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KristianJS
2107 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:29 Hot_Bid wrote: Longinus II ZvT Savior - 8-1 (88.9%) Other Zs - 61-101 (36.9%) Reverse Temple ZvT Savior - 6-1 (85.7%) Other Zs - 21-47 (32.9%) Hahaha, that's just sick. | ||
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drlame
Sweden574 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:29 NurseArial wrote: there would be no modern zerg why are people constantly talking down the old greats. I keep seeing "flash was so much better than nada lol" "jaedong > savior" "bisu > nal_ra" etc. Well, of course new players are better. Discussions about players should be kept relative to their era : / It's just ridiculous to compare a top player from now to a top player from 2006. NaDa vs sAviOr finals looks like two b-teamers playing, at least mechanically. This ^, also as many have already pointed out savior played on maps that highly favored the other races and dominated on them. On a side note, savior did all this domination when zerg was gimped compared to T and P. Jaedong didnt invent any strats, he got them served to him on a silver platter by July, savior and others, and then just deployed them with great skill. Sure this defines a _good_ player, but not a bonjwa. | ||
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Bifur
Russian Federation1208 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:33 theramstoss wrote: rofl you don't even know what bonjwa means. It means complete dominance in your era. The existence of flash makes jaedong not bonjwa and vice versa. Ok, but what does 'complete dominance' means? Statistics say that Savior wasn't as dominant as Jaedong, he was losing more games and winning less games. | ||
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Bifur
Russian Federation1208 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:21 Roffles wrote: RebirthOfLegend forgot Longinus. What a fucking gay map for zergs. Yeah, but there is also Katrina, which is not less fucking gay for zergs and was the most comfortable map for Jaedong ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/maps/162_Katrina.jpg) | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17732 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:34 Bifur wrote: Katrina (vsT + vsP): Jaedong - 8-2 Other Zs - 116-162 and he lost to flash both times on it | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:32 Sentenal wrote: Agree Also, Savior's dominance relative to his peers was much greater then Jaedong's "dominance" relative to his (since he was never "dominate" compared to Bisu and Flash). Jaedong has as many starleague golds as those two combined, and is a combined 4-0 against those two in bo5s. | ||
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whathappened
United States213 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:40 Bifur wrote: Yeah, but there is also Katrina, which is not less fucking gay for zergs and was the most comfortable map for Jaedong What about Kwanro on Outsider? He was pretty good at that map.. while Jaedong wasn't. What about Effort on Heartbreak Ridge? He was pretty good at that map.. while Jaedong wasn't. What about Firefist on Heartbreak Ridge? 7-0, Jaedong: 9-11. Bonjwa indeed. Edit: Bonjwas should be able to win on any map, if their race can win on it.. then they should have no problems. Even if its racially imbalanced against them-- they should still be competitive on it. | ||
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Bifur
Russian Federation1208 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:44 whathappened wrote: What about Kwanro on Outsider? He was pretty good at that map.. while Jaedong wasn't. What about Effort on Heartbreak Ridge? He was pretty good at that map.. while Jaedong wasn't. What about Firefist on Heartbreak Ridge? 7-0, Jaedong: 9-11. Bonjwa indeed. Edit: Bonjwas should be able to win on any map, if their race can win on it.. then they should have no problems. Even if its racially imbalanced against them-- they should still be competitive on it. Andromeda: Savior - 4-9 July - 10-0 | ||
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Late
Latvia418 Posts
Really awesome read about both  sAviOr and Jaedong! | ||
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Ilikestarcraft
Korea (South)17732 Posts
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Bifur
Russian Federation1208 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:50 Ilikestarcraft wrote: No one here is discrediting jaedong. He is a great player and with flash have been in a class of their own for a while. But to compare them to the old greats like savior and iloveoov and say they are greater is short sighted because these two players are the ones who laid the path for these 2 players to become where they are now. I love Savior and have no intention to discredit him, but if we use your logic, then July is greater than Savior, and Yellow is greater than July and Savior. | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:53 Bifur wrote: I love Savior and have no intention to discredit him, but if we use your logic, then July is greater than Savior, and Yellow is greater than July and Savior. freemura #1 forever | ||
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Megalisk
United States6095 Posts
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Zanno
United States1484 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:53 Bifur wrote: i'm fine with thatI love Savior and have no intention to discredit him, but if we use your logic, then July is greater than Savior, and Yellow is greater than July and Savior. | ||
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NeoOmega
United States495 Posts
8-6-2005 Date of Savior's Lasts Medal 3-3-2007 Difference 14 months 25 days 4 Golds 2 Silvers Date of Jaedong's First Medal 12-22-2007 Date of Jaedong's Last Medal 1-23-2010 Difference 25 months 1 day 5 Golds 1 Silver Jaedong is a very streaky player. Savior was truly dominant. | ||
Harem
United States11393 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:26 NurseArial wrote: Also, sAviOr revolutionized all zerg matchups, Savior never "revolutionized" zvz, doctor And it's pretty easy to argue for what JD has done for zvp but of course you either just glossed over/ conveniently forget/never noticed/all of the above. They've both done a lot for the zerg race and trying to be like hurrrrr x >> y or y >> x is just silly. | ||
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Bifur
Russian Federation1208 Posts
On April 04 2010 06:59 NeoOmega wrote: Date of Savior's First Medal 8-6-2005 Date of Savior's Lasts Medal 3-3-2007 Difference 14 months 25 days 4 Golds 2 Silvers Date of Jaedong's First Medal 12-22-2007 Date of Jaedong's Last Medal 1-23-2010 Difference 25 months 1 day 5 Golds 1 Silver Jaedong is a very streaky player. Savior was truly dominant. This is also a very strong argument. I agree, that Savior >>> Jaedong in this meaning | ||
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ShaLLoW[baY]
Canada12499 Posts
On April 04 2010 07:01 Bifur wrote: This is also a very strong argument. I agree, that Savior >>> Jaedong in this meaning Jaedong is a better player. Not even I will argue this, and anyone on these forums for a good length of time knows that this means a good deal. sAviOr is the Bonjwa because of his dominance. sAviOr brought fear like Jaedong never did. | ||
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Zona
40426 Posts
As well, Savior also dominated in an era where no other players could be compared to him in strength. Right now no one can say that about Jaedong, when Flash is around. | ||
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Swarmy
Canada70 Posts
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