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On August 26 2011 19:26 EunhaK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 19:16 zeehar wrote:On August 26 2011 18:17 EunhaK wrote:
Savior is the only literal and true bw legend. Somehow his stupid action made him something else than the nerdy tv gimmick broadcast stations make progamer to be. And i'm glad for that ! this doesn't even make sense, and if you think of in it this way, i don't know how you've been watching bw/sc2 over the past few years. you talk about "korea's dark side," well: 1. savior was a part of it with his actions. he facilitated the entry of your so called "dark side" people into the esports scene. 2. what does whoring have to do with esports? with savior? and whoring doesn't exist in france? you don't have any redlight districts in paris? what makes you so sure that the fixing scandal was global? "savior is the only literal and true bw legend" get the fuck out of TL. haha i doubt france whore number reaches the 250 000 of korea. dude, dirty money is everywhere in korea. isn't hyundae owned by like the biggest gang family over there ? what i mean, is that match fixing seems to really fit in the picture oh and don't order me around
oh god, a person who hasnt lived in korea pretending to know all about korea.
250000? where did you pull that figure out from? oh and, prostitution is "illegal" in korea, too.
look, corruption in sports is EVERYWHERE. L'OM were in a corruption scandal in the mid nineties. repeated doping at the tour de france... france isn't squeaky clean either.
and i although i agree that the chaebols such as hyundai are too powerful for their own good, they certainly are not run by a "gang family."
seriously, where you get this info from, i have no idea..
but what i still don't understand is... prostitution = dead society? why are you so attached to this idea?
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On August 26 2011 19:39 zeehar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 19:26 EunhaK wrote:On August 26 2011 19:16 zeehar wrote:On August 26 2011 18:17 EunhaK wrote:
Savior is the only literal and true bw legend. Somehow his stupid action made him something else than the nerdy tv gimmick broadcast stations make progamer to be. And i'm glad for that ! this doesn't even make sense, and if you think of in it this way, i don't know how you've been watching bw/sc2 over the past few years. you talk about "korea's dark side," well: 1. savior was a part of it with his actions. he facilitated the entry of your so called "dark side" people into the esports scene. 2. what does whoring have to do with esports? with savior? and whoring doesn't exist in france? you don't have any redlight districts in paris? what makes you so sure that the fixing scandal was global? "savior is the only literal and true bw legend" get the fuck out of TL. haha i doubt france whore number reaches the 250 000 of korea. dude, dirty money is everywhere in korea. isn't hyundae owned by like the biggest gang family over there ? what i mean, is that match fixing seems to really fit in the picture oh and don't order me around oh god, a person who hasnt lived in korea pretending to know all about korea. 250000? where did you pull that figure out from? look, corruption in sports is EVERYWHERE. L'OM were in a corruption scandal in the mid nineties. repeated doping at the tour de france... france isn't squeaky clean either. and i although i agree that the chaebols such as hyundai are too powerful for their own good, they certainly are not run by a "gang family." seriously, where you get this info from, i have no idea..
oh maybe not that long but heh i lived there
i got these kind of infos from the people actually running those places !
maybe you never been there ?
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On August 26 2011 19:41 EunhaK wrote:
oh maybe not that long but heh i lived there
i got these kind of infos from the people actually running those places !
maybe you never been there ?
ten years and counting... and i was born here. ugh.
anyway, i agree with you that there is a malaise in this society that is disheartening. you shouldn't be defending someone who dragged the esports scene down into the shady shithole that is the korean underworld. that's all. i apologise for the last line in the first post. i don't apologise for saying you're an idiot if you think savior is the only true legend of bw...
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On August 26 2011 19:42 zeehar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 19:41 EunhaK wrote:
oh maybe not that long but heh i lived there
i got these kind of infos from the people actually running those places !
maybe you never been there ? ten years and counting...
*
i didnt mean korea, I meant whorehouses.
well im off.
edit : lol thats the first time ever i meet someone trying to argue there's no prostitution problem in korea haha
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On August 26 2011 19:43 EunhaK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 19:42 zeehar wrote:On August 26 2011 19:41 EunhaK wrote:
oh maybe not that long but heh i lived there
i got these kind of infos from the people actually running those places !
maybe you never been there ? ten years and counting... * i didnt mean korea, I meant whorehouses. well im off. edit : lol thats the first time ever i meet someone trying to argue there's no prostitution problem in korea haha
when did i argue that there's no prostitution problem in korea? try quote me.
edit: and because i've never been to a whorehouse, i guess i'm the weird one. yay!
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Damn those tweets zeehar translated. :/
Thanks btw.
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it's not harsh at all, Savior was the ring leader, he masterminded a move that destroyed the purity of Esports Starcraft scene.
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On August 26 2011 16:54 hellbound wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 16:14 Kalent wrote:On August 26 2011 16:00 alffla wrote:On August 26 2011 13:13 Kalent wrote:On August 26 2011 12:19 alffla wrote:
lol those korean tweets are pretty harsh imo.. can't even play and stream a game online without getting flak, wtf? He put the jobs of those people at risk. If someone suddenly threatened your job and source of income, how would you feel? yea i can understand why they hate him. but for streaming himself playing a game online? He's using his past fame earned from the BW scene, which he betrayed, to gain money. To be honest I watched his stream because of his ability, not his fame.
There's nothing special about his ability anymore, he's barely a B-teamer level. Yes, he beat some A-Teamers but nobody of note, and they weren't taking it seriously anyways.
Adding on to how he betrayed the trust of his coach, here's an excerpt from an interview of the former CJ Entus Coach, Coach Cho
믿어야죠. 또 믿기로 했고,
빈말이 아니라 잘하는 선수입니다.
실제로도 잘하니 만큼 꼭 좋은 모습을 보일겁니다."
"재윤이는 지더라도 계속 경기에 출전시킬겁니다.
CJ라는 팀의 아이콘이고 저는 재윤이를 믿으니까요.
원래 잘하는 아이이고 지금도 잘하기때문에 믿습니다."
-CJ엔투스 조규남감독 인터뷰中
Translation:
"I should trust him, and I have decided to trust him.
It's not an empty saying, he truly is a great player.
He is actually good, so he will keep showing good results."
"Even if Savior loses I will keep sending him out to games.
He is to icon of CJ and I trust him.
He has always been good and he is still good so I trust him."
Coach Cho's love and trust for Savior has been famous for a while, and when the match fixing scandal first came up, Savior denied his crimes. And when he did, the team and Coach Cho supported him, repeatedly making statements about how there was no way Savior would take part on this.
Additionally, when transferring money while brokering, Savior made derogatory comments about his team according to a witness. It's the team that grew him and supported him. Savior joined the team in 2003 (Formerly named GO), and back then, they didn't have any sponsors. Coach Cho used his own personal money to feed the kids, give them a place to sleep and provide them with a practicing environment. Without this team, Savior would not have been able to accomplish the things he had. Yet he found it in his right to make derogatory comments about his team. Asshole much?
And there is concrete proof that he got others into match-fixing. In Hwasin's testimony, Savior approached Hwasin saying that a person he knows is betting on matches and that he (Savior) is deciding if he should do it or not. Then Savior asked Hwasin if he had an upcoming match, which he did in an OSL. Savior then asked him to lose the match on purpose and the person he knows will bet against Hwasin, and with the winnings he paid Hwsin $3000. Later on, Savior contacted Hwasin about his match against Luxury saying that Luxury will lose on purpose. So he brokered several matches, and got others into his crime, which IMO, is worse than match fixing itself. He didn't just make a mistake on a whim, he planned it carefully and committed a crime.
And you know what excuse he made for denying his crimes? He said he didn't know that brokering match fixing was a criminal act. Bullshit?
Perhaps if Savior had come clean the first time, people would be less resentful of him, but he didn't. He denied it and lied, to his team, his coach, his fans and to the law. Just goes to show what a low-life he is. he doesn't deserve this attention
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On August 27 2011 05:15 Kalent wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 16:54 hellbound wrote:On August 26 2011 16:14 Kalent wrote:On August 26 2011 16:00 alffla wrote:On August 26 2011 13:13 Kalent wrote:On August 26 2011 12:19 alffla wrote:
lol those korean tweets are pretty harsh imo.. can't even play and stream a game online without getting flak, wtf? He put the jobs of those people at risk. If someone suddenly threatened your job and source of income, how would you feel? yea i can understand why they hate him. but for streaming himself playing a game online? He's using his past fame earned from the BW scene, which he betrayed, to gain money. To be honest I watched his stream because of his ability, not his fame. There's nothing special about his ability anymore, he's barely a B-teamer level. Yes, he beat some A-Teamers but nobody of note, and they weren't taking it seriously anyways. Adding on to how he betrayed the trust of his coach, here's an excerpt from an interview of the former CJ Entus Coach, Coach Cho Show nested quote +믿어야죠. 또 믿기로 했고,
빈말이 아니라 잘하는 선수입니다.
실제로도 잘하니 만큼 꼭 좋은 모습을 보일겁니다."
"재윤이는 지더라도 계속 경기에 출전시킬겁니다.
CJ라는 팀의 아이콘이고 저는 재윤이를 믿으니까요.
원래 잘하는 아이이고 지금도 잘하기때문에 믿습니다."
-CJ엔투스 조규남감독 인터뷰中 Translation: "I should trust him, and I have decided to trust him. It's not an empty saying, he truly is a great player. He is actually good, so he will keep showing good results." "Even if Savior loses I will keep sending him out to games. He is to icon of CJ and I trust him. He has always been good and he is still good so I trust him." Coach Cho's love and trust for Savior has been famous for a while, and when the match fixing scandal first came up, Savior denied his crimes. And when he did, the team and Coach Cho supported him, repeatedly making statements about how there was no way Savior would take part on this. Additionally, when transferring money while brokering, Savior made derogatory comments about his team according to a witness. It's the team that grew him and supported him. Savior joined the team in 2003 (Formerly named GO), and back then, they didn't have any sponsors. Coach Cho used his own personal money to feed the kids, give them a place to sleep and provide them with a practicing environment. Without this team, Savior would not have been able to accomplish the things he had. Yet he found it in his right to make derogatory comments about his team. Asshole much? And there is concrete proof that he got others into match-fixing. In Hwasin's testimony, Savior approached Hwasin saying that a person he knows is betting on matches and that he (Savior) is deciding if he should do it or not. Then Savior asked Hwasin if he had an upcoming match, which he did in an OSL. Savior then asked him to lose the match on purpose and the person he knows will bet against Hwasin, and with the winnings he paid Hwsin $3000. Later on, Savior contacted Hwasin about his match against Luxury saying that Luxury will lose on purpose. So he brokered several matches, and got others into his crime, which IMO, is worse than match fixing itself. He didn't just make a mistake on a whim, he planned it carefully and committed a crime. And you know what excuse he made for denying his crimes? He said he didn't know that brokering match fixing was a criminal act. Bullshit? Perhaps if Savior had come clean the first time, people would be less resentful of him, but he didn't. He denied it and lied, to his team, his coach, his fans and to the law. Just goes to show what a low-life he is. he doesn't deserve this attention
Okay, so if you were accused of this, would you immediately break down and be like, "Yeah! Cart me off to jail," the moment you were accused? Get off of your high horse; denying what you've done is almost categorically human.
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On August 26 2011 19:15 zeehar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 17:46 tyCe wrote:
Ah, Korean BW notable figures. Why do you have so much class? I would hate to live in a society this unforgiving. No wonder plastic surgery is so prevalent when people judge so adamantly and so quickly. It seems that there can't be any hero stories in such a society as redemption is impossible to these people. redemption? redemption is for people who acknowledge their mistakes and wrongdoings, lead a life that is expected of them and then regain the trust and approval of those who cast him out in the first place. slowly. classily. humbly. streaming on afreeca and trying to leech off his past fame is not a road to redemption.
You could make the same criticism of everything he or anybody does. Say he got a new job from his friend, well that's not fair, or maybe someone hires him based on knowing who he is. There are at the same time other people who would reject him based on who he is. Kicking him out of progaming doesn't take away his past. It doesn't erase his ups or his downs.
Suppose he streamed on Afreeca without telling anyone who he is or using Mysticism, then someone realizes hey this is MJY. Then the criticism is: MJY, why were you streaming incognito? He can either accept his mistakes or run from them. I don't think running is the thing a man should do. If your objection is why was he streaming at all, well, who cares? It's Afreeca, not the Proleague, what do you care what he does with his time? Does one decision from a couple of fellow humans from KeSPA and the prosecutor's office carry so much weight that you think it should seep into every corner of his life? Suppose he streamed himself singing and people watched after they remembered that episode of him in the OGN van. He's not leeching on anyone in e-sports anymore. That's why he was ostracized, so he couldn't spread any more shit around. If Afreeca had anything to do with pro BW, we would have streams of everyone in the SKT house. It's just none of our business or of anyone in pro BW who wants to get a little more attention by slamming him. My hat is off to him that he doesn't let it get to him.
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Small bump guys, but I was trying to change my google home page background and I typed "ma jae yoon" and I got this picture:
![[image loading]](https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-YtCaG1GTFTg/StOnQCTEmnI/AAAAAAAAD64/9BcEWAVXab0/s800/IMG_2603.jpg)
thoughts?
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On September 12 2011 09:17 Arterial wrote:Small bump guys, but I was trying to change my google home page background and I typed "ma jae yoon" and I got this picture: + Show Spoiler +thoughts?
Looks vaguely like the Alpha build for SC2.
I think there are several videos of Savior messing around in the SC2 Alpha from back when he was at a BIzzcon or a Blizzard Invitational. In fact, there are quite a few videos floating around of BW progamers messing around in the SC2 Alpha.
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On August 26 2011 19:41 EunhaK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 19:39 zeehar wrote:On August 26 2011 19:26 EunhaK wrote:On August 26 2011 19:16 zeehar wrote:On August 26 2011 18:17 EunhaK wrote:
Savior is the only literal and true bw legend. Somehow his stupid action made him something else than the nerdy tv gimmick broadcast stations make progamer to be. And i'm glad for that ! this doesn't even make sense, and if you think of in it this way, i don't know how you've been watching bw/sc2 over the past few years. you talk about "korea's dark side," well: 1. savior was a part of it with his actions. he facilitated the entry of your so called "dark side" people into the esports scene. 2. what does whoring have to do with esports? with savior? and whoring doesn't exist in france? you don't have any redlight districts in paris? what makes you so sure that the fixing scandal was global? "savior is the only literal and true bw legend" get the fuck out of TL. haha i doubt france whore number reaches the 250 000 of korea. dude, dirty money is everywhere in korea. isn't hyundae owned by like the biggest gang family over there ? what i mean, is that match fixing seems to really fit in the picture oh and don't order me around oh god, a person who hasnt lived in korea pretending to know all about korea. 250000? where did you pull that figure out from? look, corruption in sports is EVERYWHERE. L'OM were in a corruption scandal in the mid nineties. repeated doping at the tour de france... france isn't squeaky clean either. and i although i agree that the chaebols such as hyundai are too powerful for their own good, they certainly are not run by a "gang family." seriously, where you get this info from, i have no idea.. oh maybe not that long but heh i lived there i got these kind of infos from the people actually running those places ! maybe you never been there ?
You talk as if there are no other major countries in the world that have whorehouses. Obviously Korea has a slew of social problems but the examples you're giving really don't say much, as every other major nation shares the same problems. You seem extremely naive.
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 12 2011 09:17 Arterial wrote:Small bump guys, but I was trying to change my google home page background and I typed "ma jae yoon" and I got this picture: thoughts?
cept the blackwidow keyboard wasn't out in alpha............
Edit: Thx I didn't know the Lycosa looked so similar.
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Pretty sure he's playing against Artosis and that pic is from the last blizzcon he attended.
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Probably just him messing around in the beta or alpha. And, also, that keyboard isn't the blackwidow, its the lycosa which has been out for some time now. Hes pretty much banned from any type of competitive gaming in Korea anyways so...
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old version of sc2, just llook at the probe picture
+ no ranking on the unit
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^
Personally something I've wondered because i love savior heaps...couldn't he move outside of Korea and join a pro team somewhere else?
I think it's been discussed in this thread already, that no teams would want him?
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On August 26 2011 19:43 EunhaK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 19:42 zeehar wrote:On August 26 2011 19:41 EunhaK wrote:
oh maybe not that long but heh i lived there
i got these kind of infos from the people actually running those places !
maybe you never been there ? ten years and counting... * i didnt mean korea, I meant whorehouses. well im off. edit : lol thats the first time ever i meet someone trying to argue there's no prostitution problem in korea haha
In australia prostitution is legal, I don't think it means a dead society at all. Also its a definite stereotype that Asian businessmen like or expect prostitutes when making deals (there was even a scandal about it in the news), so it wouldn't surprise me if there were a lot of prostitutes in SK. Doesn't mean the society is dead though.
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EPT
