from the rax on my units"

Just remember to always confirm before shooting the poor marines you just forgot to add to the selection.
lazydino
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada331 Posts
March 31 2011 07:15 GMT
#47
Changeling = parasite from BW ?!? :DD
"I have this moron thing that I do, it's called thinking" - George Carlin
Morphs
Profile Joined July 2010
Netherlands645 Posts
March 31 2011 07:18 GMT
#48
Not being able to right-click to kill a changeling would definitely buff this (quite useless) unit. It should be treated as one of your own units. So right-clicking should result in your units following the changeling. Consistency ftw.
Amandil
Profile Joined May 2010
United States58 Posts
March 31 2011 07:24 GMT
#49
Stim all your marines, the one thats still full life is a changling. Shoot it.
nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
March 31 2011 07:36 GMT
#50
On March 31 2011 16:24 Amandil wrote:
Stim all your marines, the one thats still full life is a changling. Shoot it.


If I can get terrans to stim their marines simply for detecting a changling, I might start use it more.

On March 31 2011 10:07 justaguy-aaa wrote:
Well I think the best way to find the changeling is to kill it before it joins your clump of marines. I dunno everytime I try changeling, opponents detects it easily. It is really depends on their skill i reckon


I don't know, I've gone from silver to diamond and most people regardless of league tend to kill the changling quite fast. Maybe I've just been unlucky.
Banelings are too cute to blow up
urashimakt
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1591 Posts
March 31 2011 07:48 GMT
#51
On March 31 2011 14:03 WhatsHisFace wrote:
If you hold your cursor over them the coloured ring beneath them will be yellow.

I double checked that and it's actually not true. Mousing over a changeling that's disguised as one of your units cons green. However, if you click on it there's a few discrepancies: it's named Changeling, it has no weapon icon, it lacks the attribute types (Light, Biological, etc), it doesn't receive speed upgrades, and it has 0 armor no matter what.
Who dat ninja?
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15353 Posts
March 31 2011 08:36 GMT
#52
As you can see there are tons of possibilities
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