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Best American Players - Page 9

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Twisted
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Netherlands13554 Posts
May 06 2004 14:51 GMT
#161
I think Blast is better than hovz

he has achieved more in any case!
Moderator
option4
Profile Joined November 2002
United States104 Posts
May 06 2004 16:09 GMT
#162
this is kinda off topic a bit, but just out of curiousity, are any of you going to compete in wcg this year? what about u hovz? i havent been on b.net for a couple months, and i joined b.net today for the first time and didn't see a single name i recognized. on wgtour either. anyhow just curious if anyone from last year is gonna compete this year at all~ hit me up on west if u wanna practice at all;;;;;;;
always smile ^_^
Mora
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Canada5235 Posts
May 06 2004 16:31 GMT
#163
What name are you using option? :X

<--- [GiTM]-Moraelin
Happiness only real when shared.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
May 06 2004 16:42 GMT
#164
On May 06 2004 21:52 ObsoleteLogic wrote:
Emperor do you have Swedish blood or something...?
I mean, you must be Latin, thats a given, but, whew.

Yeah it makes one wonder
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
May 06 2004 16:58 GMT
#165
On May 06 2004 19:13 Teroru wrote:
But no one knows how good any1 is.

I'm the best zerg outside of korea.

Not a single person on these forums can say otherwise: none of you know how good i am.

Every1 is equally as ignorant about skill as every1 else. You can't not be influenced by the people you play with most. The difference is that most people will value opinions of 'good' players *because they are thought of as good*. It doesn't mean that the good player's RIGHT though.

The guy admitted that he based his opinion off of his own experiences - and you people rag on him for it. The difference between him and the rest of you is that he is *admitting* to his ignorance, while the rest of you are naive enough to think that YOUR not ignorant.

----

These lists aren't pointless because skill is subjective. The only way you can 'prove' ones skill, is to observe their performance. At the same time, we all know that one's performance isn't necesarrily a true reflection of ones skill. ie: i am 2-0 with Trek. But i, and everyone else, know that i am nowhere near his level of skill.

----

On that note, i'd like to add that i think im top 10 zerg in NA. I'm assuming Day is better (because he's #1 on every1's list, and i've never played him). I've never seen Cocoa play, or have played him, so i will give him the benefit of the doubt and put him at #2 (being that he also gets alot of votes). Paul can't not be on the list. He's better than day and cocoa imo, but again, 'i dont know shit', cause i've never seen Day play.

After that, i don't believe there are any top zerg players. So i will put myself somewhere between 4 and 10. (just incase there might be some unknown gosu's).


Both Sadist and Nyoken are pretty well-known players, people DO know how good they are. We're not talking about you, we're not talking about Twitt. The comparison was between two players whose comparative skill IS known by the people who have played with them and are in a position to judge (people who are better or near their skill).

That being said, not everyone is as ignorant as everyone else in this case. There are players such as Sadist himself, Nyoken, Rekrul, etc. who are in a position to make such a judgment of their comparative skills. Their opinions will be weighed more heavily because they have the knowledge necessary to make the comparison, not just the fact that they are "good". In this case they are not only right because they're good, but also because of their experience with the players in question.

Twitt made a judgment based on limited knowledge and was criticized for it by people who know better. He then tried to argue by explaining his flawed logical process of reaching his conclusion (I'm not going to explain the flaws again). His admittance of his ignorance means nothing if he somehow still thinks that his opinion holds any weight despite it.

The difference between Twitt and us is not that he admits to his ignorance, I freely admit to ignorance on the topic of Nyoken and Sadist's relative skill. The difference is that he doesn't realize his limited knowledge and flawed reasoning makes his opinion worthless in the face of the people he's trying to convince. I, and any reasonable person, would not presume to tell Sadist that Nyoken is better than he is when all I have to go on is biased and incomplete information. Opinion or not, it's still a silly thing to do.

Skill is subjective to a point, but there are situations in which it can be judged relative to others. It's not like Nyoken and Sadist have never played, or are part of different continents. They are both skilled players in the US, and it's very likely that people who are part of that small group of very skilled US players CAN judge with reasonable accuracy their comparative skill levels. The judgments would indeed be subjective and limited in accuracy to an extent, but I think it'd be negligible and by no means ill-informed or ignorant.

Oh and many of us on this forum CAN say otherwise about your claim to being the best Zerg outside of Korea. The absence of evidence is not evidence, the lack of information about your skill does not lead to the assumption that you are the best. Reasonable people would be skeptical of such a claim until given evidence to the contrary, not the other way around. Your skill is non-existent until proven, people don't start at the top of the ladder. The difference between the reasoning of you and Twitt, and that of Rekrul and mine is that I'm not going to make any judgments about your relative skill with that limited knowledge.
Moderator
sliggdogg
Profile Joined April 2004
Australia178 Posts
May 06 2004 17:00 GMT
#166
cyric if you weren't an admin i'd tell you to shut the fuck up.
Oh well, guess I just did. Bye -.-
Yippee.
PuertoRican
Profile Joined April 2004
United States5709 Posts
May 06 2004 17:07 GMT
#167
why would you tell him to shut the fuck up?
cuz he's telling people the truth?
If anyone orders any merlot Im leaving. I am NOT drinking any fucking merlot.
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
May 06 2004 17:08 GMT
#168
You'd have to give me a good reason to, but I'm not sensing you have one.
Moderator
Dirk
Profile Joined May 2003
United States1339 Posts
May 06 2004 17:10 GMT
#169
Nice essay.
Dont confuse me wit these suckas... cuz when I spit, you here more OOOs than a skip to my lou move.. at the ruckers - Lloyd Banks
88)KicKDoG
Profile Joined April 2004
86 Posts
May 06 2004 17:44 GMT
#170
lol rofl hahahahah. someone said darki is a top american, along with rivc and keir? DEFINITELY top south americans, but still nothing compared to top americans.

and cyric is obviously right, and those disagreeing with what hes saying are obviously wrong. its simple common sense...
88)KicKDoG
Profile Joined April 2004
86 Posts
May 06 2004 17:55 GMT
#171
cool thread though in the beginning. im surprised to see myself listed so many times
Zerius[TPR]
Profile Joined April 2003
Canada1633 Posts
May 06 2004 18:07 GMT
#172
On May 07 2004 02:55 88)KicKDoG wrote:
cool thread though in the beginning. im surprised to see myself listed so many times


Ill take a crazy guess and say its because no one plays zerg in the USA.

You're on my list though, <3
where from you, circus?
Probe (H)
Profile Joined March 2004
Netherlands448 Posts
May 06 2004 18:10 GMT
#173
only igor can compete with north america.

Obviously canada has the best zergs/protoss and random. But usa has best terrans.
ilnp
Profile Joined December 2002
Iceland1330 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-05-06 18:15:32
May 06 2004 18:12 GMT
#174
When will you guys never learn that being good at BW will not make you cool, nor will fooling a couple hundrend recluse adolescents into thinking you're good.

Being good at Starcraft is about making you feel good inside. All the good players, the truly great players, didn't play Starcraft so a bunch of kids would come up to them at a tournament. Fuck, they didn't even play it for money. They played it because being good at some stupid activity was important to them.

In my personal exploits I recently (not too recent... maybe six months ago) met a dutch poker player, quite good, who was also a fairly established chess player, who told me "I play poker for money, I play chess for love." You all should feel that way about BW, or find a new hobby.

Oh man I just ripped one hell of a fart.
8===D~~
Twitt
Profile Joined December 2003
United States733 Posts
May 06 2004 18:28 GMT
#175
On May 07 2004 01:58 XaI)CyRiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 06 2004 19:13 Teroru wrote:
But no one knows how good any1 is.

I'm the best zerg outside of korea.

Not a single person on these forums can say otherwise: none of you know how good i am.

Every1 is equally as ignorant about skill as every1 else. You can't not be influenced by the people you play with most. The difference is that most people will value opinions of 'good' players *because they are thought of as good*. It doesn't mean that the good player's RIGHT though.

The guy admitted that he based his opinion off of his own experiences - and you people rag on him for it. The difference between him and the rest of you is that he is *admitting* to his ignorance, while the rest of you are naive enough to think that YOUR not ignorant.

----

These lists aren't pointless because skill is subjective. The only way you can 'prove' ones skill, is to observe their performance. At the same time, we all know that one's performance isn't necesarrily a true reflection of ones skill. ie: i am 2-0 with Trek. But i, and everyone else, know that i am nowhere near his level of skill.

----

On that note, i'd like to add that i think im top 10 zerg in NA. I'm assuming Day is better (because he's #1 on every1's list, and i've never played him). I've never seen Cocoa play, or have played him, so i will give him the benefit of the doubt and put him at #2 (being that he also gets alot of votes). Paul can't not be on the list. He's better than day and cocoa imo, but again, 'i dont know shit', cause i've never seen Day play.

After that, i don't believe there are any top zerg players. So i will put myself somewhere between 4 and 10. (just incase there might be some unknown gosu's).


Both Sadist and Nyoken are pretty well-known players, people DO know how good they are. We're not talking about you, we're not talking about Twitt. The comparison was between two players whose comparative skill IS known by the people who have played with them and are in a position to judge (people who are better or near their skill).

That being said, not everyone is as ignorant as everyone else in this case. There are players such as Sadist himself, Nyoken, Rekrul, etc. who are in a position to make such a judgment of their comparative skills. Their opinions will be weighed more heavily because they have the knowledge necessary to make the comparison, not just the fact that they are "good". In this case they are not only right because they're good, but also because of their experience with the players in question.

Twitt made a judgment based on limited knowledge and was criticized for it by people who know better. He then tried to argue by explaining his flawed logical process of reaching his conclusion (I'm not going to explain the flaws again). His admittance of his ignorance means nothing if he somehow still thinks that his opinion holds any weight despite it.

The difference between Twitt and us is not that he admits to his ignorance, I freely admit to ignorance on the topic of Nyoken and Sadist's relative skill. The difference is that he doesn't realize his limited knowledge and flawed reasoning makes his opinion worthless in the face of the people he's trying to convince. I, and any reasonable person, would not presume to tell Sadist that Nyoken is better than he is when all I have to go on is biased and incomplete information. Opinion or not, it's still a silly thing to do.

Skill is subjective to a point, but there are situations in which it can be judged relative to others. It's not like Nyoken and Sadist have never played, or are part of different continents. They are both skilled players in the US, and it's very likely that people who are part of that small group of very skilled US players CAN judge with reasonable accuracy their comparative skill levels. The judgments would indeed be subjective and limited in accuracy to an extent, but I think it'd be negligible and by no means ill-informed or ignorant.

Oh and many of us on this forum CAN say otherwise about your claim to being the best Zerg outside of Korea. The absence of evidence is not evidence, the lack of information about your skill does not lead to the assumption that you are the best. Reasonable people would be skeptical of such a claim until given evidence to the contrary, not the other way around. Your skill is non-existent until proven, people don't start at the top of the ladder. The difference between the reasoning of you and Twitt, and that of Rekrul and mine is that I'm not going to make any judgments about your relative skill with that limited knowledge.


Fair enough I suppose.
MAN CLAN FIGHTING INDEED!~
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36402 Posts
May 06 2004 18:55 GMT
#176
On May 07 2004 02:00 sliggdogg wrote:
cyric if you weren't an admin i'd tell you to shut the fuck up.
Oh well, guess I just did. Bye -.-


his post was well thought out, well articulated, contained lots of valid points, and treated all parties with respect.

your post was stupid, contained no valid points, didn't make sense, and was a random flame.

i believe you should shut the fuck up.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Rekrul
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
Korea (South)17174 Posts
May 06 2004 19:02 GMT
#177
he will, because he's ip banned
why so 진지해?
Mora
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Canada5235 Posts
May 06 2004 19:12 GMT
#178
excellent post cyric - you're absolutely right ~
Happiness only real when shared.
SligMaster
Profile Joined May 2004
Australia6 Posts
May 06 2004 21:00 GMT
#179
ip banned hmm?
Oh well, my apoligies + a promise to behave myself. I hadn't read cyrics post I had just immediately told him to shutup because at first glance it appeared to be a long post just to tell someone they are wrong, or just to justify someones opinion. If that was the case It'd be WAY too big of a post for this purpose, but upon closer look I realise it was an attempt to resolve everyone's arguments, and I respect that.

Apologies Xal)CyRiC -.-
Yippee!
SligMaster
Profile Joined May 2004
Australia6 Posts
May 06 2004 21:01 GMT
#180
By the way, in case Rekrul decides to drop the hammer on me yet again, heres MY opinion before I leave.

Top 3 USA T:
1) FroZ
2) Sadist
3) HovZ

Top 3 USA P:
1)Rekrul
2)BigBalls
3)Saddles

Top 3 USA Z:
1)Day
2)CocoA
3)KicKDoG
Yippee!
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