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Question for atheist - Page 21

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Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
June 01 2004 17:18 GMT
#401
Yeah well appearances can be decieving, huh. Scientifically, there is no reason they should.
Arbiter[frolix]
Profile Joined January 2004
United Kingdom2674 Posts
June 01 2004 22:03 GMT
#402
The existence of consciousness provides no evidence whatsoever for anything very much. We do not understand consciousness; we do not even have the conceptual framework to think or discourse clearly on the subject. Attempting to use it as evidence for the existence (or non-existence for that matter) of God or anything else is a complete and utter dead end.
We are vigilant.
Tien
Profile Joined January 2003
Russian Federation4447 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-06-01 22:56:18
June 01 2004 22:53 GMT
#403
On June 02 2004 01:52 travis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2004 09:29 Konni wrote:
NTT wrote:
"We're all randomly assembled bits of matter. Out of billions of stars and planet combination ours happened to spawn life. Big whoop. When we die we decompose and we'll be gone"

I couldn't have said it better


I could.

Organized bits of matter does not create a consciousness.

Millions of geniuses have believed in a god, whether defined by a known religion or not.


The point you make is that "Organized bits of matter does not create a consciousness." Prove it. Are you just trying to use your logic to make such an assumption without ANY FACTS to support you? Well unfortunately for you according to biology, amino acids were able to be formed experimentally when enough heat or pressure was applied to certain elements. As we evolve there is a good possibility that consciousness will come about. If we all thought the way you did, we would still be living in the stone age thinking only God can unravel the mysteries of life. From monkeys we came, not Adam and Eve, not God.

Please, do not mix religion with science, science has no room for religion. Just because we are conscious of ourselves doesnt mean it is impossible for evolution to create us that way. Yet your theories about a God are still unproven in the domain of science. Stick to morality and religion, thats where God was invented, and thats where God should remain. He has no business in the realm of science.

When Galileo was asked where God fit into his equations and explanations, he simply replied "I have no need for such a hypothesis."

EDIT: Scientifically there should be no reason why God exists either.
We decide our own destiny
jtan
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden5891 Posts
June 01 2004 23:52 GMT
#404
I havnt really followed the whole thread but...to reply to the Post:
If one of 5*10^~100, or any finite number, things occurs regulary in an infinite amount of time, _all_ of the things would occur sooner or later. And second, doesnt that high number just give the possibility that a human would pop out of nowhere?
Enter a Uh
Eatme
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
Switzerland3919 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-06-02 00:18:56
June 02 2004 00:18 GMT
#405
Whoo I come too late to this topic. 21pages... Well I just answer to the first post and say. That number is something some christian pulled out of some random hole in his body. I guess someone have said this already but anyway. Have a nice day and if you didn't know. God does not exist and there is proof for the evolution.
I have the best fucking lawyers in the country including the man they call the Malmis.
pooper-scooper
Profile Joined May 2003
United States3108 Posts
June 02 2004 01:34 GMT
#406
On May 30 2004 22:15 Ryan307 wrote:
if you give 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 monkeys 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 typewriters they will produce the works of shakespeare.

well, probably not, but you know what i'm trying to say.

I'm agnostic myself.


As a wise man once said... The internet has proved the above wrong.
Good...Bad... Im the guy with the gun
baal
Profile Joined March 2003
10708 Posts
June 02 2004 02:48 GMT
#407
Its not "randomness" by the way, atoms makes complex and more complex structures, leading to a lifeform is unevitable, it doesnt matter how many randomness in the big bang is, it will always create a lifeform, and probably with time superior atom masses, pure energy benigs maybe, who knows.

But its stupid to think this is a "random" event, cause its not, its a natural, logic, non-created step in universe expansion.


BTW stimey its good to see im not in your ignore list anymore, and its even better to see that actually you are smart enough to have a little bit of introspection and fine criticism.
Im back, in pog form!
Profile Joined March 2004
United States43 Posts
June 02 2004 03:29 GMT
#408
Actually, Tien, scientists haven't proved that if you mix up chemicals and heat them or zap them with a spark, them will form persistent amino acids. They do form aminos, but the aminos quickly separate again. The scientists have to screen harmful light, remove linked aminos, cleanse the ingredients, etc. to actually keep some form of amino acids. In other words, scientists have proved that chance just won't cut it. Intelligent life has to be there to sort everything out.

I must also add that science has its roots in Christianity. That's right, without Christianity science wouldn't be where it is today. You see, ancient people used to think the world was made of god-like things. The rivers, the plants, the sun, they were all divine. But then Christianity came along and those things weren't divine anymore, they were part of our world. Being part of our world and being entrusted to us in Genesis, we were free to explore them through science. Nowadays, however, science has drifted away from religion, which is probably why you say "science has no room for religion". Still, we can't ignore history.

I hope I made myself clear.
To ASSUME make an ASS out of U and ME.
Muhweli
Profile Joined September 2002
Finland5328 Posts
June 02 2004 03:30 GMT
#409
On June 02 2004 11:48 baal wrote:
Its not "randomness" by the way, atoms makes complex and more complex structures, leading to a lifeform is unevitable, it doesnt matter how many randomness in the big bang is, it will always create a lifeform, and probably with time superior atom masses, pure energy benigs maybe, who knows.

But its stupid to think this is a "random" event, cause its not, its a natural, logic, non-created step in universe expansion.


BTW stimey its good to see im not in your ignore list anymore, and its even better to see that actually you are smart enough to have a little bit of introspection and fine criticism.


yea and it has nothing to do with god too
River me timbers.
LaptopLegacy
Profile Joined October 2002
Netherlands602 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-06-02 03:54:28
June 02 2004 03:52 GMT
#410
This old post is unavailable due to an encoding issue. Please contact an admin if you would like this post restored for historical reasons.
Luctor et Emergo
Tien
Profile Joined January 2003
Russian Federation4447 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-06-02 04:41:18
June 02 2004 04:35 GMT
#411
This old post is unavailable due to an encoding issue. Please contact an admin if you would like this post restored for historical reasons.
We decide our own destiny
RuGbUg
Profile Joined June 2003
United States2347 Posts
June 02 2004 06:16 GMT
#412
This old post is unavailable due to an encoding issue. Please contact an admin if you would like this post restored for historical reasons.
anguish: its like that time i asked my bestfriend who happened to be black if his dick was bigger than mine anguish: he got angry anguish: and told me i was racist and gay
badteeth
Profile Joined January 2003
Netherlands1416 Posts
June 02 2004 06:27 GMT
#413
Rugbug, the thing is that they never inserted their religon into their scientific work. The fact that a few important people were christian doesn't subtract from the fact that the christian church as a whole has held back science for hundreds of years.
no quote for you! ehh, damn.
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28874 Posts
June 02 2004 06:32 GMT
#414
"if you give 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 monkeys 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 typewriters they will produce the works of shakespeare."

god, I'm so incredibly tired of people fucking that up.

it's not 5000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 or ANY NUMBER. even if the number has a fucking BAZILLION 0's in it. if you write a number, it DOES NOT WORK.

it's an INFINITE amount of monkeys with an INFINITE amount of typewriters.

in fact, if you give an infinite amount of monkeys an infinite amount of typewriters, you'll reproduce an infinite amount of shakespeare's works. you'll also have an infinite amount of papers going 784237214g32krjbasjfbdsafta78t4wntkdzxbhg7xh789t45ehstlrh5u
and tjk4hert874nf87xng5xe8ng5oexnt7849hs

and "lol"
and "why are people fucking up that quote so often"

in fact the monkeys would also reproduce this very post an infinite amount of times.
Moderator
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
June 02 2004 07:03 GMT
#415
On June 02 2004 07:03 Arbiter[frolix] wrote:
The existence of consciousness provides no evidence whatsoever for anything very much. We do not understand consciousness; we do not even have the conceptual framework to think or discourse clearly on the subject. Attempting to use it as evidence for the existence (or non-existence for that matter) of God or anything else is a complete and utter dead end.


What the hell are you talking about. I didn't use the existence of consciousness as evidence for anything, only to show that things aren't so fucking simple.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
June 02 2004 07:10 GMT
#416
On June 02 2004 07:53 Tien wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2004 01:52 travis wrote:
On June 01 2004 09:29 Konni wrote:
NTT wrote:
"We're all randomly assembled bits of matter. Out of billions of stars and planet combination ours happened to spawn life. Big whoop. When we die we decompose and we'll be gone"

I couldn't have said it better


I could.

Organized bits of matter does not create a consciousness.

Millions of geniuses have believed in a god, whether defined by a known religion or not.


The point you make is that "Organized bits of matter does not create a consciousness." Prove it. Are you just trying to use your logic to make such an assumption without ANY FACTS to support you? Well unfortunately for you according to biology, amino acids were able to be formed experimentally when enough heat or pressure was applied to certain elements. As we evolve there is a good possibility that consciousness will come about. If we all thought the way you did, we would still be living in the stone age thinking only God can unravel the mysteries of life. From monkeys we came, not Adam and Eve, not God.

Please, do not mix religion with science, science has no room for religion. Just because we are conscious of ourselves doesnt mean it is impossible for evolution to create us that way. Yet your theories about a God are still unproven in the domain of science. Stick to morality and religion, thats where God was invented, and thats where God should remain. He has no business in the realm of science.

When Galileo was asked where God fit into his equations and explanations, he simply replied "I have no need for such a hypothesis."

EDIT: Scientifically there should be no reason why God exists either.


Why would I have to prove it? Your post doesn't even make any fucking sense. I was just making a post stating that as I said, things are not so simple.

How about you prove to me that organized bits of matter can create a consciousness, since you seem to think so.


" Well unfortunately for you according to biology, amino acids were able to be formed experimentally when enough heat or pressure was applied to certain elements. As we evolve there is a good possibility that consciousness will come about"

WHAT? WHAT?
Explain how evolution of a physical being can create self-awareness. How does any physical part of me allow me to recognize the fact that I exist. Wow, good job dumbass.
Liquid`Spy
Profile Joined October 2002
Netherlands1301 Posts
June 02 2004 07:24 GMT
#417
On June 02 2004 15:32 Liquid`Drone wrote:
"if you give 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 monkeys 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 typewriters they will produce the works of shakespeare."

god, I'm so incredibly tired of people fucking that up.

it's not 5000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 or ANY NUMBER. even if the number has a fucking BAZILLION 0's in it. if you write a number, it DOES NOT WORK.

it's an INFINITE amount of monkeys with an INFINITE amount of typewriters.

in fact, if you give an infinite amount of monkeys an infinite amount of typewriters, you'll reproduce an infinite amount of shakespeare's works. you'll also have an infinite amount of papers going 784237214g32krjbasjfbdsafta78t4wntkdzxbhg7xh789t45ehstlrh5u
and tjk4hert874nf87xng5xe8ng5oexnt7849hs

and "lol"
and "why are people fucking up that quote so often"

in fact the monkeys would also reproduce this very post an infinite amount of times.


what the hell do monkeys and typewriters have to do with the bible?
oh wait...
Im a spy in the house of love
baal
Profile Joined March 2003
10708 Posts
June 02 2004 07:27 GMT
#418
On June 02 2004 16:24 Liquid`Spy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2004 15:32 Liquid`Drone wrote:
"if you give 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 monkeys 50,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 typewriters they will produce the works of shakespeare."

god, I'm so incredibly tired of people fucking that up.

it's not 5000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 or ANY NUMBER. even if the number has a fucking BAZILLION 0's in it. if you write a number, it DOES NOT WORK.

it's an INFINITE amount of monkeys with an INFINITE amount of typewriters.

in fact, if you give an infinite amount of monkeys an infinite amount of typewriters, you'll reproduce an infinite amount of shakespeare's works. you'll also have an infinite amount of papers going 784237214g32krjbasjfbdsafta78t4wntkdzxbhg7xh789t45ehstlrh5u
and tjk4hert874nf87xng5xe8ng5oexnt7849hs

and "lol"
and "why are people fucking up that quote so often"

in fact the monkeys would also reproduce this very post an infinite amount of times.


what the hell do monkeys and typewriters have to do with the bible?
oh wait...


OMFG HAHAHAHAHAHAH, lol you are funny
Im back, in pog form!
baal
Profile Joined March 2003
10708 Posts
June 02 2004 07:28 GMT
#419
Actually you dont need infinte monekys, infinite typewritters.

you only need 1 monkey to type infinitely.


or one Bazillion of snakes with blue pens :p
Im back, in pog form!
Liquid`Spy
Profile Joined October 2002
Netherlands1301 Posts
June 02 2004 07:29 GMT
#420
On June 02 2004 16:10 travis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2004 07:53 Tien wrote:
On June 02 2004 01:52 travis wrote:
On June 01 2004 09:29 Konni wrote:
NTT wrote:
"We're all randomly assembled bits of matter. Out of billions of stars and planet combination ours happened to spawn life. Big whoop. When we die we decompose and we'll be gone"

I couldn't have said it better


I could.

Organized bits of matter does not create a consciousness.

Millions of geniuses have believed in a god, whether defined by a known religion or not.


The point you make is that "Organized bits of matter does not create a consciousness." Prove it. Are you just trying to use your logic to make such an assumption without ANY FACTS to support you? Well unfortunately for you according to biology, amino acids were able to be formed experimentally when enough heat or pressure was applied to certain elements. As we evolve there is a good possibility that consciousness will come about. If we all thought the way you did, we would still be living in the stone age thinking only God can unravel the mysteries of life. From monkeys we came, not Adam and Eve, not God.

Please, do not mix religion with science, science has no room for religion. Just because we are conscious of ourselves doesnt mean it is impossible for evolution to create us that way. Yet your theories about a God are still unproven in the domain of science. Stick to morality and religion, thats where God was invented, and thats where God should remain. He has no business in the realm of science.

When Galileo was asked where God fit into his equations and explanations, he simply replied "I have no need for such a hypothesis."

EDIT: Scientifically there should be no reason why God exists either.


Why would I have to prove it? Your post doesn't even make any fucking sense. I was just making a post stating that as I said, things are not so simple.

How about you prove to me that organized bits of matter can create a consciousness, since you seem to think so.


" Well unfortunately for you according to biology, amino acids were able to be formed experimentally when enough heat or pressure was applied to certain elements. As we evolve there is a good possibility that consciousness will come about"

WHAT? WHAT?
Explain how evolution of a physical being can create self-awareness. How does any physical part of me allow me to recognize the fact that I exist. Wow, good job dumbass.


So travis, if I understand correctly it is more likely that some kind of thing that's NOT matter creates our consiousness, something that cannot be seen or weighed, something that's impossible to prove the existence of, but nontheless floats somewhere around in our heads?
Im a spy in the house of love
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