All males in South Korea are obliged to do a two-year service in the military. There's no advertising to be had since you already have to go.

An ACE starcraft team doesn't somehow indoctrinate young men. You're completely off-base.

CagedMind

United States506 Posts

April 19 2010 15:38 GMT

#23

I'm having trouble of figuring out what border there is to be crossed.

789

United States959 Posts

April 19 2010 15:41 GMT

#24

I'm agree with the sentiment that this isn't a big deal since their is a mandatory military service in South Korea. It isn't like they are enticing young men into the military that wouldn't have normally joined through advertising (since they have to join anyway). The starcraft scene is getting more out of it by prolonging careers of older players while they serve in the military.

Also, the fact that you made no differentiation between North and South Korea irks me a bit. North Korea is the country that is viewed as a "threat" by most of the world.

thedeadhaji

39489 Posts

April 19 2010 15:43 GMT

#25

iirc korean military has a soccer squad as well (I remember someone saying this when Ace was first formed,)

Katsuge

Singapore7730 Posts

April 19 2010 15:45 GMT

#26

uh wads wrong with it?

KwarK

United States42622 Posts

April 19 2010 15:47 GMT

#27

There's nothing wrong with promoting the military as long as the military remains a respectable national institution. And as far as I know the South Korean military is.

ggrrg

Bulgaria2716 Posts

April 19 2010 15:53 GMT

#28

On April 19 2010 23:57 RoosterSamurai wrote:
The same thing happens in America, too... i.e. America's Army and AA2

Yeah, that's even far worse. AA is like: "Here young boy, try killing some people. It's tons of fun. Now go do it real life!"

I don't have a problem with ACE though.

Jibba

United States22883 Posts

April 19 2010 15:55 GMT

#29

Sports have historically served as training grounds for fighter and leaders - to turn boys into men - during times of peace.

Just throwing that out there...

udgnim

United States8024 Posts

April 19 2010 16:03 GMT

#30

I see it as team where retired SC pros can play while serving their time within the Korean military. native-born Koreans get drafted into service and have to serve anyways. the Korean Air Force having a Brood War team isn't that big of a deal to me.

Snet

United States3573 Posts

April 19 2010 16:06 GMT

#31

Would never of thought it bothered people.

Acies

Australia196 Posts

April 19 2010 16:09 GMT

#32

I would be opposed to such a team in my own country where military service is voluntary.
I can imagine a reversal of these ads occuring
http://www.gamepolitics.com/2010/02/25/bad-company-2-amp-french-army-ads-square

They would be attempting to associate videogames with actual violence which I think would be detrimental to the esports scene (granted there is none in australia).
Starcraft should be about competition and sportsmanship not fantasizing about real combat.

fulmetljaket

482 Posts

April 19 2010 16:19 GMT

#33

i have no idea what this thread is about.

which army? over where? why is advertising the military bad? why does it matter?

i feel like a noob.

Prof. Protoss

Germany744 Posts

April 19 2010 16:20 GMT

#34

On April 19 2010 23:39 Shizuru~ wrote:
i remember reading an article by SDM that says the reason they made the ACE pro-gaming team is to keep Boxer on TV even while he's in the military, so its E-Sports trying to promote itself through the air force, not the otherway around.

also, the military is for people who wished to serve their countries, an act of patriotism, and the point ur making is as if to demonise the military organisation of S.Korea, i don't know much about how the military is like is like in S.Korea so i won't comment too much about it.

at least do some digging into the history of the ACE team before spouting out some un-informed arguments/points -.-

Oh and the military does not gain any benefit out of the relationship? That's the thing that bothers me.

On April 19 2010 23:41 dukethegold wrote:
[...]
Wasn't Boxer instrumental in the creation of ACE?

That's what I'm saying. Boxer could have said no. If so ACE wouldn't even exist. In my opinion that'd be great.

On April 20 2010 00:16 Musoeun wrote:
I tend to think that serving in your country's armed forces is a completely respectable and patriotic career path, so I wouldn't have much of a problem with it anyway -
[...]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the whole discussion comes down to this. I just wanted to know how TL thinks. Looks like I'm pretty alone here

On April 20 2010 00:23 [DUF]MethodMan wrote:
Only a German could care about this lol

I was hoping some left-wingers would back me up here

On April 20 2010 00:38 CagedMind wrote:
I'm having trouble of figuring out what border there is to be crossed.

The border between playing a game, having fun, doing nothing that requires much thinking about ethics and real life. Some kids watching Starcraft won't notice the difference.

On April 20 2010 00:55 Jibba wrote:
Sports have historically served as training grounds for fighter and leaders - to turn boys into men - during times of peace.

Just throwing that out there...

I know that but there is this thing called evolution

On April 19 2010 23:33 KurtistheTurtle wrote:
i like how your poll has no options to agree lol

Sorry my poll has the wrong title, I just noticed

HeartOfTofu

United States308 Posts

April 19 2010 16:35 GMT

#35

You still haven't responded to what I think is the biggest point which is the fact that military service is mandatory in SK anyway... To be honest, South Koreans for the most part don't really make a big deal out of military service like people in the US. It's not about being a patriot or hero... It's just a normal thing that everyone does and gets over with... Sort've like going to school. I think ACE has a negligable influence at best on any attitude toward the military over there.

MuffinDude

United States3837 Posts

April 19 2010 16:43 GMT

#36

Service in the army is mandatory. You're clearly not willing to accept other people's culture.

On April 20 2010 01:20 Prof. Protoss wrote:

Show nested quote +

That's what I'm saying. Boxer could have said no. If so ACE wouldn't even exist. In my opinion that'd be great.

So you're saying that letting people play a game that they want to keep playing is bad? I mean these players chose to be on ACE after deciding to go to the army.

Prof. Protoss

Germany744 Posts

April 19 2010 16:44 GMT

#37

On April 20 2010 01:35 HeartOfTofu wrote:
You still haven't responded to what I think is the biggest point which is the fact that military service is mandatory in SK anyway... To be honest, South Koreans for the most part don't really make a big deal out of military service like people in the US. It's not about being a patriot or hero... It's just a normal thing that everyone does and gets over with... Sort've like going to school. I think ACE has a negligable influence at best on any attitude toward the military over there.

Hm, that's like saying an advertisment for Coca Cola doesn't matter because people drink Coca Cola anyways.

Craton

United States17250 Posts

April 19 2010 16:46 GMT

#38

I know that but there is this thing called evolution

Evolution is completely unrelated to sports being used as training grounds.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the whole discussion comes down to this.

No, it comes down to the fact that service is already mandatory.

Oh and the military does not gain any benefit out of the relationship? That's the thing that bothers me.

You say that as if the military should never benefit from anything, ever. From everything you've posted, it seems apparent that you have a disdain for the military in general, which is a pretty misguided opinion. You just keep restating your original points without actually elaborating. Whenever you make a statement that goes against the "norm," a detailed why is necessary.

For instance, you claim it has an "effect on young people," but you don't even say what that effect is supposed to be, let alone offer anything to support that claim. All you do is paint it negatively.

theramstoss

Canada242 Posts

April 19 2010 16:46 GMT

#39

Every male has to serve, so how would anyone be "advertised" into serving? Other than a very few number of people who volunteer, but those people want a career out of it?