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Two of those are characteristics of the Tea Party/internet libertarian movement.
You have no idea what you're talking about. All libertarianism means is you do your thing and I do mine. If a group feels like they're going to take it to the next level and make it violent or extreme, well thats not really libertarian is it?
EDIT: Not speaking of tea party. I see the tea party as a group of libertarians who are trying to get the rest of them more active in politics, because they tend not to be. Their over-the-top rhetoric and extremism is a little ridiculous.
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the argument that palin et al encourage things like this to happen definitely has wings..
take away the lax gun control in that region and extremist tea party rhetoric and this situation might've never happened and such incidents would definitely be more rare
the guy would still be crazy, but if, say, he was influenced by hippie culture he'd be in some basement giggling to himself and his target would be a flying pink elephant or sth
extremist rhetoric (the kind the tea party endorses) can influence retards or crazies everywhere to do extremist stuff, which is much more dangerous than, say, moderate rhetoric which can influence retards and crazies to do moderate stuff, like watch a football game with lots of passion
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United States22883 Posts
On January 09 2011 08:33 Hughduffel wrote:Show nested quote +
Two of those are characteristics of the Tea Party/internet libertarian movement.
You have no idea what you're talking about. All libertarianism means is you do your thing and I do mine. If a group feels like they're going to take it to the next level and make it violent or extreme, well thats not really libertarian is it?
Libertarianism and internet libertarians are two separate things. The population of libertarians and influence of Austrian economics on the real world are minuscule. The population of internet libertarians and Austrian supporters on the internet, fueled by documentaries and .us websites, is enormous. I'm not talking about Cato people.
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On January 09 2011 08:27 SnK-Arcbound wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 08:20 Jibba wrote:On January 09 2011 08:18 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
Here is a list of his favorite books: I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The Wizard Of OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland, Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living, Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest, Pulp,Through The Looking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man And The Sea, Gulliver’s Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.
Sorry guys, just like the guy who flew the plane into a IRS building, surprise it's someone from the far left. But just remember, the left is peaceful, no matter how many people they kill. What does his list of favorite books have to do with anything? There's no way to judge any sort of affiliation based on that book list. Whether someone loathes fiat currency? Yes. I guessed you missed some of the important books, let me highlight them for you. The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, We The Living. Tea partiers just looooooooooove Hitler, Stalin, Mousilini and Mao.
Seriously? You seriously think that you can read anything into that choice of books as to his political alignment? Those books are from all over the political spectrum.
Animal farm attacks authoritarianism, Mein Kampf is nazism, The republic is right wing/ in support of authoritarianism, The communist Manifesto is communist, Fahrenheit attacks authoritarianism, one flew over attacks authoritarianism. The rest show absolutely nothing about his political ideals at all as far as I know. The ones that are political are so varied that you cannot say he is either right of left wing from them.
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This is a terrible tragedy... made even worse by the fact that one of the dead was a 9 year old girl.
I wonder what drives people to do something like this. A lot of my friend are railing about the Tea Party/Glenn Beck/Sarah Palin for influencing people to do shit like this, but it seems a little extreme. Sure, I consider them a bunch of right wing nutjobs, but I don't think even they'd condone violence to get what they want.
They really don't think through the consequences of their actions, though. I think it's been said before, but Sarah Palin had a (since taken down) image on her website:
![[image loading]](http://www.toomanymornings.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/palin-target-map.jpg)
Yep, that's Rep. Gifford's name on there, with a target sign painted on her district. And yep, that's Palin's signature beneath the map. To hake matters worse, one of Rep. Gifford's opponents held a "shoot an M16 with Jesse Kelly to remove Giffords from office" event:
![[image loading]](http://i.huffpost.com/gen/235407/GABRIELLE-GIFFORDS-DEAD.jpg)
Do these people even think? I sincerely hope this kills both of their political careers. Of course, to be fair, there's no proof yet that the shooter was influenced by or had heard of either of these, but come on. Under no circumstances should you be implying that violence towards those in office is at all acceptable.
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On January 09 2011 08:34 Taguchi wrote:
the argument that palin et al encourage things like this to happen definitely has wings..
take away the lax gun control...
Because people who kill people with guns obey gun control restrictions.... Should I link to the Luby's massacre again? Or maybe to all the mall/school/off limits shootings?
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Jesus christ, what the fuck. Why?
Brave actions by the bystander who took down the gunman. Hopefully the reasons behind this shit will be found.
Edit: Can we not make a bunch of conclusions as to why the shooter did it? Hopefully we'll find out if it was some lone "politically motivated" psycho, or just a psycho or if he was paid or what. As much as I hate Sarah Palin, it's ignorant to make this into a big left-vs-right thing. There will be people to blame (maybe just the shooter, maybe not) but until we find out more, let's not jump to conclusions. Or off topic.
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On January 09 2011 08:30 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
I guessed you missed some of the important books, let me highlight them for you.
The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, We The Living. Tea partiers just looooooooooove Hitler, Stalin, Mousilini and Mao.
But the left does? We all know Communists and Fascists get along so well...[/QUOTE]
Hitler, mousilini, and stalin all worked together to take over Europe. If you want I can get a 2 hour video describing how Communist Russia worked in tandem with Hitler and articles about how communism and socialism are ideologically almost identical from socialists, even though communist russia appeared to be against socialist ideas.
When this man turns out to be extremely left, I know every single person on here will refuse to admit it. He's a psycho, he's crazy, don't put any politcal leaning to him, all the while insinuating he is from a right ideology. When people claiming that Mein Kampf is rightist philosophy, when it's the manifesto of a man who sets up socialism in his country, with him as the supreme ruler, there is no point in arguing.
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On January 09 2011 08:26 Jaksiel wrote:
I don't think you can easily cram this guy into any established political ideology, but I guess that doesn't stop people from trying to use anything for political gain.
Yeah, either that or they are trolling. But the whole debate is just sad and shows how morally bankrupt america is, if people try to blame somebody only hours after such an attack.
Don't think about the problem, think about how you can use it against your political enemies. *sigh*
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I don't know if this has been discussed or not but I'll paste it anyway just in case.
Judge Roll was a 1991 judicial appointee of George H. W. Bush after a distinguished career as an Arizona state attorney, an assistant U.S.attorney in the state, and then as a state court judge. In 2009, he drew sharp political criticism -- and death threats -- when he ruled on a pre-trial motion in favor of illegal immigrants in a civil case involving an Arizona rancher. At the time, the threats, online and otherwise, were significant and persistent enough enough to warrant full protective status from the U.S. Marshal's Service for Roll and his family. No charges were brought against the four men who were subsequently identified as having made the threats.
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On January 09 2011 08:36 Hughduffel wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 08:34 Taguchi wrote:
the argument that palin et al encourage things like this to happen definitely has wings..
take away the lax gun control... Because people who kill people with guns obey gun control restrictions.... Should I link to the Luby's massacre again? Or maybe to all the mall/school/off limits shootings?
man, can u not see that the chain of retard/crazy guy gets influenced by X, goes and buys a gun and kills a bunch of people can be broken when said retard cant just go to a shop and get a gun?
in my country i dont have the slightest idea where or how i'd get a hold of any gun, this alone can act as sufficient deterrent for such people, nevermind actually implementing regulations like "hey, this guy has a myspace page full of crazy quotes, maybe we shouldnt sell him a gun"
sorry for the derail, wont continue on this :/
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Yea his videos are pretty damn creepy, i watched like two then decided i didnt want to see any more.
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On January 09 2011 08:39 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
When people claiming that Mein Kampf is rightist philosophy, when it's the manifesto of a man who sets up socialism in his country, with him as the supreme ruler, there is no point in arguing.
Hitler didn't set up socialism. Please read a history book, or at the very least wikipedia before you continue writing total nonsense.
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These videos are amazing. Even the music is nuts.
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Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 08:39 SnK-Arcbound wrote:On January 09 2011 08:30 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
I guessed you missed some of the important books, let me highlight them for you.
The Communist Manifesto, Mein Kampf, We The Living. Tea partiers just looooooooooove Hitler, Stalin, Mousilini and Mao. But the left does? We all know Communists and Fascists get along so well... Hitler, mousilini, and stalin all worked together to take over Europe. If you want I can get a 2 hour video describing how Communist Russia worked in tandem with Hitler and articles about how communism and socialism are ideologically almost identical from socialists, even though communist russia appeared to be against socialist ideas. When this man turns out to be extremely left, I know every single person on here will refuse to admit it. He's a psycho, he's crazy, don't put any politcal leaning to him, all the while insinuating he is from a right ideology. When people claiming that Mein Kampf is rightist philosophy, when it's the manifesto of a man who sets up socialism in his country, with him as the supreme ruler, there is no point in arguing.
I can find you a 2-hour video proving that the US did 911 and how the corporations are controlling everything we do. Doesn't make it more true.
Also, I like how you dodged the fact that an Ayn Rand novel is on that list. How does that fit into your ideological portrait? Animal Farm is blatantly anti-communist. A fair share of those books are apolitical. I really doubt you can make an accurate assessment of a persons political orientation based on the books he/she reads.
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On January 09 2011 08:47 Rflcrx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 08:39 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
When people claiming that Mein Kampf is rightist philosophy, when it's the manifesto of a man who sets up socialism in his country, with him as the supreme ruler, there is no point in arguing. Hitler didn't set up socialism. Please read a history book, or at the very least wikipedia before you continue writing total nonsense.
Yet another person who doesn't understand the distinction between national socialism and socialism.
There's a very big difference, Arcbound, I suggest you look into it.
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His exact motivation was not immediately clear. Federal law enforcement officials were poring over captured versions of a MySpace page that belonged to Jared Loughner and over Youtube video published to the Internet weeks ago under an account "Classitup10" and linked to him. The MySpace page, which was removed within minutes of the gunman being identified by U.S. officials, included a mysterious "Goodbye friends" message published hours before the shooting and exhorted his friends to "Please don't be mad at me."
In one of several Youtube videos, which featured text against a dark background, Loughner described inventing a new U.S. currency and complained about the illiteracy rate among people living in Giffords' congressional district in Arizona. Two spellings of his last name were given in the aftermath of the shooting — Loughner and Laughner.
"I know who's listening: Government Officials, and the People," Loughner wrote. "Nearly all the people, who don't know this accurate information of a new currency, aren't aware of mind control and brainwash methods. If I have my civil rights, then this message wouldn't have happen (sic)."
Source
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On January 09 2011 08:47 Rflcrx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 08:39 SnK-Arcbound wrote:
When people claiming that Mein Kampf is rightist philosophy, when it's the manifesto of a man who sets up socialism in his country, with him as the supreme ruler, there is no point in arguing. Hitler didn't set up socialism. Please read a history book, or at the very least wikipedia before you continue writing total nonsense.
Hitler didn't set up social welfare to families who would raise blonde haired blue eyed children in order to help promote the perfect human and create the master race of Aryans? Would you like for me to quote Karl Marx for why exterminating the inferior races is how you bring about social revolution? Or do you not believe that Communist Russia and Hitlers Germany (National Socialist Party) worked together?
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I think that the thing on Jesse Kelly's site was just a funny mistake. Something that you'd expect to see on the funny pictures thread.
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EPT
