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On January 08 2011 02:52 G_Wen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 02:00 Xswordy wrote:
Noob question. Why is such a big event like GSL using blizzard maps? Like , can't they just use custom maps however they want? Because pros ladder on the blizzard ladder. The maps are official and that's half the story right there. I think the other half is because Blizzard gave GOM exclusive rights to SC2 so they have to use their maps. I'm not too sure about the latter point (someone with more experience please confirm/correct) but the first point is a huge factor. Laddering is an easy way to practice against people who are roughly your skill level. If the maps you're laddering on aren't the maps you're going to be playing in the tournament it's not very helpful since your strategies changed based on the map.
I remember it got brought up in the season 3 qualifier live thread (I think that's where it was) and a GOM official was posting in there. They use the ladder maps because these tournaments are designed to be easily accessible to amateur players that are not on a team or clan. Using ladder maps ensures that people can have enough practice to compete with pros, where if it was only custom maps the teams would stay practicing only with each other.
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On January 08 2011 01:33 Callous wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 00:58 CherubDown wrote:On January 08 2011 00:56 Lexpar wrote:
Can we entertain the idea that maybe SC2 is getting big enough in the foreigner scene that we don't even need Korea? Agreed. Korea is one country. Let's establish "ourselves", and they can join the bandwagon whenever they feel the need. I don't believe this is really an SC2 esports issue at all. SC2 is hella popular and I don't see that going away anytime soon. If it can't even survive in Korea, it has no hope in other countries. It'll just be like every other game and have small tournies that'll be forgotten in the months to pass. The level of BW in Korea is so much higher than any other game, and there's no way SC2 can achieve that in any country, unless it's Korea. The fact that it's "hella popular" doesn't mean anything in the pro scene when the maps are awful and the game itself is broken.
The game is not broken, and the pro scene is alive and growing. Not sure what you're talking about.
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On January 08 2011 01:54 don_kyuhote wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 01:46 optical630 wrote:On January 08 2011 01:05 shadymmj wrote:
I don't even see the need for it to "survive". All SC2 has to do is to sell, and I'd say it's doing pretty well. For those who still have not figured it out, Blizzard is milking you, period. They had 10 years to produce SC2, come up with ideas, improve on BW, and they've given us a half-assed game. By half-assed I mean they haven't even managed to come up with most of the story, threw about 12 filler missions into the singleplayer so it wouldn't be so short, screwed up BNET2 and we still don't know our real rating.
However, they've done a pretty good job at attracting the casual playerbase. The story, however shallow, will satisfy most people, and the graphics are shiny and all. And that is what matters - the game sells, and will continue to sell.
We should NOT have to fork out more cash to have a "complete" game. It's just bullshit. They've had 10 years to make it complete. I'm tired of waiting for the competitive aspect of the game to grow. In fact, whether SC2 has a scene or not is nearly irrelevant, because SC2 was not designed to be a competitive RTS for the general public. Not every RTS has to be competitive. Don't agree? Well, what's your rating, then? actually they designed it to be a competetive esports, they said this themselves Well then. Assuming that we all are not satisfied with current state of the gameplay, I guess this means that either Blizzard: 1. half-assed SC2 2. Fully tried, but were incompetent. 3. Intended the game to be what it should be only after the last expansion, so they can get shit ton of money by selling 2 half-assed games(WoL and HotS). I think most SC2 fans are hopes it's option 3 and not 1 or 2.
I disagree with 3, but somewhat agree with 1 and 2, though I personally would use a less harsh wording.
SC2's production timeline was NOT 10 years. It didn't start development until after they finished WC3, and even then it was only worked on by a small skeleton development crew. Most of Blizzard's resources then were focused on releasing WoW, so the skeleton crew was only able to come up with an extremely primitive version of the current game engine. Real development didn't start until between '05 to '07, and even then the game was WAY different from what we have now. Thus, I think it is safer to say that the game has had a much shorter production cycle than people realize. I think there is a Dustin Browder interview somewhere that describes the development cycle in great detail.
Even then, if you look at the pre-release videos going back to the announcement, there were a TON of things that Blizzard changed around. The graphics were overhauled for every race during development, especially on certain Terran buildings and the entire Zerg faction. A ton of units and upgrades were introduced, implemented, then scrapped. I think it's unfair to say that Blizzard is purposely holding back their game considering how many ideas they've thrown out only to scrap them. BW was a delicate masterpiece, and I don't think anybody can come up with a clear way of succeeding and improving it without angering BW veterans.
As far as 3 goes, I think they would have released expansions no matter how "complete" the game was. I think there are basically several scenarios:
1. Blizzard releases SC2 in 2010 with conventional three 10 mission campaigns, and incomplete Bnet 2.0, and with the same multiplayer we have now. An expansion would've still been developed to flesh out the multiplayer and add to the campaign, a la in a BW fashion. Unfortunately, the story will have to be told conventionally and may lack the presentation that WoL has.
2. Blizzard releases SC2 after many delays in year 20XX. Bnet 2.0 might be better fleshed out. The campaign might be epic three 30 mission campaigns. However, there is no guarantee that the multiplayer will be perfect. It might be better than what we have now, but people will still complain about map pool, lack of certain BW units, and the improvements in basic mechanics. Unless the multiplayer is flawless, they will have to release an expansion to fill in any gaps in unit composition that was revealed after extensive public testing.
4. Blizzard releases SC2 in 201X after some delays involving Bnet 2.0. The single player is pretty much the same as what we have now. The multiplayer might be tweaked but is essentially the same to what we currently have. There may be less rage over Bnet, but there will still be complaints in the lack of unit composition.
3. Blizzard releases SC2 in 2010 with one 30 mission campaign, incomplete Bnet 2.0, and the current multiplayer situation. Obviously, this is the scenario that they went with, and IMO it has several advantages over the other scenarios. The multiplayer was basically finished, though with some questionable unit variety for the Zerg. Even if they spent many more years developing the multiplayer, there is no guarantee that it will succeed as an e-sport until it is actually in the hands of progamers and tournaments and receiving feedback from the metagame that develops in the pro scene.
Though money might factor into their decisions, I think the biggest reason for SC2's current development cycle is that, aside from Bnet, they essentially had a finished, polished yet slightly imperfect game that could not get any better without public input. Without the public complaining about unit variety, the map pool, and the campaign in the released game, Blizzard would've continued to develop the game in a blind direction. Now that they have proper feedback and gameplay from us forum-goers, they at least have a bearings on their proper priorities.
IMO, SC1 kinda sucks without BW expansion, comparatively. Hopefully, the same can be said for SC2 and whatever expansions come out for it.
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the only thing i can say is LOL . if you think SC1 will last much longer in korea you´re wrong. i´m 24 and i have SC1 , i bought with 11 or 12 yrs old and never played multiplayer in there .
The thing is , do you think young people will go to SC1 now because its a big esport? im talking about koreans , europeans , americans , everybody. The answer is no , do you know why ?
Because whatching broodwar makes my eyes bleed , im 24 , imagine a 14 to 18 yr old kid that is used to HD, they are the ones that will play starcraft2 for 10 years , not 25 or 30 years old who shouldnt be gaming and should be working to support or have a family .
And i don´t agree that if SC2 in Korea fails ,it fails as an e-sport , outside Korea theres lots of potential , if you get paid like in GSL , you can do GSL on any country , because it will atract lots of people ,lots of viewers and lots of sponsors.
im sorry if i hurt somebody feelings about graphics , but do you know why most korean wear glasses? because of that 640X480 resolution...........
User was temp banned for this post.
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On January 08 2011 03:09 tapk69 wrote:
the only thing i can say is LOL . if you think SC1 will last much longer in korea you´re wrong. i´m 24 and i have SC1 , i bought with 11 or 12 yrs old and never played multiplayer in there .
The thing is , do you think young people will go to SC1 now because its a big esport? im talking about koreans , europeans , americans , everybody. The answer is no , do you know why ?
Because whatching broodwar makes my eyes bleed , im 24 , imagine a 14 to 18 yr old kid that is used to HD, they are the ones that will play starcraft2 for 10 years , not 25 or 30 years old who shouldnt be gaming and should be working to support or have a family .
And i don´t agree that if SC2 in Korea fails ,it fails as an e-sport , outside Korea theres lots of potential , if you get paid like in GSL , you can do GSL on any country , because it will atract lots of people ,lots of viewers and lots of sponsors.
im sorry if i hurt somebody feelings about graphics , but do you know why most korean wear glasses? because of that 640X480 resolution...........
What the fuck is this ignorant, racist horseshit.
Congratulations on never playing BW multiplayer and then talking like you know something about it.
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wait til expansions and new units and maps
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Also, I attribute the small GSL audience mainly to lack of advertising and the fact that GOMtv has no presence on actual TV. It's not that people don't want to see GSL. Instead, they probably just don't really know about it in detail, probably due to a somewhat complicated bracket system and the lack of advertising.
The opening ceremony would've been much better if they had BoxeR, NaDa, JulyZerg and friends playing instead of the relative unknowns that played. Most people don't go for the game but for the players, and a small audience is to be expected if the players are complete unknowns.
Given the factors that are limiting SC2's exposure in Korea, I don't think anyone should worry about GSL. It's still experiencing a steady growth, though people are just overestimating this growth.
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On January 08 2011 03:09 tapk69 wrote:
the only thing i can say is LOL . if you think SC1 will last much longer in korea you´re wrong. i´m 24 and i have SC1 , i bought with 11 or 12 yrs old and never played multiplayer in there .
The thing is , do you think young people will go to SC1 now because its a big esport? im talking about koreans , europeans , americans , everybody. The answer is no , do you know why ?
Because whatching broodwar makes my eyes bleed , im 24 , imagine a 14 to 18 yr old kid that is used to HD, they are the ones that will play starcraft2 for 10 years , not 25 or 30 years old who shouldnt be gaming and should be working to support or have a family .
And i don´t agree that if SC2 in Korea fails ,it fails as an e-sport , outside Korea theres lots of potential , if you get paid like in GSL , you can do GSL on any country , because it will atract lots of people ,lots of viewers and lots of sponsors.
im sorry if i hurt somebody feelings about graphics , but do you know why most korean wear glasses? because of that 640X480 resolution...........
Tell that to the organisers of CPL. They did it and still failed and the prize money pool was bigger than GSL or at least equal.
You need a good game first which is easy to learn but hard to master. Which is a trait of Blizzard games (read Blizzard not activision blizzard) in general.
BW is probably the perfect example of this alongside with other factors such as the history of some players which popularized the game.
SC2 simply doesn't have all the above mentioned and probably will not.
Giving it time will make fans able to pick a player/team in due time but it will not reach the same peak that BW had. There are new genres of games nowadays (WoW anyone?) which also affects the success of a game like SC2.
A good start for GOM is to start a teamleague that spans not over 1 week but over several months at the least. The fans will get used to the teams and the players and be able to pick sides and boost the success of the esports scene and the individual leagues. Individual leagues are nice and all but a long team league is more important for a game like sc2.
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Get better/bigger maps.
Get broadcast on TV.
If GOM does these two things, the future of SC2 in Korea is assured.
Otherwise, it will probably continue for a good long while, but won't get nearly as big as BW. Which would really be a shame.
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On January 08 2011 03:09 tapk69 wrote:
the only thing i can say is LOL . if you think SC1 will last much longer in korea you´re wrong. i´m 24 and i have SC1 , i bought with 11 or 12 yrs old and never played multiplayer in there .
The thing is , do you think young people will go to SC1 now because its a big esport? im talking about koreans , europeans , americans , everybody. The answer is no , do you know why ?
Because whatching broodwar makes my eyes bleed , im 24 , imagine a 14 to 18 yr old kid that is used to HD, they are the ones that will play starcraft2 for 10 years , not 25 or 30 years old who shouldnt be gaming and should be working to support or have a family .
And i don´t agree that if SC2 in Korea fails ,it fails as an e-sport , outside Korea theres lots of potential , if you get paid like in GSL , you can do GSL on any country , because it will atract lots of people ,lots of viewers and lots of sponsors.
im sorry if i hurt somebody feelings about graphics , but do you know why most korean wear glasses? because of that 640X480 resolution...........
this is one of the dumbest posts i've ever seen on tl
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On January 08 2011 03:20 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 03:09 tapk69 wrote:
the only thing i can say is LOL . if you think SC1 will last much longer in korea you´re wrong. i´m 24 and i have SC1 , i bought with 11 or 12 yrs old and never played multiplayer in there .
The thing is , do you think young people will go to SC1 now because its a big esport? im talking about koreans , europeans , americans , everybody. The answer is no , do you know why ?
Because whatching broodwar makes my eyes bleed , im 24 , imagine a 14 to 18 yr old kid that is used to HD, they are the ones that will play starcraft2 for 10 years , not 25 or 30 years old who shouldnt be gaming and should be working to support or have a family .
And i don´t agree that if SC2 in Korea fails ,it fails as an e-sport , outside Korea theres lots of potential , if you get paid like in GSL , you can do GSL on any country , because it will atract lots of people ,lots of viewers and lots of sponsors.
im sorry if i hurt somebody feelings about graphics , but do you know why most korean wear glasses? because of that 640X480 resolution........... What the fuck is this ignorant, racist horseshit. Congratulations on never playing BW multiplayer and then talking like you know something about it.
He's completely right.
Young kids won't buy a 12 year old game, because frankly, it looks like shit compared to new releases. I have never played BW seriously and I'm sure the balance and strategic depth is all you make it out to be, but if you think you're gonna be able to fascinate teenagers with that stuff you're direly mistaken.
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To add my (by now probably) pointless opinion to this discussion:
-SC2 has not even been out for a full year yet. It's been better received than other Blizzard products from the last decade (WoW failed horribly in South Korea due to Blizzard fucking themselves over with the PC Bangs and everybody else, not to mention the game not working on the SK MMO market at all anyways) and in some sense I'm glad enough there even IS a progaming scene for SC2 in SK, seeing how the initial sales numbers indicated that it'd be a niche within a niche.
-Of course SCBW tourneys have been big and are still big. It's the bigger scene, no matter how you look at it. People like BoxeR do the SC2 scene some good though, since he's a known eSports figure and helps the public recognition of the game.
-The quality of the games itself is a whole different problem, that always has to do with "The scene is still new, not everything is standardized" etc. - remember when somebody suddenly came up with the ingenious strategy of splitting your marines to counter mass banelings? Stuff like that is going to keep on happening within this year. Maps are getting stale and are an issue by itself, but that's an issue where the system (of map making) was deliberately broken from the beginning on by Blizz. So what now? Either stop scaring the mapmakers with useless bullshit like "You can make a map but everybody can steal it and just reupload it in another territory and if it gets popular there the thief will get cash and you'll just sit on your map lolol" and encourage them to make great SC2 maps or stop throwing in the god damn map editor at all.
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Ok, did anyone expect it to be as big as Korean BW right when the game was released? Why don't we compare the numbers at the current SC2 tournaments to the original tournaments in Korea for BW, within its first half year of release. I'm sure it'd be an astronomical difference. SC2 is off to such a good start. Does anyone have numbers to compare the attendance of the first three GSLs compared to this one?
Another point is, part of why the Koreans love BW so much is the drama. BW has so many rivalries and grudge matches that it'd be tough to count them all. SC2 has nothing like this yet, we don't know what players will be around in another half year. We'll all probably look back at this first Code S tournament and wonder how anyone even could bear to watch it until the Round of 8.
My main point is we can't compare a game that has over 10 years of history with a game that hasn't even been out a year. Give it time, guys, give it time.
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On January 08 2011 03:32 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 03:20 bonifaceviii wrote:On January 08 2011 03:09 tapk69 wrote:
the only thing i can say is LOL . if you think SC1 will last much longer in korea you´re wrong. i´m 24 and i have SC1 , i bought with 11 or 12 yrs old and never played multiplayer in there .
The thing is , do you think young people will go to SC1 now because its a big esport? im talking about koreans , europeans , americans , everybody. The answer is no , do you know why ?
Because whatching broodwar makes my eyes bleed , im 24 , imagine a 14 to 18 yr old kid that is used to HD, they are the ones that will play starcraft2 for 10 years , not 25 or 30 years old who shouldnt be gaming and should be working to support or have a family .
And i don´t agree that if SC2 in Korea fails ,it fails as an e-sport , outside Korea theres lots of potential , if you get paid like in GSL , you can do GSL on any country , because it will atract lots of people ,lots of viewers and lots of sponsors.
im sorry if i hurt somebody feelings about graphics , but do you know why most korean wear glasses? because of that 640X480 resolution........... What the fuck is this ignorant, racist horseshit. Congratulations on never playing BW multiplayer and then talking like you know something about it. He's completely right. Young kids won't buy a 12 year old game, because frankly, it looks like shit compared to new releases. I have never played BW seriously and I'm sure the balance and strategic depth is all you make it out to be, but if you think you're gonna be able to fascinate teenagers with that stuff you're direly mistaken.
On January 07 2011 10:04 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 09:52 YerknYass wrote:
The NBA, chess, the NFL etc. all have new generations of fans every year. They are pastimes that are not relient on any form of technology (say what you will about new fangled Nike shoes). Because of Broodwar's technological requirements, the lack of evolution in areas outside of the near perfect balance that makes the game amazing will never progress and help reach out to new fanbases. People are caddy, they are attracted to the newer, nicer looking things. In the West, at the very least, people need to learn to support SCII. Instead of declaring things as black and white, good and bad, sack up instead and work to shape this new, well funded, huge-american-conglomerate backed game into the sport that we all want it to be. i'd actually say that the technological requirements for BW is so low that it's pretty much universal. This actually helps bring new generations of fans, simply because it's much more accessible. I recently hosted a BW tournament at the middle school I teach at. Had an 8 team, single elimination tourney where each match consisted of 4 simultaneous games, 2 1v1's, 1 2v2 and 1 1v1 Ace worth 2 points. We played in the school computer lab which had absolutely shit computers. And for the week and a half we did this, we literally had 100 kids stuffed in a 36 capacity room climbing all over each other to watch this. And these kids were not dedicated professionals or even close. They were D- level players. And for the Championship game, the head of the English department ordered me to have it broadcast on school television and to announce it. Her idea, not mine. This was a logistical nightmare, but eventually me and two kids I recruited to be announcers broadcast these games (in English, the only saving educational value), and the whole school watched. For two hours. ANd it was shitty, shitty play... but the kids loved it. Not just those who played, but the 15 year old girls who don't give a shit about games still got behind their classmates and cheered for them. This type of accessibility is not available for SC2 right now. IN fact, SC2 has gone out of its way to make it ridiculously difficult to have these kinds of events. So don't be surprised if professional BW continues to propagate new generations of fans every year: the excellence of the gameplay + its accessibility will outweigh, in the long run, any sort of shiny new graphics. If SC2 wants what BW has, they need to make sure their game is up to the exacting standards of a competitive BW match... and they need to try to be more inclusive. Not everyone has top notch graphic cards and computers these days, especially outside the US
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its because broodwars a better game, if you disagree, you havent played it
its my understanding that to a trained professional, bw is still fairly mechanically demanding and the better player tends to win, but sc2 usually results in BO losses
i would say also the spells in sc2 arent quite OP enough for the most part, so they dont get seen as often and the games turn out more bland
oh and the post above me quotes a brilliant one, would have loved to have seen it
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I think its a task that all of us has to play a part to help out.
We have to support GOM for hosting GSL, in order for sc2 to still be alive in Korea.
The players have to put up some interesting and captivating gameplays to catch more and more spectators.(Not shit like bitbybitprime)
We need to realise that SC2's korea support is peanuts compared to SC:BW so we can't expect 40k spectators to be there at GSL4 finals.
We gotta start slowly, step by step.
If all else fails, dont ever forget 1 thing. The World Wide 'Foreigner' count is HUGE. We CAN survive without SC2 in korea. MLG and Dreamhack was very successful imo. We need to realise that if sc2 fails in korea, we can still be up and running due to the sheer amount of people who are buying sc2 thanks to youtube promoting e-sports. Husky/HD/Day9.
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On January 08 2011 03:09 tapk69 wrote:
the only thing i can say is LOL . if you think SC1 will last much longer in korea you´re wrong. i´m 24 and i have SC1 , i bought with 11 or 12 yrs old and never played multiplayer in there .
The thing is , do you think young people will go to SC1 now because its a big esport? im talking about koreans , europeans , americans , everybody. The answer is no , do you know why ?
Because whatching broodwar makes my eyes bleed , im 24 , imagine a 14 to 18 yr old kid that is used to HD, they are the ones that will play starcraft2 for 10 years , not 25 or 30 years old who shouldnt be gaming and should be working to support or have a family .
And i don´t agree that if SC2 in Korea fails ,it fails as an e-sport , outside Korea theres lots of potential , if you get paid like in GSL , you can do GSL on any country , because it will atract lots of people ,lots of viewers and lots of sponsors.
im sorry if i hurt somebody feelings about graphics , but do you know why most korean wear glasses? because of that 640X480 resolution...........
This is the stupidest thing I've read all day.
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On January 08 2011 03:36 d_so wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 03:32 ChickenLips wrote:On January 08 2011 03:20 bonifaceviii wrote:On January 08 2011 03:09 tapk69 wrote:
the only thing i can say is LOL . if you think SC1 will last much longer in korea you´re wrong. i´m 24 and i have SC1 , i bought with 11 or 12 yrs old and never played multiplayer in there .
The thing is , do you think young people will go to SC1 now because its a big esport? im talking about koreans , europeans , americans , everybody. The answer is no , do you know why ?
Because whatching broodwar makes my eyes bleed , im 24 , imagine a 14 to 18 yr old kid that is used to HD, they are the ones that will play starcraft2 for 10 years , not 25 or 30 years old who shouldnt be gaming and should be working to support or have a family .
And i don´t agree that if SC2 in Korea fails ,it fails as an e-sport , outside Korea theres lots of potential , if you get paid like in GSL , you can do GSL on any country , because it will atract lots of people ,lots of viewers and lots of sponsors.
im sorry if i hurt somebody feelings about graphics , but do you know why most korean wear glasses? because of that 640X480 resolution........... What the fuck is this ignorant, racist horseshit. Congratulations on never playing BW multiplayer and then talking like you know something about it. He's completely right. Young kids won't buy a 12 year old game, because frankly, it looks like shit compared to new releases. I have never played BW seriously and I'm sure the balance and strategic depth is all you make it out to be, but if you think you're gonna be able to fascinate teenagers with that stuff you're direly mistaken. Show nested quote +On January 07 2011 10:04 d_so wrote:On January 07 2011 09:52 YerknYass wrote:
The NBA, chess, the NFL etc. all have new generations of fans every year. They are pastimes that are not relient on any form of technology (say what you will about new fangled Nike shoes). Because of Broodwar's technological requirements, the lack of evolution in areas outside of the near perfect balance that makes the game amazing will never progress and help reach out to new fanbases. People are caddy, they are attracted to the newer, nicer looking things. In the West, at the very least, people need to learn to support SCII. Instead of declaring things as black and white, good and bad, sack up instead and work to shape this new, well funded, huge-american-conglomerate backed game into the sport that we all want it to be. i'd actually say that the technological requirements for BW is so low that it's pretty much universal. This actually helps bring new generations of fans, simply because it's much more accessible. I recently hosted a BW tournament at the middle school I teach at. Had an 8 team, single elimination tourney where each match consisted of 4 simultaneous games, 2 1v1's, 1 2v2 and 1 1v1 Ace worth 2 points. We played in the school computer lab which had absolutely shit computers. And for the week and a half we did this, we literally had 100 kids stuffed in a 36 capacity room climbing all over each other to watch this. And these kids were not dedicated professionals or even close. They were D- level players. And for the Championship game, the head of the English department ordered me to have it broadcast on school television and to announce it. Her idea, not mine. This was a logistical nightmare, but eventually me and two kids I recruited to be announcers broadcast these games (in English, the only saving educational value), and the whole school watched. For two hours. ANd it was shitty, shitty play... but the kids loved it. Not just those who played, but the 15 year old girls who don't give a shit about games still got behind their classmates and cheered for them. This type of accessibility is not available for SC2 right now. IN fact, SC2 has gone out of its way to make it ridiculously difficult to have these kinds of events. So don't be surprised if professional BW continues to propagate new generations of fans every year: the excellence of the gameplay + its accessibility will outweigh, in the long run, any sort of shiny new graphics. If SC2 wants what BW has, they need to make sure their game is up to the exacting standards of a competitive BW match... and they need to try to be more inclusive. Not everyone has top notch graphic cards and computers these days, especially outside the US
This proves nothing. Sales numbers for SC:BW amongst teenagers would be a compelling argument. I can't prove nor disprove what the guy experienced at his school and what the circumstances for that event were. Sure it sounds nice but it's just 'hearsay' and doesn't bode very well in an actual discussion.
But I'm not gonna argue against BW, too many hardcore fans on these forums and I don't really care for the game. I think it's stupid they're doing all this exclusivity bullshit with sc2 they should try to spread it as much as possible. (and allow me to sign onto KR so I can steal all the BOs from the top pros x)
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On January 08 2011 03:43 ChickenLips wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2011 03:36 d_so wrote:On January 08 2011 03:32 ChickenLips wrote:On January 08 2011 03:20 bonifaceviii wrote:On January 08 2011 03:09 tapk69 wrote:
the only thing i can say is LOL . if you think SC1 will last much longer in korea you´re wrong. i´m 24 and i have SC1 , i bought with 11 or 12 yrs old and never played multiplayer in there .
The thing is , do you think young people will go to SC1 now because its a big esport? im talking about koreans , europeans , americans , everybody. The answer is no , do you know why ?
Because whatching broodwar makes my eyes bleed , im 24 , imagine a 14 to 18 yr old kid that is used to HD, they are the ones that will play starcraft2 for 10 years , not 25 or 30 years old who shouldnt be gaming and should be working to support or have a family .
And i don´t agree that if SC2 in Korea fails ,it fails as an e-sport , outside Korea theres lots of potential , if you get paid like in GSL , you can do GSL on any country , because it will atract lots of people ,lots of viewers and lots of sponsors.
im sorry if i hurt somebody feelings about graphics , but do you know why most korean wear glasses? because of that 640X480 resolution........... What the fuck is this ignorant, racist horseshit. Congratulations on never playing BW multiplayer and then talking like you know something about it. He's completely right. Young kids won't buy a 12 year old game, because frankly, it looks like shit compared to new releases. I have never played BW seriously and I'm sure the balance and strategic depth is all you make it out to be, but if you think you're gonna be able to fascinate teenagers with that stuff you're direly mistaken. On January 07 2011 10:04 d_so wrote:On January 07 2011 09:52 YerknYass wrote:
The NBA, chess, the NFL etc. all have new generations of fans every year. They are pastimes that are not relient on any form of technology (say what you will about new fangled Nike shoes). Because of Broodwar's technological requirements, the lack of evolution in areas outside of the near perfect balance that makes the game amazing will never progress and help reach out to new fanbases. People are caddy, they are attracted to the newer, nicer looking things. In the West, at the very least, people need to learn to support SCII. Instead of declaring things as black and white, good and bad, sack up instead and work to shape this new, well funded, huge-american-conglomerate backed game into the sport that we all want it to be. i'd actually say that the technological requirements for BW is so low that it's pretty much universal. This actually helps bring new generations of fans, simply because it's much more accessible. I recently hosted a BW tournament at the middle school I teach at. Had an 8 team, single elimination tourney where each match consisted of 4 simultaneous games, 2 1v1's, 1 2v2 and 1 1v1 Ace worth 2 points. We played in the school computer lab which had absolutely shit computers. And for the week and a half we did this, we literally had 100 kids stuffed in a 36 capacity room climbing all over each other to watch this. And these kids were not dedicated professionals or even close. They were D- level players. And for the Championship game, the head of the English department ordered me to have it broadcast on school television and to announce it. Her idea, not mine. This was a logistical nightmare, but eventually me and two kids I recruited to be announcers broadcast these games (in English, the only saving educational value), and the whole school watched. For two hours. ANd it was shitty, shitty play... but the kids loved it. Not just those who played, but the 15 year old girls who don't give a shit about games still got behind their classmates and cheered for them. This type of accessibility is not available for SC2 right now. IN fact, SC2 has gone out of its way to make it ridiculously difficult to have these kinds of events. So don't be surprised if professional BW continues to propagate new generations of fans every year: the excellence of the gameplay + its accessibility will outweigh, in the long run, any sort of shiny new graphics. If SC2 wants what BW has, they need to make sure their game is up to the exacting standards of a competitive BW match... and they need to try to be more inclusive. Not everyone has top notch graphic cards and computers these days, especially outside the US This proves nothing. Sales numbers for SC:BW amongst teenagers would be a compelling argument. I can't prove nor disprove what the guy experienced at his school and what the circumstances for that event were. Sure it sounds nice but it's just 'hearsay' and doesn't bode very well in an actual discussion. But I'm not gonna argue against BW, too many hardcore fans on these forums and I don't really care for the game. I think it's stupid they're doing all this exclusivity bullshit with sc2 they should try to spread it as much as possible.
mmm.. sorry but no one buys BW anymore (since it's free). Not that it matters. the money in professional BW comes from the viewing audience + the advertising revenue it generates, not from game sales.
o and btw: this was was my experience. From a month ago. I blogged about it a few times, though I didn't detail the championship process in my blog (strictly cuz it drained me so much and I never got around to it)
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EPT![[image loading]](http://seoulspace.co.kr/en/files/2010/12/2009-final.jpeg)
