Best American Players - Page 9

On May 06 2004 21:52 ObsoleteLogic wrote:
Emperor do you have Swedish blood or something...?
I mean, you must be Latin, thats a given, but, whew.

On May 06 2004 19:13 Teroru wrote:
But no one knows how good any1 is.

I'm the best zerg outside of korea.

Not a single person on these forums can say otherwise: none of you know how good i am.

Every1 is equally as ignorant about skill as every1 else. You can't not be influenced by the people you play with most. The difference is that most people will value opinions of 'good' players *because they are thought of as good*. It doesn't mean that the good player's RIGHT though.

The guy admitted that he based his opinion off of his own experiences - and you people rag on him for it. The difference between him and the rest of you is that he is *admitting* to his ignorance, while the rest of you are naive enough to think that YOUR not ignorant.

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These lists aren't pointless because skill is subjective. The only way you can 'prove' ones skill, is to observe their performance. At the same time, we all know that one's performance isn't necesarrily a true reflection of ones skill. ie: i am 2-0 with Trek. But i, and everyone else, know that i am nowhere near his level of skill.

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On that note, i'd like to add that i think im top 10 zerg in NA. I'm assuming Day is better (because he's #1 on every1's list, and i've never played him). I've never seen Cocoa play, or have played him, so i will give him the benefit of the doubt and put him at #2 (being that he also gets alot of votes). Paul can't not be on the list. He's better than day and cocoa imo, but again, 'i dont know shit', cause i've never seen Day play.

After that, i don't believe there are any top zerg players. So i will put myself somewhere between 4 and 10. (just incase there might be some unknown gosu's).

On May 07 2004 02:55 88)KicKDoG wrote:
cool thread though in the beginning. im surprised to see myself listed so many times

On May 07 2004 01:58 XaI)CyRiC wrote:


Both Sadist and Nyoken are pretty well-known players, people DO know how good they are. We're not talking about you, we're not talking about Twitt. The comparison was between two players whose comparative skill IS known by the people who have played with them and are in a position to judge (people who are better or near their skill).

That being said, not everyone is as ignorant as everyone else in this case. There are players such as Sadist himself, Nyoken, Rekrul, etc. who are in a position to make such a judgment of their comparative skills. Their opinions will be weighed more heavily because they have the knowledge necessary to make the comparison, not just the fact that they are "good". In this case they are not only right because they're good, but also because of their experience with the players in question.

Twitt made a judgment based on limited knowledge and was criticized for it by people who know better. He then tried to argue by explaining his flawed logical process of reaching his conclusion (I'm not going to explain the flaws again). His admittance of his ignorance means nothing if he somehow still thinks that his opinion holds any weight despite it.

The difference between Twitt and us is not that he admits to his ignorance, I freely admit to ignorance on the topic of Nyoken and Sadist's relative skill. The difference is that he doesn't realize his limited knowledge and flawed reasoning makes his opinion worthless in the face of the people he's trying to convince. I, and any reasonable person, would not presume to tell Sadist that Nyoken is better than he is when all I have to go on is biased and incomplete information. Opinion or not, it's still a silly thing to do.

Skill is subjective to a point, but there are situations in which it can be judged relative to others. It's not like Nyoken and Sadist have never played, or are part of different continents. They are both skilled players in the US, and it's very likely that people who are part of that small group of very skilled US players CAN judge with reasonable accuracy their comparative skill levels. The judgments would indeed be subjective and limited in accuracy to an extent, but I think it'd be negligible and by no means ill-informed or ignorant.

Oh and many of us on this forum CAN say otherwise about your claim to being the best Zerg outside of Korea. The absence of evidence is not evidence, the lack of information about your skill does not lead to the assumption that you are the best. Reasonable people would be skeptical of such a claim until given evidence to the contrary, not the other way around. Your skill is non-existent until proven, people don't start at the top of the ladder. The difference between the reasoning of you and Twitt, and that of Rekrul and mine is that I'm not going to make any judgments about your relative skill with that limited knowledge.

On May 07 2004 02:00 sliggdogg wrote:
cyric if you weren't an admin i'd tell you to shut the fuck up.
Oh well, guess I just did. Bye -.-