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This is an original strategy and is largely based off the 7RR but stop many known counters to it. I haven't lost with it yet when I do not mess up the execution. I am 2000+ plat.
Overview
This build is very aggressive and is aimed at damaging the opponent economically fairly early on. This build relies heavily on the element of surprise and is very much based on the 7 roach rush. Roaches are the strongest tier one units and counter both zealots and marines. With the double gas block you prevent any air counter before your roaches arrive and limit the opponent to marines and zealots.
Goal
Goal: to do economic damage Pro: limits opponent to 2 gateway/barracks play or cannon/bunker rush, has the element of surprise. Con: requires lots of micro and the ability to multitask as well as make decisive decisions after initial attack
Basic Build
6/10 - Drone X 4
10/10 – Send 2 drones out to morph extractors
10/10 - Single Extractor trick
11/10 - Overlord
12/18 - Spawning Pool
11/18 - Drone X 5
15/18 - Extractor (right after the 15th drone) (Send 3 drones on this asap)
14/18 – Drone x2
16/18 - Queen (cast larva asap)
18/18 - Overlord
18/18 - Roach Warren (when the queen is around 75% done)
17/18 - Overlord
17/34 - Roach X7 (send to attack enemy asap)
33/34 - Drone
34/34 - Overlord
expand or continue to apply pressure at this point
Execution
If you executed the build order sucessfully, your roaches should be ready around 5:05.
The goals of this attack are the same as the 7 Roach Rush. Kill army if possible then attack workers
If it is working, keep pumping roaches/lings.
Adaptation
If you are unable to break down the wall deny the expansion for as long as possible. You will be ahead in gas so tech up to gain an advantage.
Notes
The double extractor block can also be used with banelings. Banelings are a counter to both marines and zealots so forcing your opponent to go with mineral units only will allow your banelings to do great amounts of damage. A fast air tech is also possible against protoss.
Replays
will be uploaded later
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This is an original strategy and is largely based off the 7RR but stop many known counters to it. I haven't lost with it yet when I do not mess up the execution. I am 2000+ plat.
Impressive credentials
This build relies heavily on the element of surprise and is very much based on the 7 roach rush.
Most cheesy all ins do
If you executed the build order sucessfully, your roaches should be ready around 5:05
Good I only have to waste 5 minutes of my opponents life now.
If it is working, keep pumping roaches/lings.
I mean if you've degraded yourself to this build, what else are you gonna do, transition?
Replays
will be uploaded later
Are they all platinum players with an equally illustrious list of contributions?
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I've seen this build before. Your drones wont make it in time to steal both extractors.
And even if you do, a smart T/P can easily grab one geyser, when he sees 2 drones on the way to both gases.
I suppose it works OK in platinum.
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Note to readers SubtleArt lost to this build.
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There is no midgame when you have 13 drones mining minerals at the 7 minute mark
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Rofl this is why TL needs to remove unesscary post that is most likely to be known as "theory craft" This build only works when your opponent doesnt know how to react to it. and if this process of double gas steal works, then most likely move for toss or terran will do is probably going to nat and expoing or go full all-in. I really feel ashamed for knowing you as my friend just for posting this.
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Since when are roaches the counter to marines? Marines have always beaten them cost for cost. And roaches are only good against pure zealots, add in stalkers and it's alot more even
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On January 08 2011 06:48 Oleksandr wrote:
I've seen this build before. Your drones wont make it in time to steal both extractors.
And even if you do, a smart T/P can easily grab one geyser, when he sees 2 drones on the way to both gases.
I suppose it works OK in platinum.
This is why so many good players refuse to post in the strat section. It's all filled with bad players who make knee jerk assumptions 2 seconds after reading something without testing it out. On a two player map the 2 drones will always make it on time if the other player does a standard refinery / assimilator timing.
This build may be horrible but not that that reason.
On January 08 2011 06:52 mythyasha wrote:
Note to readers SubtleArt lost to this build.
We'll have a Bo123190312830183019830909 and I'll let you do that build every time. I guarentee you won't win a single one
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On January 08 2011 06:56 1Eris1 wrote:
Since when are roaches the counter to marines? Marines have always beaten them cost for cost. And roaches are only good against pure zealots, add in stalkers and it's alot more even
Lol is that a joke? You know why the good player to horrible player ratio on the strat forums is like 1:459839? Cause people like you post here with blatantly wrong statements that you're oblivious to and good players just get discouraged and ask themselves why they bother to reason with bronze players.
On January 08 2011 06:55 loveeholicce wrote:
Rofl this is why TL needs to remove unesscary post that is most likely to be known as "theory craft" This build only works when your opponent doesnt know how to react to it. and if this process of double gas steal works, then most likely move for toss or terran will do is probably going to nat and expoing or go full all-in. I really feel ashamed for knowing you as my friend just for posting this.
Whoever the hell wrote this (And I have no idea who it is to be honest) must be a horrible person. Probably some chinese guy that goes to an expensive private school
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On January 08 2011 06:48 Oleksandr wrote:
I've seen this build before. Your drones wont make it in time to steal both extractors.
And even if you do, a smart T/P can easily grab one geyser, when he sees 2 drones on the way to both gases.
I suppose it works OK in platinum.
The drones arrive at 11/10 for the zerg and unless the terran/toss is going for a gas earlier than 13. Also, I have used it against diamond before but unless the opponent is expecting you to double gas then they won't react in time. Also, even if it does fail it doesn't put you as far behind as a failed attack.
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@ Stropheum, thats why this build cannot go into furthur transition becuase of low drone count. you simply cannot use this build jsut to break down your opponents economy. this is full all-in/bm all-in lol. i wouldnt reallly really rely on this build if i was a zerg user.
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@ SubtleArt. ROFL, whoever you are... you must be racist for thinking that i am chinese... tisk tisk... ever heard of reading my profile? :D
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@loveeholicce it is 17 drones at 5 min mark with 7 roaches with potential to do economic damage or win the game.
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On January 08 2011 07:01 mythyasha wrote:
@loveeholicce it is 17 drones at 5 min mark with 7 roaches with potential to do economic damage or win the game.
And then once that fails you realize you have half the worker count of your opponent and a small handful of shitty units that move as fast as a snail.
On January 08 2011 07:01 mythyasha wrote:
@loveeholicce it is 17 drones at 5 min mark with 7 roaches with potential to do economic damage or win the game.
Wow that loveholic guy u played must be wood league or something. Please post a useful rep. Unless your opponent is over 3000 diamond its meaningless honestly.
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You just cant simply rely on your roaches rofl. in the replay where i just went all-in, i didnt think about going to my nat really. if i did, you really wouldnt have the advvatnage...
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Bro play me in a bo3 we'll see how bad your gay rush crumbles.
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I've tried this a few times on small maps vs P for fun, it can work if their bad or if you just catch them off guard, but it is an all in so I would not suggest doing it. Especially if you're still in plat, which basicly means you still need to learn your basics. All ins like that can work/be fun once in a while, but relying on them as a whole will not make you a better player.
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surprised it even works in plat. this sounds like a silver level strategy.
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On January 08 2011 07:09 hunts wrote:
I've tried this a few times on small maps vs P for fun, it can work if their bad or if you just catch them off guard, but it is an all in so I would not suggest doing it. Especially if you're still in plat, which basicly means you still need to learn your basics. All ins like that can work/be fun once in a while, but relying on them as a whole will not make you a better player.
Unfortunately people like mythyasha like to convince themselves of their own importance. However coming to the painful realization that they're a platinum scrub, they resort to "contribute" by posting the only thing they can do: shitty attack move all ins that require bronze level skill to pull off.
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I'm not very high, like 2450 or so diamond but I've gotten this to work a few times on ladder, but like i said I was screwing around with this, it is definitely not something that should be used often or in serious games, and I really hope the OP realizes this and learns to play standard so that he can become a better player.
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On January 08 2011 07:12 hunts wrote:
I'm not very high, like 2450 or so diamond but I've gotten this to work a few times on ladder, but like i said I was screwing around with this, it is definitely not something that should be used often or in serious games, and I really hope the OP realizes this and learns to play standard so that he can become a better player.
I've had the dishonour of playing with the guy. Trust me theres no chance of that.
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@ hunts, yea this build is definite all-in build.
@IVXX, Dont even start.  i dont know how i failed against this stuipd build rofl. I was so offguard that i just forgot to get my assimilator up :'( anywho, yea this build is definite silver league style so dont take this advise
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1. the rofl stomping of mediocre diamonds on any kind of innovation is just ridiculous. Also those guys telling you how they think the game has to be played annoy me.
2. Any winning strategy is valid. Drone pumping is macro cheese (hoping the opponent does not do a timing push, as scouting is always incomplete), so wtf.
3. Since i won't dedicate half of my spare time training starcraft, i'll probably never get higher than plat. So i am interested in strats which work at my level of play. If you only want diamond proof strats, just create a new forum/section.
Regarding the strat: i'll definitely try it. Cutting eco in order to do a push is not cheese. However you have to apply equal or more damage to your opponent.
Anybody just counting drones to weight a build is an idiot, regardless of league. It is a general principle, that you cut drones in order to do damage. However a good strat applies more damage to your opponent's eco than to yours ;-).
"not to be used in serious games" lololololol. A game should never be serious :-D
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On January 08 2011 07:12 hunts wrote:
I'm not very high, like 2450 or so diamond but I've gotten this to work a few times on ladder, but like i said I was screwing around with this, it is definitely not something that should be used often or in serious games, and I really hope the OP realizes this and learns to play standard so that he can become a better player.
Yeah ! Everybody please play standard .. really exciting. Surprising games are awful and have to get eliminated. Real guys always do standard ...
playing standard means being mediocre at best, hahaha.
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On January 08 2011 07:18 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:
1. the rofl stomping of mediocre diamonds on any kind of innovation is just ridiculous. Also those guys telling you how they think the game has to be played annoy me.
2. Any winning strategy is valid. Drone pumping is macro cheese (hoping the opponent does not do a timing push, as scouting is always incomplete), so wtf.
3. Since i won't dedicate half of my spare time training starcraft, i'll probably never get higher than plat. So i am interested in strats which work at my level of play. If you only want diamond proof strats, just create a new forum/section.
Regarding the strat: i'll definitely try it. Cutting eco in order to do a push is not cheese. However you have to apply equal or more damage to your opponent.
Anybody just counting drones to weight a build is an idiot, regardless of league. It is a general principle, that you cut drones in order to do damage. However a good strat applies more damage to your opponent's eco than to yours ;-).
"not to be used in serious games" lololololol. A game should never be serious :-D
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and normally I wouldn't bother but since I'm still waiting for sc2 to reinstall I may as well tell you why you're bad.
1. Its cause the strats horrible. Someone posts a strat, people analyze it and give their opinions. The strat sucks and thus the comments look like they do.
2. "Drone pumping is macro cheese"...lol. The reason u dont get higher than plat probably isnt cause of lack of practice but cause all your ideas about the game are just wrong. You pump drones to have an econ to make units. The skill is being able to balance drone and army. If drone pumping is cheese then I suppose every single Zerg ever cheeses 90% of their games.
3. A higher level forum would be nice, yes. Then good players wouldn't have to see the eyesore that is a mythyasha strategy post.
Cutting eco in order to do a push is not cheese
In this case you're sacrificing drone production to the point where your attack has to outright win or do huge damage, otherwise you lose. At that point I'm pretty sure its cheese.
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@ Schnullerbacke13 : you really cnat simply just say drone production/scv production/probe production is cheese. like what subtleart said, your idea of starcraft is wrong to not produce up drones. You need economy to proudce units, make up grades, and research on skills. Your bascially just saying now is "make units with number of drones you have with." seriously? so if i build up 90 probes/drones/scvs and make them work for building units, is that cheesy? pfft.
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On January 08 2011 07:02 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 07:01 mythyasha wrote:
@loveeholicce it is 17 drones at 5 min mark with 7 roaches with potential to do economic damage or win the game. And then once that fails you realize you have half the worker count of your opponent and a small handful of shitty units that move as fast as a snail. Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 07:01 mythyasha wrote:
@loveeholicce it is 17 drones at 5 min mark with 7 roaches with potential to do economic damage or win the game. Wow that loveholic guy u played must be wood league or something. Please post a useful rep. Unless your opponent is over 3000 diamond its meaningless honestly.
Chill out, man. Every single one of your posts in this thread makes you seem like an arrogant ass. Why do you have to be so condescending?
And this build isn't going to work if your first push doesn't work. If the opponent fends of the attack, you're going to be wayyy too behind in economy to come back.
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On January 08 2011 07:37 Precision wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 07:02 SubtleArt wrote:On January 08 2011 07:01 mythyasha wrote:
@loveeholicce it is 17 drones at 5 min mark with 7 roaches with potential to do economic damage or win the game. And then once that fails you realize you have half the worker count of your opponent and a small handful of shitty units that move as fast as a snail. On January 08 2011 07:01 mythyasha wrote:
@loveeholicce it is 17 drones at 5 min mark with 7 roaches with potential to do economic damage or win the game. Wow that loveholic guy u played must be wood league or something. Please post a useful rep. Unless your opponent is over 3000 diamond its meaningless honestly. Chill out, man. Every single one of your posts in this thread makes you seem like an arrogant ass. Why do you have to be so condescending? And this build isn't going to work if your first push doesn't work. If the opponent fends of the attack, you're going to be wayyy too behind in economy to come back.
Thanks captain obvious. I'm sure this wasn't apparent to anyone in this thread. Thanks for your enlightenment. I mean its not like the whole purpose of this strat is to build up to a single roach attack.
User was temp banned for this post.
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I watched your replays.
The first win VS Terran on Scrap Station clearly prooved your strategy worthless, at least against T. With the poorest micro and engagement of all time, the Terran chew through your roach ball and was way ahead in economy.
Forcing mineral-only units can't justify the loss in macro you're experiencing while doing this and you still can be crushed. End of discussion I guess.
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On January 08 2011 07:43 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 07:37 Precision wrote:On January 08 2011 07:02 SubtleArt wrote:On January 08 2011 07:01 mythyasha wrote:
@loveeholicce it is 17 drones at 5 min mark with 7 roaches with potential to do economic damage or win the game. And then once that fails you realize you have half the worker count of your opponent and a small handful of shitty units that move as fast as a snail. On January 08 2011 07:01 mythyasha wrote:
@loveeholicce it is 17 drones at 5 min mark with 7 roaches with potential to do economic damage or win the game. Wow that loveholic guy u played must be wood league or something. Please post a useful rep. Unless your opponent is over 3000 diamond its meaningless honestly. Chill out, man. Every single one of your posts in this thread makes you seem like an arrogant ass. Why do you have to be so condescending? And this build isn't going to work if your first push doesn't work. If the opponent fends of the attack, you're going to be wayyy too behind in economy to come back. Thanks captain obvious. I'm sure this wasn't apparent to anyone in this thread. Thanks for your enlightenment. I mean its not like the whole purpose of this strat is to build up to a single roach attack.
Lol, don't be so hurt.
It's still a "strategy," regardless of how bad it is.
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Any decent terran that was going 2 raxx would know if he saw the zerg going 1 base, to scout for a roach warren or baneling nest. Once the warren has been scouted, then double bunker on my ramp, and throw down an in-base OC or even 2. Repair accordingly, you're not breaking that. Grats, your economy is now shot to pieces.
Plus, even if the terran doesn't scout the warren (who would be bad, cause they know you're 1 base, can keep the scout alive, and then can always scan at the 4.15 mark), the double gas steal has to alert them to something.
Personally, if you're going roach rush, I prefer 3RR. More terrans freak out when they see the 9 pool and stop scouting then. Still stopped by anyone with a clue.
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On January 08 2011 07:28 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 07:18 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:
1. the rofl stomping of mediocre diamonds on any kind of innovation is just ridiculous. Also those guys telling you how they think the game has to be played annoy me.
2. Any winning strategy is valid. Drone pumping is macro cheese (hoping the opponent does not do a timing push, as scouting is always incomplete), so wtf.
3. Since i won't dedicate half of my spare time training starcraft, i'll probably never get higher than plat. So i am interested in strats which work at my level of play. If you only want diamond proof strats, just create a new forum/section.
Regarding the strat: i'll definitely try it. Cutting eco in order to do a push is not cheese. However you have to apply equal or more damage to your opponent.
Anybody just counting drones to weight a build is an idiot, regardless of league. It is a general principle, that you cut drones in order to do damage. However a good strat applies more damage to your opponent's eco than to yours ;-).
"not to be used in serious games" lololololol. A game should never be serious :-D
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and normally I wouldn't bother but since I'm still waiting for sc2 to reinstall I may as well tell you why you're bad. 1. Its cause the strats horrible. Someone posts a strat, people analyze it and give their opinions. The strat sucks and thus the comments look like they do. 2. "Drone pumping is macro cheese"...lol. The reason u dont get higher than plat probably isnt cause of lack of practice but cause all your ideas about the game are just wrong. You pump drones to have an econ to make units. The skill is being able to balance drone and army. If drone pumping is cheese then I suppose every single Zerg ever cheeses 90% of their games. 3. A higher level forum would be nice, yes. Then good players wouldn't have to see the eyesore that is a mythyasha strategy post. In this case you're sacrificing drone production to the point where your attack has to outright win or do huge damage, otherwise you lose. At that point I'm pretty sure its cheese.
to 1. A strat working in plat cannot be that bad. From the ladder i know, that low diamonds are not that much better.
to 2. Congrats to your insight. Your statement "pump drones to make units" really enlightened me. "90% Zerg play is cheese" => you got it: there is no cheese.
You are always balancing eco vs army. But if you figure out a weak timing window in your opponents build, you cut eco to exploit that weakness.
If the weakness exploited is early in the game, you call it "cheese", if it is exploited in late game you call it "serious play". The earlier in the game you try to exploit a weakness, the more likely it will be decisive or all-in-ish. However a lategame fail push is likely to end the game, it just takes some time until it is played out.
Ofc this strat is somewhat risky (its not all-in i think, as you will do significant damage pretty sure), anyway drone pumping can be risky too: How often do so-called macro zergs loose, because they overdroned ? they took too much risk hoping to get away with it. Looks quite cheesy to me, kind of eco all-in: if you get away with it, you basically have won, if not => loose.
to 3. You probably would not get access to a higher level forum if your major insight is "you need to pump drones in order to build units" ;-)
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". This build relies heavily on the element of surprise and is very much based on the 7 roach rush"
and by that you mean it's basicly the same, without ling speed if i see correctly, to be even more unstable and allin
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Oh god, I can sense the awkwardness and facepalms of all the people reading this :p
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Cool story OP. I can see this working on ladder against an opponent that doesn't know how to respond or never seen a double gas steal, but this is a one trick pony.
With no gas, there's nothing stopping terran from walling off with a bunch of bunkers at his ramp and camping with SCVs. Better yet, he can bunker rush you and contain you at your base. He won't be at an economic disadvantage even with the camping SCVs because of mules and constant SCV production while your economy is in the shit. And all those precious minerals used to make bunkers? Don't know if you heard, but bunkers are free in this game.
For protoss, if I get double gas stolen I'm immediately going to cannon rush you. And that shuts down your early aggression. Try the rush after being cannon contained and you'll be rolled. If you don't die to the cannon rush this will just become a standard PvZ game.
This is good for pumping out a bunch of fast wins on ladder if that's what you care about. I don't really care about just getting the wins but I do like a cheesy game every once in a while to mix up the pace. Maybe like 1 out of 10 games. I was recently demoted to platinum and would this strategy have worked on me? Yeah, probably for 1 game. I'm kinda bad at this game. But now that I know how to respond would it work on me again? Probably not.
EDIT: Schnullerbacke13, you seem to be either trolling or adamantly defending a shitty strategy. The mark of a good cheese is that it's hard to hold off. This is not that hard to hold off compared to other cheeses. You telegraph cheese so early with a double gas steal. And regardless of whether you go lings or roaches, terran and protoss can respond the exact same way.
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On January 08 2011 07:34 loveeholicce wrote:
@ Schnullerbacke13 : you really cnat simply just say drone production/scv production/probe production is cheese. like what subtleart said, your idea of starcraft is wrong to not produce up drones. You need economy to proudce units, make up grades, and research on skills. Your bascially just saying now is "make units with number of drones you have with." seriously? so if i build up 90 probes/drones/scvs and make them work for building units, is that cheesy? pfft.
Everybody knows that. This is bronze level knowledge. I really would apreciate a higher level forum now :-), this forum is full of muppets telling me "Hi, you know you need to build drones in order to get money, because units aren't for free".
Droning becomes cheese, whenever you have to "hope" that your opponents does not push right now (because you do not really know because of incomplete scouting). This is exactly the same as hoping your opponent does not see your hidden pylon, when cannon rushing.
Cutting drones at the right time to make a decisive push is "SubtleArt" :-D
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lol, that subtleart kid's raging and thinking he's amazing because he can probably beat this build is funny.
This build is crap, if someone sees two drones, it's just way too obvious that you're going to gas steal.... Also, what are you going to do about your opponent's scout, obviously they will see a pathetically low drone count/roach warren (depending on when they scouted).. I don't play toss, but for terran, one geyser will allow for marauders eventually... And bunkers also exist.
Also, don't post 2000+ platinum, only try to post a build when you're... say, a 2500+ that can back up the build... You are making yourself look like a fool
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On January 08 2011 06:55 Stropheum wrote:
There is no midgame when you have 13 drones mining minerals at the 7 minute mark
This. If this rush fails or doesn't do significant damage(by significant I mean killing a good number of workers, killing his rax/gateway/etc.) you will pretty much lose unless your opponent hands you the game with a big mistake at some point in the game. Terran just has to get 1-2 bunkers at their wall and not stop marine production. Toss will have a bit harder of a time but they could probably get a forge and 1-2 cannons down in time. Don't forget that taking the gas gives them more time to mine minerals meaning they can afford more bunkers/cannons than they normally would be able to at the 5 minute mark.
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Well its of use against Protoss at least, against Terran you simply get marine rushed ..
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On January 08 2011 07:50 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 07:28 SubtleArt wrote:On January 08 2011 07:18 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:
1. the rofl stomping of mediocre diamonds on any kind of innovation is just ridiculous. Also those guys telling you how they think the game has to be played annoy me.
2. Any winning strategy is valid. Drone pumping is macro cheese (hoping the opponent does not do a timing push, as scouting is always incomplete), so wtf.
3. Since i won't dedicate half of my spare time training starcraft, i'll probably never get higher than plat. So i am interested in strats which work at my level of play. If you only want diamond proof strats, just create a new forum/section.
Regarding the strat: i'll definitely try it. Cutting eco in order to do a push is not cheese. However you have to apply equal or more damage to your opponent.
Anybody just counting drones to weight a build is an idiot, regardless of league. It is a general principle, that you cut drones in order to do damage. However a good strat applies more damage to your opponent's eco than to yours ;-).
"not to be used in serious games" lololololol. A game should never be serious :-D
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about and normally I wouldn't bother but since I'm still waiting for sc2 to reinstall I may as well tell you why you're bad. 1. Its cause the strats horrible. Someone posts a strat, people analyze it and give their opinions. The strat sucks and thus the comments look like they do. 2. "Drone pumping is macro cheese"...lol. The reason u dont get higher than plat probably isnt cause of lack of practice but cause all your ideas about the game are just wrong. You pump drones to have an econ to make units. The skill is being able to balance drone and army. If drone pumping is cheese then I suppose every single Zerg ever cheeses 90% of their games. 3. A higher level forum would be nice, yes. Then good players wouldn't have to see the eyesore that is a mythyasha strategy post. Cutting eco in order to do a push is not cheese In this case you're sacrificing drone production to the point where your attack has to outright win or do huge damage, otherwise you lose. At that point I'm pretty sure its cheese. to 1. A strat working in plat cannot be that bad. From the ladder i know, that low diamonds are not that much better. to 2. Congrats to your insight. Your statement "pump drones to make units" really enlightened me. "90% Zerg play is cheese" => you got it: there is no cheese. You are always balancing eco vs army. But if you figure out a weak timing window in your opponents build, you cut eco to exploit that weakness. If the weakness exploited is early in the game, you call it "cheese", if it is exploited in late game you call it "serious play". The earlier in the game you try to exploit a weakness, the more likely it will be decisive or all-in-ish. However a lategame fail push is likely to end the game, it just takes some time until it is played out. Ofc this strat is somewhat risky (its not all-in i think, as you will do significant damage pretty sure), anyway drone pumping can be risky too: How often do so-called macro zergs loose, because they overdroned ? they took too much risk hoping to get away with it. Looks quite cheesy to me, kind of eco all-in: if you get away with it, you basically have won, if not => loose. to 3. You probably would not get access to a higher level forum if your major insight is "you need to pump drones in order to build units" ;-)
1. No platinum is a joke. Low diamonds are bad too but not as horrible. If you wanna go by iCCup low diamond is a D- and platinum is E to E-. yes, theyre that bad you just don;t realize it. the fact that this beats platinums is about as useful as me saying getting drunk before a spelling bee is a good idea because I can beat 5 year olds. No matter how shitty it is its always going to be overshadowed by how horrendous the competition is.
2. You're the one whos oversimplifying it. I'm just saying that you need lots of drones to be able to macro well and considering how bad zerg units are cost for cost you need more workers than the opponent. Zerg play is either go all in or make drones until you absolutely have to make units to hold off a push. If you make units too early, like I can guarentee you do judging by your statements then any competant player( competant not being a platinum obviously) will just expand behind a bunker and tanks and take his econ lead.
You also have the wrong idea for cheese, althogh the term all in is a little more clear. A cheese is just an attack with no reasonable followup. In the early game if you commit so much to an attack that its failure to outright win will leave you in a position where you can't have a decent follow through then its cheese. This attack leaves you with like 17 drones 6 minutes into the game, and thus its a cheese because you're guarenteed to be really behind if you fail. In the lategame when you have lots of bases, your tech up, lots of workers, an attack can't really be called a cheese because your options to follow through are much greater. Of course theres exceptions. In Sc1 TvP if i go 6 fact timing off 2 base and my push fails then im pretty much in a position where I can't recover vs a decent toss, and thus the attack is considered an all in.
As for the drone thing you can really take anything to an extreme. If i take my 3rd and make 60 drones under nothing but 12 speedlings then yes it can be called econ cheese but looking at more realistic examples no, its just how ur supposed to play Zerg because its units suck cost for cost. You really think pros who play for reputation and money drone whore only out of stubborn refusal to change the way they play?
3. Indeed, but it wasn't directed to the strat forum, it was directed to you, and when im speaking to a scrub that can't even make low diamond I gotta take it down to your level, you know?
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sorry I'm new to posting here and don't mean to sound like a dick, but it just makes me sad. Zerg is THE macro race, our units are cheap, not very cost effective, and we can make them by the truck loads once our econ gets up and running. Zerg is basicly meant to be platyed by having at least 1 base up on your oponent, and it just makes me so sad to see zergs that insist on consistantly going for 1 base attacks.
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Someone close this thread please, this is a strategy that does NOT work unless the opponent is blind and does not have any game sense. Also people are raging and OP is obv. not taking any advice/trolling.
Ex.
Scout at 11 -> see roach warren building, get double gas stolen.
*reaction*
toss down 2-3 bunkers, pump rines from 2-3 rax, keep 1-2 scv's there for repair.
Laugh in Zerg's face.
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Wow, i cant believe how many people read this non-sense joke build ROFL. @ Schnullerbacke13, so you think most of zerg users just prdouce drones when they go heavy econ? wow then guess again. They will eventually cut off between to macro a bit and then go back to their drones. Like SubtleArt said, zerg units are cost for cost, needed constantly produced. How are you gonna fulfill those units if you dont have good number of drones gathering resource?
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On January 08 2011 09:44 RoseTempest wrote:
Someone close this thread please, this is a strategy that does NOT work unless the opponent is blind and does not have any game sense. Also people are raging and OP is obv. not taking any advice/trolling.
Ex.
Scout at 11 -> see roach warren building, get double gas stolen.
*reaction*
toss down 2-3 bunkers, pump rines from 2-3 rax, keep 1-2 scv's there for repair.
Laugh in Zerg's face.
I have been waiting for this post to come up... :D thank you for stating the reality :D
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@SubtleArt: Had a losing streak?
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On January 08 2011 09:42 hunts wrote:
sorry I'm new to posting here and don't mean to sound like a dick, but it just makes me sad. Zerg is THE macro race, our units are cheap, not very cost effective, and we can make them by the truck loads once our econ gets up and running. Zerg is basicly meant to be platyed by having at least 1 base up on your oponent, and it just makes me so sad to see zergs that insist on consistantly going for 1 base attacks.
My friend just doesnt understand the term of "macro" and "drone production". The games he plays agaisnt me alawys come out to be less drones that he was suppose to have or not having enough unit counts. These kind of builds really set newcomers of SC2 to have a wrong ideaology of the game mechanics for different race.
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This build has been around a LOOOONNGG time (remember maybe 2 months ago when everyone 7RR'ed?). In fact this is almost the exact build the first Zerg Build Optimizer spit out for 7 roaches.
It still works, even in Mid-Diamond (where I am), especially on close position maps like Steppes of War, so it's "legit". It is pretty cheesy though, and there's no transition at all whatsoever. Either you win with it or just gg out since you will be very far behind unless you do MAJOR damage.
As Terran, you MUST build two bunkers to defend this. With Protoss, a combination of sentries stalkers, or canons will hold this, but you can't get too greedy. Any self respecting zerg who scouts will see what's happening and defend this easily.
Any decent player MIGHT get caught by this build once. Afterwards, it stops working (and hence why you don't see 7RR on ladder much anymore).
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On January 08 2011 09:44 RoseTempest wrote:
Someone close this thread please, this is a strategy that does NOT work unless the opponent is blind and does not have any game sense. Also people are raging and OP is obv. not taking any advice/trolling.
Ex.
Scout at 11 -> see roach warren building, get double gas stolen.
*reaction*
toss down 2-3 bunkers, pump rines from 2-3 rax, keep 1-2 scv's there for repair.
Laugh in Zerg's face.
You steal gas way before you build the roach warren (nice one)
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Why is SubtleArt still posting here? He's contributed nothing, and is just annoying.
Anyways, I feel like this has potential to catch people off guard, just like any other starcraft strategy.
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On January 08 2011 09:54 ToneBone wrote:
With Protoss, a combination of sentries stalkers, or canons will hold this, but you can't get too greedy.
Just curious as to how you get a combination of sentries and stalkers at 5 minutes after both of your gasses have been stolen?
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On January 08 2011 09:51 loveeholicce wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 09:42 hunts wrote:
sorry I'm new to posting here and don't mean to sound like a dick, but it just makes me sad. Zerg is THE macro race, our units are cheap, not very cost effective, and we can make them by the truck loads once our econ gets up and running. Zerg is basicly meant to be platyed by having at least 1 base up on your oponent, and it just makes me so sad to see zergs that insist on consistantly going for 1 base attacks. My friend just doesnt understand the term of "macro" and "drone production". The games he plays agaisnt me alawys come out to be less drones that he was suppose to have or not having enough unit counts. These kind of builds really set newcomers of SC2 to have a wrong ideaology of the game mechanics for different race.
this is pretty interesting coming from a scrub whos core build is 4 warpgate all in. Oh you're protoss its not like u can do anything else or play in any way that would warrant respect
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On January 08 2011 09:54 ToneBone wrote:
This build has been around a LOOOONNGG time (remember maybe 2 months ago when everyone 7RR'ed?). In fact this is almost the exact build the first Zerg Build Optimizer spit out for 7 roaches.
It still works, even in Mid-Diamond (where I am), especially on close position maps like Steppes of War, so it's "legit". It is pretty cheesy though, and there's no transition at all whatsoever. Either you win with it or just gg out since you will be very far behind unless you do MAJOR damage.
As Terran, you MUST build two bunkers to defend this. With Protoss, a combination of sentries stalkers, or canons will hold this, but you can't get too greedy. Any self respecting zerg who scouts will see what's happening and defend this easily.
Any decent player MIGHT get caught by this build once. Afterwards, it stops working (and hence why you don't see 7RR on ladder much anymore).
7RR is still in the ladder, but people know how to react to it now.
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all i have to say is.
if your in platnuim. and playing zerg. your better off working on your macro then trying to figure out new 1 base all in timings.
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On January 08 2011 10:00 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 09:51 loveeholicce wrote:On January 08 2011 09:42 hunts wrote:
sorry I'm new to posting here and don't mean to sound like a dick, but it just makes me sad. Zerg is THE macro race, our units are cheap, not very cost effective, and we can make them by the truck loads once our econ gets up and running. Zerg is basicly meant to be platyed by having at least 1 base up on your oponent, and it just makes me so sad to see zergs that insist on consistantly going for 1 base attacks. My friend just doesnt understand the term of "macro" and "drone production". The games he plays agaisnt me alawys come out to be less drones that he was suppose to have or not having enough unit counts. These kind of builds really set newcomers of SC2 to have a wrong ideaology of the game mechanics for different race. this is pretty interesting coming from a scrub whos core build is 4 warpgate all in. Oh you're protoss its not like u can do anything else or play in any way that would warrant respect
oh wait, sorry i go P/T  like i said. Go read my profile? GLEEEEEN :D
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On January 08 2011 09:59 rawk wrote:
Why is SubtleArt still posting here? He's contributed nothing, and is just annoying.
Anyways, I feel like this has potential to catch people off guard, just like any other starcraft strategy.
He is contributing alright. He is teaching my friend/ his friend not to play like a noob and actually understand the mechanics of the zerg. I wouldn't really talk garbage if i were you...
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On January 08 2011 06:52 mythyasha wrote:
Note to readers SubtleArt lost to this build.
i lol'd
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ye i do this build for my opener and expand/lair or speed depending on the match up :D and im in plat :D been trying other builds and lost loads and now im back to using this build oh btw it also works against zerg but you need to scout early with the drone so you know not to make roaches and make lings instead incase of a 6 pool
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On January 08 2011 09:59 SubtleArt wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 09:44 RoseTempest wrote:
Someone close this thread please, this is a strategy that does NOT work unless the opponent is blind and does not have any game sense. Also people are raging and OP is obv. not taking any advice/trolling.
Ex.
Scout at 11 -> see roach warren building, get double gas stolen.
*reaction*
toss down 2-3 bunkers, pump rines from 2-3 rax, keep 1-2 scv's there for repair.
Laugh in Zerg's face.
You steal gas way before you build the roach warren (nice one)
Are you trying to troll?
I send my first scout as my first supply finishes, according to OP, gas steal is around 10/11. Thus, I get both my gas' stolen, and by the time I get to his base, I see a warren building, is there anything wrong with that?
Sorry if i posted it in the wrong order i guess...
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7 RR is all-in, this is an even more all-in version of that build. Your success with this build will last until you play the same person again or they scout.
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On January 08 2011 06:56 1Eris1 wrote:
Since when are roaches the counter to marines? Marines have always beaten them cost for cost. And roaches are only good against pure zealots, add in stalkers and it's alot more even
SublteArt is the only guy that knows what's going on here. You must be in copper league. Roaches are great against marines. They have over twice the health, and are only 75 mins 25 gas. You are saying that 1.5 marines can kill a roach. Let's say 2 just to make it even. Roach still wins. And you need 25 gas for a tech lab if you plan on getting stim and 100 gas and 100 mins for the stim just to fight the roach and even more mins and gas for marine shield. So go learn how to play starcraft, and don't put peoples builds down saying stupid shit like this.
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EPT
