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Savior plays BW games on Afreeca - Page 69

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Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
November 10 2011 10:23 GMT
#1361
On November 10 2011 14:27 Grettin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 13:55 konadora wrote:
On November 09 2011 22:42 Grettin wrote:
On November 09 2011 22:40 konadora wrote:
On November 09 2011 22:29 Rojam wrote:
To be fair, there are pro sc2 players, who were cheating in bw and got caught. I won't drop any names, but they've gotten a second chance as well.

what? name me some, i'm interested


I'm pretty sure he means people who map-hacked or abused something. You should know these foreign players who did so.

nah sorry.. i don't read foreign news :<

but if they are caught, why are they allowed to play again?


Hard to say. All the players i can think of who did something like this are (or were) in a pretty respectable/big team(still in SC2). So i guess they have been forgiven. But IMO what they did isn't nowhere near as bad as what Savior and co did.


Two that I know of didn't do it in tournament environment afaik, and one that did got suspended from all TL events for I believe a year?
asdfVSqwert
Profile Joined July 2006
Germany174 Posts
November 10 2011 10:27 GMT
#1362
On November 10 2011 19:12 konadora wrote:
as someone who's followed bw esports scene in korea from quite early on, and being the most passionate savior fan ever, i say this:

savior is a scumbag as a human, because why? he's never apologised. he played the main role, he was the reason why the match-fixing started. what rotinegg says sums up exactly how i feel about savior's actions


Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 10:28 rotinegg wrote:
On November 10 2011 09:11 mapthesoul wrote:
On November 10 2011 07:39 rotinegg wrote:
On November 10 2011 07:31 HFL wrote:
Compared to the other match fixers, Savior didn't really have a big part in it. Yes he was a broker, which in Korea some people think it's even worse than actual match fixing. The punishments that were given to Savior were not nearly as severe as the others like Hwasin's and Justin's. The whole scandal entirely brought down BW, not just Savior, he didn't play as big of a part as some people may think. Although the actions he did were still bad and probably unforgivable for most people, I think he should be given a chance to relieve his image.

justin played just as big of a role; the only two progamers that were punished were infact savior and justin. savior never apologized, unlike the others who did, and instead went into hiding. then he started streaming BW to make money, and that's what makes him a scumbag, while the others we can say 'it was a lapse of judgement.'

edit: this is a sensitive issue in the BW scene, so please dont throw around arbitrary statements as if they were facts. hwasin was never punished. I had to double check just to make sure: wiki

How does streaming make him a douchebag? If you're gonna be angry at anyone it should be the viewers who give him money.

i'm pretty upset that people would give him money for streaming, but to each his own, that's not a criminal act.

Esports didn't exist in korea 15 years ago. The entire scene was pioneered from nothing by people who were truly passionate about the game. It was a little niche, a safe haven for those who legitimately loved the game, and wanted to compete/watch others compete. Savior's act of douchebaggery (ie match fixing) was the first big scandal in the scene, and it did massive damage to the still-developing BW scene. The scandal tarnished the image that the scene projects, especially to the older population in Korea, who had never been keen on if the idea of their kids getting heavily involved in video games. To the predecessors who helped and watched the scene develop, Savior is an ungrateful prick who milked the cow and tipped it over when he had gotten what he wanted. To run away without a single apology, and then come back and try to make money by streaming BW is like taking a dump on that cow. I dunno at least that's how I feel.

Of course we all make mistakes in life, small and big, but how you handle it after you make that mistake is what shows your true character. What Savior is doing can hardly be called 'owning up'. Truly disappointed as an ex-fan of his.


if at the very least, he had crawled out to apologise, if he had admitted his wrong-doings to his coach, teammates, fellow players and fans, the hate on TL wouldn't be to this extent. why do you think players like hwasin and upmagic get less hate than savior? they apologised. they realised their wrong-doings and admitted it. savior didn't. he didn't take up responsibility, and that is what makes me mad at him as a person.

and i still can't believe people actually feel that he deserves a second chance. do you think even if kespa allows it, the fans and staff (especially OGN commentators, they were incredibly upset about it, watch it here



will allow it? i would never ever want to see his face appear back on a field of profession that he personally tarnished. the innocence and image that the bw scene had, the key factor that attracted so many youngsters and adults alike, was shattered. it is being re-established, yes, and it's going fine, but if this blasphemer was to be back and go like "sup guys, nothing happened", there will be hell. there is a fine line to draw when giving second chances. it's not about money, but it's about trust and image and other intangible factors.

as a player though, that is totally another story.


Didn't he actually apologized in a letter to his former fans? I hardly remember reading a letter from him to his fans....i might be wrong though.
1# Fan of myself
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66158 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-10 10:35:22
November 10 2011 10:33 GMT
#1363
On November 10 2011 19:27 asdfVSqwert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 19:12 konadora wrote:
as someone who's followed bw esports scene in korea from quite early on, and being the most passionate savior fan ever, i say this:

savior is a scumbag as a human, because why? he's never apologised. he played the main role, he was the reason why the match-fixing started. what rotinegg says sums up exactly how i feel about savior's actions


On November 10 2011 10:28 rotinegg wrote:
On November 10 2011 09:11 mapthesoul wrote:
On November 10 2011 07:39 rotinegg wrote:
On November 10 2011 07:31 HFL wrote:
Compared to the other match fixers, Savior didn't really have a big part in it. Yes he was a broker, which in Korea some people think it's even worse than actual match fixing. The punishments that were given to Savior were not nearly as severe as the others like Hwasin's and Justin's. The whole scandal entirely brought down BW, not just Savior, he didn't play as big of a part as some people may think. Although the actions he did were still bad and probably unforgivable for most people, I think he should be given a chance to relieve his image.

justin played just as big of a role; the only two progamers that were punished were infact savior and justin. savior never apologized, unlike the others who did, and instead went into hiding. then he started streaming BW to make money, and that's what makes him a scumbag, while the others we can say 'it was a lapse of judgement.'

edit: this is a sensitive issue in the BW scene, so please dont throw around arbitrary statements as if they were facts. hwasin was never punished. I had to double check just to make sure: wiki

How does streaming make him a douchebag? If you're gonna be angry at anyone it should be the viewers who give him money.

i'm pretty upset that people would give him money for streaming, but to each his own, that's not a criminal act.

Esports didn't exist in korea 15 years ago. The entire scene was pioneered from nothing by people who were truly passionate about the game. It was a little niche, a safe haven for those who legitimately loved the game, and wanted to compete/watch others compete. Savior's act of douchebaggery (ie match fixing) was the first big scandal in the scene, and it did massive damage to the still-developing BW scene. The scandal tarnished the image that the scene projects, especially to the older population in Korea, who had never been keen on if the idea of their kids getting heavily involved in video games. To the predecessors who helped and watched the scene develop, Savior is an ungrateful prick who milked the cow and tipped it over when he had gotten what he wanted. To run away without a single apology, and then come back and try to make money by streaming BW is like taking a dump on that cow. I dunno at least that's how I feel.

Of course we all make mistakes in life, small and big, but how you handle it after you make that mistake is what shows your true character. What Savior is doing can hardly be called 'owning up'. Truly disappointed as an ex-fan of his.


if at the very least, he had crawled out to apologise, if he had admitted his wrong-doings to his coach, teammates, fellow players and fans, the hate on TL wouldn't be to this extent. why do you think players like hwasin and upmagic get less hate than savior? they apologised. they realised their wrong-doings and admitted it. savior didn't. he didn't take up responsibility, and that is what makes me mad at him as a person.

and i still can't believe people actually feel that he deserves a second chance. do you think even if kespa allows it, the fans and staff (especially OGN commentators, they were incredibly upset about it, watch it here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1htnkAiKdzU

will allow it? i would never ever want to see his face appear back on a field of profession that he personally tarnished. the innocence and image that the bw scene had, the key factor that attracted so many youngsters and adults alike, was shattered. it is being re-established, yes, and it's going fine, but if this blasphemer was to be back and go like "sup guys, nothing happened", there will be hell. there is a fine line to draw when giving second chances. it's not about money, but it's about trust and image and other intangible factors.

as a player though, that is totally another story.


Didn't he actually apologized in a letter to his former fans? I hardly remember reading a letter from him to his fans....i might be wrong though.

afaik nope
edit: i may have missed it though

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=125601

he even said this, even when everything was pointing towards him

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=129321
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=137829
POGGERS
Hier
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
2391 Posts
November 10 2011 11:05 GMT
#1364
On November 10 2011 19:33 konadora wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 19:27 asdfVSqwert wrote:
On November 10 2011 19:12 konadora wrote:
as someone who's followed bw esports scene in korea from quite early on, and being the most passionate savior fan ever, i say this:

savior is a scumbag as a human, because why? he's never apologised. he played the main role, he was the reason why the match-fixing started. what rotinegg says sums up exactly how i feel about savior's actions


On November 10 2011 10:28 rotinegg wrote:
On November 10 2011 09:11 mapthesoul wrote:
On November 10 2011 07:39 rotinegg wrote:
On November 10 2011 07:31 HFL wrote:
Compared to the other match fixers, Savior didn't really have a big part in it. Yes he was a broker, which in Korea some people think it's even worse than actual match fixing. The punishments that were given to Savior were not nearly as severe as the others like Hwasin's and Justin's. The whole scandal entirely brought down BW, not just Savior, he didn't play as big of a part as some people may think. Although the actions he did were still bad and probably unforgivable for most people, I think he should be given a chance to relieve his image.

justin played just as big of a role; the only two progamers that were punished were infact savior and justin. savior never apologized, unlike the others who did, and instead went into hiding. then he started streaming BW to make money, and that's what makes him a scumbag, while the others we can say 'it was a lapse of judgement.'

edit: this is a sensitive issue in the BW scene, so please dont throw around arbitrary statements as if they were facts. hwasin was never punished. I had to double check just to make sure: wiki

How does streaming make him a douchebag? If you're gonna be angry at anyone it should be the viewers who give him money.

i'm pretty upset that people would give him money for streaming, but to each his own, that's not a criminal act.

Esports didn't exist in korea 15 years ago. The entire scene was pioneered from nothing by people who were truly passionate about the game. It was a little niche, a safe haven for those who legitimately loved the game, and wanted to compete/watch others compete. Savior's act of douchebaggery (ie match fixing) was the first big scandal in the scene, and it did massive damage to the still-developing BW scene. The scandal tarnished the image that the scene projects, especially to the older population in Korea, who had never been keen on if the idea of their kids getting heavily involved in video games. To the predecessors who helped and watched the scene develop, Savior is an ungrateful prick who milked the cow and tipped it over when he had gotten what he wanted. To run away without a single apology, and then come back and try to make money by streaming BW is like taking a dump on that cow. I dunno at least that's how I feel.

Of course we all make mistakes in life, small and big, but how you handle it after you make that mistake is what shows your true character. What Savior is doing can hardly be called 'owning up'. Truly disappointed as an ex-fan of his.


if at the very least, he had crawled out to apologise, if he had admitted his wrong-doings to his coach, teammates, fellow players and fans, the hate on TL wouldn't be to this extent. why do you think players like hwasin and upmagic get less hate than savior? they apologised. they realised their wrong-doings and admitted it. savior didn't. he didn't take up responsibility, and that is what makes me mad at him as a person.

and i still can't believe people actually feel that he deserves a second chance. do you think even if kespa allows it, the fans and staff (especially OGN commentators, they were incredibly upset about it, watch it here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1htnkAiKdzU

will allow it? i would never ever want to see his face appear back on a field of profession that he personally tarnished. the innocence and image that the bw scene had, the key factor that attracted so many youngsters and adults alike, was shattered. it is being re-established, yes, and it's going fine, but if this blasphemer was to be back and go like "sup guys, nothing happened", there will be hell. there is a fine line to draw when giving second chances. it's not about money, but it's about trust and image and other intangible factors.

as a player though, that is totally another story.


Didn't he actually apologized in a letter to his former fans? I hardly remember reading a letter from him to his fans....i might be wrong though.

afaik nope
edit: i may have missed it though

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=125601

he even said this, even when everything was pointing towards him

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=129321
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=137829

It's right here...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=139557
"But on a more serious note..." -everyone on this forum at some point.
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66158 Posts
November 10 2011 11:10 GMT
#1365
On November 10 2011 20:05 Hier wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 19:33 konadora wrote:
On November 10 2011 19:27 asdfVSqwert wrote:
On November 10 2011 19:12 konadora wrote:
as someone who's followed bw esports scene in korea from quite early on, and being the most passionate savior fan ever, i say this:

savior is a scumbag as a human, because why? he's never apologised. he played the main role, he was the reason why the match-fixing started. what rotinegg says sums up exactly how i feel about savior's actions


On November 10 2011 10:28 rotinegg wrote:
On November 10 2011 09:11 mapthesoul wrote:
On November 10 2011 07:39 rotinegg wrote:
On November 10 2011 07:31 HFL wrote:
Compared to the other match fixers, Savior didn't really have a big part in it. Yes he was a broker, which in Korea some people think it's even worse than actual match fixing. The punishments that were given to Savior were not nearly as severe as the others like Hwasin's and Justin's. The whole scandal entirely brought down BW, not just Savior, he didn't play as big of a part as some people may think. Although the actions he did were still bad and probably unforgivable for most people, I think he should be given a chance to relieve his image.

justin played just as big of a role; the only two progamers that were punished were infact savior and justin. savior never apologized, unlike the others who did, and instead went into hiding. then he started streaming BW to make money, and that's what makes him a scumbag, while the others we can say 'it was a lapse of judgement.'

edit: this is a sensitive issue in the BW scene, so please dont throw around arbitrary statements as if they were facts. hwasin was never punished. I had to double check just to make sure: wiki

How does streaming make him a douchebag? If you're gonna be angry at anyone it should be the viewers who give him money.

i'm pretty upset that people would give him money for streaming, but to each his own, that's not a criminal act.

Esports didn't exist in korea 15 years ago. The entire scene was pioneered from nothing by people who were truly passionate about the game. It was a little niche, a safe haven for those who legitimately loved the game, and wanted to compete/watch others compete. Savior's act of douchebaggery (ie match fixing) was the first big scandal in the scene, and it did massive damage to the still-developing BW scene. The scandal tarnished the image that the scene projects, especially to the older population in Korea, who had never been keen on if the idea of their kids getting heavily involved in video games. To the predecessors who helped and watched the scene develop, Savior is an ungrateful prick who milked the cow and tipped it over when he had gotten what he wanted. To run away without a single apology, and then come back and try to make money by streaming BW is like taking a dump on that cow. I dunno at least that's how I feel.

Of course we all make mistakes in life, small and big, but how you handle it after you make that mistake is what shows your true character. What Savior is doing can hardly be called 'owning up'. Truly disappointed as an ex-fan of his.


if at the very least, he had crawled out to apologise, if he had admitted his wrong-doings to his coach, teammates, fellow players and fans, the hate on TL wouldn't be to this extent. why do you think players like hwasin and upmagic get less hate than savior? they apologised. they realised their wrong-doings and admitted it. savior didn't. he didn't take up responsibility, and that is what makes me mad at him as a person.

and i still can't believe people actually feel that he deserves a second chance. do you think even if kespa allows it, the fans and staff (especially OGN commentators, they were incredibly upset about it, watch it here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1htnkAiKdzU

will allow it? i would never ever want to see his face appear back on a field of profession that he personally tarnished. the innocence and image that the bw scene had, the key factor that attracted so many youngsters and adults alike, was shattered. it is being re-established, yes, and it's going fine, but if this blasphemer was to be back and go like "sup guys, nothing happened", there will be hell. there is a fine line to draw when giving second chances. it's not about money, but it's about trust and image and other intangible factors.

as a player though, that is totally another story.


Didn't he actually apologized in a letter to his former fans? I hardly remember reading a letter from him to his fans....i might be wrong though.

afaik nope
edit: i may have missed it though

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=125601

he even said this, even when everything was pointing towards him

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=129321
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=137829

It's right here...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=139557

okay then my bad then, somehow i missed that.

still, many people will be unhappy angry if he were to ever make an appearance in esports again.
POGGERS
CoolSea
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States236 Posts
November 10 2011 11:36 GMT
#1366
Is there even any indication he wants to get involved in esports again, or are some people just hoping and or speculating?
soujiro_
Profile Joined June 2010
Uruguay5195 Posts
November 10 2011 13:00 GMT
#1367
kiante is restreaming savior now

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Kiante
ace hwaiting!!
Nefariously
Profile Joined December 2010
277 Posts
November 10 2011 13:03 GMT
#1368
On November 10 2011 20:36 CoolSea wrote:
Is there even any indication he wants to get involved in esports again, or are some people just hoping and or speculating?

how can he if he's banned from so many events?
now ask me if i care
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42381 Posts
November 10 2011 13:08 GMT
#1369
On November 10 2011 19:23 Talin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 14:27 Grettin wrote:
On November 10 2011 13:55 konadora wrote:
On November 09 2011 22:42 Grettin wrote:
On November 09 2011 22:40 konadora wrote:
On November 09 2011 22:29 Rojam wrote:
To be fair, there are pro sc2 players, who were cheating in bw and got caught. I won't drop any names, but they've gotten a second chance as well.

what? name me some, i'm interested


I'm pretty sure he means people who map-hacked or abused something. You should know these foreign players who did so.

nah sorry.. i don't read foreign news :<

but if they are caught, why are they allowed to play again?


Hard to say. All the players i can think of who did something like this are (or were) in a pretty respectable/big team(still in SC2). So i guess they have been forgiven. But IMO what they did isn't nowhere near as bad as what Savior and co did.


Two that I know of didn't do it in tournament environment afaik, and one that did got suspended from all TL events for I believe a year?


Well tournament or not they cheated. They got "minor" penalties yes, but nothing big.
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
Tufas
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Austria2259 Posts
November 10 2011 14:48 GMT
#1370
On November 10 2011 22:00 soujiro_ wrote:
kiante is restreaming savior now

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Kiante



Is it already over ?!

Where is ma bonjwa
Where is my ACE flair
soujiro_
Profile Joined June 2010
Uruguay5195 Posts
November 10 2011 15:01 GMT
#1371
On November 10 2011 23:48 Tufas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 22:00 soujiro_ wrote:
kiante is restreaming savior now

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Kiante



Is it already over ?!

Where is ma bonjwa


http://es.twitch.tv/aafcat

is streaming the protoss (1700 fish points) who is playing vs savior
ace hwaiting!!
white_horse
Profile Joined July 2010
1019 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-10 15:12:51
November 10 2011 15:11 GMT
#1372
On November 10 2011 09:16 Arterial wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 08:47 Talent.L wrote:
On November 10 2011 06:43 CoolSea wrote:
People all seem so quick to beat down on savior because they see what he has down as terrible, immoral, disgraceful, etc. The truth is that he is no different from any of us. A lot of people seem to think that they are going to be the exact same person regardless of whatever situation they are placed in, and everybody is judging savior based on their current state of mind, whatever that may be. The truth is that nobody really knows what it was like to be in his position, nobody really knows what it feels like to have lost so much glory and admiration in such a little amount of time, knowing that at a young age you are already past your prime. I am not saying that what he did was right, but I am kind of tired of the generalizations that savior was a bad person and a good player. It's not that simple. Savior is not inherently bad, he is no different than any of us. A lot of people would have done that exact same thing that Savior would have done if they were in his position.



I fully agree with this. You cannot simply judge someone if you never put yourself in that person's shoes. You can label his action as bad and unforgivable, but you can't simply label him as an immoral cold-hearted bastard just because of this. I did a lot of horribly bad things in the past, and if the people around me treated me the same as the korean scene is treating savior, I daresay that i will not have any friends for the rest of my life. Do I regret what I did? Hell yes. But thinking back to why I did the things that I did, and putting myself in my own shoes in those past incidents, I would say 90% that I would do those things again. The point I'm trying to make is that you can't simply label someone as bad just because of one incident.

It's easy for us to judge Savior and say things like he should be put in jail and whatever. But when i put myself in his shoes i find his actions much more forgiving. He's into his 20s and sacrificed all his education and young adulthood into progaming, if I can make some money on the side, whether its match fixing or not, i would have done what he did.


I agree with this. The fact that he made a big life mistake...I understand what it's like to have done bad things in the past and it's why I love savior. We all make mistakes, big and small.


I hate it when people bring out the "it's ok to make mistakes" card. That doesn't mean anything here. Theres a very clear line between making an honest mistake and a criminal act.

I still don't understand how some people still support him. How many times do I and others have to repeat that he destroyed a very significant amount of korean BW? Does this fact not register in your brains? Everyone here is sad about the fact that MBCGame is gone and that there are only 8 teams left, which is something that savior had a direct hand in doing. Does this not register in your head?

Don't compare esports to football or baseball. Those are very established sports with lots of support and popularity. BW in Korea and other esports are still growing and they are very sensitive to outside influence.
Translator
Tufas
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Austria2259 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-10 15:18:07
November 10 2011 15:13 GMT
#1373
Or I guess it was
Damn, I did not expect to get a post that fast.

EDIT : Thats him ..
Where is my ACE flair
how2TL
Profile Joined August 2010
1197 Posts
November 10 2011 17:51 GMT
#1374
On November 09 2011 11:41 how2TL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2011 02:40 konadora wrote:
in case anyone was interested, the "ear-hacking" incident:



Please explain the context I have no idea what's going on and searching didn't help.


Can someone still explain please this I haven't received an answer yet. I'm terribly curious.
how2TL
Profile Joined August 2010
1197 Posts
November 10 2011 17:56 GMT
#1375
On November 11 2011 00:11 white_horse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 09:16 Arterial wrote:
On November 10 2011 08:47 Talent.L wrote:
On November 10 2011 06:43 CoolSea wrote:
People all seem so quick to beat down on savior because they see what he has down as terrible, immoral, disgraceful, etc. The truth is that he is no different from any of us. A lot of people seem to think that they are going to be the exact same person regardless of whatever situation they are placed in, and everybody is judging savior based on their current state of mind, whatever that may be. The truth is that nobody really knows what it was like to be in his position, nobody really knows what it feels like to have lost so much glory and admiration in such a little amount of time, knowing that at a young age you are already past your prime. I am not saying that what he did was right, but I am kind of tired of the generalizations that savior was a bad person and a good player. It's not that simple. Savior is not inherently bad, he is no different than any of us. A lot of people would have done that exact same thing that Savior would have done if they were in his position.



I fully agree with this. You cannot simply judge someone if you never put yourself in that person's shoes. You can label his action as bad and unforgivable, but you can't simply label him as an immoral cold-hearted bastard just because of this. I did a lot of horribly bad things in the past, and if the people around me treated me the same as the korean scene is treating savior, I daresay that i will not have any friends for the rest of my life. Do I regret what I did? Hell yes. But thinking back to why I did the things that I did, and putting myself in my own shoes in those past incidents, I would say 90% that I would do those things again. The point I'm trying to make is that you can't simply label someone as bad just because of one incident.

It's easy for us to judge Savior and say things like he should be put in jail and whatever. But when i put myself in his shoes i find his actions much more forgiving. He's into his 20s and sacrificed all his education and young adulthood into progaming, if I can make some money on the side, whether its match fixing or not, i would have done what he did.


I agree with this. The fact that he made a big life mistake...I understand what it's like to have done bad things in the past and it's why I love savior. We all make mistakes, big and small.


I hate it when people bring out the "it's ok to make mistakes" card. That doesn't mean anything here. Theres a very clear line between making an honest mistake and a criminal act.

I still don't understand how some people still support him. How many times do I and others have to repeat that he destroyed a very significant amount of korean BW? Does this fact not register in your brains? Everyone here is sad about the fact that MBCGame is gone and that there are only 8 teams left, which is something that savior had a direct hand in doing. Does this not register in your head?

Don't compare esports to football or baseball. Those are very established sports with lots of support and popularity. BW in Korea and other esports are still growing and they are very sensitive to outside influence.


"A clear line between making an honest mistake and a criminal act" is different than what you're suggesting in the rest of your post, which is that the consequences of his actions were so great in magnitude that his mistake is unforgivable. Your argument doesn't support your thesis. Given that Savior really did play a direct role in MSL disappearing though, I do agree that he's irredeemable in the eyes of the public.
Romantic
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1844 Posts
November 10 2011 23:00 GMT
#1376
What time has Savior been playing? Never get tired of watching his first person view.
esla_sol
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States756 Posts
November 10 2011 23:25 GMT
#1377
it's rather silly to blame savior for the decline in popularity of brood war. im not sure what argument you could make linking the two together.
Yakota
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia112 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-10 23:36:08
November 10 2011 23:31 GMT
#1378
On November 11 2011 00:11 white_horse wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2011 09:16 Arterial wrote:
On November 10 2011 08:47 Talent.L wrote:
On November 10 2011 06:43 CoolSea wrote:
People all seem so quick to beat down on savior because they see what he has down as terrible, immoral, disgraceful, etc. The truth is that he is no different from any of us. A lot of people seem to think that they are going to be the exact same person regardless of whatever situation they are placed in, and everybody is judging savior based on their current state of mind, whatever that may be. The truth is that nobody really knows what it was like to be in his position, nobody really knows what it feels like to have lost so much glory and admiration in such a little amount of time, knowing that at a young age you are already past your prime. I am not saying that what he did was right, but I am kind of tired of the generalizations that savior was a bad person and a good player. It's not that simple. Savior is not inherently bad, he is no different than any of us. A lot of people would have done that exact same thing that Savior would have done if they were in his position.



I fully agree with this. You cannot simply judge someone if you never put yourself in that person's shoes. You can label his action as bad and unforgivable, but you can't simply label him as an immoral cold-hearted bastard just because of this. I did a lot of horribly bad things in the past, and if the people around me treated me the same as the korean scene is treating savior, I daresay that i will not have any friends for the rest of my life. Do I regret what I did? Hell yes. But thinking back to why I did the things that I did, and putting myself in my own shoes in those past incidents, I would say 90% that I would do those things again. The point I'm trying to make is that you can't simply label someone as bad just because of one incident.

It's easy for us to judge Savior and say things like he should be put in jail and whatever. But when i put myself in his shoes i find his actions much more forgiving. He's into his 20s and sacrificed all his education and young adulthood into progaming, if I can make some money on the side, whether its match fixing or not, i would have done what he did.


I agree with this. The fact that he made a big life mistake...I understand what it's like to have done bad things in the past and it's why I love savior. We all make mistakes, big and small.


I hate it when people bring out the "it's ok to make mistakes" card. That doesn't mean anything here.

I still don't understand how some people still support him. How many times do I and others have to repeat that he destroyed a very significant amount of korean BW?



Some people can forgive, some people cant.

Some people think its a big crime. Some people dont.

Doesnt matter how many time you have to repeat yourself, you wont change other peoples way of thinking much like they wont change yours.
Vain
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Netherlands1115 Posts
November 10 2011 23:44 GMT
#1379
On November 11 2011 02:51 how2TL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2011 11:41 how2TL wrote:
On November 09 2011 02:40 konadora wrote:
in case anyone was interested, the "ear-hacking" incident:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oacwmzgexrI#t=4m10s


Please explain the context I have no idea what's going on and searching didn't help.


Can someone still explain please this I haven't received an answer yet. I'm terribly curious.


Oh he could hear the audience

was stated somewhere in the thread
Battle.net 2.0 is a waiter and he's a dick
AnachronisticAnarchy
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States2957 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-11 00:01:35
November 11 2011 00:00 GMT
#1380
Savior's life kinda sucks at this point it would seem. He is still capable of great good, though, and I would love to see him come back and do that great good. Too bad it will never happen and he will probably continue to live in his horrible life, remembered only as a blight on Esports as he slowly loses the ability to walk due to his osteochondritis dissecans. At least, once upon a time, he had a chance.
"How are you?" "I am fine, because it is not normal to scream in pain."
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