|
I was/am a fan of Savior but I'm going to have to say that banning the players was not childish at all. A lot of damage was done to the industry because unlike sports which will always get funding, SC:BW is very dependent on its image as a "clean" activity for teenagers.
When it comes to the issue of trying to blot out the record of someone like Savior... the issue I have isn't so much that Savior earned those trophies, it's the history. Not just of MJY but of all the players who competed. You just can't erase that and even if you wanted to, erasing what Savior did means that you are also denying the accomplishments of those who faced him.
I do hope for the best for MJY and I hope he has learned from this, but his progaming days are over and I wouldn't want him to come back even if he could, as much as it pains me to say.
|
I can't stand the argument that MJY should be able to keep his place in the SC pantheon. Yes he won through legitimate skill, but people seem to be misunderstanding how fragile the professional SC scene is in the grand scheme of things.
We see it now more clearly with SC2: people like Day[9] and Tastosis making a genuine effort to help the sport grow because they love it and are willing to devote a portion of their life to giving it a future. MJY did the opposite. He took a game he loved and for his own gain he risked its downfall.
Would you be as quick to forgive him if Korean Air had pulled their sponsorship of the OSL as a result of the trial, leaving the SC community stranded? He would still have been a bonjwa, still won legitimately and still done the exact same things. The only difference is that people managed to continue making money despite his stupidity.
tl:dr: Savior took a game that was fragile despite not being in its infancy and dragged it through the mud, risking the future of the professional scene and directly threatening something that thousands of people had devoted their lives to. For money. I'm sorry, but I'd be damn pissed and so would you.
|
i can't believe his stream thread turned into a dozen-page argument over his scandal
we make our own decisions about how to judge others, lets not force hateful ideas down other people's throats;
if they still like savior then let them like it, savior was a fucking god bonjwa after all, and anyone can make mistakes
maybe in the grand scheme of things savior was just a young-minded child making rash decisions, not fully aware of how much this could potentially hurt everybody, and just get it over with now, its all in the past
|
On March 08 2011 08:06 smekz wrote:
what a poor choice of words.. as a coach he should set the example and be more thoughtful :\
as coach, he should set a better example, yes
but as coach, he took it harder than anyone because of how he acts as a personal father-figure to dozens of aspiring youngn's who practice hour after hour for days on end to succeed in the SC scene
|
come to me and ill spit u in ur face KT coach.. pathetic tweet, should be ashamed.. i know savior did some stupid shit, but i still love him, he was a great zerg player : )
|
where are the vods ?,this is a trash talk without vods ;(
|
On March 12 2011 05:27 nurle wrote:
come to me and ill spit u in ur face KT coach.. pathetic tweet, should be ashamed.. i know savior did some stupid shit, but i still love him, he was a great zerg player : )
right, this man has got it
i like the way you think bro, when the KT coach does something we despise him for, nothing better than to get him back in the same way
|
On March 12 2011 04:47 Mortality wrote:
I was/am a fan of Savior but I'm going to have to say that banning the players was not childish at all. A lot of damage was done to the industry because unlike sports which will always get funding, SC:BW is very dependent on its image as a "clean" activity for teenagers.
When it comes to the issue of trying to blot out the record of someone like Savior... the issue I have isn't so much that Savior earned those trophies, it's the history. Not just of MJY but of all the players who competed. You just can't erase that and even if you wanted to, erasing what Savior did means that you are also denying the accomplishments of those who faced him.
I do hope for the best for MJY and I hope he has learned from this, but his progaming days are over and I wouldn't want him to come back even if he could, as much as it pains me to say.
Well, it`s an unrealistic image that the progamming industry try to promote. Not only it put pressure on the older pros but it traps them into stereotypical characters. When i read bisu`s interview and that he says that he doesnt really do anything else put play games and stay home, i know he isnt being honnest.
SaViOr is an important part of Brood War even if Kt`s coach and the rest of the industry wants to deny it. It just shows that Esport isnt serious enough yet. Those people were just affraid that they`d lose their jobs if the industry came to an end.
And seriously, Football didnt end when Juventus and merseille cheated, as a matter of fact, both teams played in the champions league a few years after rebuilding their teams. If an industry cant deal with a crisis, it means it was meant to end anyways.
|
1019 Posts
^the brood war scene in korea isn't going to die anytime soon, alright? They don't call it an industry for nothing if its treated like any other sport.
|
Maybe if they treated the players better none of this match fixing would have happened...Just saying
|
On March 12 2011 06:39 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:
Well, it`s an unrealistic image that the progamming industry try to promote. Not only it put pressure on the older pros but it traps them into stereotypical characters. When i read bisu`s interview and that he says that he doesnt really do anything else put play games and stay home, i know he isnt being honnest.
And what do you base that accusation on? What, in your opinion, is he doing?
|
On March 12 2011 04:55 TaimalaiX wrote:
I can't stand the argument that MJY should be able to keep his place in the SC pantheon. Yes he won through legitimate skill, but people seem to be misunderstanding how fragile the professional SC scene is in the grand scheme of things.
We see it now more clearly with SC2: people like Day[9] and Tastosis making a genuine effort to help the sport grow because they love it and are willing to devote a portion of their life to giving it a future. MJY did the opposite. He took a game he loved and for his own gain he risked its downfall.
Would you be as quick to forgive him if Korean Air had pulled their sponsorship of the OSL as a result of the trial, leaving the SC community stranded? He would still have been a bonjwa, still won legitimately and still done the exact same things. The only difference is that people managed to continue making money despite his stupidity.
tl:dr: Savior took a game that was fragile despite not being in its infancy and dragged it through the mud, risking the future of the professional scene and directly threatening something that thousands of people had devoted their lives to. For money. I'm sorry, but I'd be damn pissed and so would you.
Listen, the nature of the industry is it`s own downfall. You got this nurtured image, the teenager image, innocent and all that. Stork is concidered an old guy, he`s younger than me, i`m 25, and in society im a very young person. When you hear Jaedong being down and stuff, i cant think of anything else that he`s got enormous pressure. He`s got to make some money before the innevitable 2 years of army service he has to do come. He probably think he wont be able to do it pass a certain age, when truely, there`s no reason. I played, personally, BW since `97. My apm is still around 400. All this talk of performance droppin while getting older is utter bullshit. It`s just a set up. A set up that probably scared a few pro gammers into doing the wrong things.
Corruption, its a big problem in asia. I lived 3 years in Thailand. I`ve seen it. It`s a problem within asian society, like gambling and other stuffs. Would SaviOr has done it if the environent witihn the industry would have been different? Maybe not. But would all of the others that followed him into cheating would have if the system was better, that the pays for the B teamers were better, that players would be allowed some friggin Freedom? I dont think so. That`s my personal opinion
The industry played the blame game, and they didnt check themselves first. Now we got more and more pros leaving the industry, or leaving for SC2 because like the OGS team manager said ``Kespa is like living under a communist government``. Kwanro needing psychotherapy FFS. It`s telling.
Anyways, i feel that things need to change, instead of people trying to save their jobs. Im not saying SaviOr should play again, but he should be forgiven. He should not be forgotten. Im a proud fan of Ma jae Yong. He was a zerg hero. He`ll always remain one, and if he dont, its very sad.
|
On March 12 2011 06:52 white_horse wrote:
^the brood war scene in korea isn't going to die anytime soon, alright? They don't call it an industry for nothing if its treated like any other sport.
Listen, i have personally not started playing SC2 yet. I will in the next months. BW, its been a part of my life like anyone else here. I have also never claimed BW would die anytime, if soon. But you got the symptom of players having enough of certain thing about the environement they are in, not the game in itself.
It`s not about BW diying its about an industry to probably needs some changes.
|
On March 12 2011 07:04 Simplistik wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 06:39 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:
Well, it`s an unrealistic image that the progamming industry try to promote. Not only it put pressure on the older pros but it traps them into stereotypical characters. When i read bisu`s interview and that he says that he doesnt really do anything else put play games and stay home, i know he isnt being honnest. And what do you base that accusation on? What, in your opinion, is he doing?
Arguable, i base my opinion on the fact that i am a human being, and that he is too. I dont think he`d talk about the fact that he probably go out and have some dates. It`s bisu for christ sakes. He has some needs. He probably has some other passions like anyone else. I love videogames myself, but i also love music and play instruments. I remember Movie`s getting crushed on his twitter, and other pro gamer critized because they were doing other stuffs than gaming.
I mean everyone here loves gaming, and if you look at the Sc2 scene, the pros they talk about what they do with their lives. Fruitdealers going to snowboard, and drinking a little too much. Nestea and Mc as well. They are free to live their lives, they have freedom, and since they do, they talk about it.
I dont know what bisu does but, he probably have other passions. And its sad that public pressure doesnt allow him to talk about it because i`d like to know him better. After all, he`s awesome!
Anyways i dont wanna sound like someone who`s claiming the apocalyspe, and id like the BW scene to stay and remain successful, but i just think that certain things needs to change.
=D
|
Koreans acting like they're Jesus.
Savior fighting.
|
On March 12 2011 07:16 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 07:04 Simplistik wrote:On March 12 2011 06:39 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:
Well, it`s an unrealistic image that the progamming industry try to promote. Not only it put pressure on the older pros but it traps them into stereotypical characters. When i read bisu`s interview and that he says that he doesnt really do anything else put play games and stay home, i know he isnt being honnest. And what do you base that accusation on? What, in your opinion, is he doing? Arguable, i base my opinion on the fact that i am a human being, and that he is too. I dont think he`d talk about the fact that he probably go out and have some dates. It`s bisu for christ sakes. He has some needs. He probably has some other passions like anyone else. I love videogames myself, but i also love music and play instruments. I remember Movie`s getting crushed on his twitter, and other pro gamer critized because they were doing other stuffs than gaming. I mean everyone here loves gaming, and if you look at the Sc2 scene, the pros they talk about what they do with their lives. Fruitdealers going to snowboard, and drinking a little too much. Nestea and Mc as well. They are free to live their lives, they have freedom, and since they do, they talk about it. I dont know what bisu does but, he probably have other passions. And its sad that public pressure doesnt allow him to talk about it because i`d like to know him better. After all, he`s awesome! Anyways i dont wanna sound like someone who`s claiming the apocalyspe, and id like the BW scene to stay and remain successful, but i just think that certain things needs to change. =D
part of the reason bisu is so good is because he is able to dedicated himself to only starcraft. i don't think he's lying at all.
now look at stork. cellphone games, wow, girlfriends, etc etc and all he has to show for it is 2 silvers.
|
On March 12 2011 07:47 rauk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2011 07:16 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:On March 12 2011 07:04 Simplistik wrote:On March 12 2011 06:39 HowSoOnIsNow wrote:
Well, it`s an unrealistic image that the progamming industry try to promote. Not only it put pressure on the older pros but it traps them into stereotypical characters. When i read bisu`s interview and that he says that he doesnt really do anything else put play games and stay home, i know he isnt being honnest. And what do you base that accusation on? What, in your opinion, is he doing? Arguable, i base my opinion on the fact that i am a human being, and that he is too. I dont think he`d talk about the fact that he probably go out and have some dates. It`s bisu for christ sakes. He has some needs. He probably has some other passions like anyone else. I love videogames myself, but i also love music and play instruments. I remember Movie`s getting crushed on his twitter, and other pro gamer critized because they were doing other stuffs than gaming. I mean everyone here loves gaming, and if you look at the Sc2 scene, the pros they talk about what they do with their lives. Fruitdealers going to snowboard, and drinking a little too much. Nestea and Mc as well. They are free to live their lives, they have freedom, and since they do, they talk about it. I dont know what bisu does but, he probably have other passions. And its sad that public pressure doesnt allow him to talk about it because i`d like to know him better. After all, he`s awesome! Anyways i dont wanna sound like someone who`s claiming the apocalyspe, and id like the BW scene to stay and remain successful, but i just think that certain things needs to change. =D part of the reason bisu is so good is because he is able to dedicated himself to only starcraft. i don't think he's lying at all. now look at stork. cellphone games, wow, girlfriends, etc etc and all he has to show for it is 2 silvers.
You serious? Bisu hasn't even won an OSL: in fact, he hasn't even been in the finals for the OSL yet (2 MSL Gold, 1 MSL Silver). Stork has won 1 OSL Title, 3 OSL Silvers and an MSL Silver. That's a helluva lot better than Bisu.
|
You serious? Bisu hasn't even won an OSL: in fact, he hasn't even been in the finals for the OSL yet (2 MSL Gold, 1 MSL Silver). Stork has won 1 OSL Title, 3 OSL Silvers and an MSL Silver. That's a helluva lot better than Bisu.
Okay dude, there is no reason to turn this into a Bisu vs Stork argument. And at the very least if you are going to, get your facts right. (Bisu has 3 MSL golds)
|
How did a Savior thread go to a Bisu vs Stork argument?
|
Back on topic... I'd like to add one point of view to perhaps explain why fixing games was even bigger in Korea? In Korea, as far as I know, gambling is illegal. (well except for foreigners who come to gamble in Korea) It's illegal for Koreans to gamble anywhere actually, even outside of Korea. The idea that progamers not only gambled but threw their own matches... It was probably very very shocking and unforgivable.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
