EPTEven though he is a criminal, doesn't he deserve a second chance? I mean, he made a great influence upon the korean SC scene and many of the players within it. Even today, we discuss and use his builds within the game, improving what he first started. A player of his caliber shouldn't be held down... didn't he make a lot of money even without fixing matches?
Savior plays BW games on Afreeca - Page 21
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Flameling
United States413 Posts
Even though he is a criminal, doesn't he deserve a second chance? I mean, he made a great influence upon the korean SC scene and many of the players within it. Even today, we discuss and use his builds within the game, improving what he first started. A player of his caliber shouldn't be held down... didn't he make a lot of money even without fixing matches? | ||
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diehilde
Germany1596 Posts
On May 26 2011 08:19 tree.hugger wrote: Yeah it'd be great to see sAviOr back and great if none of that ever happened. But sAviOr is a criminal. He committed fraud, betrayed his fans, his teammates, his sponsors, and the entire industry which had made him a star. sAviOr can play BW for fun all he wants. But he has forfeited his ability to play starcraft. It would be appalling if any team or league ever hosted him again. fuck that. there are ex-hackers playing sc2 all over the place. savior has been punished by court for his criminal actions. The SC community is not here to judge his criminal actions, the court is doing that and has done it already. We can only judge his moral actions and I dont see a reason why we shouldnt forgive him after a cpl years while hailing ex-hackers and ladder abusers as sc2 heroes. | ||
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VeNoM HaZ Skill
United States1528 Posts
On May 26 2011 09:01 diehilde wrote: fuck that. there are ex-hackers playing sc2 all over the place. savior has been punished by court for his criminal actions. The SC community is not here to judge his criminal actions, the court is doing that and has done it already. We can only judge his moral actions and I dont see a reason why we shouldnt forgive him after a cpl years while hailing ex-hackers and ladder abusers as sc2 heroes. Illegal activity =/= to hacking Besides that, we're not talking about map-hacks on iccup, we're talking about licensed pro-gaming fraud. | ||
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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
On May 26 2011 08:57 Flameling wrote: sAviOr really needs to make his comeback... even after the "match-fixing scandal"... Even though he is a criminal, doesn't he deserve a second chance? I mean, he made a great influence upon the korean SC scene and many of the players within it. Even today, we discuss and use his builds within the game, improving what he first started. A player of his caliber shouldn't be held down... didn't he make a lot of money even without fixing matches? Like that child abductor that kidnapped your kid deserves a second chance at babysitting? Savior has used up his trust, end of story. | ||
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Mirl
Turkey173 Posts
obviously. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
On May 26 2011 09:29 Catch]22 wrote: Like that child abductor that kidnapped your kid deserves a second chance at babysitting? Savior has used up his trust, end of story. So much rage at Savior so little rage for GundamWerra. It is weird yes? | ||
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diehilde
Germany1596 Posts
On May 26 2011 09:23 VeNoM HaZ Skill wrote: Illegal activity =/= to hacking Besides that, we're not talking about map-hacks on iccup, we're talking about licensed pro-gaming fraud. i recognize that illegal activity is not equal to hacking. illegal activity means its punishable by law. hacking in bw is not prohibited by law thus it is not illegal. savior got punished by law. i dont see the reason why something being illegal or legal should matter when it comes down to morally judging it. I can only repeat myself, judges are there for punishing illegal actions, the sc community is not! It can only punish actions it deems as morally wrong. I dont think the moral difference between hacking/cheating in tournaments and match fixing in a tournament is so big that it justifies a difference in punishment from "ok, we gonna ban you for 1-2 years and then its all good" vs "banned from everything for life!". Stating facts that everybody knows doesnt really add much to a discussion, its the conclusions you draw from the facts and the reasoning behind it that matters, which sadly you didnt provide at all. | ||
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Catch]22
Sweden2683 Posts
On May 26 2011 09:31 Antisocialmunky wrote: So much rage at Savior so little rage for GundamWerra. It is weird yes? Why would it be, he is much more important and for him to have done this is a much huger deal than GundamWerra, might as well have been YOU along side Savior, couldnt care less unless he was a major player. Thats why people focus their attention to Savior, he becomes sort of the figurehead of the whole deal, he did get JAIL, unsure what punishment GundamWerra got | ||
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Redmark
Canada2129 Posts
On May 26 2011 09:31 Antisocialmunky wrote: So much rage at Savior so little rage for GundamWerra. It is weird yes? No one even knew who GundamWerra was. No one will probably hear his name again. Savior is an example. If he is rehabilitated you have to bring back everyone else, and once you do that where's Kespa's credibility in front of the next generation of would-be match fixers? | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
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RebelMusic
United States66 Posts
RE: the super old tweet referring to him as 'worse than a child molester'.... seems a bit excessive and i applaud the coach for correcting himself.... He also made a mistake, corrected it, and is now moving on.... Moral judgments as to which crime or decision is better/worse really isn't important. In fact i would say its presumptuous for any of us to cast the first stone... as it were. | ||
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Tomred87
United States46 Posts
On May 26 2011 09:35 diehilde wrote: i recognize that illegal activity is not equal to hacking. illegal activity means its punishable by law. hacking in bw is not prohibited by law thus it is not illegal. savior got punished by law. i dont see the reason why something being illegal or legal should matter when it comes down to morally judging it. I can only repeat myself, judges are there for punishing illegal actions, the sc community is not! It can only punish actions it deems as morally wrong. I dont think the moral difference between hacking/cheating in tournaments and match fixing in a tournament is so big that it justifies a difference in punishment from "ok, we gonna ban you for 1-2 years and then its all good" vs "banned from everything for life!". Stating facts that everybody knows doesnt really add much to a discussion, its the conclusions you draw from the facts and the reasoning behind it that matters, which sadly you didnt provide at all. So if a progamer stabs another progamer in the arm in rage after losing a match and serves 5 years in prison for it, he should be allowed back in progaming afterwards because he's served his time and paid his price in the legal system right? And it's not the SC community that's decided to keep Savior banned. It's KeSPA trying to uphold a moral standard of their own. And he didn't match fix in a tournament. He worked with thugs that ran underground gambling groups to fix several matches. | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
On May 26 2011 10:28 Xiphos wrote: I think that sAviOr kind of have to give a chance to redeem himself somehow. Like community hours, working for free to teach people how to play SC:BW and like giving speech about how much of a bad decision he made in life and etc. And so does others. I want to see Type-B, Go.Go, hwasin return. Teacher? No, he'd probably teach them incorrectly on purpose so they will never do well. Community service? Sure Giving speech? Sure Teacher? No. | ||
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J1.au
Australia3596 Posts
On May 26 2011 09:31 Antisocialmunky wrote: So much rage at Savior so little rage for GundamWerra. It is weird yes? Who is GundamWerra? I've never heard of him. You shouldn't be surprised that the actions of a nobody has caused so little rage compared to those of a famous professional Brood War player. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On May 26 2011 09:23 VeNoM HaZ Skill wrote: Illegal activity =/= to hacking Besides that, we're not talking about map-hacks on iccup, we're talking about licensed pro-gaming fraud. Cheating is vastly more rampant in the SC community than you believe. Cheating was rampant in WCG throughout the years even in Korea. There was one time when -- I think it was Anytime who did this -- somehow played a dozen games on the qualifier ladder for WCG Korea while playing a match in studio simultaneously. lolwut? And the worst case of fraud, in some ways definitely worse than what Savior did, was the WDT scandal where Smuft (and possibly Elky) had the Korean progamer Oversky play in a foreigner tournament that was supposed to give a chance to a foreigner in Korean progaming. And Oversky legitimately was losing to Ret so they had a rematch and he won. Then they pocketed the money instead of paying for a foreigner to come to Korea. WDT was a golden opportunity for a top foreigner to get a foot in the door. Quite frankly, Korea wasn't going to pursue foreigners unless those foreigners could get results and not since Giyom and Elky was there any foreigner who could do it. Some more opportunities were given after the WDT scandal, yeah, but these were all players who found the money to fly to Korea on their own. It's just such a huge risk to take. But if someone like Ret or Testie had made it back in 2002... they had a chance and Korea would have given more thought to the foreigner scene I think. Edit: my point about all of this cheating is not that Savior should be acquitted of everything just because he's being punished elsewhere, but that the community is a bit naive and very hypocritical. Savior has been tarred and feathered, but he really is only the tip of the iceberg. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On May 26 2011 11:26 J1.au wrote: Who is GundamWerra? I've never heard of him. You shouldn't be surprised that the actions of a nobody has caused so little rage compared to those of a famous professional Brood War player. I believe he's the person who was managing a team and started sexually harassing the (underage) gamers he was managing. Pretty serious, no? | ||
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War Horse
United States247 Posts
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SweetAs
New Zealand290 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On May 26 2011 11:44 SweetAs wrote: Kinda upsets me that this is taken so seriously. Match fixing and rigging in real sports don;t even get this much punishment if any at all. Boxing for one. Which upsets me, because throwing the quality of the sport and your self-respect for some money really deserves severe punishment IMO. I applaud kespa for holding a high moral standard. | ||
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