meh...

tired of these BW is better than SC2 threads, can we just stop already? Balance is one thing but I hate how we keep comparing the two games. SC2 is a different game and should be balanced differently from BW, making it the same on a new engine with new AI and features won't make it better. Some say that SC2 has devolved, I think it's evolved from a clunky game that required too much emphasis on APM and is now a game about thinking and out smarting your opponent because less work is involved on your hands. I'm sorry but I don't want to play a game that induces carpel tunnel.

Besides, Toss has an AOE just like terran and zerg does. Toss might have the best AOE, but terran and zerg benefit more from unit clumping. Controlling mass amounts of lings in BW was a nightmare and marine clumping has made marines even more powerful, so in the end I believe it's all balanced.

StarStruck

25339 Posts

December 29 2010 01:54 GMT

#123

No, if I were to summarize what he said in one sentence it would look like this:

- SC2 smartcasting makes the game boring to watch and he's uses BW as a reference point.

Unfortunately, we know what to expect when that happens.

Release the hounds.

Senx

Sweden5901 Posts

December 29 2010 01:54 GMT

#124

On December 29 2010 10:50 Kennigit wrote:
We've been talking about this since 2007. We've written articles all about it. It will NEVER change. EVER. Just leave it alone imo.

Shouldn't this be locked? This discussion is just a repeat of the thousands of thread pages we burnt through during beta.

OutlaW-

Czech Republic5053 Posts

December 29 2010 01:56 GMT

#125

everyone who argues for storm being smartcasted is a retard imo
you want starcraft to have lower skill ceiling so that its easier to play and its easier for good players to lose ?

User was temp banned for this post.

Kipsate

Netherlands45349 Posts

December 29 2010 01:57 GMT

#126

The thing is,there are other things which can just be easily changed aswell now can't we?

No multitargetting of buildings
No infinite controlgroups(1a,2a,3a,4a)
No smartcasting
No overkill(Think siege tanks)

It is a different game, however it is hard to see if a skill ''cap'' is incredibly high atm in SC2, because nothing is IMO as impressive as ive seen in BW, people usually make the argument that BW has existed for years and SC2 for only a couple months. However SC2 has recieved much more attention then BW and people have sought for micro like Mutalisk balling etc, so far nothing has been really discovered. The max amount of wow I got was out of forcefielding or Fakeboxer his marine spread, which is IMO not nearly as impressive as anything I see in BW. Hopefully such things as Muta micro etc will be discovered in the future to make things more exciting. Now I'm not hating on SC2 atm, its a great game,

Changing the very fundemental mechanics of SC2 is not the way to make the game more skill-like. Also be mindfull that (yes money talks) that SC2 is way more marketed to casuals rather then to the hardcore people. BW was incredibly hard to play and virtually impossible to master, compared to SC2 which is easier to play yet also virtually impossible(I assume) to master.
Things should stay the same and SC2 should pave their own way rather then be compared to BW on every step it takes.

revenir

Malaysia7 Posts

December 29 2010 01:59 GMT

#127

On December 29 2010 10:47 LSB wrote:

Show nested quote +

How about we give swimmers super awesome suits that increase buoyancy so they can swim faster!
Oh wait... We don't do that.

The reason why your examples don't work is because running is running. Biking is Biking.

Smart casting is like bringing a bike to a cross country race. It magnifies the effects of a spell.

And SC2 is SC2, not SCBW.

Using your analogy, putting Smart Casting in SCBW would be like bringing a bike to a cross country race. Removing Smart Casting from SC2 is like running in a biking competition (impressive, but so not the point of a biking competition).

Herculix

United States946 Posts

December 29 2010 01:59 GMT

#128

On December 29 2010 10:45 -orb- wrote:
In my opinion they should just make it so that you have to TAB through each caster unit to at least make it more difficult but still be smart casting in a way.

Example: You have 3 templar all at full energy. You select them all and hit storm and click once. It will only storm once from one templar. If you tried to click storm multiple times it would try to storm all from the same templar until he is out of energy. However, if you pressed tab to cycle through the different templar each time (or a different key to not have this overlap with cycling through types of units? Such as ~), then you could storm from the different templars. This way you wouldn't have to individually select templars which I think is what is so difficult for beginners, but the speed in which you would be able to cast multiple spells would have a bit more skill involved.

good attempt but that barely makes things better. assume templars are on 6. 6, hold x (play grid so that's the hotkey), tab, click, tab, click, tab click, back to square 1 with maybe 3 additional apm added. even if they also disallowed you from holding the spell button, that's really just another 3 apm. within 20 practice games you have the hang of this type of thing, within 50 you're just making stupid mistakes if you aren't hitting it right. it's still far from what i'd call impressive, you know?

i think the main issue with this is that, in BW, storm could be fuckin POWER OVERWHELMING because player skill naturally capped the efficiency of storms. even if storms did 125 damage and could kill the living shit out of everything if only you could storm everything as accurately as in SC2, you couldn't against someone controlling their army with anything mobile. now that there is no player skill capping the efficiency, game balance has to take a step in and say, "no, this spell actually can't be this good because when it's used, it will consistently be used well almost every time and we have to balance the game around this spell being used as if anyone could do it perfectly." meaning, they'd nerf it so it doesn't break the game, which hurts the game, which is what the OP is trying to get at.

lyAsakura

United States1414 Posts

December 29 2010 01:59 GMT

#129

On December 29 2010 10:53 emc wrote:
meh...

tired of these BW is better than SC2 threads, can we just stop already? Balance is one thing but I hate how we keep comparing the two games. SC2 is a different game and should be balanced differently from BW, making it the same on a new engine with new AI and features won't make it better. Some say that SC2 has devolved, I think it's evolved from a clunky game that required too much emphasis on APM and is now a game about thinking and out smarting your opponent because less work is involved on your hands. I'm sorry but I don't want to play a game that induces carpel tunnel.

Why do people keep saying this... It makes absolutely no sense at all. You do not have to think to macro or micro, it is all reflexes, speed, and accuracy. So what if the game requires more speed? I have not seen one thing about SC2 that makes it any more of a "thinking game" then SCBW except if extremely basic counters mean hard thinking to you then sure.

+ Show Spoiler +

I don't remember anyone getting carpal tunnel from starcraft before, except I think GGplay getting carpal that I read from iccup.