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On November 10 2011 04:14 JiPrime wrote:마빡이새키덜 여기서도 설치냐 ㅅㅂ /rage I've said this before and I'll say it again. You are talking about wishing to let a scoundrel -who single-handedly almost killed the successful BW E-sports scene with his insatiable desire for luxury items- to ruin another healthy growing SC2 E-sports scene. This is the person the cemented the stupid idea that video games are nothing but harmful to the Korean society, especially among the older people who were starting to accept it as it is: a healthy competition with honor and pride. Remember this? ![[image loading]](http://cfile27.uf.tistory.com/image/155A57284BF00CD0E8D952) I shed many tears when I saw this. P.S. And Ivan Basso didn't cause THIS much harm to the sports he played in, even with his level of faggotry.
Do you ever get tired of trolling the BW forums?
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United States1719 Posts
On November 10 2011 04:58 Ancestral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 04:14 JiPrime wrote:마빡이새키덜 여기서도 설치냐 ㅅㅂ /rage I've said this before and I'll say it again. You are talking about wishing to let a scoundrel -who single-handedly almost killed the successful BW E-sports scene with his insatiable desire for luxury items- to ruin another healthy growing SC2 E-sports scene. This is the person the cemented the stupid idea that video games are nothing but harmful to the Korean society, especially among the older people who were starting to accept it as it is: a healthy competition with honor and pride. Remember this? I shed many tears when I saw this. P.S. And Ivan Basso didn't cause THIS much harm to the sports he played in, even with his level of faggotry. I won't argue Savior et. al. tarnished the image. But do say he "almost single-handedly killed the successful BW E-sports scene" is ridiculous. It was already on the decline, already being downsized. Bad world economy, a commercially successful sequel (I know it hasn't been a runaway success in Korea), and the fact that it's getting old. And I am squarely on the side of BW. Just being a realist, not an emotional zealot who thinks the scene would be thriving without the scandal.
perhaps you are right, maybe BW was already on the decline before this happened. but he did single-handedly harm the BW scene in an unprecedented way. No other gamer had pissed on what their predecessors had built from scratch so vehemently. you could compare the effects of matchfixing to what FBH's hip thrusting did to savior's career :p
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No one is ''inherently bad'', but I do judge people based on their actions, and Savior's actions are not defendable.
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Compared to the other match fixers, Savior didn't really have a big part in it. Yes he was a broker, which in Korea some people think it's even worse than actual match fixing. The punishments that were given to Savior were not nearly as severe as the others like Hwasin's and Justin's. The whole scandal entirely brought down BW, not just Savior, he didn't play as big of a part as some people may think. Although the actions he did were still bad and probably unforgivable for most people, I think he should be given a chance to relieve his image.
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United States1719 Posts
On November 10 2011 07:31 HFL wrote:
Compared to the other match fixers, Savior didn't really have a big part in it. Yes he was a broker, which in Korea some people think it's even worse than actual match fixing. The punishments that were given to Savior were not nearly as severe as the others like Hwasin's and Justin's. The whole scandal entirely brought down BW, not just Savior, he didn't play as big of a part as some people may think. Although the actions he did were still bad and probably unforgivable for most people, I think he should be given a chance to relieve his image.
justin played just as big of a role; the only two progamers that were punished were infact savior and justin. savior never apologized, unlike the others who did, and instead went into hiding. then he started streaming BW to make money, and that's what makes him a scumbag, while the others we can say 'it was a lapse of judgement.'
edit: this is a sensitive issue in the BW scene, so please dont throw around arbitrary statements as if they were facts. hwasin was never punished. I had to double check just to make sure: wiki
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On November 10 2011 04:58 Ancestral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 04:14 JiPrime wrote:마빡이새키덜 여기서도 설치냐 ㅅㅂ /rage I've said this before and I'll say it again. You are talking about wishing to let a scoundrel -who single-handedly almost killed the successful BW E-sports scene with his insatiable desire for luxury items- to ruin another healthy growing SC2 E-sports scene. This is the person the cemented the stupid idea that video games are nothing but harmful to the Korean society, especially among the older people who were starting to accept it as it is: a healthy competition with honor and pride. Remember this? I shed many tears when I saw this. P.S. And Ivan Basso didn't cause THIS much harm to the sports he played in, even with his level of faggotry. I won't argue Savior et. al. tarnished the image. But do say he "almost single-handedly killed the successful BW E-sports scene" is ridiculous. It was already on the decline, already being downsized. Bad world economy, a commercially successful sequel (I know it hasn't been a runaway success in Korea), and the fact that it's getting old. And I am squarely on the side of BW. Just being a realist, not an emotional zealot who thinks the scene would be thriving without the scandal.
The fact that he was the one the most popular bonjwa of all time made the damage worst to the point it can't be recovered.
And you can't deny that he accelerated the process of the scene dying. I'm not blaming on Maregi for the lackluster success of SC2 in Korea, btw.
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On November 10 2011 07:31 HFL wrote:
Compared to the other match fixers, Savior didn't really have a big part in it. Yes he was a broker, which in Korea some people think it's even worse than actual match fixing. The punishments that were given to Savior were not nearly as severe as the others like Hwasin's and Justin's. The whole scandal entirely brought down BW, not just Savior, he didn't play as big of a part as some people may think. Although the actions he did were still bad and probably unforgivable for most people, I think he should be given a chance to relieve his image.
Who's your all-time favorite player? Who's your hero?
If he/she was involved in something similar, would it help if there were others as well?
When you follow someone as closely as many followed Savior, you begin to idolize and build expectations. When those expectations are crushed, you take it personally.
I'm sure Hwasin and Justin crushed some people too, but Savior is betrayal on a whole other level. He was the esports savior who became the esports destroyer. For some that's not only hard to forget but also almost impossible to forgive.
I'd personally like to see him back in some shape or form (streaming seemed like a good media, people like controversial personalities on streams) but i speak for a minority here.
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one of the best highlights ive seen ...
such a sexy clone splitting 
<3 saviOr
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On November 10 2011 07:39 rotinegg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 07:31 HFL wrote:
Compared to the other match fixers, Savior didn't really have a big part in it. Yes he was a broker, which in Korea some people think it's even worse than actual match fixing. The punishments that were given to Savior were not nearly as severe as the others like Hwasin's and Justin's. The whole scandal entirely brought down BW, not just Savior, he didn't play as big of a part as some people may think. Although the actions he did were still bad and probably unforgivable for most people, I think he should be given a chance to relieve his image. justin played just as big of a role; the only two progamers that were punished were infact savior and justin. savior never apologized, unlike the others who did, and instead went into hiding. then he started streaming BW to make money, and that's what makes him a scumbag, while the others we can say 'it was a lapse of judgement.' edit: this is a sensitive issue in the BW scene, so please dont throw around arbitrary statements as if they were facts. hwasin was never punished. I had to double check just to make sure: wiki
Justin and Savior got punishments and sentencing, Hwasin and the other progamers got huge fines, which IMO still counts as punishments. If Savior never apologized and streamed for the sole purpose of making money while in 'hiding', then that changes my thoughts.
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On November 10 2011 07:54 HFL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 07:39 rotinegg wrote:On November 10 2011 07:31 HFL wrote:
Compared to the other match fixers, Savior didn't really have a big part in it. Yes he was a broker, which in Korea some people think it's even worse than actual match fixing. The punishments that were given to Savior were not nearly as severe as the others like Hwasin's and Justin's. The whole scandal entirely brought down BW, not just Savior, he didn't play as big of a part as some people may think. Although the actions he did were still bad and probably unforgivable for most people, I think he should be given a chance to relieve his image. justin played just as big of a role; the only two progamers that were punished were infact savior and justin. savior never apologized, unlike the others who did, and instead went into hiding. then he started streaming BW to make money, and that's what makes him a scumbag, while the others we can say 'it was a lapse of judgement.' edit: this is a sensitive issue in the BW scene, so please dont throw around arbitrary statements as if they were facts. hwasin was never punished. I had to double check just to make sure: wiki Justin and Savior got punishments and sentencing, Hwasin and the other progamers got huge fines, which IMO still counts as punishments. If Savior never apologized and streamed for the sole purpose of making money while in 'hiding', then that changes my thoughts.
Which is pretty much what he is doing right now.
He probably ran out of money to buy luxury products.
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Osaka27174 Posts
Just to be clear, I was obviously joking about Liquid`Savior.
But I do think that many tournaments not so well versed in history would welcome him if he had good ladder results / they needed publicity. Maybe not the biggest tournaments, but for a mid-level tournament, can you imagine the ratings bump? And say he wins the tournament, then he has legitimacy as a good player, and things snowball from there.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Kvsxf.jpg)
For all the Savior fanboys and those who want to become one.
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On November 10 2011 08:14 Manifesto7 wrote:
Just to be clear, I was obviously joking about Liquid`Savior.
But I do think that many tournaments not so well versed in history would welcome him if he had good ladder results / they needed publicity. Maybe not the biggest tournaments, but for a mid-level tournament, can you imagine the ratings bump? And say he wins the tournament, then he has legitimacy as a good player, and things snowball from there.
Yeah I/we know you were joking  Coulda picked a better team for him to have been with though!
(something suitable like EGsavior =O )
Hell, I'd donate to savior if he started SC2ing.
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On November 10 2011 06:43 CoolSea wrote:
People all seem so quick to beat down on savior because they see what he has down as terrible, immoral, disgraceful, etc. The truth is that he is no different from any of us. A lot of people seem to think that they are going to be the exact same person regardless of whatever situation they are placed in, and everybody is judging savior based on their current state of mind, whatever that may be. The truth is that nobody really knows what it was like to be in his position, nobody really knows what it feels like to have lost so much glory and admiration in such a little amount of time, knowing that at a young age you are already past your prime. I am not saying that what he did was right, but I am kind of tired of the generalizations that savior was a bad person and a good player. It's not that simple. Savior is not inherently bad, he is no different than any of us. A lot of people would have done that exact same thing that Savior would have done if they were in his position.
I fully agree with this. You cannot simply judge someone if you never put yourself in that person's shoes. You can label his action as bad and unforgivable, but you can't simply label him as an immoral cold-hearted bastard just because of this. I did a lot of horribly bad things in the past, and if the people around me treated me the same as the korean scene is treating savior, I daresay that i will not have any friends for the rest of my life. Do I regret what I did? Hell yes. But thinking back to why I did the things that I did, and putting myself in my own shoes in those past incidents, I would say 90% that I would do those things again. The point I'm trying to make is that you can't simply label someone as bad just because of one incident.
It's easy for us to judge Savior and say things like he should be put in jail and whatever. But when i put myself in his shoes i find his actions much more forgiving. He's into his 20s and sacrificed all his education and young adulthood into progaming, if I can make some money on the side, whether its match fixing or not, i would have done what he did.
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claiming savior "single-handedly" "almost" "killed e-sport" is pathetic. He did it for himself. E-sport falling or not is up to E-sport. It's like claiming any scammer "single-handedly almost killed the internet" or any stealer "single-handedly killed humanity".
People are stupid as always.
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On November 10 2011 07:39 rotinegg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 07:31 HFL wrote:
Compared to the other match fixers, Savior didn't really have a big part in it. Yes he was a broker, which in Korea some people think it's even worse than actual match fixing. The punishments that were given to Savior were not nearly as severe as the others like Hwasin's and Justin's. The whole scandal entirely brought down BW, not just Savior, he didn't play as big of a part as some people may think. Although the actions he did were still bad and probably unforgivable for most people, I think he should be given a chance to relieve his image. justin played just as big of a role; the only two progamers that were punished were infact savior and justin. savior never apologized, unlike the others who did, and instead went into hiding. then he started streaming BW to make money, and that's what makes him a scumbag, while the others we can say 'it was a lapse of judgement.' edit: this is a sensitive issue in the BW scene, so please dont throw around arbitrary statements as if they were facts. hwasin was never punished. I had to double check just to make sure: wiki
How does streaming make him a douchebag? If you're gonna be angry at anyone it should be the viewers who give him money.
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On November 10 2011 08:47 Talent.L wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 06:43 CoolSea wrote:
People all seem so quick to beat down on savior because they see what he has down as terrible, immoral, disgraceful, etc. The truth is that he is no different from any of us. A lot of people seem to think that they are going to be the exact same person regardless of whatever situation they are placed in, and everybody is judging savior based on their current state of mind, whatever that may be. The truth is that nobody really knows what it was like to be in his position, nobody really knows what it feels like to have lost so much glory and admiration in such a little amount of time, knowing that at a young age you are already past your prime. I am not saying that what he did was right, but I am kind of tired of the generalizations that savior was a bad person and a good player. It's not that simple. Savior is not inherently bad, he is no different than any of us. A lot of people would have done that exact same thing that Savior would have done if they were in his position. I fully agree with this. You cannot simply judge someone if you never put yourself in that person's shoes. You can label his action as bad and unforgivable, but you can't simply label him as an immoral cold-hearted bastard just because of this. I did a lot of horribly bad things in the past, and if the people around me treated me the same as the korean scene is treating savior, I daresay that i will not have any friends for the rest of my life. Do I regret what I did? Hell yes. But thinking back to why I did the things that I did, and putting myself in my own shoes in those past incidents, I would say 90% that I would do those things again. The point I'm trying to make is that you can't simply label someone as bad just because of one incident. It's easy for us to judge Savior and say things like he should be put in jail and whatever. But when i put myself in his shoes i find his actions much more forgiving. He's into his 20s and sacrificed all his education and young adulthood into progaming, if I can make some money on the side, whether its match fixing or not, i would have done what he did.
I agree with this. The fact that he made a big life mistake...I understand what it's like to have done bad things in the past and it's why I love savior. We all make mistakes, big and small.
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Well, its kind of a rude selfish request, but this video is copyright protected in my country. Problem is, i really want to see it badly..
If someone would find the time to upload this elsewhere that would be amazing
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United States1719 Posts
On November 10 2011 09:11 mapthesoul wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 07:39 rotinegg wrote:On November 10 2011 07:31 HFL wrote:
Compared to the other match fixers, Savior didn't really have a big part in it. Yes he was a broker, which in Korea some people think it's even worse than actual match fixing. The punishments that were given to Savior were not nearly as severe as the others like Hwasin's and Justin's. The whole scandal entirely brought down BW, not just Savior, he didn't play as big of a part as some people may think. Although the actions he did were still bad and probably unforgivable for most people, I think he should be given a chance to relieve his image. justin played just as big of a role; the only two progamers that were punished were infact savior and justin. savior never apologized, unlike the others who did, and instead went into hiding. then he started streaming BW to make money, and that's what makes him a scumbag, while the others we can say 'it was a lapse of judgement.' edit: this is a sensitive issue in the BW scene, so please dont throw around arbitrary statements as if they were facts. hwasin was never punished. I had to double check just to make sure: wiki How does streaming make him a douchebag? If you're gonna be angry at anyone it should be the viewers who give him money.
i'm pretty upset that people would give him money for streaming, but to each his own, that's not a criminal act.
Esports didn't exist in korea 15 years ago. The entire scene was pioneered from nothing by people who were truly passionate about the game. It was a little niche, a safe haven for those who legitimately loved the game, and wanted to compete/watch others compete. Savior's act of douchebaggery (ie match fixing) was the first big scandal in the scene, and it did massive damage to the still-developing BW scene. The scandal tarnished the image that the scene projects, especially to the older population in Korea, who had never been keen on the idea of their kids getting heavily involved in video games. To the predecessors who helped and watched the scene develop, Savior is an ungrateful prick who milked the cow and tipped it over when he had gotten what he wanted. To run away without a single apology, and then come back and try to make money by streaming BW is like taking a dump on that cow. I dunno at least that's how I feel.
Of course we all make mistakes in life, small and big, but how you handle it after you make that mistake is what shows your true character. What Savior is doing can hardly be called 'owning up'. Truly disappointed as an ex-fan of his.
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epic hype vid, hope he keeps streaming ^-^
the zvz at the end was awesome
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EPT
