EPTpart1:
part2:
Sandals
| Forum Index > Closed |
Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
part1: part2: | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27140 Posts
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
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SilverSkyLark
Philippines8437 Posts
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
EDIT: This is a pretty terrible presentation lol | ||
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aers
United States1210 Posts
On April 11 2010 22:14 Manifesto7 wrote: FIRST Wow way to watch the video before you replied! | ||
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Manifesto7
Osaka27140 Posts
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myrmidon2537
Philippines2188 Posts
That and this being the first time I've heard rek's voice.. deep and sexy mmmm | ||
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antrax
Peru191 Posts
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LaLuSh
Sweden2358 Posts
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GTR
51424 Posts
like him drinking commander vodka or something like that. maybe i should upload. | ||
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Manifesto7
Osaka27140 Posts
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Whiplash
United States2928 Posts
GTR please do that! I remember reading Rek's earlier thread about this. I wonder if this is 1 of the reasons why upmagic isn't on the roster for estro and why the twins have been so dam inconsistent. | ||
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dacthehork
United States2000 Posts
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Caphe
Vietnam10817 Posts
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Fish_Baguettes
Australia589 Posts
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baller
527 Posts
but... u were cooler when i could imagine ur posts being spoken by someone smooth, now ur just another normal awkward drunk guy ranting, i wish i could unwatch this vid | ||
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KinosJourney2
Sweden1811 Posts
I just hope that Saviors slump wasn't due to him getting paid to do so | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21242 Posts
As stands this video is basically what you said in the thread. Ahh if this were true...;_; | ||
Hyde
Australia14568 Posts
On April 11 2010 22:44 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: List of names not as epic as I expected. I was expecting some bombshell list. As stands this video is basically what you said in the thread. Ahh if this were true...;_; My thoughts exactly :/ Also does anyone know what music he was playing in the background? | ||
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grobo
Japan6199 Posts
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Julmust
Sweden4867 Posts
rekrul name of the songs please  | ||
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littlechava
United States7218 Posts
we should rake through their matchlists and try to figure out when they were throwing the games edit: i wonder if upmagic was paid to lose to savior in this match: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/31444_sAviOr_vs_UpMaGiC | ||
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grobo
Japan6199 Posts
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ZenDeX
Philippines2916 Posts
On April 11 2010 22:50 littlechava wrote: Games from the IEF maybe?we should rake through their matchlists and try to figure out when they were throwing the games | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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omninmo
2349 Posts
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
 isclaimer, Rekul says its probably true and things are ongoing*Savior/Lux/Yarnc/Upmagic/Justin were involved. Probably more involved. Investigation by Korean DA is ongoing. Justin is supposed to have been a ring leader for one of these betting rings in Hite Sparkyz. Savior allegedly did this and made 2 Mil betting against himself. There are some other more philosophical drunky things but that's probably all you care about. | ||
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grobo
Japan6199 Posts
On April 11 2010 22:55 Kennigit wrote: Savior's asshole will be destroyed in 2010 LOL | ||
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25977 Posts
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HopLight
Sweden999 Posts
Shame on you Lux, to think I liked you | ||
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JaimeR
148 Posts
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JaimeR
148 Posts
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YellowEmperor
Taiwan100 Posts
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lazz
Australia3119 Posts
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micronesia
United States24658 Posts
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Yaqoob
Canada3321 Posts
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Amnesia
United States3818 Posts
Thanks a lot for this video!!! | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
A staff member of CJ Entus said “Savior had a very bad knee problem for a while now. This isn't something that happened 'Suddenly' but rather his knee condition has gotten gradually worse and worse to a point where surgery is a good choice. Savior returned to his hometown and is now getting treatment there. The date of the surgery isn't determined yet." Because of Savior's unending slump and his knee condition it has been reported that Savior will stay at his hometown until things get better. I wonder if someone finally got pissed at losing money on Savior and busted his caps? | ||
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King K. Rool
Canada4408 Posts
Shitstorm. | ||
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Trezeguet
United States2656 Posts
On April 11 2010 22:29 Manifesto7 wrote: I guess Savior isn't destroying anything in 2010 His reputation and fanboy's hearts. | ||
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JaimeR
148 Posts
Poll: Biggest off screen progaming story? (Vote): Bisu on paid vacation. (Vote): Savior betting against himself and making two million. (Vote): Jaedong hospitalized for Enteritis. (Vote): Hwasin missing the WL playoffs to be with family. Is the $2,000,000 in USD or Korean currency? I have no idea what the exchange rate is. | ||
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micronesia
United States24658 Posts
On April 11 2010 23:19 JaimeR wrote: Is the $2,000,000 in USD or Korean currency? I have no idea what the exchange rate is. I believe whenever rekrul said 'dollars' he really meant USD after converting from korean currency. | ||
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TBO
Germany1350 Posts
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DanceCommander
United States1808 Posts
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Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
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Sharp-eYe
Canada642 Posts
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Sapraedon
United Kingdom142 Posts
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JohannesH
Finland1364 Posts
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
On April 11 2010 23:32 Scarecrow wrote: deserving the money or not doing shit like this hurts the integrity of the sport as a whole.They deserve the money imo, maybe if pro-teams paid their players appropriately it wouldn't be such a problem. | ||
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Rampoon
United Kingdom166 Posts
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RowdierBob
Australia13004 Posts
Players finding it tough making money legit on an ultra competitive scene and resort to easier methods for making money. This is really going to hurt progaming if true. Wonder what Kespa is going to do. | ||
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lazz
Australia3119 Posts
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alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
savior and luxury and upmagic throwing matches not yay | ||
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Naib
Hungary4843 Posts
On April 11 2010 23:32 Scarecrow wrote: They deserve the money imo, maybe if pro-teams paid their players appropriately it wouldn't be such a problem. Paid properly, my ass, they're playing a video game! It may be hard, it may be the best RTS ever made, but it's still just a video game. | ||
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SleepSheep
Canada344 Posts
On April 11 2010 23:39 Naib wrote: Paid properly, my ass, they're playing a video game! It may be hard, it may be the best RTS ever made, but it's still just a video game. yeah but in Korea it isn't "just a video game" | ||
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Puosu
6984 Posts
On April 11 2010 23:39 Naib wrote: Paid properly, my ass, they're playing a video game! It may be hard, it may be the best RTS ever made, but it's still just a video game. And why is that a reason to not earn money from it? I mean, football is a game right? fuck those fuckers running around kicking some balls- MY ANCESTORS HAD TO WORK IN MINE COALS AND EARNED SHIT SO WHY AWARD THOSE FUCKERS. There is no reason to distinquish chess from SC just because the other is played on a computer, people are close minded and hate new things but professinal gaming will be the thing of the future. | ||
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JohannesH
Finland1364 Posts
yes its "just a videogame" etc but theres a nice sum of money going around in the business, would be nice if players got a bigger share of that. | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
On April 11 2010 23:39 Naib wrote: Paid properly, my ass, they're playing a video game! It may be hard, it may be the best RTS ever made, but it's still just a video game. If humans would think like you we'd still making fire with rocks. That's like saying "wtf are programers paid for? typing a bit of code?" | ||
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King K. Rool
Canada4408 Posts
On April 11 2010 23:43 SuperArc wrote: If humans would think like you we'd still making fire with rocks. That's like saying "wtf are programers paid for? typing a bit of code?" We do other stuff. Like compiling. | ||
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pheus
Australia161 Posts
On April 11 2010 23:32 Scarecrow wrote: They deserve the money imo, maybe if pro-teams paid their players appropriately it wouldn't be such a problem. As far as I can tell progamers don't have to spend money on rent/food. This accounts for A LOT of most people's expenses. WIth this in mind, $30,000/year really isn't that low for someone young. | ||
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prog.ress
United States142 Posts
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Squallcloud
France466 Posts
On April 11 2010 23:39 Naib wrote: Paid properly, my ass, they're playing a video game! It may be hard, it may be the best RTS ever made, but it's still just a video game. So hard work doesn't deserve a salary because it's a videogame? O_o | ||
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BuGzlToOnl
United States5918 Posts
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Puosu
6984 Posts
On April 11 2010 23:45 pheus wrote: As far as I can tell progamers don't have to spend money on rent/food. This accounts for A LOT of most people's expenses. WIth this in mind, $30,000/year really isn't that low for someone young. It is when you've worked for years 12 hours a day towards that, and that kind of salary is not a standard. Most of the not top players make something like 10k a year if that. | ||
MrHoon
10183 Posts
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KOFgokuon
United States14893 Posts
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JohannesH
Finland1364 Posts
On April 11 2010 23:46 Squallcloud wrote: So hard work doesn't deserve a salary because it's a videogame? O_o Deserving something or not, its kinda useless to talk of that. People cant get paid just because they put effort into something, theres got to be a demand for that work. | ||
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29 fps
United States5724 Posts
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alffla
Hong Kong20321 Posts
On April 11 2010 23:47 MrHoon wrote: I'm wondering how much of a shitstorm this would cause in Korea if someone translated this to Korean and posted it all over DCinside and shit u could do it oO_ | ||
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miseiler
United States1389 Posts
On April 11 2010 23:52 29 fps wrote: luckily we only bet on liquibet and lose out there. others are losing real cash on this. sad news for esports. ::crickets:: | ||
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On April 11 2010 23:47 MrHoon wrote: I'm wondering how much of a shitstorm this would cause in Korea if someone translated this to Korean and posted it all over DCinside and shit I dunno if this would cause much of a stir seeing as there have already been posts about this in Korea with basically the same details. I mean to them Rekrul is just a random white guy. | ||
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Grobyc
Canada18410 Posts
On April 11 2010 23:10 Antisocialmunky wrote: I wonder if someone finally got pissed at losing money on Savior and busted his caps? ![[image loading]](http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/potato/beatdown.jpg) WHERE MY MONEY AT | ||
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pheus
Australia161 Posts
On April 11 2010 23:47 Puosu wrote: It is when you've worked for years 12 hours a day towards that, and that kind of salary is not a standard. Most of the not top players make something like 10k a year if that. I guess it's like an aspiring musician - you have to "make it" to earn real money. If you work 14 hours a day for 50 years but your music sucks no one is ever going to buy it. You wouldn't say that person is owed a pay upgrade. Similarly, a progamer who never breaks out of the low ranks does not deserve more pay just because they have been trying for longer. Lets face it, their job is to perform a recreational activity. They aren't crunching numbers all day as accountants, they aren't washing dishes, they are playing a video game. Getting paid to have fun, even if it isn't fun 100% of the time, is better than what most of us have to do every day. That said, if these low level progamers are making enough money for the proteams / tv networks that a significant pay upgrade would be justified - yeah, that is fucked up. Does anyone actually know how much of a pro team, or even the TV station's revenue would be attributable to a low level progamer on a yearly basis? | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
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gds
Iceland1391 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3982/27596481.jpg) | ||
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JaimeR
148 Posts
On April 11 2010 23:32 JohannesH wrote: So when did Savior start with this... This would be interesting to find out, whether it was pre or post Bisu? Now that I think of it, he did talk up the fact that he would beat Bisu 3:0 quite highly, almost as if he deviously knew that wouldn't be the case. I actually posted in the LR thread back then under my former username (now banned) that Savior must have bet against himself, but I was just kidding around as I presumed that couldn't possibly be it (considering Bisu was able to get through Nalra). Now I'm not so sure. On April 11 2010 23:46 prog.ress wrote: The list wasn't as ridiculous as I worried it would be, but the fact that you have big names like Savior and current players like Luxury and Yarnc, as well as another possible 15 players, makes this really depressing news. Like Rekrul said, any losses now are going to be second-guessed. What a way to make the transition to SC2. :/ The situation has pretty much undercuts the validity of the SC2 pro-game scene before it's even been launched. Will enough safeguards be put into place in order to assure potential fans and sponsors that the tournaments are worth following? Will we only see team matches and no more individual leagues, given that it is harder for an entire team (that has to have players good enough to enter in the first place) to be in on a scandal? I somehow doubt ACE would be able to pull it off as no-one would bet in their favour anyway. Perhaps I'm going too far to imagine that this is enough to destroy any SC2 E-sport potential given that other sports with notorious match fixing (e.g. kickboxing) are still up and kicking. | ||
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Puosu
6984 Posts
On April 12 2010 00:10 gds wrote: erm, what? Not that YellOw, its not worth paying that yellow to lose in purpose since .. like the dawn of time. | ||
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lgd-haze
Sweden547 Posts
I know that the pressure being on stage and such is pretty big and might influence their play quite alot. I'm just sickened and paranoid now about this whole corruption mess. | ||
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King K. Rool
Canada4408 Posts
The memories of when I cheered for them and looked up to them still remain. | ||
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JaimeR
148 Posts
Makes you wonder if Jangbi might be another one, given that his in-house practice games always get talked up. Samsung players seem to be clean so far though - and judging from her aggressive interviews January is a bitch you wouldn't want to cross. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia13004 Posts
Has there ever been a hotter favourite in BW history to win such a series? | ||
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HopLight
Sweden999 Posts
On April 12 2010 00:17 RowdierBob wrote: Imagine how much Savior could have made from that Bisu MSL final. Has there ever been a hotter favourite in BW history to win such a series? Especially betting 0-3. | ||
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JaimeR
148 Posts
On April 12 2010 00:15 King K. Rool wrote: Even if they threw matches. The memories of when I cheered for them and looked up to them still remain. Even if they were pedophiles. The memories of when I praised their sermons and looked to them for holy inspiration still remain. | ||
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King K. Rool
Canada4408 Posts
On April 12 2010 00:19 JaimeR wrote: Even if they were pedophiles. The memories of when I praised their sermons and looked to them for holy inspiration still remain. And so they do. | ||
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SuperArc
Austria7781 Posts
He pretty much destroyed every player to make people start believing in him again and bet on him and then loses all games again. | ||
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Puosu
6984 Posts
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riptide
5673 Posts
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JaimeR
148 Posts
On April 12 2010 00:25 SuperArc wrote: This would also explain savior's short dominance in February last year. He pretty much destroyed every player to make people start believing in him again and bet on him and then loses all games again. It'd actually be pretty fucking amazing if Savior could actually beat players like Flash, Jaedong and Stork if he wanted to but just decided that winning nerd hearts means fuck all and he'd rather have money to spend on whore pussy. Kind of like how N'Synch hire security guard type people to scan for hot 18 year old chicks at their concerts to take backstage and back to their hotels and they're not really in it (or are too afraid of having their asses hauled to jail) for their legions of 13 year old fans. | ||
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
On April 12 2010 00:14 lgd-haze wrote: Would this be the case for guys like Ruby, Tempest and such? They rape the shit out of practice games, and it gets public. Then they suddenly choke on the stage, and doesnt deliver anything. I know that the pressure being on stage and such is pretty big and might influence their play quite alot. I'm just sickened and paranoid now about this whole corruption mess. Nah it's not as likely for them cause they're the underdogs in most matches so it wouldn't really be worth it for them to throw the match. There's just alot of people really bad under pressure | ||
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ZZangDreamjOy
Canada959 Posts
Luxury and YanrC though, they go from being top ZvZ players, ok ZvP players, and amazing ZvT players to shit in all three mu's, and a lot of the games looked really weird. I donnou, I think this is all true. | ||
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pewny
Sweden27 Posts
I was practicly in love with savior and where always hoping he would step up and destroy everyone again but instead he does shit like this ><. Instabonerkill thx for the info tho | ||
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Kwanroller
Afghanistan459 Posts
On April 12 2010 00:17 RowdierBob wrote: Imagine how much Savior could have made from that Bisu MSL final. Has there ever been a hotter favourite in BW history to win such a series? Really, a massive win-win situation for Savior. Not only does he get mad cash from betting against himself, every single CJ and zerg fanboy will shower him with a never ending rain of pity support. | ||
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SkytoM
Austria1137 Posts
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barth
Ireland1272 Posts
My view of progaming right now is a little distorted. Hopefully there will be more info fairly soon. I still hope this is a great joke from Rekrul but considering the new proleague format and all the recent fuss it does not look like it. | ||
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pheus
Australia161 Posts
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Prof. Protoss
Germany744 Posts
sry I trolled in your last thread :O (If Rekruls rumors are true) Am I the only one who's thinking Savior is even more badass now? Although I'd be disappointed at the same time I think it's pretty cool :D Still needs to be punished. I gotta watch infernal affairs this evening! | ||
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s.a.y
Croatia3840 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On April 12 2010 00:49 Prof. Protoss wrote: (If Rekruls rumors are true) Am I the only one who's thinking Savior is even more badass now? He's so powerful he can crush your soul through the internet. ;/ | ||
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hyst.eric.al
United States2332 Posts
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StRyKeR
United States1739 Posts
On April 12 2010 00:25 Puosu wrote: I see this video so differently now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNqrvSXCzWU&feature=related I was thinking the exact same thing! Back then, people were saying that Savior was reminiscing his good old days when winning wasn't a rare occurrence, and that's why he was wistfully sitting around after winning Proleague. Now, it could be sooo many other things. Maybe he bet against himself super big but had to win for the team and was pissed he missed out on big money. Or maybe he actually enjoyed winning for his team and legitimately felt happy, but knew deep inside that he had thrown games and can never return as a true player. This news is so sad lol | ||
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hyst.eric.al
United States2332 Posts
the news makes me sad, though. savior is such a huge disappointment, really. AND JUSTIN LOL he is, and will always be in my eyes, a giant faggot. | ||
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Kage
India788 Posts
Till Rekrul made drunken videos. | ||
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
Watching a drunk dude in bad quality repeat himself was kind of so-so | ||
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Dgtl
Canada889 Posts
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Amnesia
United States3818 Posts
On April 12 2010 00:56 hyst.eric.al wrote: lol... the news makes me sad, though. savior is such a huge disappointment, really. AND JUSTIN LOL he is, and will always be in my eyes, a giant faggot. What's even funnier is he is a RING LEADER...rofl | ||
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Ghardo
Germany1685 Posts
On April 11 2010 22:27 GTR wrote: i was looking through my old backup cd's and for some reason i have rek in korea videos like him drinking commander vodka or something like that. maybe i should upload. it's still up on youtube uploaded by jacen :p thanks for the info rekrul! hope you're not only doing it for the drama effect but because you want to shed truuuuuuth ;p | ||
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Bebop07
United States291 Posts
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sixghost
United States2096 Posts
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On April 12 2010 01:12 sixghost wrote: I love how savior fans are using this to justify every loss he's ever had now. | ||
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Garnet
Vietnam9014 Posts
"I will destroy everyone in 2009" my ass, obviously he thought if he stopped rigging matches he could own everyone again, but failed miserably. Midas fighting!!! | ||
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Foreplay
United States1154 Posts
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On April 12 2010 01:19 Foreplay wrote: so does this mean that savior isn't bad? I don't get people reasoning like this? Why would he keep losing, it's not like he's winning money from it anymore. He's just bad right now. | ||
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SkelA
Macedonia13032 Posts
Remember the news about Upmagic, Luxury and few others being droped out from A teams and Savior "knee" problem . | ||
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JoeSaddles
United States344 Posts
I think these videos were OK for a while but should have been a bit shorter | ||
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JoeSaddles
United States344 Posts
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Mobius
Canada1268 Posts
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fnaticNoname
India858 Posts
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Trap
United States395 Posts
Oh Savior. | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On April 12 2010 01:22 JoeSaddles wrote: I don't see why some ppl are so shocked by this... it's happened in every sport you can ever think of, and from what I've heard of Korea sC:BW is pretty much considered a sport there. I think these videos were OK for a while but should have been a bit shorter Because we all see progamers as these honorable pros who loves their game over anything, even over money. | ||
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JoeSaddles
United States344 Posts
On April 12 2010 01:28 Zoler wrote: Because we all see progamers as these honorable pros who loves their game over anything, even over money. thats true .. but there always seems to be a few bad seeds amongst the people who actually have respect for the game.. I guess all they can do is weed out the offenders and punish them... make it a lesson to anyone else who's thinking about trying to make money off illegal betting and etc... | ||
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Kyuukyuu
Canada6263 Posts
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Bebop07
United States291 Posts
On April 12 2010 01:27 Trap wrote: lol that was hilarious. But thinking these kids really care about a video game over money..you gotta be kidding. I mean that'd be awesome but thats insane to really believe. I mean the game is fun but I'd take 1,000$ to never even play it again.This is like finding out Jesus took out a massive life insurance policy on himself before he got crucified and resurrected. Oh Savior. | ||
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Mobius
Canada1268 Posts
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Ghardo
Germany1685 Posts
On April 12 2010 01:32 Bebop07 wrote: lol that was hilarious. But thinking these kids really care about a video game over money..you gotta be kidding. I mean that'd be awesome but thats insane to really believe. I mean the game is fun but I'd take 1,000$ to never even play it again. out. | ||
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JoeSaddles
United States344 Posts
On April 12 2010 01:32 Bebop07 wrote: lol that was hilarious. But thinking these kids really care about a video game over money..you gotta be kidding. I mean that'd be awesome but thats insane to really believe. I mean the game is fun but I'd take 1,000$ to never even play it again. rofl..... fail... this "video game" is what made them their money in the first place!!!!! ???????? | ||
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Puosu
6984 Posts
On April 12 2010 01:32 Bebop07 wrote: lol that was hilarious. But thinking these kids really care about a video game over money..you gotta be kidding. I mean that'd be awesome but thats insane to really believe. I mean the game is fun but I'd take 1,000$ to never even play it again. That's exactly why Boxer and the other oldschoolers started to play SC 12 hours a day and formed a big scene, for money. Right. Some gosu business skills there to be able to see the future like that. I don't think there's any progamer that chose to become what he is because of money, or if thats his only reason then he is a retard. Most of them did it because they were addicted to the game and saw a way to continue playing while earning a moderate income. | ||
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King K. Rool
Canada4408 Posts
On April 12 2010 01:33 Mobius wrote: I dont get it.. sAviOr bet agianst himself to lose 0-3 to bisu? then... bisu build was coincidence? im confused.. We don't know for sure. But savior losing to it did make it a revolution, regardless of whether he did throw those games or not. Perhaps he was planning to and that just made it easier? We can only speculate in the lack of any solid facts. | ||
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Bebop07
United States291 Posts
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Puosu
6984 Posts
On April 12 2010 01:39 Bebop07 wrote: Well I say that with the fact I have Beta and will buy SC2 so..yeah. Wouldn't be too hard to drop BW ROFL This thread is about PROFESSIONAL GAMERS not you out. | ||
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SleepSheep
Canada344 Posts
On April 12 2010 01:30 JoeSaddles wrote: thats true .. but there always seems to be a few bad seeds amongst the people who actually have respect for the game.. I guess all they can do is weed out the offenders and punish them... make it a lesson to anyone else who's thinking about trying to make money off illegal betting and etc... it's easy to get jaded when doing something for years without much security for the future. we don't need to go as far as to blame their characters, since many of us would do the same under those circumstances, more attention should be made to the situational factors. | ||
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Bebop07
United States291 Posts
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ghrur
United States3786 Posts
How do we know the current top players aren't cheating? Flash looks so cute so I can't blame him. And we all know he loves the game too much. ^_^ | ||
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JaimeR
148 Posts
On April 12 2010 01:41 Bebop07 wrote: You guys, I didn't say they didn't like playing BW or that isnt why they got into it cause they love it. My response was to this quote 'Because we all see progamers as these honorable pros who loves their game over anything, even over money.' Yeah yeah, don't care. On April 12 2010 01:40 Puosu wrote: This thread is about PROFESSIONAL GAMERS not you out. | ||
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Bebop07
United States291 Posts
On April 12 2010 01:40 Puosu wrote: I was making a joke, jesus christ. Okay keep on believing these guys are noble warriors engaging in wars across the universe to save their races and conquer the galaxies.. Give me a fucking break lol. ROFL This thread is about PROFESSIONAL GAMERS not you out. | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On April 12 2010 00:11 JaimeR wrote: This would be interesting to find out, whether it was pre or post Bisu? Now that I think of it, he did talk up the fact that he would beat Bisu 3:0 quite highly, almost as if he deviously knew that wouldn't be the case. I actually posted in the LR thread back then under my former username (now banned) that Savior must have bet against himself, but I was just kidding around as I presumed that couldn't possibly be it (considering Bisu was able to get through Nalra). Now I'm not so sure. The situation has pretty much undercuts the validity of the SC2 pro-game scene before it's even been launched. Will enough safeguards be put into place in order to assure potential fans and sponsors that the tournaments are worth following? Will we only see team matches and no more individual leagues, given that it is harder for an entire team (that has to have players good enough to enter in the first place) to be in on a scandal? I somehow doubt ACE would be able to pull it off as no-one would bet in their favour anyway. Perhaps I'm going too far to imagine that this is enough to destroy any SC2 E-sport potential given that other sports with notorious match fixing (e.g. kickboxing) are still up and kicking. look at baseball, survived not only an entire finals being fixed but also widespread steroid abuse later on | ||
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Kyuukyuu
Canada6263 Posts
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Squallcloud
France466 Posts
On April 12 2010 01:37 Puosu wrote: That's exactly why Boxer and the other oldschoolers started to play SC 12 hours a day and formed a big scene, for money. Right. Some gosu business skills there to be able to see the future like that. I don't think there's any progamer that chose to become what he is because of money, or if thats his only reason then he is a retard. Most of them did it because they were addicted to the game and saw a way to continue playing while earning a moderate income. At the start sure, but now there's money to make in Broodwar. Is it that hard to think that some "kids" play dreaming to be a cool progamer with money and a lot of pretty admiring fangirls? | ||
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Bebop07
United States291 Posts
On April 12 2010 01:45 Kyuukyuu wrote: Whats the point?How to miss the point over and over again, by Bebop07 | ||
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Ash
Malaysia1978 Posts
Frankly speaking those who say progamers are underpaid so it makes sense that they'd be tempted by offer like these. That's all true and understandable but c'mon? Savior was fucking dominant at 2006-2007 era. He made a lot by winning several titles, I also recall CJ giving him a high pay rise when they decided to renew contract that time so there is 0 excuses for him to cheat and disappoint everyone like that. I find it really hard to believe that he threw the series against Bisu though. We all remember how Bisu build really did work and changed the whole PvZ matchup. | ||
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Bebop07
United States291 Posts
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zzangbbangddong
Antigua/Barbuda21 Posts
On April 12 2010 00:43 SkytoM wrote: Bisu vs Yellow?.. Could be a thrown game. ;; That was the best, most exciting game I have ever seen, it can't be, Yellow used a smart one-time build, and it worked. | ||
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Bebop07
United States291 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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Squallcloud
France466 Posts
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
someone should punch him the fuck out. he is such a pathetic human being and basically has fooled all of us fans. is the bisu build a coincidence etc? All the battle reports and analysis Fuck you Savior, you sorry excuse for a progamer. | ||
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Nal_rAwr
United States2611 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
On April 12 2010 02:03 Foucault wrote: what a huge douche savior is someone should punch him the fuck out. he is such a pathetic human being and basically has fooled all of us fans. is the bisu build a coincidence etc? All the battle reports and analysis Fuck you Savior, you sorry excuse for a progamer. Well, I doubt every single zerg in 2007 was involved in this conspiracy and decided to throw their games vs the bisu build. | ||
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Muirhead
United States556 Posts
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
On April 12 2010 01:46 Ash wrote: That's depressing to even think about. One of the craziest and memorable sc series could have been fixed. I find it really hard to believe that he threw the series against Bisu though. We all remember how Bisu build really did work and changed the whole PvZ matchup. | ||
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
On April 12 2010 02:13 Jyvblamo wrote: Well, I doubt every single zerg in 2007 was involved in this conspiracy and decided to throw their games vs the bisu build. Yeah I know But Rekrul also said that this thing is huge, so the extent of the gambling could potentially be enormous. The worst case situation imo, is if cheating has been so common that we won't know who've played fair and who hasn't in the end | ||
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CosmicAC
United States238 Posts
On April 11 2010 22:50 littlechava wrote: so savior did it the most, but upmagic/yarnc/lux also did it on a regular basis? and some other sparkyz players? what if leta's opponents were paid to lose LOL we should rake through their matchlists and try to figure out when they were throwing the games edit: i wonder if upmagic was paid to lose to savior in this match: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/31444_sAviOr_vs_UpMaGiC Haha, it'd be pretty interesting if two progamers were playing and both were payed to lose, lol reverse starcraft. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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OmgIRok
Taiwan2699 Posts
but considering the history of korea and all the other scandals that go on and etc. should this really be a big deal? on another note: rekrul u gained a lot of weight didnt u :x | ||
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luckygreens
United States98 Posts
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
So easy to throw games. So much money to be made on betting these games. So little money these kids make. Only inevitable that it would be done. I can only imagine this is what these progamers are being told. | ||
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ZergZoul
Mexico408 Posts
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Xiphiasar
United States78 Posts
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pyrogenetix
China5094 Posts
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Mobius
Canada1268 Posts
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On April 12 2010 00:14 lgd-haze wrote: Would this be the case for guys like Ruby, Tempest and such? They rape the shit out of practice games, and it gets public. Then they suddenly choke on the stage, and doesnt deliver anything. I know that the pressure being on stage and such is pretty big and might influence their play quite alot. I'm just sickened and paranoid now about this whole corruption mess. Everyone plays worse under pressure. Most people play a LOT worse. So it's common for people to play brilliantly in casual or practice games, then play like an idiot when something is at stake. | ||
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
Get outta jail!!!! He's just hungry =( | ||
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ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
now I'm suspecting of every CJ member... xellos, iris, effort and even skyhigh. they all started to lose a lot without a reason. you don't lose your skills like they seemed to have lost. stork, FBH, jangbi... even jaedong is losing some games he wouldnt lose... and flash with blindly 14cc's last season... oh god im paranoic now. lol the problem is, the leagues had a fragile system releasing the line-ups like a month before each match. are they going to be arrested for that? the ones caught? I wonder what would happen if 2 gamers bet against themselves in the same match LOL | ||
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JaimeR
148 Posts
On April 12 2010 02:13 Jyvblamo wrote: Well, I doubt every single zerg in 2007 was involved in this conspiracy and decided to throw their games vs the bisu build. How revolutionary exactly was the 'Bisu build' though? As far as I'm aware, Protoss were using Corsairs to snipe Overlords at the beginning of the games anyway - perhaps just not following up with Dark Templars. And 14 Nexus has been around for ages. Perhaps it was more of a placebo effect - the fact that Savior lost to it made every Protoss begin using Corsairs to begin with, allowing them to win games they otherwise would have won anyway against lesser players with any other build. At the end of the day it's not like every single Protoss suddenly became as good as Bisu - the six dragons weren't until much later. | ||
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saritenite
Singapore1680 Posts
I would love updates on this thing, Mr. Rekrul. Thanks! | ||
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On April 12 2010 03:11 ilbh wrote: now I'm suspecting of every CJ member... xellos, iris, effort and even skyhigh. they all started to lose a lot without a reason. you don't lose your skills like they seemed to have lost. stork, FBH, jangbi... even jaedong is losing some games he wouldnt lose... and flash with blindly 14cc's last season... oh god im paranoic now. lol I believe Rekrul has already covered why many top players suddenly start to lose a lot in a previous topic. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17726 Posts
On April 12 2010 02:03 Foucault wrote: what a huge douche savior is someone should punch him the fuck out. he is such a pathetic human being and basically has fooled all of us fans. is the bisu build a coincidence etc? All the battle reports and analysis Fuck you Savior, you sorry excuse for a progamer. that would be hilarious if savior was playing us the whole time | ||
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On April 12 2010 03:14 JaimeR wrote: How revolutionary exactly was the 'Bisu build' though? As far as I'm aware, Protoss were using Corsairs to snipe Overlords at the beginning of the games anyway - perhaps just not following up with Dark Templars. And 14 Nexus has been around for ages. Perhaps it was more of a placebo effect - the fact that Savior lost to it made every Protoss begin using Corsairs to begin with, allowing them to win games they otherwise would have won anyway against lesser players with any other build. At the end of the day it's not like every single Protoss suddenly became as good as Bisu - the six dragons weren't until much later. The Real Bisu Build: 1. pay your opponent to lose 2. build pylon at nat 3. win | ||
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RaGe
Belgium9947 Posts
On April 12 2010 03:00 starfries wrote: A lot of sparkz guys? I hope this doesn't mean leta too nah leta made his money by looking at the crowd during the games. | ||
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s.a.y
Croatia3840 Posts
On April 12 2010 03:23 RaGe wrote: nah leta made his money by looking at the crowd during the games. haha so mean | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
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Mobius
Canada1268 Posts
i dont get it. | ||
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King K. Rool
Canada4408 Posts
Leta was accused of crowd looking in one game. | ||
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6542 Posts
all players the same..bisu make a revolution.baby start play well,he beat all now,i dont believe un rekrul,maybe he was bored and drunk and make this video,i dont believe in this. | ||
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Mobius
Canada1268 Posts
On April 12 2010 03:40 King K. Rool wrote: Leta was accused of crowd looking in one game. ? you're not supposed to turn your gaze away from monitor or somethin? | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
money is same everywhere. | ||
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cunninglinguists
United States925 Posts
On April 12 2010 03:44 Mobius wrote: ? you're not supposed to turn your gaze away from monitor or somethin? his opponent cheesed and leta found out by looking at the excited crowd, leading to his discovery of the cheese and subsequent win. this was a big scandal a while back. | ||
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Crea
Norway3 Posts
I think the only sport where a sponsor is as important as in Starcraft is Cycling, and while there have been alot of cheating there aswell, that has all to improve their results. | ||
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Maynard
United States889 Posts
http://vodpod.com/watch/1420768-the-player-haters-ball At: 4:50 | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
This certainly didn't cause Savior to lose vs Bisu in that final. Bisu invented a build that was simply superior to the standard builds Zergs were using back then. It caused the freaking revolution and turned the world of PvZ upside down. My guess is Savior started betting against him when he was on his downfall, in matches against people he could have still beaten. | ||
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TheAntZ
Israel6248 Posts
On April 12 2010 03:41 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: this is fake news,savior can win more in starleagues,and msl, all players the same..bisu make a revolution.baby start play well,he beat all now,i dont believe un rekrul,maybe he was bored and drunk and make this video,i dont believe in this. Heres proof for anyone that didnt believe rekrul Do you really think ANYTHING this guy says EVER is correct? Pretty obviously not He says rekrul is lying, so with anyone who had doubts, heres your proof that he isnt! | ||
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MagisterMan
Sweden525 Posts
On April 12 2010 03:53 niteReloaded wrote: Don't jump to too many conclusions. This certainly didn't cause Savior to lose vs Bisu in that final. Bisu invented a build that was simply superior to the standard builds Zergs were using back then. It caused the freaking revolution and turned the world of PvZ upside down. My guess is Savior started betting against him when he was on his downfall, in matches against people he could have still beaten. The worst thing would be if we never can know if that final was tainted or not. :S | ||
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
whaaaaaa T_T T_T i hope you are trolling... | ||
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Radfield
Canada2720 Posts
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Comeh
United States18918 Posts
Drunken rekrul ranting is fun in its own right. | ||
Insane
United States4991 Posts
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Subversive
Australia2229 Posts
On April 12 2010 03:50 Crea wrote: I have problems seeing the teams themself organizing these frauds. The companies involved in starcraft are way bigger than starcraft ever will be. And every team know that the only way to keep their sponsor is to win matches. I think the only sport where a sponsor is as important as in Starcraft is Cycling, and while there have been alot of cheating there aswell, that has all to improve their results. No one said the teams were involved. So why make that assumption? | ||
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
You realize, that is exactly how the world works. Ma Jae Yoon Betting! | ||
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saritenite
Singapore1680 Posts
Kespa DQ'd Leta from a match for looking at the audience. It was a sordid affair altogether | ||
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
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Nuttyguy
United Kingdom1526 Posts
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
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ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
On April 12 2010 03:20 Bill307 wrote: I believe Rekrul has already covered why many top players suddenly start to lose a lot in a previous topic. are you talking about the argument of new players with faster hands, not burst mind, etc? if so, effort is one of those, just like skyhigh and they are losing too much for their level... I'm not saying they are cheatting, I'm just suspecting... they were the top in a day, the other day they start to lose to mediocre players I understand the reasons to cheat... like rekrul said, playing 24 hours a day, can't hang out with friends or gf, getting like 5k dollars/month, living and sleeping in group with a lot of people... and now the chance to be a millionaire? get your 2 million dollars and retires! look at yellow[arnc] for instance... there is nothing he can get from SC anymore, I bet there is no motivation left to play the same game every day just as an ordinary player. | ||
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RaGe
Belgium9947 Posts
On April 12 2010 04:17 sArite_nite wrote: Kespa DQ'd Leta from a match for looking at the audience. It was a sordid affair altogether Yeah, but there's also 2 other vods where you can clearly see him looking at the crowd to check for cheese telltales. | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17726 Posts
On April 12 2010 04:17 sArite_nite wrote: Kespa DQ'd Leta from a match for looking at the audience. It was a sordid affair altogether Are you sure about that? I thought kespa dqed leta against kal because he typed something like pp instead of ppp since his monitor turned off. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
On April 12 2010 04:33 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: Is it bad that this just endears sAviOr to me even more, because it means that there's a chance he doesn't actually suck as much balls at this game as it'd seem? No, because it makes him a scumbag | ||
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Kenpachi
United States9908 Posts
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
hm. well, I still love him, so that bandwagon isn't going anywhere near me. | ||
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QuickStriker
United States3694 Posts
On April 12 2010 04:43 Kenpachi wrote: ~_~ savior whaaat. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT.. WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT THEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE FUCK? I'm just as surprised as you are. Does that also mean we should take out the b-word out of sAviOr and replace it to a new "c-word"? I'm a huge fan of the legends but to think of a possibility to come out from sAviOr.... I'm confident BoxeR, oov and even NaDa aren't involved in these but you never know.... (nah, I doubt it, all of them been in and out constantly, especially NaDa until last year with that Lost Saga MSL... o wai...) So what does this mean for Hyuk then? I mean he's famous for "HYUKING" himself in games and getting HYUKED or having others to get HYUKED.... hmm..... | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On April 12 2010 04:46 QuickStriker wrote: I'm just as surprised as you are. Does that also mean we should take out the b-word out of sAviOr and replace it to a new "c-word"? I'm a huge fan of the legends but to think of a possibility to come out from sAviOr.... I'm confident BoxeR, oov and even NaDa aren't involved in these but you never know.... (nah, I doubt it, all of them been in and out constantly, especially NaDa until last year with that Lost Saga MSL... o wai...) So what does this mean for Hyuk then? I mean he's famous for "HYUKING" himself in games and getting HYUKED or having others to get HYUKED.... hmm..... ..I don't think sAviOr should lose his bonjwa status, as I doubt he was getting paid to lose games back when he was winning all of his games. | ||
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anderoo
Canada1876 Posts
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
On April 12 2010 04:33 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: Is it bad that this just endears sAviOr to me even more, because it means that there's a chance he doesn't actually suck as much balls at this game as it'd seem? nope, I feel the same way. | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On April 12 2010 04:55 anderoo wrote: wouldn't he get paid more to lose games back then because the odds would be more in his favour, therefore creating bigger payouts for those betting against him? yeah, he would, but unless you think that he was paid to lose the occasional game against midas, or a few games in series against nada or iris, which i just think is weird? even so, it means that the games he won in sick dominating SAVIORCRUSH fashion, were still legit wins that showed fucking masterful play | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
On April 12 2010 05:01 Boonbag wrote: How delightful would be the feeling of letting someone beat you on tv and then owning him mercilessly in practice while making 5k in the process? yeah I guess it would be if you have no morals | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17726 Posts
But at the least the players involved should have their progamers license suspended and deserve some jail time. | ||
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10341 Posts
I always wondered how Savior could get be in such a decent or even advantageous situation only to do everything in his power to throw the game away... This game in particular has been bothering me since the night I watched it live. You tell me what Savior was doing here: But I think Savior's losses to Bisu were pretty legit. | ||
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Hypnosis
United States2061 Posts
nothing important was said in that entire 20 minutes. Olympic troll | ||
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Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
On April 12 2010 05:02 MountainDewJunkie wrote: + Show Spoiler [speculation box] + I always wondered how Savior could get be in such a decent or even advantageous situation only to do everything in his power to throw the game away... This game in particular has been bothering me since the night I watched it live. You tell me what Savior was doing here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bl4MR2gVBE But I think Savior's losses to Bisu were pretty legit. That game looked pretty legit. Kal played like a beast there. | ||
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SCC-Faust
United States3736 Posts
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PanN
United States2828 Posts
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boesthius
United States11637 Posts
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
I am inclined to believe this and the sad part is we won't get to see the list of all the cheaters due to it being covered up pretty hardcore. I mean I can't blame them for keeping it on the down low, that'd cost a lot of people a lot of money. It's unlikely we'll ever see the entire truth of this unfortunate event. | ||
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gumbum8
United States721 Posts
But god this fucking sucks. I'm going to become a recluse, or migrate to some second rate site like gg. And in my head believe, that this was a joint waxangel/rekrul conspiracy. <3 savior | ||
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
On April 12 2010 05:01 Boonbag wrote: How delightful would be the feeling of letting someone beat you on tv and then owning him mercilessly in practice while making 5k in the process? lolol alot of how the guys throwing matches justify it is probably 'well i'm doing him a favor by letting him win!!!' | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On April 12 2010 01:33 Mobius wrote: I dont get it.. sAviOr bet agianst himself to lose 0-3 to bisu? then... bisu build was coincidence? im confused.. Why are people suggesting specific games and series, even random ones like Bisu vs Yellow? Fixing games doesn't mean he did it for EVERY one. And the second one is irrelevant and dunno why its even bought up. | ||
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EmeraldSparks
United States1451 Posts
now i cannot believe | ||
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Xiphos
Canada7507 Posts
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lowbright
308 Posts
there was a point when he was wemade's ace but he always lost but still, you can't be an ace if you're terrible | ||
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djcube
United States985 Posts
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AcrossFiveJulys
United States3612 Posts
This whole situation puts such a bad taste in my mouth. I wonder if Savior lost to bisu in the famous finals on purpose, and continued to "slump" in order to get more money on the side? Then, his "destroy everyone in 2009" promise may have been an attempted comeback after he was satisfied with the money he'd received, then fell back into throwing games again? | ||
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SkytoM
Austria1137 Posts
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Prof. Protoss
Germany744 Posts
On April 12 2010 03:46 niteReloaded wrote: If it happens in Bundesliga, why is it such a surprise to see it here? money is same everywhere. Are you german or why do you use "Bundesliga" as an example? | ||
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Niten
United States598 Posts
I'm hopeful that the investigation into game-throwing will lead to sending the players the message that if they do it, they might get caught and lose all the fanbase they've built. | ||
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Deleted User 37864
780 Posts
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kulik-
Czech Republic305 Posts
but true is that on IEF or what was it match between this two STX member i think hwasin and some zerg the one in lobby chat something like marine push u do just ling no sunken or smth like this... btw it reminds me this especially the end: you are just bunch of drones | ||
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Mobius
Canada1268 Posts
On April 12 2010 07:38 scyper wrote: I think this explains why Flash said he fought a very hard zerg online and it turned out to be Savior. huuh? when was this? | ||
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King K. Rool
Canada4408 Posts
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[sc1f]eonzerg
Belgium6542 Posts
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Nal_rAwr
United States2611 Posts
he's not going to throw a starleague title lmao that was pure bisu and his revoluntionary strategy | ||
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Monsen
Germany2548 Posts
Once you've reached the top- little remains to strive for. And motivating yourself to keep going ceratinly gets a lot harder. Add to that the slavery like circumstances under which a lot of progamers have to labor and the fact that after several years of winning (or not) a lot of shit- you get disillusioned about the entire progaming dream... When you started with progaming you were 12-15, nothing mattered besides the game. Now that you're older- there's girls, drugs- an entire adolencent live (which you realize you've missed so far) to explore and the knowledge that somewhere there are 12 year olds practising 18 hours a day to beat you... Easy to get corrupted. | ||
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Deleted User 37864
780 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=86469 | ||
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iFU.pauline
France1538 Posts
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zul
Germany5427 Posts
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
srsly though why are people demanding proof so much, rek wouldn't talk about this at all if there wasn't credibility behind it. this is motherfucking rekrul after all. | ||
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PanN
United States2828 Posts
On April 12 2010 08:59 LuckyFool wrote: yeah screenshot those msn convo's rek I absolutely have to see the proof I don't believe your word>!!>!> srsly though why are people demanding proof so much, rek wouldn't talk about this at all if there wasn't credibility behind it. this is motherfucking rekrul after all. I dunno, maybe because its a big claim? | ||
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
People are just trying to find ways out of believing this might be true... | ||
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Mobius
Canada1268 Posts
ahh thank you! | ||
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Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
It's almost way too effing easy to throw a match and the incentives are substantial compared to their salaries. So easy to throw a game, so many games being played all the time. 6 guys that Rek named is just the tip of the iceberg, I reckon it is more than just 18 guys rigging matches. | ||
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Asjo
Denmark664 Posts
My innocence has been ruined! :o | ||
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Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
Happens in every single sport, everywhere. | ||
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Tekin
2711 Posts
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pubbanana
United States3063 Posts
On April 12 2010 09:13 Asjo wrote: haha, it's funny, because on the other Rekrul-thread I said that only some Savior-losses could be blamed on throwing matches and not his entire slump, seeing that most people would bet against him. However, with the possibility of him betting against himself, something that was casually ruled out in the original thread, it puts things into perspect. It was quite funny how I just made it through the list of all of Diggity's commentaries, went back to the top of his uploads list, the most recent ones, watched some matches and ended up watching Best vs Savior in Winners League from the end of Janauary. Here, I just couldn't help thinking how Saviour looked very cold and calculating and at the same time didn't really seem to care. His decision-making was so horrible that I couldn't help constantly thinking that he was doing it on purpose. My innocence has been ruined! :o :o | ||
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zzangbbangddong
Antigua/Barbuda21 Posts
On April 12 2010 09:23 Tekin wrote: So does this mean the Flash losing the MSL was a rig match? hmm.. Just cause there are some bad apples doing this doesn't mean EVERY FUCKING GAME has been rigged. I'm pretty confident that flash wouldn't be involved in something like this. | ||
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cujo2k
Canada1044 Posts
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Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
It revolutionized Protoss completely. | ||
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
late drone reactions, losing to literally the same build 3 times in a row in similar ways... I'm not saying it's impossible but it definitely raises questions that seemingly have no hard answers. | ||
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DanceCommander
United States1808 Posts
On April 12 2010 01:12 sixghost wrote: I love how savior fans are using this to justify every loss he's ever had now. hahah sixghost being blunt and awesome | ||
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zgl
United States1055 Posts
If savior bet against himself and threw a match, then the bookies would lose money... and they are usually not the kind of people who would let such things go unnoticed. | ||
Spazer
Canada8029 Posts
On April 12 2010 10:25 zgl wrote: I actually doubt Savior or anybody would bet against themselves. It is more likely that they threw matches in cooperation with the bookies. If savior bet against himself and threw a match, then the bookies would lose money... and they are usually not the kind of people who would let such things go unnoticed. Just because savior's working with one bookie doesn't mean he's working with all of them. In addition, it'd be pretty easy to find a third party who would take your money and place the bet for you. | ||
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Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
On April 12 2010 10:13 LuckyFool wrote: yeah but up to that point NOBODY beat Savior. Especially not 3-0 rapes like that was. late drone reactions, losing to literally the same build 3 times in a row in similar ways... I'm not saying it's impossible but it definitely raises questions that seemingly have no hard answers. 1 week ago you'd be flamed as an idiotic moron. Now there's no answer really. Did Savior throw that finals? He could have made a ton more money on betting (huge finals, lots of people betting, Savior being the favorite). But even then. Savior coming off his huge OSL win against Nada. Never having faced such a build before. And Bisu turning out to be the real deal. He could have been completely shell shocked. | ||
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fight_or_flight
United States3988 Posts
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xbarisg
United States14 Posts
On April 12 2010 09:13 Asjo wrote: haha, it's funny, because on the other Rekrul-thread I said that only some Savior-losses could be blamed on throwing matches and not his entire slump, seeing that most people would bet against him. However, with the possibility of him betting against himself, something that was casually ruled out in the original thread, it puts things into perspect. It was quite funny how I just made it through the list of all of Diggity's commentaries, went back to the top of his uploads list, the most recent ones, watched some matches and ended up watching Best vs Savior in Winners League from the end of Janauary. Here, I just couldn't help thinking how Saviour looked very cold and calculating and at the same time didn't really seem to care. His decision-making was so horrible that I couldn't help constantly thinking that he was doing it on purpose. My innocence has been ruined! :o id guess winners league matches are less likely to be rigged because theres no way for betting sites to know what the matchups are going to be beforehand. the only betting opportunities would be the first set and who wins the series, so savior would have to be betting against cj to have any incentive to lose. maybe he just doesnt care whether he wins or loses | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17726 Posts
On April 12 2010 10:46 fight_or_flight wrote: What are the possible consequences of this type of thing if convicted in Korea? you end up with an extra hole in your body | ||
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love1another
United States1844 Posts
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jgju
United States454 Posts
My leading crazy conspiracy theory: + Show Spoiler + He was behind the betters who then paid savior off to throw a game against fbh. At this moment his true intentions were revealed: he was in it not for the money, but for the chance to humiliate savior with a crazy dance. ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/af8VJ.jpg) | ||
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d(O.o)a
Canada5066 Posts
On April 12 2010 11:01 jgju wrote: My only question is where does firebathero fit into this whole thing. My leading crazy conspiracy theory: + Show Spoiler + He was behind the betters who then paid savior off to throw a game against fbh. At this moment his true intentions were revealed: he was in it not for the money, but for the chance to humiliate savior with a crazy dance. it was me all along* and this explains the luxury chaos theory. | ||
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ZenDeX
Philippines2916 Posts
On April 12 2010 11:01 jgju wrote: My only question is where does firebathero fit into this whole thing. My leading crazy conspiracy theory: + Show Spoiler + He was behind the betters who then paid savior off to throw a game against fbh. At this moment his true intentions were revealed: he was in it not for the money, but for the chance to humiliate savior with a crazy dance. That dance was like a fuck you to all the online betting sites. | ||
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GrayArea
United States872 Posts
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getSome[703]
United States753 Posts
On April 12 2010 11:01 jgju wrote: My only question is where does firebathero fit into this whole thing. My leading crazy conspiracy theory: + Show Spoiler + He was behind the betters who then paid savior off to throw a game against fbh. At this moment his true intentions were revealed: he was in it not for the money, but for the chance to humiliate savior with a crazy dance. Oh god I loled. I love this | ||
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Comeh
United States18918 Posts
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jgju
United States454 Posts
Oh goodness >_< I'm ashamed of myself for getting this wrong. | ||
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
On April 12 2010 11:26 Comeh wrote: This thread is a perfect observation of the amazing influence (with good reason) that rekrul commands in the starcraft universe. He basically says "People are rigging because I have people that say so". I'm not saying I don't believe hi, but its fairly amusing none the less. LOL | ||
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Denotate
Canada294 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i42.tinypic.com/zk01hv.jpg) Edit: I challenge anyone to dispute the story now. | ||
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dronebabo
10866 Posts
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zzangbbangddong
Antigua/Barbuda21 Posts
On April 12 2010 11:33 Denotate wrote: Edit: I challenge anyone to dispute the story now. I clicked at least 100 times. | ||
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pikaaarrr :3
United States593 Posts
lolol i did also, even after reading what zzang's response xD | ||
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blahman3344
United States2015 Posts
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Garnet
Vietnam9014 Posts
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.risingdragoon
United States3021 Posts
hotbid and I don't have to hate on each other anymore, I try to kill him he try to ban me. both of our guys are fucking cheats. savior's the much bigger fucking cheat but whatever. FUCK | ||
Xxio
Canada5565 Posts
That being said, for someone like Savior it's just pure greed. Anyways, if it's true, which I'm sure it is (but to what extent, who knows), hopefully it will go mainstream into the news and KeSPA will get into some dire position and re-negotiate with Blizzard over SCII terms | ||
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Denotate
Canada294 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i41.tinypic.com/17cmmv.jpg) | ||
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
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zzangbbangddong
Antigua/Barbuda21 Posts
On April 12 2010 12:04 Denotate wrote: More proof: Oh you. | ||
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oo_xerox
United States852 Posts
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oo_xerox
United States852 Posts
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahhaah omg i cant stop laughing | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Denotate
Canada294 Posts
Gotta keep my PS skills honed for bannermaking. Also, if I had a webcam, I'd be SO quick to get drunk and talk all about the New World Order. | ||
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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
On April 12 2010 12:04 Denotate wrote: More proof: This is pure win. | ||
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Scaramanga
Australia8090 Posts
On April 12 2010 05:05 Hypnosis wrote: LOL nothing important was said in that entire 20 minutes. Olympic troll So fomos and korean people are in on it with rekrul aswell to epicly get teamliquid? Can people please stop posting shit like "NO PROOF MUST BE TROLL" and read through both threads properly | ||
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years
Costa Rica216 Posts
On April 12 2010 12:33 Scaramanga wrote: So fomos and korean people are in on it with rekrul aswell to epicly get teamliquid? Can people please stop posting shit like "NO PROOF MUST BE TROLL" and read through both threads properly You know, that could be quite as big as this scandal being true. | ||
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NET
United States703 Posts
Not too surprised, but I hope non of my favorite players are into any of that business. | ||
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]343[
United States10328 Posts
On April 12 2010 12:33 Scaramanga wrote: So fomos and korean people are in on it with rekrul aswell to epicly get teamliquid? Can people please stop posting shit like "NO PROOF MUST BE TROLL" and read through both threads properly sorry I am so confused, but where's the other thread about this? | ||
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Zozma
United States1626 Posts
On April 12 2010 13:31 ]343[ wrote: There are a couple more threads, which are also under "recommended threads". The other thread everyone keeps talking about is another Rekrul blog, "I was wrong".sorry I am so confused, but where's the other thread about this? | ||
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lazz
Australia3119 Posts
You have no idea how many fucking times i tried to click on this shit. | ||
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Frost
Korea (South)1042 Posts
http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/view.daily?idx=25015 http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/view.daily?idx=25012 http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/view.daily?idx=25011 http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/view.daily?idx=25010 http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/view.daily?idx=25009 There's your proof guys. | ||
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lazz
Australia3119 Posts
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]343[
United States10328 Posts
google translate says: Illegal betting sites and some of its best-known professional gamer has been confirmed that the involved. The illegal betting site for professional geimdan pyeolchideon Affairs during the jujeongeup players understand that they were related. Illegal betting site or a player is in contact with a professional geimdan known to be seen as attempts to investigate their own professional geimdan entered into. Receiving money from betting sites involved in match-fixing Was more or replay files weeks before they get their hands on players in the process of investigating several players who worked under consideration of the intent to defeat or weeks have caught the replay file as geonnaen geimdan its players by those known to be standing on a drill. The players initially denied the charges, but in geimdan trading account and keep up the pressure to investigate the charges and confessed to recognize known. Geimdan related to the confederates, such as retirement or cleanup the release went on. 2 weeks ago, as well as groups of players involved in illegal betting sites known fact that exposed naked. On April 12 2010 14:43 Frost wrote: http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/view.daily?idx=25015 http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/view.daily?idx=25012 http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/view.daily?idx=25011 http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/view.daily?idx=25010 http://esports.dailygame.co.kr/news/view.daily?idx=25009 There's your proof guys. 25009: + Show Spoiler [Prosecutors investigating illegal bett…] + [Daily e-sports namyunseong News] Site - The broker seemed focused naesahal Prosecution for illegal betting site has identify the investigation would proceed. Daily e-sports article last February hwahan 'mushrooming illegal betting sites',' e to the invaded within sport (see Article seen Feb. 2) and perceived seriousness of the problem illegal betting site, prosecutors launched an investigation. The scope of the investigation and prosecution relating to e-sports betting site seems to be general. e-sports because the official athletic sport do not you find a professional league for individuals is an ongoing source of money in bets is illegal. Betting sites based overseas operations in the server, or spreading in the form of blogs, such as cafes, tacitly seems to track the progress of the betting sites. Also in connection with cash bets Pro geimdan or attempted to contact players and brokers are likely to increase also in the investigation board. 25010: + Show Spoiler [(Planning) e sport 'Black Sox Scandal…] + [Daily e-sports namyunseong News] jujeongeup players yeonruseol illegal betting sites e sports betting site on the rampant illegal and in direct contact with athletes attempt prompted the Black Sox scandal is rising as signs of spreading. As the largest scandal in Major League Baseball called 'Black Sox incident happened in the 1919 World Series is fixing scandal. Chicago White Sox against the Cincinnati Reds game was brought deliberately raised dwaetgo theories on the payroll at the time was involved with gamblers, no doubt was brought to play a significant spread deliberately. Eventually, the case proceeds to court, been fighting the Chicago White Sox players involved in 8 patients confirmed as the permanent ban was suspended. Starcraft league with a focus on personal and professional leagues that are circulating in the penalty jojakseol. The current law is illegal, betting site, the center was trying to contact a professional gamer and an individual relating to this match-fixing took place and the intention to defeat them identified. Some of the players from betting sites earlier this year have been implicated in the writings of the information, raising suspicions of fans was fraudulent. e illegal sports betting sites are rampant in baseball and football, basketball, volleyball, etc. are being implemented, such as Sports Toto is the distance from bokpyo business. Sports-related bokpyo business was recognized as an official sport by the state business being allowed, but e-sports because sports are still officially not peering bokpyo business. In addition to consumer e-sports tier because the 10 's 20 daeyigi encourage meandering castle is indisputable that the betting is illegal. Existence, but recently pro illegal betting site geimdan or attempt to contact players directly to the issues that are caught in the situation that is spreading. Starcraft is one of the Team and Individual Based on a penalty has been formed. Some players know each other prior notice and spread the confrontation because, unlike other sports, is likely to seonghaenghal illegal bets. Illegal betting site offers cash to players and officials of intentionally losing a major player in the strategy of encouraging or receive a file containing the replays and the showdown could determine Handing elements provided by the charges have been filed. And some are actually a major player in geimdan involvement was confirmed. Knowingly receiving money while working as a broker and let me win every competition they take the money while players are also known to be a case has been spread. e-sports, representing StarCraft leagues illegal betting site due to the transparency, a fatal blow to the mouth while Black Sox scandal may grow is raising concerns that the center South Korea e-Sports Association is a professional league to change the way through the system to improve launched. The material in e-sports betting is illegal to crack down on illegal sites in order to strengthen the illegal betting site dedicated to finding and hiring personnel in coordination with the Ministry of Culture and disclosed through the action plan for the site closed and continuous Change the address of knowing your members to secure the site for an organization operating in the investigation are requested to prepare such a strong action. 25011: + Show Spoiler [(Planning) What the hell good is an il…] + [Daily e-sports namyunseong News] Pro-League to change the operating mode and seemed to greater wavelength Korea e-Sports Association is a professional league 4 or 5 rounds from the entry, decided not to disclose an illegal betting site in the background became known as the problem has attracted a lot of attention. The problem of illegal betting on the site daily through e-sports blitz was raised (seen Feb. 2 article ▶ ◆ ▶ ◆ illegal mushrooming illegal betting site sports betting site, e ▶ ◆ Association of intrusion to the inside, "an illegal betting cope") . Given rise to mushrooming illegal betting sites, but not based on domestic rather than overseas addresses are operating leverage and variant forms such as blogs and as a cafe and have conducted business also is not easy to find. The actual procedure, they geimdan and going out on direct contact with professional gamers and the results showed a movement to engage said. In fact, professional athletes geimdan official entry to the e-mails to know in advance and promised to compensate the amount of professional gamers, while knowingly been identified as jyeodalraneun may request. Replays of two groups of players, who give star players with a reasonable amount is said to have a proposal to transfer. Seriousness of the situation grew, Korea e-Sports Association had released a pre-entry and decided to change the traditional approach. Entry in the field can be made public and illegal betting in this room can be cut. Association of Professional League entry made public in a way changed the way that 2006 nyeonbu Center. By releasing the matchup with the audience and enhance the interest of the fans pull jipgaekeul reply, but as rampant illegal betting sites because it is being exploited in the past have decided to return way. These measures concern is rising about. Betting sites, and regulatory sanctions, if not inherently different ways to proceed are still bets are able to give them possession. In fact, the winners met in the way of players and I stand in advanced three rounds, winning bets in a way that advanced to the suits had been confirmed. E-sports betting is illegal association with the material to crack down on illegal sites in order to strengthen the illegal betting site dedicated to finding and hiring staff through cooperation with the Ministry of Culture and disclosed on the site said the lockdown would take . Another alternative, members continue to change the address, the operating organization to ensure that the investigation commissioned for the site and plans to take strong action. 25012: + Show Spoiler [(Planning) illegal betting seems to ha…] + [Daily e-sports namyunseong News] attempted match-fixing ... replay files, such as drain Illegal betting site, has been involved in the ex-pro gamer is emerging theories. Recent aspects of the ongoing illegal betting site that understands the industry if it is not difficult to drain the information you want to get up to detect motion alleged. Illegal sports betting site, only the silk e does not exist. Baseball and soccer, basketball, volleyball and qualified sports professional sports across the process, but e had just not recognized as an official sport in the country recognized sports, such as Toto bokpyo project does not proceed. In addition, e-sports, is active in the sector StarCraft tournament one of the most progress in an exhibition because it is easy to operate betting sites has exposed weaknesses. Recently, while rampant illegal betting sites player match-fixing or intention to direct incoming requests, such as losing a sense of context was. Industry officials are trying to contact players directly against the former group are likely to peurogeyimeoil is offering an opinion. e-sports have knowledge or experience, as well as players to get acquainted with the now firmly pull the penalty and the claim is related to the information. The clan also an amateur trying to get similar information in the form shown has been known to attempt. Junpeurogeyimeoga to be operated by an amateur rehearsal pro geimdan into two groups to live and replays of the players and the other geimdan ppaedolridorok tempted to hand him over to a broker in the role of a known context. In fact, some pro geimdan players coming and these movements of personnel through an internal jeongrihan was confirmed. 25015: + Show Spoiler [(Planning) illegal betting site backgr…] + [Daily e-sports namyunseong News] Association geimdan happen ... 'hush' Rampant illegal betting site, accusing the context of professional gamers were discovered geimdan Korea e-Sports Association and the Pro are struggling in the late measures. While some early containment fail to manage the association and the players loose geimdan also said the charge is coming. Association of rampant illegal betting sites are aware of the fact that the background did not actively hagodo difficult to escape the blame. Daily e-sports is the last in February in connection with illegal betting site Press Association site let's hunt and those involved in the investigation and asked the prosecution. Association for the illegal betting site for a while despite the perceived immediate investigation can not proceed with a limited emphasis has been put off chailpiil. As a result, some have been implicated in the context of professional gamers as revealed by the association to respond aggressively if only I had pre-containment, the situation would not have been spread criticism is rising. Geimdan the players did not properly managed to avoid the blame is difficult. Illegal betting to players from the site can contact did not recognize the possibility can not be true were consistent with the speculation. Then over the course of due diligence related to internal self-deureonaja could not conceal his embarrassment. Players receive a salary from the two armies or related to a trainee as online players that do not have the professionalism it is pointed out. Most of the players joined the professional geimdan 10 regular high school late and are often uneducated. While taking advantage of the younger players to have professional training did not mind the responsibility of the company and has geimdan. Harsh treatment of players not receiving salaries also rose on the chopping block. A group of players and only two gunegeneun Salary Salary is not a contract of the current practices of brokers operating an illegal betting site black to resist the temptation to widely but the difference is the hard reality. Association and the late geimdan illegal betting site with law enforcement agencies and personnel, but could find it through the grapevine that people pointed out that escape is difficult. | ||
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Frost
Korea (South)1042 Posts
Finally, investigations are on the way. The teams could be blamed partially for paying A team members their salaries on time while neglecting the B team members and the practice members. It is understandable that these neglected members of the teams would accept such offers from betting sites out of desparation. Current programmers are involved in the scandal and the teams are making preparations to have these players retire or be kicked from the team after getting confessions from the players themselves. | ||
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22251 Posts
On April 12 2010 14:49 Frost wrote: Current programmers are invovled in the scandal and the teams are making preparations to have them retire or be kicked from the team after getting confessions from the players themselves. Wow, nice. | ||
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Frost
Korea (South)1042 Posts
I don't think they will really kick the players involved though. Also, I WAS THE ONE WHO SUPPLIED THE PROOFS OH YEAH. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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Frost
Korea (South)1042 Posts
On April 12 2010 14:59 krndandaman wrote: Damn... byebye Luxury, Upmagic, Hyvaa, Savior, etc. the comments are brutally hilarious. "To think we called him bonjwa..." "Dirty fucking kids who already only know money. Enjoy the bean rice. (Rice you get in jail)" "Have a good trip hahahahah" I am just happy that Savior does not suck as much as we thought him to be. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
-- On April 12 2010 15:01 Frost wrote: I am just happy that Savior does not suck as much as we thought him to be. he probably does now. After all, if you're planning to lose the game anyways, why even practice for it? Just go clubbing and hope you don't get demoted to b-team I have lost all respect for a player who has been my favorite since I started watching starcraft. I feel abandoned. | ||
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kyophan
United States113 Posts
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]343[
United States10328 Posts
On April 12 2010 15:07 kyophan wrote: Any of them still in msl or osl? Does that mean free win? the ones that have been mentioned (savior, lux/yarnc, up, justin) are gone from both starleagues edit: wait, hyvaa might be implicated but is still in (??) | ||
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Luddite
United States2315 Posts
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pubbanana
United States3063 Posts
But it still bothered me. Other than that, good job. | ||
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
On April 12 2010 14:59 krndandaman wrote: Damn... byebye Luxury, Upmagic, Hyvaa, Savior, etc. the comments are brutally hilarious. "To think we called him bonjwa..." "Dirty fucking kids who already only know money. Enjoy the bean rice. (Rice you get in jail)" "Have a good trip hahahahah" mentioned hyvaa in article? If so who are the etc you speak of that were also mentioned? | ||
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GTR
51424 Posts
this is an image of one of the betting sites, note it isn't really well made and seems to be hosted on naver's cafe system ![[image loading]](http://img.dailygame.co.kr/news/201004/attachments/20100412_fd5a357261559e914ada0ba439b19cd6.jpg) | ||
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Frost
Korea (South)1042 Posts
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Frost
Korea (South)1042 Posts
On April 12 2010 15:25 GTR wrote: daily e-sports just released a five part opinion piece on this this is an image of one of the betting sites, note it isn't really well made and seems to be hosted on naver's cafe system Daily Esports blocked the articles earlier. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 12 2010 15:11 Luddite wrote: In a way, this kinda means savior was even better than anyone thought. Because not only was he dominating, he was dominating despite deliberately losing some times. His true win rate should have been even higher than it was. I doubt that he was throwing games while he was still rising--dunno if these betting places would have the foresight to approach him before he reached bonjwa-level dominance. | ||
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Frost
Korea (South)1042 Posts
On April 12 2010 15:27 krndandaman wrote: Not in the article, but in the comments. Some guy was like "Savior, Luxury, Sangho, Yellow[arnc], Hyvaa, Upmagic, who else?" Yellow[arnc] is not a real suspect yet. Also, some of the retired players are suspected to be involved in this scandal. (Working as brokers, setting up the larger rings, etc.) A news even more surprising: Amateur clan members who wanted to get into the teams were involved in destroying/relocating the replays of the matches that were fixed. | ||
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zgl
United States1055 Posts
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LeperKahn
Romania1837 Posts
On April 12 2010 15:01 fusionsdf wrote: makes you wonder about http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=68478 -- he probably does now. After all, if you're planning to lose the game anyways, why even practice for it? Just go clubbing and hope you don't get demoted to b-team I have lost all respect for a player who has been my favorite since I started watching starcraft. I feel abandoned. Agreed, Savior was the reason I got into proscene starcraft. I really don't know what to think. | ||
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krndandaman
Mozambique16569 Posts
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JadeFist
United States1225 Posts
On April 12 2010 15:30 zgl wrote: Since he already sold out, Savior might as well sell his story to VH1 - behind the gamer. oh god... | ||
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Ftrunkz
Australia2474 Posts
this would actually be so funny. Does korea have the same (lame) obsession with fallen idols as america? If they do i demand translations of that program of savior goes on it! | ||
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [Article 1] + 불법 베팅 사이트와 관련해 유명 프로게이머 일부가 연루된 것으로 확인됐다. 프로게임단이 불법 베팅 사이트에 대해 내사를 펼치던 중에 주전급 선수들이 관련된 것으로 파악됐다. 불법 베팅 사이트가 프로게임단이나 선수들과 접촉 시도를 보인 것으로 알려지면서 프로게임단은 자체 조사에 들어갔다. 베팅 사이트로부터 돈을 받고 승부 조작에 가담했더나 리플레이 파일을 빼돌린 선수들을 조사하는 과정에서 주전으로 활동하던 몇몇 선수들이 대가를 받고 고의 패배를 하거나 주전들의 리플레이 파일을 건낸 것으로 발각되면서 게임단은 해당 선수들을 정리하는 수순을 밟고 있는 것으로 알려졌다. 이 선수들은 당초 혐의를 부인했지만 게임단에서 거래 통장을 조사하는 등 압박을 가하자 혐의를 인정하고 자백한 것으로 알려졌다. 관련 게임단은 가담자를 은퇴하거나 방출하는 등 정리작업에 들어갔다. 주전 뿐만 아니라 2군 선수들도 불법 베팅 사이트에 가담한 사실이 드러나 옷을 벗은 것으로 알려졌다. + Show Spoiler [Article 2] + 불법 베팅 사이트가 성행하면서 프로게이머들이 연루됐다는 정황이 발견되자 한국e스포츠협회과 프로게임단들은 뒤늦게 대책마련에 고심하고 있다. 일각에서는 일찌감치 발본색원하지 못한 협회와 선수 관리에 느슨했던 게임단이 책임져야 한다는 지적이 나오고 있다. 협회는 불법 베팅 사이트가 성행하고 있다는 사실을 인지하고도 적극적으로 나서지 않았다는 비난을 면하기 어렵다. 지난 2월 데일리e스포츠가 불법 베팅 사이트와 관련해 보도하자 협회는 해당 사이트 색출과 관련자 수사를 검찰에 요청했다. 협회는 불법 베팅 사이트에 대해 인지한 지 꽤 되었음에도 불구하고 직접적인 수사를 진행할 수 없다는 한계를 강조하면서 차일피일 미뤄왔다. 그 결과 일부 프로게이머가 연루되어 있는 정황이 드러나면서 협회가 적극적으로 대응하고 사전에 발본색원했더라면 사태가 확산되지 않았을 것이라는 비판이 일고 있다. 게임단도 선수 관리를 제대로 하지 못했다는 비난을 피하기 어렵다. 선수들이 불법 베팅 사이트로 부터 접촉할 수 있다는 가능성을 인지하지 못했고 그럴 리 없다는 추측으로 일관했다. 그러다 내부 실사를 거치면서 관련자가 드러나자 당혹스러움을 감추지 못했다. 연봉을 받는 선수부터 2군이나 온라인 연습생까지 연관되면서 선수들이 프로 정신을 갖추지 못한 것도 지적되고 있다. 프로게임단에 입단하는 선수들은 대부분 10대 후반이고 정규 고등 교육을 받지 못한 경우가 많다. 나이 어린 선수들을 활용하면서도 프로 마인드를 갖도록 교육하지 못한 책임은 기업과 게임단에 있다. 연봉을 받지 못하는 선수들의 열악한 처우도 도마 위에 올랐다. 1군 선수들에게만 연봉을 주고 2군에게는 연봉 계약을 하지 않는 현재 관행은 불법 베팅 사이트를 운영하는 브로커들의 검은 유혹을 뿌리치기 어려운 현실에 내놓은 것이나 다름 없다. 협회와 게임단은 뒤늦게 수사 기관을 통해 불법 베팅 사이트와 관련자들을 찾으려 나섰지만 한 발 늦었다는 지적은 면하기 어렵다. | ||
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JadeFist
United States1225 Posts
On April 12 2010 00:56 StRyKeR wrote: I was thinking the exact same thing! Back then, people were saying that Savior was reminiscing his good old days when winning wasn't a rare occurrence, and that's why he was wistfully sitting around after winning Proleague. Now, it could be sooo many other things. Maybe he bet against himself super big but had to win for the team and was pissed he missed out on big money. Or maybe he actually enjoyed winning for his team and legitimately felt happy, but knew deep inside that he had thrown games and can never return as a true player. This news is so sad lol Oh, wow. He probably saw how happy his teammates were, and then felt horrible for cheating them so many times before...and knew he could never redeem himself. | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On April 12 2010 15:11 Luddite wrote: In a way, this kinda means savior was even better than anyone thought. Because not only was he dominating, he was dominating despite deliberately losing some times. His true win rate should have been even higher than it was. This is the solace that I find here. | ||
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Kwanroller
Afghanistan459 Posts
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ShaperofDreams
Canada2492 Posts
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ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On April 12 2010 16:12 Kwanroller wrote: What I really want to know is whether or not Forgg is involved with this. I have no idea how you can somehow become the best terran in the world for around a month then vanish into thin air. fell down some stairs didn't he? | ||
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maareek
United States2042 Posts
I definitely wasn't expecting this, but I'm not remotely surprised. I don't think this is going to be as bad for professional BW as most of you seem to think, though, unless the Korean public is way different than the American public when it comes to things like this. Americans like drama, and they like bullshit and this story has plenty of both. It's the kind of thing were people would tell everybody they know "I can't belive that shit! I'm never watching that shit again!" and then go home and watch every bit of news about it to see just what happens and who gets what and then watch every damn game that airs to see how the team does without 'em and how heartbroken they are. It's like reality TV, except with actual reality! I know people would eat that kind of stuff up here, and I imagine a good betrayal story where you can watch in so intently on the aftermath as can be done here would be a good sell anywhere. e-Sports may have to undergo a while of being looked at as professional wrestling via computers, but I'd be surprised if this represents any major threat to its long-term survival. | ||
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pheus
Australia161 Posts
On April 12 2010 16:51 maareek wrote: I guess it doesn't say especially good things about me that the part I find most interesting here is seeing just how this situation is handled in Korea compared to how I'd expect it to be handled - assuming a similar level of fame for the players/popular interest in the game - in the US. Here, I'd expect Savior to be put in jail, having been given a seemingly harsh sentence (which would shortly thereafter be commuted to a fairly trivial one) and receive a lifetime/indeterminate length ban for progaming. The others would likely be suspended but not banned, and fined but not incarcerated. I definitely wasn't expecting this, but I'm not remotely surprised. I don't think this is going to be as bad for professional BW as most of you seem to think, though, unless the Korean public is way different than the American public when it comes to things like this. Americans like drama, and they like bullshit and this story has plenty of both. It's the kind of thing were people would tell everybody they know "I can't belive that shit! I'm never watching that shit again!" and then go home and watch every bit of news about it to see just what happens and who gets what and then watch every damn game that airs to see how the team does without 'em and how heartbroken they are. It's like reality TV, except with actual reality! I know people would eat that kind of stuff up here, and I imagine a good betrayal story where you can watch in so intently on the aftermath as can be done here would be a good sell anywhere. e-Sports may have to undergo a while of being looked at as professional wrestling via computers, but I'd be surprised if this represents any major threat to its long-term survival. I don't know anything about korea's legal system but I'm wondering, Have they done anything illegal? If betting is illegal in korea why would there be a law against match fixing? maybe as an accessory to the betting process? I can only think of two things - breach of their contract with the pro teams: would their contracts include a cause saying the pro gamers must try to win all their games, or gambling for the ones that bet on themselves. Apart from that it seems to me like this is a situation more similar to cheating on a girlfriend - a piece of shit dick ass move, but not illegal. | ||
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PH
United States6173 Posts
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bias-
United States410 Posts
How much of my time have I spent unknowingly watching someone make a fool out of me? These people are sitting in that booth wasting a lot of time. My time watching their match, their time practicing, and their teams time in Proleague. Out of all the questions below, my biggest concern is how uncertain I feel. All the greatest "comebacks" I have to now question. All the huge "slip-ups" after huge leads (think Modesty for STX in playoffs). If I hear of any player throwing late-round OSL or MSL matches or even finals, everything is fair game for questioning. This is going to get really ugly. + Show Spoiler + - How do you feel if you are a player/coach and you have found out your teammate/s have been throwing proleague matches? This is an insult to you, the team, the staff, and most importantly the corporate Sponsor which you represent. The player in question is in all likelihood banned from progaming and disgraced. Where do you go from here? Is there a statement put out by KeSPA, the team as a whole? Where does the healing start? + Show Spoiler + - How badly will this hurt the possibility of e-Sports becoming a legitimate sport in the world? - How far back in our minds do we have to analyze our favorite playoff matches, finals, semi-finals, proleague matches, the works to think if it was rigged? + Show Spoiler + - Do we at TL still hate KeSPA's rigidity after something like this occurs? Are they more needed? Or more in need of elimination for ineptitude? | ||
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NiGoL
1868 Posts
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theron[wdt]
United States395 Posts
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
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QuothTheRaven
United States5524 Posts
On April 11 2010 22:45 Hyde wrote: My thoughts exactly :/ Also does anyone know what music he was playing in the background? The background music was: Armin Van Buuren - Love You More | ||
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Robinsa
Japan1333 Posts
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lokiM
United States3407 Posts
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
bring back all the old school gosus!!! | ||
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
On April 12 2010 19:05 lokiM wrote: until there's more clear evidence all of this is still bullshit to me http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=119403 | ||
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lokiM
United States3407 Posts
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Hyperionnn
Turkey4968 Posts
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Denotate
Canada294 Posts
On April 12 2010 19:30 lokiM wrote: rumors get blown out of proportion, ESPECIALLY in korea, you know how korean scandals go.. that could just be some dumbass reporter making false claims insight of the rumor coming from all those other sites. Although I'm not entirely blowing it off, i want to see the smoking gun before i can accept it Yeah! Pics, or it didn't happen. | ||
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Cyrox
Sweden147 Posts
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We Are Here
Australia1810 Posts
On April 12 2010 20:54 Cyrox wrote: no way, bw's best gamer is not a cheater. i will never acknowledge that. and if his a not cheater, then he clearly isnt the best ever ;pWell it just proves my theory that Savior hasent REALLY lost an entire game ever. He just threw them and then did some acting. SAVIOR IS THE BEST BW GAMER FOR ETERNITY! | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
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n3m0
Portugal247 Posts
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
On April 12 2010 21:23 Zzoram wrote: i wonder if they would actually kick out someone like Bisu if he was proven to be throwing games for money yes they would. | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
On April 12 2010 07:35 Prof. Protoss wrote: Are you german or why do you use "Bundesliga" as an example? That was the most recent example of fixing matches in a highly respected sports competition I remembered. | ||
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Amnesia
United States3818 Posts
On April 12 2010 21:21 n3m0 wrote: that explains how jaedong lost to baby a few months ago xd You mean like three weeks ago? And there's no proof that JD is part of this although it is definitely possible. Stop justifying a progamer's loss to this scandal thing. Seriously. | ||
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ZenDeX
Philippines2916 Posts
On April 12 2010 22:12 Amnesia wrote: You mean like three weeks ago? And there's no proof that JD is part of this although it is definitely possible. Stop justifying a progamer's loss to this scandal thing. Seriously. I thought it's because JD's sick or something. | ||
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Prof. Protoss
Germany744 Posts
On April 12 2010 21:39 niteReloaded wrote: That was the most recent example of fixing matches in a highly respected sports competition I remembered. ah ok...interesting to see what the world knows about that, being a german myself | ||
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Dental Floss
United States1015 Posts
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Amnesia
United States3818 Posts
On April 12 2010 22:44 Dental Floss wrote: Is this why proleague doesn't announce line ups now? Yeah, most likely. | ||
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ondik
Czech Republic2908 Posts
On April 12 2010 14:49 Frost wrote: All the links combined summary: The teams could be blamed partially for paying A team members their salaries on time while neglecting the B team members and the practice members. It is understandable that these neglected members of the teams would accept such offers from betting sites out of desparation. Stop this. THEY made the choice and knew that you get nice salary in progaming only if you are among few % of the best players. You aren't good enough to get into A-team? That's only your fault, move on. | ||
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On April 12 2010 19:30 lokiM wrote: rumors get blown out of proportion, ESPECIALLY in korea, you know how korean scandals go.. that could just be some dumbass reporter making false claims insight of the rumor coming from all those other sites. Although I'm not entirely blowing it off, i want to see the smoking gun before i can accept it lol yeah korean authorites are investigating BUT NOTHINGS GOING ON DON'T WORRY. JUST LOTS OF FALSE CLAIMS. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
On April 12 2010 20:54 Cyrox wrote: Well it just proves my theory that Savior hasent REALLY lost an entire game ever. He just threw them and then did some acting. SAVIOR IS THE BEST BW GAMER FOR ETERNITY! Savior is the biggest looser ever to grace the progaming scene. I'm sorry but his actions make him a total failure at life | ||
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lokiM
United States3407 Posts
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Draconizard
628 Posts
On April 13 2010 01:49 lokiM wrote: your mom has a looser pussy ...Really? Even for the blogs, one would expect a slightly higher standard of quality. Savior's comment about "destroying everyone" is rather ironic given this development. His actions, along with those of others like him, could very well destroy Korean SC progaming as a whole. | ||
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lokiM
United States3407 Posts
On April 13 2010 00:39 fusionsdf wrote: lol yeah korean authorites are investigating BUT NOTHINGS GOING ON DON'T WORRY. JUST LOTS OF FALSE CLAIMS. rofl, did you even read my post? this doesn't respond to anything that I've said | ||
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sl
Canada239 Posts
On April 13 2010 01:55 lokiM wrote: rofl, did you even read my post? this doesn't respond to anything that I've said Actually, he did. | ||
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lone_hydra
Canada1460 Posts
On April 12 2010 21:21 n3m0 wrote: that explains how jaedong lost to baby a few months ago xd If you are a true Jaedong fan, you will hope to god, that he lost because he was outplayed, and not because he took a bribe. | ||
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lokiM
United States3407 Posts
I think I worded it wrong, what I meant was it doesn't really saying anything about my comment.. who gives a fuck if the corrupted korean police(this was even stated by rekrul) are investigating, similar situations happen like this all the time, and just because the police are looking into it doesn't mean that it's the 'smoking gun' to these illegal acts | ||
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diehilde
Germany1596 Posts
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Asjo
Denmark664 Posts
On April 12 2010 10:51 xbarisg wrote: id guess winners league matches are less likely to be rigged because theres no way for betting sites to know what the matchups are going to be beforehand. the only betting opportunities would be the first set and who wins the series, so savior would have to be betting against cj to have any incentive to lose. maybe he just doesnt care whether he wins or loses Good point. I don't know if these illegal betting sites allow for betting on hypothetical match-ups, but you are probably right. My point was that even though I thought this for me as a viewer would be neglectible, it still gave me a hard time when watching. A lot of the meta-talk also becomes polluted, and I might have to engage in the argument that Savior's slump was produced from this myself, which diverts attention from the many wonderful things in the games. Hopefully, we will forget this soon, and carry on in life as usual | ||
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Aerox
Malaysia1213 Posts
On April 13 2010 03:16 diehilde wrote: honestly it may sound weird, but rek gained a toooon of respect in my book. He kinda comes of as an arrogant douche in most of his posts, but I can really feel he is a somewhat morally respectable person deep inside from this video. If thats a trend, he should be really nice to meet in person ^^ The ones who doubted are obviously new people who hasn't known him or to this site. Rekrul just brought things early to the table. The "newbies" just needed to be patient and not demand proof. Just needed to wait. I wish we can mark these people by going through these two threads so I can skip their pointless postings/arguments while browsing. These people are like trying to show people they're making a new discovery with math but end up with showing us the same shit we already know eg. 1 + 1 = 2 again. | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
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zzangbbangddong
Antigua/Barbuda21 Posts
On April 13 2010 03:16 diehilde wrote: honestly it may sound weird, but rek gained a toooon of respect in my book. He kinda comes of as an arrogant douche in most of his posts, but I can really feel he is a somewhat morally respectable person deep inside from this video. If thats a trend, he should be really nice to meet in person ^^ Same here, I liked his speech about "climbing the fucking mountain", | ||
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ondik
Czech Republic2908 Posts
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Swarmy
Canada70 Posts
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On April 13 2010 02:38 lokiM wrote: I think I worded it wrong, what I meant was it doesn't really saying anything about my comment.. who gives a fuck if the corrupted korean police(this was even stated by rekrul) are investigating, similar situations happen like this all the time, and just because the police are looking into it doesn't mean that it's the 'smoking gun' to these illegal acts you obviously don't follow the korean websites. Trust me, the naver's, fomos, etc. will NOT post that kind of stuff on a whim. | ||
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Prof. Protoss
Germany744 Posts
On April 13 2010 04:52 Aerox wrote: The ones who doubted are obviously new people who hasn't known him or to this site. Rekrul just brought things early to the table. The "newbies" just needed to be patient and not demand proof. Just needed to wait. I wish we can mark these people by going through these two threads so I can skip their pointless postings/arguments while browsing. These people are like trying to show people they're making a new discovery with math but end up with showing us the same shit we already know eg. 1 + 1 = 2 again. I was one of them, mark me. What did Rekrul do? He gave rumors we gathered by korean Fansites one day afterwards. What an accomplishment! I gotta admit I liked the way he did it though. Getting drunk and brag, that's entertainment. David Hasselhoff style. But we shouldn't thank him too much. Plus, I can't emphasize this enough: We have to be careful not to witchhunt. Rumors =/= Facts. | ||
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Kyuukyuu
Canada6263 Posts
>___________< | ||
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WaveMotion
United States147 Posts
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Anderuth
China1 Post
cuz I am from China?? | ||
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
I'd like to see some. I actually remember a game from long time ago (before all this shit came to light) about 2 players they were playing so bad versus each other and someone joked that they were both trying to throw the game. (might have involved stork and been a pvp ?) | ||
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JadeFist
United States1225 Posts
On April 13 2010 11:50 CharlieMurphy wrote: Has anyone gone back and rounded up a bunch of vods where players lost game suspiciously? I'd like to see some. I actually remember a game from long time ago (before all this shit came to light) about 2 players they were playing so bad versus each other and someone joked that they were both trying to throw the game. (might have involved stork and been a pvp ?) Some people already mentioned that. I think it was in WCG and Stork tried to lose so he could avoid Hwasin. It didn't involve betting, it was just player dodging. | ||
CaucasianAsian
Korea (South)11575 Posts
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fusionsdf
Canada15390 Posts
On April 13 2010 11:50 CharlieMurphy wrote: Has anyone gone back and rounded up a bunch of vods where players lost game suspiciously? I'd like to see some. I actually remember a game from long time ago (before all this shit came to light) about 2 players they were playing so bad versus each other and someone joked that they were both trying to throw the game. (might have involved stork and been a pvp ?) When it comes to savior, potentially his skins match vs flash (went 3-0, then lost the next 4), I mean its flash. but it was 2008, so its not inconceivable. Get the money from winning the three games, win more money from throwing the last 4. Again, it vs flash, so it could be legit. That game vs FBH on RH3 where he did that nooby attack. His games in the prelims: His games vs Bisu even (Yes I mean the MSL finals). Its basically impossible to guess savior's strength since 2007-2008. If he made 2mil (assume 5k a game), thats at least 40 games. Considering hes only played ~150 games since 2008, thats at least ~25% of his games thrown. Savior games that should be considered upsets: 2009: Bubble (Fall OSL prelims) Bogus (Spring OSL prelims) Young (PL) 2008: ggaemo (Winter OSL prelims) Nada 0-2 (clubday MSL) Pusan (Fall OSL prelims) GOMTV Invitational matches 2007: Ruby (PL) Mind??(MSL) <- can't remember those games well, and mind was awesome at the time... (more vs P than Z) Hwasin??(WCG) <- Hwasin vs Z, but this is savior at what should be near peak. FBH (MSL) <- from memory, there were several times savior could have won (game 3 particularly I think) Boxer (PL) iloveoov/calm (superfight) You have to remember.... that superfight that savior ridiculously dominated? the one where he basically carried CJ on his back and single handedly killed all the other teams? That was Jan 2007. So I was much more willing to include bigger names for the early part of that year. And I left all the Bisu/FBH games off because, well..... CONSPIRACY THEORY ALERT:+ Show Spoiler + I still think his sudden slump after his games vs bisu/FBH are suspicious. But maybe bisu would win anyways. Who knows. Would be a hell of a start if the first match he threw was MSL finals though lol. Actual vods I'm suspicious of (extreeeemely hard to tell. Claim this is biased/subjective and you'll probably be right. But these are my guesses) http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/10552_firebathero_vs_sAviOr http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/10694_FrOzen_vs_sAviOr GOM S2 (Games 2&3 vs free) http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/games/8517_Chalrenge_vs_sAviOr < this game was fucking pathetic. I'm just going from memory. Its bad enough I never want to watch it again. | ||
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broz0rs
United States2294 Posts
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nas
Canada33 Posts
On April 13 2010 13:02 fusionsdf wrote: His games vsBisu even (Yes I mean the MSL finals). Its basically impossible to guess sAviOr's strength since 2007-2008. If he made 2mil (assume 5k a game), thats at least 40 games. People who say he wouldn't throw the final against  Bisu are naive (I'm not saying he did for sure but it would be entirely possible). He would get a huge payout betting on a 0-3 result, which he could 100% guarantee. I wouldn't be surprised if he could have made six figures in USD on that alone. Bisu turned out to be strong against Zerg but people didn't know that at the time of the series. Savior never changed his strategy against Bisu, even though he was getting owned by the build.Also, it's not very profitable to get lazy and play like shit. The best is to play well, look very strong and promising and then lose games that should be easy wins.  Luxury looks very suspicious for this reason. BeSt and  UpMaGiC as well. | ||
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LuckyFool
United States9015 Posts
On April 13 2010 12:48 CaucasianAsian wrote: read page 2 nooblet.what song was playing in the background? | ||
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Yurebis
United States1452 Posts
publicize it more, then betting demand goes down as people dont know if a match is being thrown or not then theres less to be gained by throwing then theres more to be gained by playing straight no need to burn anyone just break the illusion of safe gambling | ||
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The_Australian
Australia458 Posts
Because he was getting a shitload of money... Savior | ||
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22251 Posts
![[image loading]](http://z.about.com/d/shoes/1/0/M/L/teva_sandals.jpg) | ||
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Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
dont understand them things | ||
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zOula...
United States898 Posts
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CharlieMurphy
United States22895 Posts
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22251 Posts
On April 13 2010 15:08 Rekrul wrote: even though i live in cali i never wear sandals dont understand them things Oh I absolutely fucking hate those things, it's just what I kept seeing every time I read the title -_- | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22251 Posts
On April 13 2010 15:27 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: and here I was thinking it was referring to how this entire story keeps flip-flopping. ![[image loading]](http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/8615/badumchshlu3.jpg) | ||
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Zoler
Sweden6339 Posts
On April 13 2010 15:27 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote: and here I was thinking it was referring to how this entire story keeps flip-flopping. lol | ||
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mel_ee
2448 Posts
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VampireLady
Netherlands283 Posts
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29 fps
United States5724 Posts
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tonight
United States11130 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33326 Posts
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